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Despite masssive annual investment, time and time again the Dubai Arab Sheikhs and their loss making flagship Godolphin operation are playing catch up to the significantly smaller, profit making Ballydoyle band wagon.
No where was this more evident than at Newmarket a month ago when following Camelot's brilliant 2000 Guineas victory, Aidan O'Brien's Homecoming Queen performed a demolition job in the fillies equivalent with the two fancied Godolphin representatives finishing last and second last.
With three out of the four Anglo Irish classics safely in the bag, we move on to Epsom for tomorrows Oaks where O'Brien has six contenders to Godolphins one however,much more defining is The Derby where the British Turf's main event and the most important race in the stud book does not have a single representative wearing those Blue silks and yet once again Ballydoyle are mob handed with five declared runners.
The Godolphin operation must be hanging their heads in shame.
No where was this more evident than at Newmarket a month ago when following Camelot's brilliant 2000 Guineas victory, Aidan O'Brien's Homecoming Queen performed a demolition job in the fillies equivalent with the two fancied Godolphin representatives finishing last and second last.
With three out of the four Anglo Irish classics safely in the bag, we move on to Epsom for tomorrows Oaks where O'Brien has six contenders to Godolphins one however,much more defining is The Derby where the British Turf's main event and the most important race in the stud book does not have a single representative wearing those Blue silks and yet once again Ballydoyle are mob handed with five declared runners.
The Godolphin operation must be hanging their heads in shame.
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I think the Dubai investment is paying off? He is in control of racing in the uk is he not?
Are the horses trained over here in winter or in UAE as the weather would then be the main factor as it was very soft at new market and if horses are trained on fast going all the time they will be at a major disadvantage and horses trained in the wettest country in Europe(Eire)
will be blessed running in a race thats the second wettest in Europe.
will be blessed running in a race thats the second wettest in Europe.
The Godolphin operation has been lucky for me but its fair to say some aspects could do better and perhaps its more a obsession for the sheik than carefully thought out.
However it beats betting on stables that like to bet on their own to lose so long may they thrive.
However it beats betting on stables that like to bet on their own to lose so long may they thrive.
Darleys staff getting layed off.... Rumours that they are bringing in another new trainer to take over one of the Hamilton Road yards.... Things can only get worse....
surprised to see Bin Suroor won Oaks as long ago as 1995...nearly 20 yrs he's been on the scene...jeez.
So yet another one in the eye for the Sheikh as Ballydoyle operation go 3/3 in English classics 2012.
No better than evens to finish the season 5/5 I feel, with Godolphin not even getting one in the frame.
What a pathetic effort with their huge expenditure, 300 in training in Newmarket plus feeder trainers in John Gosden, Mark Johnson plus Monsieurs Fabre and Pantall in France.
No better than evens to finish the season 5/5 I feel, with Godolphin not even getting one in the frame.
What a pathetic effort with their huge expenditure, 300 in training in Newmarket plus feeder trainers in John Gosden, Mark Johnson plus Monsieurs Fabre and Pantall in France.
Yes but he's always got the Princess to home to...............
If you retain the best big race jockey on the planet, and leave him on the sidelines when you have a runner in a big race, you probably deserve all you get, imo...
Wait for them listed races @ Nottingham in the Autumn they have 1 or 2 previous group performers ready to mop up!
indeed - if I bought a woman all those fab horses I know I'd look forward to going home too
even though they seem to barely have a winner, I like them. If only for the fact that, as someone said above, you know 100% that they aren't sending horses out to do less than their best
He needs a Jose Mourinho type trainer to drag him from the gutter.
surely they could poach one of o'briens assistants or something.
I have a feeling that their early success was a result of adopting 'modern' training techniques much earlier than the competition, and chucking lots of money at it. We've reached a threshold at which the diminishing returns per pound spent have got ridiculous.
I simply don't think that shipping horses to the middle east is working either. Too much messing with their circadian rhythms. Shipping them anywhere ain't exactly ideal, but disrupting things to the extent that you expect them to spend 4 months in Dubai and swing straight back into the British spring is entirely unrealistic.
I simply don't think that shipping horses to the middle east is working either. Too much messing with their circadian rhythms. Shipping them anywhere ain't exactly ideal, but disrupting things to the extent that you expect them to spend 4 months in Dubai and swing straight back into the British spring is entirely unrealistic.
Must be disapointing waking up beside the princess and saying darling were down to our last 50billion
Surely the problem is the fact that the whole operation is being run at the absolute whim of someone who knows virtually nothing about training racehorses.
Unfortunately for Godolphin, in an industry where back-slapping and sycophancy are usually the passport to success, there's no one who will ever point out that the Emperor is not actually wearing any clothes...
Unfortunately for Godolphin, in an industry where back-slapping and sycophancy are usually the passport to success, there's no one who will ever point out that the Emperor is not actually wearing any clothes...
Racing has made Magnier a billionaire ,the sheiks have spent the same.Plenty of people have made fortunes of them thats why no one questions them the cash cows of cash cows.
not buying horses bred by coolmore stallions has cost them dear imho. sheik mo has never got over losing dubai millenium
lets face it, they have lost the war against an operation that has considerably less money but whose knowledge of the horse is far greater.An operation that had a plan from day one and knew what they wanted to achieve.I have nothing but admiration for their set up and professionalism and every day that goes by the Makhtoums fall further behind.My only criticism - Ballydoyle need to appoint an excellent PR man or woman.
agreed, arabs too loyal to hangers on and under achievers
loyal to hangers on and underachievers agreed, and boots sir henry into touch, what an almighty mistake.
yeah good point elis-all those great horses sir henry trained for him and the position he now finds himself in.More money than sense.
i forgot that elisjohn,agreed another almighty mistake. khalid abdullah kept the faith
cost henry big time, yes at the time but as i mentioned before sir henry lost the long battle, but he seems to have won the war in the end ,
suppose silly question, but what happened to charles st george and lord de walden horses etc, was there no one to take over when they passed away , assuming both have died.
Ithink the walden horses and stud were sold off after he died.The St georges are still around not as big as before you know those horses starting with bahamian in the name Dandy Nicholls trains a few Bahamian Bounty one of the better ones a few years back.Chales St George died well over 10 years ago.
why does he only only have two wifes thought he would be allowed 4 ?
jeers jasrich, loved the lord howard colours, one of my biggest wins was shavian at r ascot ,
saw him at sandown, sm, looked really sad. whats the point of it all..aint money
As i remember it Sheik Mo got fed up with his trainers telling him how his horses should be campaigned,so he took his ball away.Created Godolphin and had a lot of early success.What has gone wrong,who knows.
I wouldn't bet against them coming back in a big way though.
I went to Sandown last night, there was a big contingent of Goldophin there in the parade ring. Sheikh Mo and all the entourage, Crisford and all the the rest of the hangers on. No joking, they were the most miserable looking bunch of racgoers at the track and the place was mobbed.
Cant help thinking the retention of 3 jocks , two of which are the best young talents is the begining of a new strategy
With over 300 horses and next to nothing for the big races godolphin arent sleeping , i hope there is a resurgence in thier ability to compete because racing needs this competition , or you may end up having 9 runner derbys or something
Leaving what he did to henry aside the man has put so much into uk racing , and worldwide racing he deserves a bit more
Simon get ya finger out
With over 300 horses and next to nothing for the big races godolphin arent sleeping , i hope there is a resurgence in thier ability to compete because racing needs this competition , or you may end up having 9 runner derbys or something
Leaving what he did to henry aside the man has put so much into uk racing , and worldwide racing he deserves a bit more
Simon get ya finger out
20years on and Godolphin have 300 horses ready to run at places like Folkestone and Bath something has gone horribly wrong.The stand off against Coolmore was a monster mistake.
millhouse
If you retain the best big race jockey on the planet, and leave him on the sidelines when you have a runner in a big race, you probably deserve all you get, imo...
But what would be the excuse for about the past decade or more?.....And Dettori's not adverse to the odd bad ride either, hence the ban after last season's Oaks.
elisjohn
suppose silly question, but what happened to charles st george and lord de walden horses etc, was there no one to take over when they passed away , assuming both have died.
That and a few other owner deaths plus other factors like losing the Sheikh's horses, his marriage split(s), drink drive thing and his twin brother's illness were all reasons for his decline.
Triple-Trigger
As i remember it Sheik Mo got fed up with his trainers telling him how his horses should be campaigned,so he took his ball away.Created Godolphin and had a lot of early success.What has gone wrong,who knows.
I suppose these things are open to interpretation and I thought the idea was to experiment in having his top 2YOs from the previous season go and winter in warmer climes over in Dubai so that they could be ahead of their UK based rivals for their classic campaigns. Results were good early on and so he stuck with it but it might just have been a case that that first year his horses would have been successful anyway if they were the best, or he might have scrapped the whole thing and let the original trainers retain the horses the following season if it had turned out to be a disaster. He also pushed his Dubai World Cup dream venture and so later took the older horses over too and then had them all under the care of a few select trainers instead of spread all over.
In all honesty though with the kind of horses all of the Maktoums were having success with from the 1980s onwards with both male and female horses, they should really have had a breeding operation as good as Coolmore's now anyway and maybe even earlier than Coolmore did too.
If you retain the best big race jockey on the planet, and leave him on the sidelines when you have a runner in a big race, you probably deserve all you get, imo...
But what would be the excuse for about the past decade or more?.....And Dettori's not adverse to the odd bad ride either, hence the ban after last season's Oaks.
elisjohn
suppose silly question, but what happened to charles st george and lord de walden horses etc, was there no one to take over when they passed away , assuming both have died.
That and a few other owner deaths plus other factors like losing the Sheikh's horses, his marriage split(s), drink drive thing and his twin brother's illness were all reasons for his decline.
Triple-Trigger
As i remember it Sheik Mo got fed up with his trainers telling him how his horses should be campaigned,so he took his ball away.Created Godolphin and had a lot of early success.What has gone wrong,who knows.
I suppose these things are open to interpretation and I thought the idea was to experiment in having his top 2YOs from the previous season go and winter in warmer climes over in Dubai so that they could be ahead of their UK based rivals for their classic campaigns. Results were good early on and so he stuck with it but it might just have been a case that that first year his horses would have been successful anyway if they were the best, or he might have scrapped the whole thing and let the original trainers retain the horses the following season if it had turned out to be a disaster. He also pushed his Dubai World Cup dream venture and so later took the older horses over too and then had them all under the care of a few select trainers instead of spread all over.
In all honesty though with the kind of horses all of the Maktoums were having success with from the 1980s onwards with both male and female horses, they should really have had a breeding operation as good as Coolmore's now anyway and maybe even earlier than Coolmore did too.
I dont think many mainline trainers would replace their chosen Jockey for Frankie.
Nobody is beating that door down anymore. Why would they? certainly his track record does not suggest he is top dog and I am not overjoyed when I see he is riding my selected as I once was.
The Godolphin operation is the jack of all trades and the master of none but I would be poorer without them.
The Sheik has the first and last word in everything but he who pays the piper calls the tune and he never seems to complain when he gets it wrong.
The money the guy pumps into racing from every angle should be applauded, so may his life be long and his obsession remains.
Nobody is beating that door down anymore. Why would they? certainly his track record does not suggest he is top dog and I am not overjoyed when I see he is riding my selected as I once was.
The Godolphin operation is the jack of all trades and the master of none but I would be poorer without them.
The Sheik has the first and last word in everything but he who pays the piper calls the tune and he never seems to complain when he gets it wrong.
The money the guy pumps into racing from every angle should be applauded, so may his life be long and his obsession remains.
The Sheik has the first and last word in everything
Where did he learn how to train racecourses, imo...
Where did he learn how to train racecourses, imo...
Millhouse.
I think the whole operation would be more successful if he had less say but its his money and its a fact that nothing moves unless he says so.
Both his trainers go out of their way to congratulate him when things go right which says so much.
Ive followed them for years now and when you get to know the scene it really does pay.
Requested at Haydock last night paid 5/2 a place it was by far and away the best bet of the day.
Its also a given that it will win several time this year.
I think the whole operation would be more successful if he had less say but its his money and its a fact that nothing moves unless he says so.
Both his trainers go out of their way to congratulate him when things go right which says so much.
Ive followed them for years now and when you get to know the scene it really does pay.
Requested at Haydock last night paid 5/2 a place it was by far and away the best bet of the day.
Its also a given that it will win several time this year.
Moondan, my point is that if he is making all the decisions at Godolphin, then someone whose only real qualification for training racehorses is having lots of money is probably going to get out thought by other trainers, many of whom have served their apprenticeships working under some of the greatest handlers ever to have lived.
As for his trainers congratulating him, well, they would wouldn't they - just like the fawning industry/media flunkies, no one is prepared to tell a rich and influential man he doesn't actually know that much about a profession it takes decades to master, imho...
As for his trainers congratulating him, well, they would wouldn't they - just like the fawning industry/media flunkies, no one is prepared to tell a rich and influential man he doesn't actually know that much about a profession it takes decades to master, imho...
The widely publicised rift between the Sheikh and Coolmore leading to Godolphin not buying into Coolmore stallions (believed to be over the Coolmore operation not supporting the Dubai World Cup meeting) is probably the biggest reason as to why they're playing second fiddle to Coolmore at the moment rather than their trainers or jockeys.
Magnier might not have been availing of the Arab millions but almost by default it actually served to strengthen his already formidable hand and weaken their greatest rivals.
But it should be remembered its not all one way traffic, only this year Godolphin had a one two in the Dubai World Cup with Ballydoyle hype machine So You Think well beaten in 4th, and last year Blue Bunting was a triple group one winner (1000 guineas, Irish Oaks, Yorkshire Oaks), and of course the unfortunate Rewilding beat the hype machine SYT as well.
Don't forget back in the mid eighties and for most of the nineties the Sheikh and family had Magnier and his then entourage by the proverbials.
The Coolmore boys couldn't believe that these upstarts could dare gatecrash what was their domain the global sales rings especially Keeneland which the Coolmore boys had almost a free reign on the best bloodstock.
The Arabs changed all that making Coolmore pay way over the odds for horses leading to these great judges of horse flesh O'Byrne and Magnier to buy the two biggest duds to ever come out of a sales ring in Seattle Dancer and The Green Donkey (monkey) the two most expensive sales purchases ever.
So Magnier is human afterall?.
The Sheikh might have made a mistake by refusing to buy into the Coolmore stallions but an even bigger mistake was the far from fallible Magnier deciding to get into a sustained war in the sales ring against the virtually bottomless supply of oil wealth, they tried to bully them as they had done with their previous american competitors, a fatal mistake that nearly destroyed Coolmore forever, they were virtually broke when the sales war had ended.
The formation of Classic Thoroughbreds plc was a last desperate attempt to stem the changing tide, it failed miserably with only Royal Academy a shining light in an otherwise train wreck.
Wasn't John Magnier extremely lucky that Sadlers Wells was just starting to lay down his marker at that time to eventually become the worlds greatest sire.
It should not be underestimated the influence this one horse had on pulling Magnier out of the gutter.
ima66 said;
In all honesty though with the kind of horses all of the Maktoums were having success with from the 1980s onwards with both male and female horses, they should really have had a breeding operation as good as Coolmore's now anyway and maybe even earlier than Coolmore did too.
Darley might not have had a stallion in the mold of Sadlers Wells and his offspring, these type of stallions are not exactly ten a penny, but the Darley operaton has still been a pretty successful breeding operation, they currently have Cape Cross one of the worlds better stallions, Shamardal, Halling, Exceed and Excel are no mugs etc.
Wouldn't it just be a tad ironic if Bonfire was to trump Coolmore wonder horse? Camelot in todays Derby?, Bonfire is by first season Darley sire Manduro.
Magnier might not have been availing of the Arab millions but almost by default it actually served to strengthen his already formidable hand and weaken their greatest rivals.
But it should be remembered its not all one way traffic, only this year Godolphin had a one two in the Dubai World Cup with Ballydoyle hype machine So You Think well beaten in 4th, and last year Blue Bunting was a triple group one winner (1000 guineas, Irish Oaks, Yorkshire Oaks), and of course the unfortunate Rewilding beat the hype machine SYT as well.
Don't forget back in the mid eighties and for most of the nineties the Sheikh and family had Magnier and his then entourage by the proverbials.
The Coolmore boys couldn't believe that these upstarts could dare gatecrash what was their domain the global sales rings especially Keeneland which the Coolmore boys had almost a free reign on the best bloodstock.
The Arabs changed all that making Coolmore pay way over the odds for horses leading to these great judges of horse flesh O'Byrne and Magnier to buy the two biggest duds to ever come out of a sales ring in Seattle Dancer and The Green Donkey (monkey) the two most expensive sales purchases ever.
So Magnier is human afterall?.
The Sheikh might have made a mistake by refusing to buy into the Coolmore stallions but an even bigger mistake was the far from fallible Magnier deciding to get into a sustained war in the sales ring against the virtually bottomless supply of oil wealth, they tried to bully them as they had done with their previous american competitors, a fatal mistake that nearly destroyed Coolmore forever, they were virtually broke when the sales war had ended.
The formation of Classic Thoroughbreds plc was a last desperate attempt to stem the changing tide, it failed miserably with only Royal Academy a shining light in an otherwise train wreck.
Wasn't John Magnier extremely lucky that Sadlers Wells was just starting to lay down his marker at that time to eventually become the worlds greatest sire.
It should not be underestimated the influence this one horse had on pulling Magnier out of the gutter.
ima66 said;
In all honesty though with the kind of horses all of the Maktoums were having success with from the 1980s onwards with both male and female horses, they should really have had a breeding operation as good as Coolmore's now anyway and maybe even earlier than Coolmore did too.
Darley might not have had a stallion in the mold of Sadlers Wells and his offspring, these type of stallions are not exactly ten a penny, but the Darley operaton has still been a pretty successful breeding operation, they currently have Cape Cross one of the worlds better stallions, Shamardal, Halling, Exceed and Excel are no mugs etc.
Wouldn't it just be a tad ironic if Bonfire was to trump Coolmore wonder horse? Camelot in todays Derby?, Bonfire is by first season Darley sire Manduro.
i think the sheik as lost a little interest ,because he could buy coolmore ten times over with is wealth
lets hops silver
, the only down side to bonfire winning, will be the fuss claire balding will display, but i suppose i can live with that 
, the only down side to bonfire winning, will be the fuss claire balding will display, but i suppose i can live with that
One of the probs with Godolphin oss's they always have the gun put to they're head early on.
Remember when Loder was training for them? Dot up first time out and then they're soured.
I do agree with most though that they just don't have the quality.
Remember when Loder was training for them? Dot up first time out and then they're soured.
I do agree with most though that they just don't have the quality.
There is little doubt that Godolphin as presently constituted is a disaster.
They don't hold a candle to Ballydoyle/Coolmore and every aspect of their operation has run out of steam for many years. Plenty of praise here from punters who can win a few quite at Bath and Nottingham but this counts for nought against the utter failure to compete at Group 1 level.
They don't hold a candle to Ballydoyle/Coolmore and every aspect of their operation has run out of steam for many years. Plenty of praise here from punters who can win a few quite at Bath and Nottingham but this counts for nought against the utter failure to compete at Group 1 level.
Silvergreaser reminds us of some good points in history but we are not speaking about yesteryear,this thread is about this season. Sure the Dubai World Cup was only a couple months ago however, it has nil value so far as the stud book is concerned and I got the feeling that the Ballydoyle/Coolmore runners were a spot of diplomacy and bridge building by the super shrewd John Magnier.
Interesting to hear what syndicate boss Harry Herbet said about brother in law John Warren calling him to immediately drive around to Highclere Stud and take a look at the then yearling Camelot commenting he just had to raise the funds to buy him. Ultimately he proved too costly at just over 500,000 Gns but of course it was the Ballydoyle team whom had also latched on to this colts potential and not any of the Arab operations were prepared to either not pay that much or being by a Coolmore sire Montjeu, he was quickly dismissed as an option.
Sheikh Mohammed's chief bloodstock advisor John Ferguson is of course an extremely talented man but I can't help feeling that his Irish opponents are streets ahead right now in their breeding and talent spotting regime.
Perhaps the ruler,of Dubai should be making an offer to Warren
Interesting to hear what syndicate boss Harry Herbet said about brother in law John Warren calling him to immediately drive around to Highclere Stud and take a look at the then yearling Camelot commenting he just had to raise the funds to buy him. Ultimately he proved too costly at just over 500,000 Gns but of course it was the Ballydoyle team whom had also latched on to this colts potential and not any of the Arab operations were prepared to either not pay that much or being by a Coolmore sire Montjeu, he was quickly dismissed as an option.
Sheikh Mohammed's chief bloodstock advisor John Ferguson is of course an extremely talented man but I can't help feeling that his Irish opponents are streets ahead right now in their breeding and talent spotting regime.
Perhaps the ruler,of Dubai should be making an offer to Warren
Interesting read SIlvergreaser like the way you picked little facts from different times in history and drop them in all over the place to help twist the story, good work keeps your hatred obsession of Coolmore on track.
Anyway I think Silvergreaser sums it up best when he has to use Halling as one of Darley better sires!
His best son is Cavalryman rated 125 and only one of two of his sons rated 120+ but a Grp 1 winner over 12f when trained in France by the master Andre Fabre, he is then transfered to Godolphin who run him from 10f to 16f all over the world and for two years he has struggled in some weak group races till he wins a listed race last week over 14f rated 113. I think this sums up the whole operation perfectly they dont have the consistant top bloodlines but when they get a good one, they take it from the people that made the horse and then try to force that horse into the mould they think will work. History shows this has lead to failure.
Losing people like Michael Osborne was also a massive hit so was losing the skills of Loder and Cecil etc.
Some of the "training methods" leave a lot to be desired aswell. Whats the old saying "you can leave it on the gallops",
Recently Lyric Of Light, Discourse but the constant flow of two year olds that dont train on for them is mind boggling
Is it one man trying to control everything is what is Godolphin and Darleys downfall?
Its a shame because racing would be pretty much wiped without them and they are a great company to work for.
Hoepfully they can get back on track soon.
Anyway I think Silvergreaser sums it up best when he has to use Halling as one of Darley better sires!
His best son is Cavalryman rated 125 and only one of two of his sons rated 120+ but a Grp 1 winner over 12f when trained in France by the master Andre Fabre, he is then transfered to Godolphin who run him from 10f to 16f all over the world and for two years he has struggled in some weak group races till he wins a listed race last week over 14f rated 113. I think this sums up the whole operation perfectly they dont have the consistant top bloodlines but when they get a good one, they take it from the people that made the horse and then try to force that horse into the mould they think will work. History shows this has lead to failure.
Losing people like Michael Osborne was also a massive hit so was losing the skills of Loder and Cecil etc.
Some of the "training methods" leave a lot to be desired aswell. Whats the old saying "you can leave it on the gallops",
Recently Lyric Of Light, Discourse but the constant flow of two year olds that dont train on for them is mind boggling
Is it one man trying to control everything is what is Godolphin and Darleys downfall?
Its a shame because racing would be pretty much wiped without them and they are a great company to work for.
Hoepfully they can get back on track soon.
Someone suggested Magnier become a billionaire out of the Coolmore breeding operation?
Surely like the rest of the Coolmore mafia (and JP Macmanus), he's generated most of his wealth due to his relationship with Joe Lewis (?) and a little currency trading business they have going?
Surely like the rest of the Coolmore mafia (and JP Macmanus), he's generated most of his wealth due to his relationship with Joe Lewis (?) and a little currency trading business they have going?
Losing the skills of a trainer like Cecil was a big mistake,
but at the time Cecil's young wife was interfering which Sheik Mohammed
was not going to tolerate on any level, and increasingly finding himself under any female authority was traditionally a no-no for him, but even so, still a
massive mistake taking his horses away.
Not just Cecil but losing other key staff he has suffered for it.
but at the time Cecil's young wife was interfering which Sheik Mohammed
was not going to tolerate on any level, and increasingly finding himself under any female authority was traditionally a no-no for him, but even so, still a
massive mistake taking his horses away.
Not just Cecil but losing other key staff he has suffered for it.
walking street, I'm sure if the hype machine SYT had won the worlds rIchest race it would've done wonders for his stud prospects?.
No doubt Coolmore would be splashing it all over the world.
No doubt Coolmore would be splashing it all over the world.
Petrobob I said racing has made Magnier a billionaire not the Coolmore breeding operation.Its from horses that he and McManus became wealty in the 70s.Off course they were going to put money into other things,the money that racing made them.As for Joe Lewis he was running nightclubs in the 70s he came on the scene much later.
walking street, I'm sure if the hype machine SYT had won the worlds rIchest race it would've done wonders for his stud prospects?.
No doubt Coolmore would be splashing it all over the world.
And why wouldn't they, after all it is a Group 1 race however, it's only attraction is its grotesquely huge prize money. It has no prestige what so ever in the stude book or to a stallions value.
Now that it is has been switched to the controversial Tapeta surface from desert sand, the Dubai World Cup race has lost its attraction to the top USA trained dirt horses and the only horses whom seriously target it are those owned by the Maktoum family, all invited over seas runners are enticed with lucrative appearance money deals with free travelling expenses.
No european breeders (even the Arabs) dream of winning a Dubai World Cup, it's all about the Group 1's held at places like Ascot, Curragh, Chantilly, Epsom, Longchamp and Newmarket.
No doubt Coolmore would be splashing it all over the world.
And why wouldn't they, after all it is a Group 1 race however, it's only attraction is its grotesquely huge prize money. It has no prestige what so ever in the stude book or to a stallions value.
Now that it is has been switched to the controversial Tapeta surface from desert sand, the Dubai World Cup race has lost its attraction to the top USA trained dirt horses and the only horses whom seriously target it are those owned by the Maktoum family, all invited over seas runners are enticed with lucrative appearance money deals with free travelling expenses.
No european breeders (even the Arabs) dream of winning a Dubai World Cup, it's all about the Group 1's held at places like Ascot, Curragh, Chantilly, Epsom, Longchamp and Newmarket.
Someone on here said they thought the sheikh had lost interest.
Obviously they have never been to Meydan
Obviously they have never been to Meydan
Three essential advantages for Coolmore/Ballydoyle over Darley/Godolphin:
Sadler's Wells...Danehill...Aidan O'Brien.
Sadler's Wells...Danehill...Aidan O'Brien.
theres loads by sadlers wells,hes had 100s of offspring.
Dusty Bin Suroor clueless , this Alzarouni character seems better , Snaafi Dancer sums it all up really.
so what does Aiden O'Brien do?
if the fugue wasn't badly interfered with yesterday he'd have had five darts and nothing to show for it.
What does it tell you?, he's no effing genuis because good horses make good trainers.
if the fugue wasn't badly interfered with yesterday he'd have had five darts and nothing to show for it.
What does it tell you?, he's no effing genuis because good horses make good trainers.
No one is going to change your opinion its to deeply grained silver and your entitled to it .
But taking 4 out of 4 english classics is one almighty feat , to campaign them through thier 2 yo season in the right races , get them through a winter and bring them to a certain fitness level on the day is not easy and fraught with the possobility of failure , ie parish hall , most improved a couple who didnt make it .
Any other trainer who has achieved what he has in the game you would be praising to the heavens silver , aiden is no different .
But taking 4 out of 4 english classics is one almighty feat , to campaign them through thier 2 yo season in the right races , get them through a winter and bring them to a certain fitness level on the day is not easy and fraught with the possobility of failure , ie parish hall , most improved a couple who didnt make it .
Any other trainer who has achieved what he has in the game you would be praising to the heavens silver , aiden is no different .
so johnny **** trainer wouldn't have done the same thing if given the same ammuniton?
almighty feat my ass, almighty horses yeh?
almighty feat my ass, almighty horses yeh?
Lets be fair, him being such a mug is helping us punters make a living, you only have to look at the retrobates he employs, his HR dept ain t that cute
silvergreaser
Darley might not have had a stallion in the mold of Sadlers Wells and his offspring, these type of stallions are not exactly ten a penny, but the Darley operaton has still been a pretty successful breeding operation, they currently have Cape Cross one of the worlds better stallions, Shamardal, Halling, Exceed and Excel are no mugs etc.
Whilst all of that is true and things have improved more recently and they have also bought into the Saddler's Wells bloodline with Derby winners like Authorized and New Approach plus Teofilio, I'm thinking of much further back and horses like Belmez, Carnegie, Doyen, King's Theatre, Lammtarra, Old Vic, Opera House, Moonex, Pennekamp, Sulamani, Swain, Nashwan, Erhaab, Fantastic Light, Mtoto, Alhaarth, Ashal, Dayjur, Elmaamul, Haafhd, Hamas, Lahib, Muhtarram and then the female side of things with Diminuendo, Indian Skimmer, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Aqaarid, Eswarah, Harayir, Mehthaaf, Salsabil and Shadayid and that's without taking into account many of the ones I've forgotten, non UK based horses I am less familiar with and then all of the other Maktoum family members horses and other owners with ties to the family where Sheikh Mo seems to tell them he is having their good horses.
I'm not sure though that "Snaafi Dancer sums it all up really" adds too much to the whole debate though.
Darley might not have had a stallion in the mold of Sadlers Wells and his offspring, these type of stallions are not exactly ten a penny, but the Darley operaton has still been a pretty successful breeding operation, they currently have Cape Cross one of the worlds better stallions, Shamardal, Halling, Exceed and Excel are no mugs etc.
Whilst all of that is true and things have improved more recently and they have also bought into the Saddler's Wells bloodline with Derby winners like Authorized and New Approach plus Teofilio, I'm thinking of much further back and horses like Belmez, Carnegie, Doyen, King's Theatre, Lammtarra, Old Vic, Opera House, Moonex, Pennekamp, Sulamani, Swain, Nashwan, Erhaab, Fantastic Light, Mtoto, Alhaarth, Ashal, Dayjur, Elmaamul, Haafhd, Hamas, Lahib, Muhtarram and then the female side of things with Diminuendo, Indian Skimmer, Pebbles, Oh So Sharp, Aqaarid, Eswarah, Harayir, Mehthaaf, Salsabil and Shadayid and that's without taking into account many of the ones I've forgotten, non UK based horses I am less familiar with and then all of the other Maktoum family members horses and other owners with ties to the family where Sheikh Mo seems to tell them he is having their good horses.
I'm not sure though that "Snaafi Dancer sums it all up really" adds too much to the whole debate though.
Great horses granted , takes a great trainer to get them there and do the job
Not many of AOBs pull out due to not being ready or injury , parish hall and akeed mofeed were high class hopes who didnt make it
Not many of AOBs pull out due to not being ready or injury , parish hall and akeed mofeed were high class hopes who didnt make it
ima as I said these super stallions are not exactly ten a penny, I'm sure you can name me 50 Coolmore stallions that were miserable failures?
Petrobob I said racing has made Magnier a billionaire not the Coolmore breeding operation.Its from horses that he and McManus became wealty in the 70s.
Not really sure about Magnier, but McManus only earned a bit of seed money from early coups from racing. He became a rich man from subsequent currency and commodities trading, and a very rich man during the Celtic Tiger boom.
Don't quote me on it, but I think that Magnier lucked out a bit. Married Vincent O'Brien's daughter, and earned the trust of Robert Sangster very early in his career. He's clearly a good judge though. I doubt that they blundered into the Northern Dancer line by accident.
Not really sure about Magnier, but McManus only earned a bit of seed money from early coups from racing. He became a rich man from subsequent currency and commodities trading, and a very rich man during the Celtic Tiger boom.
Don't quote me on it, but I think that Magnier lucked out a bit. Married Vincent O'Brien's daughter, and earned the trust of Robert Sangster very early in his career. He's clearly a good judge though. I doubt that they blundered into the Northern Dancer line by accident.
Must really rub in the face of Sheik Mo, when his son competes in long distance desert races and AOB son wins at the Breeders Cup and the Group 1's at the Derby meeting.
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