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Luke knew BC was not right - He nearly withdrew her.
He knew something was not right with her at that stage and he was crap1n9 himself. Look at his face in the stalls (barrier).She was wrong/was not acting on the ground/track when she went down. He was under instructions to look after her. He nearly withdrew her but think of the uproar that would have caused.
Look how shifty he was in the post race interview, He was hiding something and took the blame himself. All in all he did well to get her to win and back in one piece. As instructed he was looking after her. She was never really travelling and she looked like a chaser about to be pulled up in the last 25 yards. When Moody came to greet them after the race Luke hugged Moody and whispered in his ear that she was not right, but keep it quiet, so we can decide what to do when all of the hoohar has died down.
The Aussies are very patriotic and almost as insecure. They Aussie media bang on about Aussie/Aussie/Aussie, look how great we are every second of the day. Every advert on TV proclaims Australian grown/Australia's best/The worlds greatest. Every news item discusses Australia’s place in the world (generally the best of course) and what the rest of the world's opinion of them is to a point of brainwashing obsession. This same media hype was on BC. They were shouting;
"She's the best horse in the world. The best that ever ran" (incorrect of course on official ratings, but the average Aussie does not to know that...Drip, drip drip Aussie propaganda)
"Frankel? - overrated - Wait till they see our horse"
"The poms will not see which way she went"
She was representing Australia and nothing but a win would do. The media do not really care about the animal itself in the way that the BC team do, only the fact that she is representing Aussie and she must not fail. The team were under media pressure from back home.
Well done Luke and the team but relax, breathe a sigh of relief and please retire her now.
From a whinging expat Pomme in Aussie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFlROmOd-b0&feature=related
He knew something was not right with her at that stage and he was crap1n9 himself. Look at his face in the stalls (barrier).She was wrong/was not acting on the ground/track when she went down. He was under instructions to look after her. He nearly withdrew her but think of the uproar that would have caused.
Look how shifty he was in the post race interview, He was hiding something and took the blame himself. All in all he did well to get her to win and back in one piece. As instructed he was looking after her. She was never really travelling and she looked like a chaser about to be pulled up in the last 25 yards. When Moody came to greet them after the race Luke hugged Moody and whispered in his ear that she was not right, but keep it quiet, so we can decide what to do when all of the hoohar has died down.
The Aussies are very patriotic and almost as insecure. They Aussie media bang on about Aussie/Aussie/Aussie, look how great we are every second of the day. Every advert on TV proclaims Australian grown/Australia's best/The worlds greatest. Every news item discusses Australia’s place in the world (generally the best of course) and what the rest of the world's opinion of them is to a point of brainwashing obsession. This same media hype was on BC. They were shouting;
"She's the best horse in the world. The best that ever ran" (incorrect of course on official ratings, but the average Aussie does not to know that...Drip, drip drip Aussie propaganda)
"Frankel? - overrated - Wait till they see our horse"
"The poms will not see which way she went"
She was representing Australia and nothing but a win would do. The media do not really care about the animal itself in the way that the BC team do, only the fact that she is representing Aussie and she must not fail. The team were under media pressure from back home.
Well done Luke and the team but relax, breathe a sigh of relief and please retire her now.
From a whinging expat Pomme in Aussie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFlROmOd-b0&feature=related
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it's a tough thing to do, represent australia
her win was unsatisfactory
her win was unsatisfactory
I thought exactly the same and posted it , very shifty and never asked the horse a thing in the race
hope its okay
hope its okay
wow skysports news have just called it her greatest ever win.
Jockey was in shock. He wasn't being shifty.
It was combo of relief that the race, in another country, with different ground, was over. But the shock outweighed the the relief.
He said in the post interview on BBC (sorry, deleted it a few minutes ago otherwise would quote) that he was surprised at how much the ground had taken out of BC and thought he had had enough.
Watching the tape, he saw Dettori and once he had pulled away, combined with feeling the horse had "had enough", he eased up thinking he could coast ahead of Dettori. He hadn't seen the French.
His mistake was not looking at his left flank which almost cost him the race.
This is after watching it half a dozen times. What was impressive was when he realized what was happening, a shake of the reigns and the horse gave the 'extra nudge' that was needed.
It won the race and, chances are on UK soil, will win again.
It was combo of relief that the race, in another country, with different ground, was over. But the shock outweighed the the relief.
He said in the post interview on BBC (sorry, deleted it a few minutes ago otherwise would quote) that he was surprised at how much the ground had taken out of BC and thought he had had enough.
Watching the tape, he saw Dettori and once he had pulled away, combined with feeling the horse had "had enough", he eased up thinking he could coast ahead of Dettori. He hadn't seen the French.
His mistake was not looking at his left flank which almost cost him the race.
This is after watching it half a dozen times. What was impressive was when he realized what was happening, a shake of the reigns and the horse gave the 'extra nudge' that was needed.
It won the race and, chances are on UK soil, will win again.
Jun 24, 2012 -- 2:28AM, hello :-) wrote:
I thought exactly the same and posted it , very shifty and never asked the horse a thing in the race hope its okay
So how did he move the horse past Dettori and pull from the pack? Dettori wasn't going backwards?
Fully agree with you shapeshifter, I actually think that it was a blessing that he did not look around, feel that in the time it took to look around and then look back again and get her going again it would have cost him the race, whereas he heard/felt or saw them coming outta the corner of his eye and got her back going instantly.
Why was he in shock , surley he has been in tight finishes before
Im not knocking BC , class got her home but in the post race interview he was looking for assurance from moody , more than once and it looked like he had done something wrong , should the horse have raced ?
Given the retiral talk all isnt as it should be , but i prey the horse is well
Im not knocking BC , class got her home but in the post race interview he was looking for assurance from moody , more than once and it looked like he had done something wrong , should the horse have raced ?
Given the retiral talk all isnt as it should be , but i prey the horse is well
how was that her greatest ever win hello, please explain?
the time was sheet.
and the horse in 3rd was rated 110.
the time was sheet.
and the horse in 3rd was rated 110.
to win a group one when underperforming could be classed as that could it not
Sometimes think she would have got more credit if she ran midfield...
Tough gritty wins (when obviously having an off day) are not apprieciated.
Tough gritty wins (when obviously having an off day) are not apprieciated.
Tough gritty wins (when obviously having an off day) are not apprieciated.
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
If the horse was not right due to travelling etc all credit to her to get another win and good luck to her in the future.
all the shiftiness going on during the interviews, was the trainer and jockey passing a ciggy to each other, 
"I am certain that the jockey detected all was not right with BC and that is why he was exceptionately easy on her, especially in the closing yards. Even so, BC proved her class by picking up from what was almost a standing start to repel the closers. I also feel that the psychology of his interview after the race was definitely not of the "beat myself up" type. He saw his first duty to be the defence of the horse's performance by assuming that responsibility to be his own. The release by the stable that all was not right with the horse justifies this stance and makes the victory even more worthwhile."
boosup never read so much shoite in all my life,sprinters dont go from flat out sprinting to stopping and starting again all in 200 yds,why do you think they take 2 to 3 furlongs to pull up,absolute shoite,bc speed probably changed very little in the last furlong despite all what was going on , on top of her from the jockey
"The excuse by the stable that all was not right with the horse justifies this stance and makes the victory even more worthwhile."
Ahhh that's better..
Ahhh that's better..
As I posted, the jock knew all was not right half in; and now stand connections etc; why is that so hard to believe?
BC proved her class by picking up from what was almost a standing start to repel the closers.
Because he should have said that post-race, he didn't, he blamed the course-ground etc..
It seemed more that he was blaming himself for his appreciation and understanding of the course and not the course or ground itself.
Eh ? Same thing is it not ?
The fact is he did not say what you implied..
The fact is he did not say what you implied..
Er, no, it's not the same thing at all; one is subjective, the other objective.
They have just announced on the news over here in Oz that she has torn muscles. Still lead national news item. One channel calling the win "expcetional"
Interestingly she is now being called the best “filly in the world”. Downgraded from the much hyped “best horse in the word” pre Ascot. Suspect the penny has now dropped.
Jun 24, 2012 -- 12:18PM, os wrote:
Interestingly she is now being called the best “filly in the world”. Downgraded from the much hyped “best horse in the word” pre Ascot. Suspect the penny has now dropped.
She's made news in hundreds of publications, some say best horse in the world, some say best mare. It all depends on the author...
Hope she will be ok, and well done to Nolen for looking after her,
very brave horse when she clearly wasn't at her best
and still gave that extra nudge to hold on and win.
very brave horse when she clearly wasn't at her best
and still gave that extra nudge to hold on and win.
She's a sprinter, pure and simple. And should never have been described as the best hoss at anything, but sprinting..
http://www.news.com.au/national/black-caviar-hangs-on-to-win/story-fn7mjqus-1226406577768
"You've only got to win by a quarter of an inch - we got the job done," Moody said. "We never expect dominance, we never ask her for dominance. We are extremely proud of her. I'm an extremely proud Aussie.
"There's no doubt you've seen her at her lowest ebb. I'm just disappointed for your public that she didn't show how great a filly she is."
"You've only got to win by a quarter of an inch - we got the job done," Moody said. "We never expect dominance, we never ask her for dominance. We are extremely proud of her. I'm an extremely proud Aussie.
"There's no doubt you've seen her at her lowest ebb. I'm just disappointed for your public that she didn't show how great a filly she is."
Do get it right for once g2d. Implications and assumptions are not even closely related, yet alone the same.
Os,
do you think she will bounce back from this?
I have my doubts, but, then, I was wrong about Kauto Star ( once).
Long term I think I know when horses are fkd, and to me, this race at Ascot was a bit too hard for her.
Personally, I can't see her running again in GB or anywhere in Europe or America.
Who knows?
I'd like to know why the conections looked so sick. At one stage i feared that they and the mare were all gonna take a heart attack.
do you think she will bounce back from this?
I have my doubts, but, then, I was wrong about Kauto Star ( once).
Long term I think I know when horses are fkd, and to me, this race at Ascot was a bit too hard for her.
Personally, I can't see her running again in GB or anywhere in Europe or America.
Who knows?
I'd like to know why the conections looked so sick. At one stage i feared that they and the mare were all gonna take a heart attack.
good--the horse won after jockey eased it down
would of been to depressing if it lost
would of been to depressing if it lost
so thats her excuses ,and the excuses for the aussie horse in the king stand ,as she,s unbeaten in 22 maybe the aussie sprinters just arnt as good as they were say 5 yrs ago
LOL.....what a load of typically ungracious Aussie b0ll0cks.
Nolen knew there was something wrong so much that despite supposedly considering withdrawing her, he instead of dismounting and leading his half cripples mount in after the race and take the weight off of her broken back, he took her for a victory parade down the course and back again.
Maybe doing all of that knowing what he "did" then Nolen should be charged by the RSPCA for animal cruelty.
Especially when Moody has said:
"She's torn some muscles up high behind (hindquarter) and pulled up very tender," trainer Peter Moody said as he prepared to fly out of London.
but we know that's b0ll0cks anyway and when you are spouting any old sh1t to save face then you sometimes forget the finer detail.
The other thing quite telling too is the bit highlighted below:
An examination come daylight by vet Peter Angus and chiropractor Michael Bryant revealed two muscle tears and a haematoma are the battle scars of her 22nd win, her first on foreign soil and by the barest of margins.
Bryant, who has treated Black Caviar throughout her career, said on a scale of 1-5, she had a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroilliac.
No vested interest then eh?
Oh and btw, Henry Cecil has found an excuse for why Frankel only managed to win by 11L......apparently Tom Queally pulled up with a strain in his neck.
Nolen knew there was something wrong so much that despite supposedly considering withdrawing her, he instead of dismounting and leading his half cripples mount in after the race and take the weight off of her broken back, he took her for a victory parade down the course and back again.
Maybe doing all of that knowing what he "did" then Nolen should be charged by the RSPCA for animal cruelty.
Especially when Moody has said:
"She's torn some muscles up high behind (hindquarter) and pulled up very tender," trainer Peter Moody said as he prepared to fly out of London.
but we know that's b0ll0cks anyway and when you are spouting any old sh1t to save face then you sometimes forget the finer detail.
The other thing quite telling too is the bit highlighted below:
An examination come daylight by vet Peter Angus and chiropractor Michael Bryant revealed two muscle tears and a haematoma are the battle scars of her 22nd win, her first on foreign soil and by the barest of margins.
Bryant, who has treated Black Caviar throughout her career, said on a scale of 1-5, she had a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroilliac.
No vested interest then eh?
Oh and btw, Henry Cecil has found an excuse for why Frankel only managed to win by 11L......apparently Tom Queally pulled up with a strain in his neck.
So you're telling me the jockey knew that the so called superstar horse was not right and he still ran her Either Luke Nolan is then an absolute fool or you lot are talking rubbish
Either Luke Nolan is then an absolute fool or you lot are talking rubbish
so what we are dealing with is pure unbriddled ausi arrogance ...they brought over an unfit overweight injured oss to RA.. sounds about right imo 
its reputation frightened off the top english horses aka AP and the derby
sounds about right imo its reputation frightened off the top english horses aka AP and the derby
http://www.guardian.co.uk
Not all of the Australian media accompanying Black Caviar's transcontinental adventure have been impressed at the exclusive picture rights deal signed between the horse's owners and network TVN, which has led to some requests for filming and interviews being turned down. They then enjoyed another less than satisfactory experience when being invited for lunch by Ascot chief executive Charles Barnett on the Friday. "It was a great spread but we were all sat on the same table as these pommie guys, John McCririck and Matt Chapman," said one journalist. "I thought Australians were supposed to have a reputation for talking but these guys didn't shut up. My ears were ringing by the time I left."
Not all of the Australian media accompanying Black Caviar's transcontinental adventure have been impressed at the exclusive picture rights deal signed between the horse's owners and network TVN, which has led to some requests for filming and interviews being turned down. They then enjoyed another less than satisfactory experience when being invited for lunch by Ascot chief executive Charles Barnett on the Friday. "It was a great spread but we were all sat on the same table as these pommie guys, John McCririck and Matt Chapman," said one journalist. "I thought Australians were supposed to have a reputation for talking but these guys didn't shut up. My ears were ringing by the time I left."
THE ONLY CONCLUSION FROM THE RACE IS........NOW WE ALL KNOW THAT SHE WAS BEATING DONKEYS IN AUSTRALIA
It looks more and more King like you have hit it on the button. A lot of hot air.
the funniest part about all of this, is you all absolutely blatantly refuse to believe she could of possibly been injured because let's face facts, if she was injured and she still beat the best on offer.. well..
imagine what would happen if she wasn't injured - that's the part you all have trouble with, you're all going need to come to terms with it, when you come to terms with it then you can move on to better things
imagine what would happen if she wasn't injured - that's the part you all have trouble with, you're all going need to come to terms with it, when you come to terms with it then you can move on to better things
surely italy didnt beat england
couldnt have happen to a greater lot of sore losers
couldnt have happen to a greater lot of sore losers
Jun 25, 2012 -- 12:15AM, kingG111111 wrote:
deacon blues would have beaten caviar on the bridle
Keep telling yourself that, maybe it will sink in.
just heard on the aus racing channel " the blunder from down under " despite being injured has beaten the pommes, the french fries and won the cash
there hurtin real bad ,battered and bruised but they sure are as thick as shanes weave .
apparently skippy is coming out of retirement to have a go at black beauty for 6 tinneys of 4x.
the race will stop a nation .
there hurtin real bad ,battered and bruised but they sure are as thick as shanes weave .
apparently skippy is coming out of retirement to have a go at black beauty for 6 tinneys of 4x.
the race will stop a nation .
educeee
the funniest part about all of this, is you all absolutely blatantly refuse to believe she could of possibly been injured because let's face facts, if she was injured and she still beat the best on offer.. well..
imagine what would happen if she wasn't injured - that's the part you all have trouble with, you're all going need to come to terms with it, when you come to terms with it then you can move on to better things
No, the actual funniest thing is if she was genuinely injured she wouldn't have won the race and that's why some are finding it hard to believe it's true but for the sake of argument, let's just say she was genuinely injured, at what stage did it happen? How do you know it didn't happen after the line as she was pulling up (or maybe when Nolen was taking her on their victory parade lol) and so it had no bearing on the result or performance?
I've read on here people say maybe it might have happened when Nolen eased down on her and then had to get her going again but he only got to extend his arms once when pushing her head again before the line came and that was out of sheer panic and unlikely to have caused an injury and they probably still would have won anyway even if he hadn't but maybe by a nose or short head instead of a head.
megsy
surely italy didnt beat england
couldnt have happen to a greater lot of sore losers
LOL mugsy, you remind me of the little boy who tells everyone that on his school's Sports Day that his Dad is a beast and supper fast and will win the Father's race by miles and then when he barely scraps home and falls over the line in a photo finish, asks the other kids what car their Dad's have because his has a Ferrari, so ner-ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!
So in other words you both lash out in a "yeah but....." kind of way when your way off the mark boasts have made you look like a right pair or d1ckheads.
the funniest part about all of this, is you all absolutely blatantly refuse to believe she could of possibly been injured because let's face facts, if she was injured and she still beat the best on offer.. well..
imagine what would happen if she wasn't injured - that's the part you all have trouble with, you're all going need to come to terms with it, when you come to terms with it then you can move on to better things
No, the actual funniest thing is if she was genuinely injured she wouldn't have won the race and that's why some are finding it hard to believe it's true but for the sake of argument, let's just say she was genuinely injured, at what stage did it happen? How do you know it didn't happen after the line as she was pulling up (or maybe when Nolen was taking her on their victory parade lol) and so it had no bearing on the result or performance?
I've read on here people say maybe it might have happened when Nolen eased down on her and then had to get her going again but he only got to extend his arms once when pushing her head again before the line came and that was out of sheer panic and unlikely to have caused an injury and they probably still would have won anyway even if he hadn't but maybe by a nose or short head instead of a head.
megsy
surely italy didnt beat england
couldnt have happen to a greater lot of sore losers
LOL mugsy, you remind me of the little boy who tells everyone that on his school's Sports Day that his Dad is a beast and supper fast and will win the Father's race by miles and then when he barely scraps home and falls over the line in a photo finish, asks the other kids what car their Dad's have because his has a Ferrari, so ner-ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!
So in other words you both lash out in a "yeah but....." kind of way when your way off the mark boasts have made you look like a right pair or d1ckheads.
smegsy....Italy were far the better team and fully deserved their win
Black Caviar although decent isnt anything special.
You could learn from us poms..its called honesty..something you wouldnt
understand if it kicked you in your stones.
Black Caviar although decent isnt anything special.
You could learn from us poms..its called honesty..something you wouldnt
understand if it kicked you in your stones.
Mr wikipedia (imamazed) visiting the australians ,i thought something smelt, its sunday girls, go have ya fcukin baths
,i thought something smelt, its sunday girls, go have ya fcukin baths
Not quite sure what visiting the Australian's is supposed to mean but it's actually not Sunday anyway mugsy it's Monday (and all day too) but then again I really don't think anyone is in any doubt that you haven't got a fcuking clue what day of the week it is anyway.
this may come as a complete shock to you and it may be beyond all physical realms of possibility in your mind but she has won injured before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bt9gJTLNB0
it happened right at the start and if it wasn't for that horse on her inside, she would of fell
guess that put to bed your "oh she couldn't of been injured she wouldn't of won" theory
please come again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bt9gJTLNB0
it happened right at the start and if it wasn't for that horse on her inside, she would of fell
guess that put to bed your "oh she couldn't of been injured she wouldn't of won" theory
please come again
and before you say anything stupid, I know you will - i'm just trying to get in before you post
the moody camp at that stage in her career didn't need to come out and make excuses for a narrow win, which is why I believe she was injured at Ascot, the 2 wins are very similar.. Nolen really asked her for an effort and she didn't show a hell of a lot (on both occasions)
she showed enough to get it done
the moody camp at that stage in her career didn't need to come out and make excuses for a narrow win, which is why I believe she was injured at Ascot, the 2 wins are very similar.. Nolen really asked her for an effort and she didn't show a hell of a lot (on both occasions)
she showed enough to get it done
As you yourself said, she came out of the stalls awkwardly for that 4th win but there's a big difference between winning a Gr2 race against 3YO Aussie only horses where some will have stepped up in trip later on as they got older, as opposed to winning a Gr1 against all ages from specialist sprinters from all over the world. Isn't it something like the rest of the horses in her 4th race went on to win only 2 more races in their next 45-50 combined?
As I said above though, even if she was injured then nobody can say when it happened and it could have been in her final 1-2 strides, after the line or even during the victory parade when she was ridden back down the course so why are people so convinced it was even a factor?
As I said above though, even if she was injured then nobody can say when it happened and it could have been in her final 1-2 strides, after the line or even during the victory parade when she was ridden back down the course so why are people so convinced it was even a factor?
It could also have been during the first half of the race.
Nobody knows when the freak did it.
Nobody knows when the freak did it.
Alot of ignorant Poms on this thread imo.
"Upset", if you like that description, is temporary.
Ignorance.......takes much longer to pass... if at all
"Upset", if you like that description, is temporary.
Ignorance.......takes much longer to pass... if at all
haven't we finished with all this black caviar debate yet, i thought it was pretty conclusive...she ain't all that!
confirmation wasn't required, Duffy. Thanks anyway 
History will record she came half way round the world and won.
For an old mare with ropey hind parts who was ridden by a plank it was a great performance.
Ther are very few unbeaten horses over more than three seasons 22/0 is world class by any standards.
please, Ranger. No need...it's already confirmed...
Average Mare who should be running round Cheltenham in the middle of march imo
Will someone please lay me some 10s for the Supreme Novices?
Alf Awoody
It could also have been during the first half of the race.
Nobody knows when the freak did it.
Well unlike Society Rock she seemed to come out of the stalls well enough and untroubled, as opposed to leaving them for her 4th win and clearly stumbling.
It could also have been during the first half of the race.
Nobody knows when the freak did it.
Well unlike Society Rock she seemed to come out of the stalls well enough and untroubled, as opposed to leaving them for her 4th win and clearly stumbling.
ignorance is compounded when it is long winded and displayed regularly
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