Showdown with the worlds greatest horse,'unlikely' says Caviars owner

when she comes over here is she being stabled at chemical nicky's?

classy individuals you lot

Sprinters don't have the same value as milers and thats a global situation, you can breed horses that can bolt up at 2-3 furlongs and indeed this type of runner is raced but like I said the goalpost is 12 furlong for classic horses and less is less and thats a fact as name one big sprint race that has global status in the racing calender

Aussies are all mouth and no trousers

you're not going to reach a valid point with that argument, you just watch on saturday we have a group 1 sprint race, watch how competitive it is

that's what our horse racing is all about, speed

May 24, 2012 -- 3:51PM, educeee wrote:

she's an equine freak, why must you be so fast to concede foul integrity is the reason she's so goodcan't recall any australia ever venturing down that path about your good horse, shows the kind of person you are I suppose

That didn't last longAussie sprinters have had these type of problems before.

that's what our horse racing is all about, speed

ironic then that the ermmm "race that stops a nation" is a 2 mile plod.

you'll notice the horses who win that race these days are foreign horses, our own trainers have conceded it's a big weakness and go out buying overseas horses

it's only a plod for your once paced stayed who get burnt by horse with a turn of foot, mainly french and german horses (the arc springs to mind)

agree there ed, i could never see what all the fuss was about with that maybe divvy thing that used to win that handicap year on year.

May 24, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Triple-Trigger wrote:

May 24, 2012 --  3:51PM, educeee wrote:she's an equine freak, why must you be so fast to concede foul integrity is the reason she's so goodcan't recall any australia ever venturing down that path about your good horse, shows the kind of person you are I supposeThat didn't last longAussie sprinters have had these type of problems before.

you're implying more then 1, name them

a big problem 5/6 years ago apparently

In 1983 HABIBTI the 3yr old ridden by Willie Carson and trained John Dunlop and owned Mohamed Mutawa ran the fastest ever prix de l'Abbaye de Lonchampre in a record time of 0:54.3 seconds. carrying
black caviars best time over 5 55.44 
so basically evertyhing is relative to the day ground and track

throwing around will accusations again MAX?

Not going into it again,done it all before on the OZ forum.

suppose, can't prove a point so just throw around cheating allegations

must be the british way

The headline of this thread could just as easily have read;

"Showdown with the worlds greatest horse,'unlikely' says Frankel owner"

she would finish 3 length behind habibti on known form if you take everything at face value.

I can't understand all the hostility surrounding Black Caviar - why doesn't EVERY racing fan appreciate an outstanding racehorse wherever it's trained?

Wasn't everyone a big fan of Zenyatta?
For me...this Aussie is more exciting!

I don't give a sh*t about times or course records (they are not everything) and appreciate that like Frankel, this mare has NEVER been extended?

I have no doubt that in such circumstances, those kind of horses are capable of much more, and I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt.

When she comes over here...where is she gonna be stabled?

foetus, i said earlier, chemical nicky's, and if she ever goes to the states...she will be housed at the Betty Ford clinic

Thanks Duffy - I hadn't heard anything about it, as such basic information requires the Racing Post to have your bank details nowadays!

I can't understand all the hostility surrounding Black Caviar - why doesn't EVERY racing fan appreciate an outstanding racehorse wherever it's trained?

Sad people with nowt better to do.

Foetus - ignore duffy. She'll be at Jane Chapple-Hyam's

Hostility,not from me,it's Aus-Anglo banter,just that Frankel is better and they need to be told.

Anglo-Aus i should say

gonzo, surely he realized...the clues were in there after all!!

I might have missed it but the owner mentions having two races over here, is the 2nd race confirmed? July Cup or Kings Stand?

RNL - as far as I'm aware...the usual Aussie 'double' of the King's Stand & Golden Jubilee has NEVER been on the agenda, and the (hopefully) two walkovers will be the latter race, and then the July Cup.

I hope connections will reconsider after Newmarket, when they've blitzed up with the two 6 length drubbings I'm anticipating

I'll soon be accused of not being patriotic, but I don't give a fcuk...I want her to absolutely bolt up!

i am just happy she's coming over , i cant believe she's getting so much stick ,i can't wait to see her ,and i dont know why anyone ever taught they would meet ,they are both rule n there divisions thats good enough for me and she will beat the europeon sprinters with ease and thats a fact they have sent worst over that have won with ease .i expect both horse 's to remain unbeating this season and lets hope frankel steps up to the plate were as he has to give wait to good 3yr olds i have a feeling it is going to be a dodge n match with a lot of horse s this year

Lingbleed - are you trying to commit hari-kari and get yourself a ban for speaking eminent common sense?

The "hostility" is more towards some loud mouthed Aussie members who built up So You Think to be a superstar and then blamed the trainer, the tactics and every jockey who rode the horse rather than lose face and admit the horse wasn't quite good enough.

I'd still love to own him though and Black Caviar too as would everyone else and equally as would all of the Aussies who have rubbished Frankel love to own him too.

IM - that's probably spot on, but I still don't give a fcuk about any jingoism!

Frankel is The greatest horse in the world. Black Caviar is rated about 5 lengths behind him.

.

the problem is this, when she wins hard held on the bridle and isn't kicked in the guts to win by 6, uk racing fans will say "oh frankel would've beaten her"

why do you think his rating is so high, he's always pushed to the line, she wins with Nolen putting the texan strangler vice grip hold on the bridle

Educeee - it's exactly the same situation with Frankel as he hasn't exactly been extended, and booted to the line for the cameras...it means nothing mate

What's the point in needlessly leaving your next group one target behind for the sake of shutting up a few critics, and emptying the tank?

It would be madness, and NONE of these dissenters would be of the same opinion if they had 1/40th of a share!

personally I think the ratings are purely all about how far a horse wins by, Frankel's barely won a race which makes you think "oh my god how did he do that!"

Black Caviar won the newmarket handicap, giving weight to some of the best we have and was being pulled up to a canter, absolutely unbelievable

she beat Star Witness out of sight in that race, Star Witness went to Ascot last year and was a close runner up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_Qurl05YM



are you kidding me about Frankel not being extended, I seen that Ascot race, Queally was kicking him in the guts to get there

I've NEVER been critical of Black Caviar so get the fcuk off my back

I appreciate what she's achieved more than most over here, though handicaps seem to be frowned upon by us Brits in the main - it was a magnificent achievement, and arguably her best performance, though I'm sure you'd recognise that more than I can.

Do you really believe there's NOTHING left in Frankel's tank when he's won?

PS - I'm assuming when you say the Ascot race you mean the QE II, and not the St.James' Palace...that was an aberration, as EVERYONE knows!

Educeee - considering you're an Aussie...are you the apotheosis of a koala in reverse?

I've heard they sleep for 22 hours a day, and you seem to devote yourself to this forum for comparable hours

Just banter squire...let's see what you can return the serve with

there was nothing left at Ascot, i'll give you the tip but if he had gotten beaten at Ascot that wouldn't be at fault of Frankel's, it would be at fault of the joke which is known as a pacemaker, you know people are quick to accuse us of using "carrots" and such and that's the reason she's so good but truth be known, that pacemaker rubbish is banned here, how's that for integrity?

if I wanted to banter, you'd need some sort of lubricant to withstand the punishment, just ask T-T

i'm speaking facts here, if you go to Ascot, she is the best you'll ever see over the distance, look through that list of Australian sprinters

Miss Andretti, Choisir, Takeover Target, Scenic Blast.. all of their respective trainers have said she's the best they've seen in their lifetime

after Scenic Blast showed pure acceleration to win his king's stand, the presenters on ATR were absolutely gob smacked, you ain't seen nothing yet lads, this one might be the best Australia has ever produced

and you might find this outrageous but i'm not an australian citizen

I'll have you know I'm rather effective at the banter & baiting...why don't you show me what you can do?

Who the fcuk is TT?
I'll have you out of your comfort zone against the platers you've encountered on here

I'll say again...I'm not in denial about your great mare...she looks fantastic and I don't just wish her well in her future career...I hope she fcukin' bolts up at Ascot & Newmarket!

PS - I'm no fcukin' patriot...I was roaring on Whitlock against Taylor last week

* against? I meant 'compared to' I'm bladdered so I have a good excuse

Educeee - where are you from squire?
I had assumed you had antipodean roots as you are so entrenched in the Black Caviar camp?

TT is Triple-Trigger but I like to call him Tripe-Trigger, he pulls the trigger and spits out tripe

I have interests in the mare, you could say.

I have more interests in the dam to be accurate, wouldn't mind having a slice of BC though

I've seen some of Trigger's posts and I suspect he's someone who's been on here before, though I'm unaware of his previous nom-de-PLUMS

How have you ransacked the aforementioned urchin?

Is there something clandestine about your country of residence I'm unaware of? You seem reluctant to divulge, or is that just embarrassed?

If you DO have an interest in Black Caviar...I reckon your 'dessert' is sorted for Ascot

All banter aside...I really hope she does the business in style because the sport needs her

I think it's great when the foreigners take the spoils home as we KNOW they'll be back (and even c0ckier) and make our racing the best in the world - I don't think you can say the same about Bart from your neck of the woods

When Wesley Ward's horses ran out of their skins a few years ago, I was surprised there wasn't greater interest the year after from The States, though I believe he's resurfacing with his arsenal next month.

Trigger has previous names of Maxcady & 2THEMAX, he would come to the Australian forum day in and day out posting sh1t, trying to upset people and I always use to just read, never posted, I didn't have a forum account at the time until I thought enough is enough and I stepped in, he's since told me I am GT-MOLE (which I am not but he thinks I am)

I've chosen to keep my residence secret because after all I have said and done, I know people would think "no ****ing way" if I was to reveal it, well **** them here it is. I was born, bred and raised in Liverpool until a few years ago I moved to Australia and I have to say, I have fallen in love with their racing, it's a joy to watch and bet on even if their staying ranks do suck.

I make a hell of a lot more money on Aussie racing then I do UK (doesn't stop me trying though)

Educeee - a fellow Scouser eh?
Where about squire and are you there now?

If it makes you feel less embarrassed...I'm Anfield vermin

As for the Aussie stuff...I much prefer it to the Yank racing (as that's as boring as fcuk) but it's not something I like to put money on - there's enough sh*t racing here for that!

PS - I think TT must be delusional as GT's posts are telegraphed to everyone, the minute he opens a new account

no i'm based in Australia now, use to reside just out of Kirkby

yank racing is alright but it just sucks how they're never on start time and there's no service where you can watch the races without having to open separate videos on betfair

educee, not having a go here at all, but i've been watching the aussie racing for a few years now on atr, would you agree with me that the racing as a whole isn't that competitive on a race by race basis, whenever i watch the racing i find that the fancied runners in the markets more than not dominate in the races, very few horses outside the top 3/4 in the markets tend to win, i would like to see some stats on this but that's what i've found to be the case, obviously a "roughie" does go in from time to time, but not often.

duffy it varies, sydney and melbourne offer the best quality of racing, wednesday's and saturday's are the best days for it

it has alot to do with how they're trained, sometimes horses will race after a long period at 5-6f, despite their best distance perhaps being a mile or something longer, they use this run simply as a run to get the horse fit, you gotta watch out for those kind of races

educeee 
personally I think the ratings are purely all about how far a horse wins by, Frankel's barely not won a race which makes you think "oh my god how did he do that!"

Just thought I would fix that for you considering some of his winning distances have been 13L, 10L, 6L, 5L, 5L, 4L and 4L with some of those being Gr1s.

Miss Andretti, Choisir, Takeover Target and Scenic Blast as well as winning the odd race over here were also all beaten out of sight in UK sprints to the extent that you would think you were looking through the wrong end of your binoculars.

Miss Andretti - beaten 15th of 21 and 10½L to Soldier's Tale.

Choisir - beaten 1½L by Oasis Dream.

Takeover Target - beaten 3rd by 2¼L to Les Arcs a glorified handicapper and then 7th of 15 beaten 2L by the same horse, then ran 5 more times in the UK without winning with the last being 7th of 13 beaten 4½L by Fleeting Spirit and so 1 UK win from 8 attempts and yet is hailed as some kind of Aussie sprint king.

Scenic Blast - the same horse that apparently took the breath away was then a beaten 10th of 13 by 6¾L to Fleeting Spirit.

All in all a handful of wins, even fewer places and a lot more losses with plenty of UK, Irish, French, South African and Spanish runners and even UK milers like Paco Boy finishing ahead of Aussie horses at sprint trips but somehow Aussie sprinters are still the best in the world?

Miss Andretti - beaten 15th of 21 and 10½L to Soldier's Tale.

i got a mention on the bbc that day, in as much as i was the guy that got matched at 300+ on the exchanges to a couple of quid

on soldiers tale of course.

how many english horses have come to australia and won 1 of our group 1's please

sprinters I mean

be interested to see the results if you take that July Cup out of the equation

that's like a mile race with the undulations, completely out of our element racing in that race

Takeover Target won everywhere, he was winning group 1's when he was 10 years old, you can't deny his class on the world stage, well you can but you'd be exposed as a halfwit

It's simply not in the minds of trainers over here to send their sprinters to aus, whether they be good enough or not and even though the prize money is better, they just wouldn't do it.

anyway people don't remember the list of aussie horses for the time they were beaten, they remember them for their wins

Takeover Target's legacy won't be remembered about the time he broke down at Newmarket, it'll be about the times he won Singapore, UK, Japan. He will be remembered for being the world's highest rated sprinter in 2006 & the global sprint challenge champion in 2006

you seriously included his last race in the UK when broke down as a credible defeat?

How many times have you seen it said on here that English sprinters are the best in the world? Never I would guess and so only a true halfwit (and turncoat) would try to make a point with an example that nobody is claiming to be the case (the glorified handicapper comment was a clue btw) but having said that, if Takeover Target was winning Gr1 sprints everywhere including up to the age of 10 but was beaten out of sight in most of his UK races (even ignoring the last seeing as you have no idea at what point the injury occurred) then how good does that make those races he was winning elsewhere and at the age of 10? Also unless the same horses run in the same number of races in the Global Sprint Series then it's totally meaningless as one horse could win 2-3 but be beaten by a street in another and by half a dozen horses yet still claim the title.

Oh and when you say "people" don't remember the list of Aussie horses for the times they were beaten, by people you obviously mean cherry picking Aussies and ex-pats living there now and you seem to have counted So You Think's win over a clearly not right and so retired Workforce as a legitimate defeat so why not Takeover Target's? More of your double standard eh educeee?

Oh and LOL at completely out of "our" element coming from a Scouser!

SYT finished ahead of Workforce twice, suppose he wasn't right both times



so you're saying english sprinters aren't the best but at the same time you're making reason for ours not being the best, despite having multiple horses to travel overseas and win over the sprinting distance

it's not a coincidence

is Workforce remembered for the arc he won or is he remembered for the time SYT chased him down after SYT was boxed in by the pacemaker?

double standards

We've had this so many times educeee but either you have trouble retaining information or you just blank out any logical response to anything you say just so as you can repeat the same things all over again at a later date.

Workforce's best runs were in the Derby (12f) and the Arc (12f) can you see a pattern forming here? He was beaten in the Dante (10f) in the run before the Derby win, struggled off 128 to beat the 114 rated Poet in the Brigadier Gerard (10f) although was only just beaten ½L in the Eclipse (10f) by a horse better suited to the trip. I expect if So You Think dropped back to a mile and was beaten out of sight by Frankel then the first thing you would rightly say was that the drop backed didn't suit SYT as well as the trip suited Frankel. You also seem to have imagined So You Think being held in by the pacemaker and I've told you at least twice before that this wasn't the case as SYT tracked WF but started to lug in behind when coming under pressure, but there was plenty of room to pull out when his jockey wanted to with the pacemaker having gone out wide and unable to keep up with the main two runners.

Workforce will be remembered for his defeats as much as the wins considering they outnumber the wins but had he retired at 3 then that wouldn't be the case and he certainly won't go down as an all time great like Sea The Stars despite both winning a Derby and an Arc. If you have trouble seeing that a previous year's Arc winner was a 12th of 16 beaten 14½L the following year and are not able to comprehend that wasn't the horse's true running when horses like St Nicholas Abbey had previously finished behind and so they retired WF, then that says all we need to know about your (lack of) knowledge of the game.

Maybe I should copy this reply so that I can just paste it again for about the 5th time when you ignore the facts and come up with the same tired arguments once more.

haha you're not even making sense anymore, the race was a stronger race the following year and plodforce just couldn't compete with a powerhouse like SYT, it's ok to acknowledge it

think it would be better for all concerned if bc and frank never met and both retired unbeaten ,that way the aussies and brits would still have plenty to argue about over who was best ,connections would both be happy with unbeaten records and no myths would be shattered . both would still have the air of invincibility and both horses would still have legendary status for years to come .
to be fair if they did meet it would not solve anything as the most likely race is the sussex stakes, unfair on black caviar and massivly favouring frankel, and whoever won the excuses for the beaten horse would be offered up ,so in my opinion it would sovle nothing .

Australia do have the best failed milers tbf.

Lot of difference on the stats between Oz horses at 5f compared to their record over 6f imo

ima-mazed, a bit churlish to pick out Oasis Dreams defeat of Choisir in the July Cup as an example?, not only was Oasis Dream a top class sprinter in his own right as he went on to win the Nunthorpe impressively before finishing r/up to mud lover Somnus in the Haydock Sprint.

You failed to point out for some reason that Choisir had already beaten Oasis Dream by 2+Lengths in the King Stand before going on to win the 6f Golden Jubilee from hot fav Airwave.

All in all most Aussie sprinters have performed with great credit when they've ventured to these shores, and don't forget its they and not the British sprinters who are travelling the thousands of miles and having to re-acclimatise.

And I'm pretty certain the monster that is Black Caviar would have all those top sprinters for breakfast and leave plenty of room for seconds?.

Is Frankel the greatest?
Jason Hall Friday 25 May http://www.sussexexpress.co.uk


THE Lockinge Stakes at Newbury saw the return to action of the world’s best racehorse in Frankel and he did not let down the thousands of racing enthusiasts who flocked to see him at the Berkshire venue by producing yet another truly imperious performance to demolish a talented field.


Saturday’s win was his sixth Group One success and the 10th win of his unbeaten career.

Undoubtedly, Frankel is a true champion and the world of horse racing benefits enormously from the extra publicity it receives from the wider sporting media as a result of his exploits.

He has certainly proved that his name is worthy of more than just a mention when comparisons are made between other champions of their generations such as Sea Bird, Nijinsky, Mill Reef and most recently Sea The Stars.

Post race, his mercurial trainer Sir Henry Cecil expounded the virtues of his four-year-old colt and intimated that the son of Galileo seemed an even more rounded and professional individual this year which is quite a statement considering what the horse achieved last term.

There is a developing desire amongst the racing press for Frankel to be tested at a mile and a quarter and Cecil responded to this on Saturday: “He’ll probably tackle a mile and a quarter as the season goes on but there’s no hurry.”

Personally, I do not think I have ever seen a racehorse of such ability and that comment even applies when considering the thoroughbred I consider to be the best racehorse of at least the past 25 years in Sea The Stars.

Frankel appears to have the quality to eclipse the remarkable record of that Irish star but will he be given the opportunity to do so?

Sea The Stars won the 2000 Guineas and The Derby before going on to defeat his elders in the Juddmonte International and Irish Champion before finally producing an amazing performance to crown his career when winning the Prix de la Arc de Triomphe.

All of these wins remarkably came during his three-year-old campaign and he was subsequently retired having achieved victory at the highest level over distances of eight, ten and 12 furlongs.

There are no unanswered questions about his stamina and class in any category.

Every horse is different, but when you consider the pedigree of Frankel, it is very difficult to say he does not have the requisite bloodlines to justify taking a crack at equalling or surpassing the records of racing’s greatest champions and cementing his place as one of the luminaries of the thoroughbred breed.

The outstanding trainer of this generation, Aidan O’Brien, recently commented that providing a variety of tests for the very best racehorses of each generation was a responsibility that every trainer had in order to continue to develop the breed as a whole.

When you consider that Frankel has Group One quality at a mile and a half littered throughout his pedigree – and you reflect on his total dominance of the mile category at present, it could be suggested that to examine the horse firstly at a mile and a quarter, and then ultimately at another two furlongs, is the way forward for this superb race horse.

Frankel looks to be a freak of nature but if his connections decline to give the opportunity to him it will be a case in years to come of “would he or wouldn’t he” and a chance they are unlikely to ever see presented to them again.

John Oxx fearlessly took up the challenge with Sea The Stars and I very much hope to see his contemporaries take up the gauntlet in the same way.

After all, what is there to lose?

educeee 
haha you're not even making sense anymore, the race was a stronger race the following year and plodforce just couldn't compete with a powerhouse like SYT, it's ok to acknowledge it

You mean stronger race where the likes of Snow Fairy and St Nicholas Abbey had both previously been well beaten by Workforce despite in SF's case it being 10f which she has had a higher level of success at than WF and SNA being beaten 2¾L in the King George despite WF practically drifting across the width of the track, yet in the Arc was well behind both of them and you see nothing wrong with that despite connections retiring WF?

Nice body swerve to ignore all of that, did you pick that up from watching Aussie rules football? Do yourself a favour and stop typing as all you are really doing is embarrassing yourself....although I'm glad that you personally feel I'm not making sense though as that kind of gives me a feeling of assurance that I'm doing fine.

Is it churlish to point out the facts silvergreaser?

I wasn't making any judgement on the merits of Choisir's races over here, just pointing out that it's been said on here more than once by Aussies (and pseudo Aussies) that their sprinters have "dominated" sprint races here and I was merely pointing out that from around 25 races they have won about 4 or 5 and I'll happyily to applaud their sporting effort and for having a go and good luck to them when they win but it just amuses me a little regarding all of the cherry picking whilst totally ignoring race outcomes when it doesn't suit.

On the Choisir/Oasis Dream thing I've previously acknowledged it was 1-1 in other threads and have made a point of saying the Aussie horses seem to have more success at 5f than 6f but I'm not the one claiming our sprinters are the best in the world like the Aussies (and pseudos) are. Sprinters especially by the very nature of the races tended to beat each other and is why Choisir/Oasis Dream can flip flop or why Scenic Blast and Fleeting Spirit can do the same. Even a miler like Paco Boy finished well clear of Scenic Blast on the one time they met and this was a 2 time Australian Champion Sprinter and 2 time Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year and yet in that same race it finished behind a 10YO Takeover Target or in back to back races Miss Andretti can win and finish 2½L of Takeover Target and then finish 15th to his photo finish 2nd by 10L behind him in her very next run and even behind another Aussie horse like Magnus.

you fail to acknowledge the success aussie sprinters have had when flying halfway across the planet, instead you're super quick to point out the failures and you have the gall to accuse me of cherrypicking?

so if australians don't have the best sprinters, who does? and I want a list of horses to back this claim up, including any overseas races they may have won to make this claim valid, I already know the answer though

as for Paco Boy, that would have undoubtedly been in that July Cup race ran on the mountains of Newmarket

I have already said it's more like a mile race given the undulations, thanks for solidifying my statement, moron

the problem with you mugboy66, is that you've always found reason to take anything away from anything any australian horse has ever achieved but yet whenever one of your own horses has been shown up there's always been an excuse and you divulge the form to say "oh this horse beat this horse by this much and that subsequent horse came out and was beaten by that horse", just shut your trap and understand australian sprinters are the best in the world, these ratings people bend over backwards about when discussing Frankel, let's take another look at these ratings, if you don't mind

Black Caviar - sprinter, rated 136 (2nd in the world)
Hay List - sprinter, rated 132 (equal 5th in the world)
Sepoy - sprinter rated 129 (equal 7th in the world)
Foxwedge - sprinter rated 128 (equal 8th in the world)


what do you guys have, HOOF IT???

stop this hysteria

to add to that list, you got horses like Ortensia who don't even make the list travelling to Dubai and winning, shows the strength and calibre of australian sprinters, you can not deny it, let me say it again so a little pea brained individual such as yourself can divulge what I am saying

you can not deny australian sprinters are the best in the world and have been for quite some time, if you were twice as smart you'd still be stupid

hth

ima_mazed66...you didnt do your homework too good.

quote.

Scenic Blast on the one time they met and this was a 2 time Australian Champion Sprinter and 2 time Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year

fact Senic blast only won the australian sprinter of the year  ONEtime in 2008-2009 our racing season actually runs from august till end of july the following year.

and ONE Australian racehorse of the year and there were many factors why he won that year through injury to better horses and extra points for winning overseas.

just like your racing industry claimed Starspangledbanner as its own and won the european champion sprinter of 2010.

you proved one thing to me...you aint that knowledgeable 


, your just good at getting info from the net....and i will let you in on a little secret, unless you know what you are reading, you may sometimes look the fool

What's wrong educeee, is retaining enough information in one post too much of an issue for you and you have to have a lay down between posts?

I've acknowledged Aussies sprinters winning races elsewhere at the same time as pointing off that the Global Sprint Challenge is pretty meaningless all the same when it's made up of 6-10 races and you can win it by winning 2 of them yet being beaten out of sight in others just as those Aussie horses have, and unless you have every horse run in the same races or at least the same number then it becomes a bit a a farce really. A prime example would be if we look at some of the Aussie winners of it:

2006 Takeover Target - won 2 of the 7 qualifying races and well beaten in 2 of the other UK legs as well as beaten 3L in a Gr2 in between including beating and being beaten by some of the very same horses in those races.

2007 Miss Andretti - won 2 of the 7 races and beaten over 10½L in another of the UK legs and then beaten 12½L in the HK leg.

2008 - Apache Cat won it by winning 1 of the 8 legs and only actually ran in 2 of them.

And I've already previously posted about Scenic Blast winning one here and then being well and truly turned over in another and even Starspangeledbanner was turned over by a 100/1 shot here and just out of interest, how many international horses run in the Lightning Stakes which is the first leg run in January, the middle of our winter and 2 months either side of when one season ends and another begins and so hardly ideal targets for any UK horses.

As to which country has the best sprinters, it's impossible to say as apart from the fact they all tend to beat each other with regularity, as I keep saying unless all of the same horses are meeting in the same races then any claims are basically pointless and if a horse like Hay List (rated 125) had come over here last season and was beaten by say Dream Ahead (126) and anyone were to claim that made Dream Ahead the best sprinter in the world then Aussies would be only too quick to point out Black Caviar rated 130. Incidentally if BC is on 130 and HL on 125 the should HL really be being beaten almost a length by Foxwedge when rated 122?

Would that be the winning handicapper Hoof It that nobody has ever claimed is anything special (the clue is in the word handicapper) and was is rated at a high of 119 and has dropped down since? I think you might want to go and double check some of those ratings too as I'm guessing here you had trouble staying on the same line when using your finger to follow along the screen, although let me see if I guess what has really happened. Frankel is rated the best horse in the world going by the World Thoroughbred Rankings on 136 with BC on 130, so lets pick some more of those cherries and use Timeform's ratings instead and hey presto we bump BC up level with Frankel.....but if we then close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and make ner-ner-ner not listening noises and ignore that fact that Timeform also rate Frankel on 143 we might even get away with it!

Oh and as for Paco Boy and the mountain which is Newmarket racecourse, the July Cup is run on the July course (once again the clue is in the name) which if anything is very slightly downhill for about 5 of the 6f (and that shouldn't be a problem as Aussie sport has been going downhill for a while now) and then has a slight incline for the final furlong but I've told you all of this before but you do your usual trick of blanking out anything that doesn't suit your argument just so as you can make it again in the future.

I even tried to help you here by advising you to stop typing and embarrassing yourself and yet there's nothing funnier or more pitiful then someone calling someone else a moron when just about everyone else can see the ultimate irony in that and most clued up people also can tell when one person is reduced to chucking around the abuse and insults then there's usually quite a telling reason for that.

ima_mazed66 i suggest you stop pretending you know a lot about australian sprinters, you are looking a fool in the eyes of those who do know.

keep reading wikipedia, you might raise a valid point soon enough

fkn mugzilla

IMA FUKCING MAZED give us a tip Quick FFS YSDC?   INDIANA?

1 x 7 dutched and rev ex..........collect ima..........called punting.gl

You're absolutely right sootyfive I don't know much about Aussie sprinters and don't know too much about Aussie racing in general and for that matter don't claim to be an expert on UK racing either, but if those Aussie sprinters are supposedly the best in the world and yet more often that not come over here and get spanked by our sprinters that are no great shakes, then it's not unreasonable to suggest that they might not actually be the best in the world after all and like I keep saying, sprinters tend to take tuns in beating each other anyway.

Whether I or anyone else with no interest in racing at all knows anything about Aussie sprinters doesn't alter the fact that UK, Irish, French, Spanish and various other country's sprinters in races have all regularly finished in front of Aussie sprinters all over the world......ever heard the expression don't shoot the messenger?

As for you educeee if being abusive over the Internet to a stranger halfway around the world makes you feel better about yourself and a little less inadequate, then I'm a benevolent kind of bloke and am happy enough to permit you that little pleasure as it I would almost seem cruel not to.

first off, I don't care for individual horse stats, once again you go on about "this horse was beaten by this far", that's irrelevant in the scheme of things, australian develop the best sprinters, that's the point i'm making, once again I ask you to point out to me a nation with a better record instead you come up with this

As to which country has the best sprinters, it's impossible to say as apart from the fact they all tend to beat each other with regularity, as I keep saying unless all of the same horses are meeting in the same races then any claims are basically pointless and if a horse like Hay List (rated 125) had come over here last season and was beaten by say Dream Ahead (126) and anyone were to claim that made Dream Ahead the best sprinter in the world then Aussies would be only too quick to point out Black Caviar rated 130. Incidentally if BC is on 130 and HL on 125 the should HL really be being beaten almost a length by Foxwedge when rated 122?

if say Hay List was beaten by say Dream Ahead, that's all "what ifs" it never happened so don't bring that argument into my court, let me discuss the Foxwedge argument, it's real simple, extremely so simple a mug like you will have no trouble comprehending what I am about to say. Hay List suffered a potential career ending injury in his last start when beaten barely by Foxwedge, other then that Foxwedge has seen nothing but the fine looking rump of Hay List, you don't watch the racing you just go off what the form guide says, you wouldn't know these things so I can't blame you for that but I can blame you for suggesting you know what you're talking about, you have no idea. Since you feel the absolute necessity to try to indicate to me that Foxwedge should be rated closer to HL, let me get a few figures of my own

Foxwedge carried 50kg in the Newmarket handicap, Hay List carried 58.5kg in that very same race, I know you may not be a math student, that's 8.5 kgs advantage to Foxwedge but was still beaten over 2L by HL. you didn't see that race in your form guide did you, you must've missed that one

one more thing, you mention that any UK horse coming over here to race in our Lightning Stakes it wouldn't be fair because of it being your winter, well isn't that just the most muppet-headed thing you could of said? everytime one of our sprinter wins at Ascot it's OUR winter, maybe that's a contributing factor to the inconsistent results, never stopped us winning though..

fkn mug, come back next time

LOL.....OK first of all the word is have and not of.

Do I really have to spoon feed you this stuff too and it's not so much just the fact is our winter here but it's the kind of winters we have compared to yours, which was one of the reasons Sheikh Mo set up Godolphin so that he could winter his horses in Dubai where they get a bit of sun on their back instead of spending it here and are then are thought to be forward in their preparations for our early season classics.

There we be times here in December/January that the gallops here are covered in snow and ice and we've even had all weather meetings called off and so how do you expect our trainers to get any exercise into their runners for Aussie races, swim them over? And that's without even going into quarantine stipulations too?

lol,lol,lol,lol ima mazed re your winter excuse

heard it all now, PMSL

so how do you expect our trainers to get any exercise into their runners for Aussie races, swim them over?

ima mazed, maybe they can follow  P Moodys brainstorm idea, fly their horses over,lol,lol

Megsy........ffs............show your tips..........BF are covering your shyte and you and IMA could have had a face off.

Never mind,I have decided to come and educate you lot for your big race.................................then we will have a few beers.

you would be gogsmack how big the big race is commerically and to the millions..the race that stops 2 nations.

my tips???.....well i was going to lay itchy powder, but his been scratched

AND GLENCADAM GOLD WINS THE MELBOURNE CUP.

Come on megsy, don't let me down now as I like to think you are better than this......and will Moody only have BC getting fit on a treadmill during the flight over or will he despite it being your winter still be able to get plenty of work into the horse on grass and not have to worry about being snowed in and unable to get to the gallops, will they be suitable to run on even if he can get there, or does he have to worry about how will he get the horse box on the icy roads to take the horse for a race course gallop?

Please think before you type now eh?

get stuck into your homework on the net ima mazed, your still being a goose, BC has actually just returned from a 7 day stint in the paddock where shes been eating to her hearts content...see you dont know shyt, but you can only try to sound knowledgeable about australian horse racing and i will repeat...and i will let you in on a little secret, unless you know what you are reading, you may sometimes look the fool

Erm, if I don't know shyte then I must know something as two positives make a negative but clearly English isn't your strong point megsy (your and you're) as I've said often enough I know little about Aussie racing but if something is a fact then what do I need to know? The fact is though if your sprinters were coming over here and regularly getting spanked, it's irrelevant whether I know a single thing about Aussie racing if they were still getting well and truly beaten more often than not here anyway and that's just a fact you're (thumbs up) finding hard to accept.

I did learn something though and not ashamed to admit that I didn't realise Aussie racing seasons spanned two calendar years but like I keep saying I've not much knowledge of it but do have a bit of UK racing knowledge and know that if the likes of Al Quasi, Amadeus Wolf, Asset, Balthazaar's Gift, Baltic King, Benbaun, Bordelescott, Dandy Man, Kingsgate Native, Les Arcs, Main Aim, Paco Boy, Presto Shinko, Red Clubs, Sir Gerry, Tax Free and Wi Dud, a collection of handicappers and failing to stay the mile types can at various times finish in front of any of Takeover Target, Miss Andretti and Scenic Blast as well as other international horses from France, Spain and South Africa also doing so then your (thumbs up again) supposedly best in the world sprinters really can't be up to much, as anyone else with a bit of UK and Irish racing will tell you very few if any from that list I gave are superstars.

Oh and of course I look things up online, I even do so too for some UK racing related stuff as you can't honestly expect anyone to know everything about racing in their own country let alone in other places, which was why I went easy on your "fellow countryman" talking about the mountain like course of Newmarket for the July Cup when it isn't even run on the Rowley course......and he's someone who originally comes from over here too.

when your made a fool, you throw in the old grammer correction.
run along inspector ( on the buses )


didnt take much to have your pants around your ankles

winter excuses by far your best,lol,lol


have a good day

It's probably more a case of me finding it amusing to be called all sorts of names and told how stupid I am by someone who doesn't know the difference between that words have and of, for example could have (good) or would of (not so good) and between your and you're as in you are and these are basic English things that the average person knows, as opposed to racing matters in a foreign country that the average racing fan might not know let alone the average person in general.

I always tend to find though that when the main point being made is valid and unquestionable then those who don't like the truth tend to try to find minor fault in the detail as a distraction tactic, so if I were to say a 2 times Australian Champion Sprinter and 2 times Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year was 10th of 13 beaten 6¾L in our 6f July Cup, then what better way to deflect from that humiliation then to totally ignore that and focus on the fact that somebody with a self confessed limited knowledge of Aussie racing made a mistake in the finer detail where it was a one time only?

So then when you make yourself look a bit silly by not even being able to work out why in possibly snow covered conditions it can be difficult to get flat horses fit here and I have to point out the obvious to you, you repeat the winter excuse line again in a feeble attempt to try not to acknowledge your embarrassing oversight in the hope that nobody else notices either.

Did you by any chance represent O J Simpson during his trial?

hey amazed, I like you

as such I feel it's in your best interest you put everything you got on Buffering to win this next race at Doomben

5.0 currently on betfair, load up and thank me later

did it win?

no it got beat a lip

so if I were to say a 2 times Australian Champion Sprinter and 2 times Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year was 10th of 13 beaten 6¾L in our 6f July Cup, then what better way to deflect from that humiliation then to totally ignore that and focus on the fact that somebody with a self confessed limited knowledge of Aussie racing made a mistake in the finer detail where it was a one time only?


you never listen do you, i repeat from 8 hours ago

ima_mazed66...you didnt do your homework too good.

quote.

Scenic Blast on the one time they met and this was a 2 time Australian Champion Sprinter and 2 time Australian Champion Racehorse of the Year

fact Senic blast only won the australian sprinter of the year  ONEtime in 2008-2009 our racing season actually runs from august till end of july the following year.

and ONE Australian racehorse of the year and there were many factors why he won that year through injury to better horses and extra points for winning overseas.

just like your racing industry claimed Starspangledbanner as its own and won the european champion sprinter of 2010.

you proved one thing to me...you aint that knowledgeable

have to disagree with IM when he called Les Arcs a handicapper.
he was a selling class hurdler.