Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
I've just bought the Racing Post for the last time after listening to Bruce Millingtons arrogant response when asked about the price increase of the post, sounded like take it or leave it to me ,i'll leave it
Show More
No idea why but i've kept the last edition i've bought personally from 31/08/2007 , with the software available now I just don't have any need for the paper & coincidentally that was the last date I purchased a national newspaper.
The wife is more than delighted not to have seen black finger prints everywhere for the last few years and the fire hazard I used to have stored in the bedroom has long gone.
As for the standard of the paper these days i've not opened a copy in all that time so wouldn't have a clue whether good , bad or indifferent.
Good luck today all
The wife is more than delighted not to have seen black finger prints everywhere for the last few years and the fire hazard I used to have stored in the bedroom has long gone.
As for the standard of the paper these days i've not opened a copy in all that time so wouldn't have a clue whether good , bad or indifferent.
Good luck today all
Motley. Superb stuff. But what the RP management should surely be asking itself is "how can we make the editorial content more interesting so that more people are prepared to buy it?"
After all if the circulation dwindles away to a point where the RP is no longer of interest the boomakers or tipsters, there will no longer be a specialist racing daily availible in this country.
And that will be a bad and sad moment for everyone involved.
After all if the circulation dwindles away to a point where the RP is no longer of interest the boomakers or tipsters, there will no longer be a specialist racing daily availible in this country.
And that will be a bad and sad moment for everyone involved.
there will no longer be a specialist racing daily availible in this country.
And that will be a bad and sad moment for everyone involved.
The pinhooker, given that the only real agenda for this publication is now the misdirection and commercial exploitation of its own readership, you could argue that its demise would leave the path open for something else to take its place.
As I have said before on other threads, any punter now giving his money to them is like a turkey going out and buying the twelve inch of 'I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day', imho...
And that will be a bad and sad moment for everyone involved.
The pinhooker, given that the only real agenda for this publication is now the misdirection and commercial exploitation of its own readership, you could argue that its demise would leave the path open for something else to take its place.
As I have said before on other threads, any punter now giving his money to them is like a turkey going out and buying the twelve inch of 'I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day', imho...
Thanks Pinhooker, but the post now in a conduit/vechile for it's advertisers, the more readers it
produces the greater the value to the advertisers, and the more they can charge, it's a captive market.
It's owners are a private equity firm who are just interested in profit and nothing
else, they will eventually unload the paper as a going concern, and the hope is an old style media man takes
over and reinvents it. I agree It will indeed be a sad day, if there is no daily trade paper.
produces the greater the value to the advertisers, and the more they can charge, it's a captive market.
It's owners are a private equity firm who are just interested in profit and nothing
else, they will eventually unload the paper as a going concern, and the hope is an old style media man takes
over and reinvents it. I agree It will indeed be a sad day, if there is no daily trade paper.
Millhouse: Rather than "something else its place" to come along, wouldn't it be prferable for the Post to turn over a new leaf (so to speak) and produce a paper that racing minded individuals might be prepared to buy?
The only way that could conceivably happen is if the content of the paper became worth reading.
The only way that could conceivably happen is if the content of the paper became worth reading.
Pinhooker, that's not what they are about any more.
As Motley points out, the commercial objective is to sell the capacity to influence the readership to advertisers who want our money, and that requires a newspaper which perpetuates those advertisers' PR agendas, rather than anything resembling the truth
This is why Millington and his cronies don't like this forum. The truth they choose not to report does get told here, requiring them either to marginalise the people telling it as 'crayon pushing' lunatics, or stare down the fact that as journalists who know something to be true and yet fail to report it, they are as professionally worthless as it is possible to be...
As Motley points out, the commercial objective is to sell the capacity to influence the readership to advertisers who want our money, and that requires a newspaper which perpetuates those advertisers' PR agendas, rather than anything resembling the truth
This is why Millington and his cronies don't like this forum. The truth they choose not to report does get told here, requiring them either to marginalise the people telling it as 'crayon pushing' lunatics, or stare down the fact that as journalists who know something to be true and yet fail to report it, they are as professionally worthless as it is possible to be...
Paul Haigh knew the score and had enough professional integrity to quit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/mar/20/racing-post-paul-haigh-resignation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/mar/20/racing-post-paul-haigh-resignation
Apols - should have posted the article too.....
Oliver Luft
guardian.co.uk, Friday 20 March 2009 08.50 GMT
The Racing Post's most senior journalist has fired a blistering salvo as he quits the paper after 23 years, claiming it has become little more than a "cheerleading tip sheet" whose agenda is being dictated by bookmakers.
Paul Haigh, who joined the Racing Post prior to launch in 1986, wrote to the chief executive and editor-in-chief, Alan Byrne, earlier this month giving notice of his decision to terminate his freelance contract, saying he had become "ashamed" of writing for the paper, MediaGuardian.co.uk can reveal.
"I've tried very hard to persuade myself I'm wrong, but I've been convinced for a while now that the paper is nothing but a cheerleading tip sheet," he wrote in his resignation letter.
The letter also suggested the Post "might restore some credibility" if it refused occasionally to "acquiesce to your advertisers' wishes". He went on to suggest that "by pointing to '**** in the system' the paper might even win the respect of new readers and so reverse its decline in circulation".
One of the most experienced racing journalists in the UK, Haigh has been working for the paper as a contracted freelance since 1993, prior to which he was a staff member. He has also contributed to a raft of other national newspapers. He told MediaGuardian.co.uk that suggestions by him for the paper to run a series on racing corruption and whether the fears about it were justified were ignored by management.
"The agenda of Britain's only racing/sports newspaper is now being dictated entirely by its main advertisers," he said.
"Almost all the racing media is now under the effective editorial control of the bookmakers either because bookmaker advertising is essential to their survival, or because other racing correspondents have been made aware of, er, the side on which their bread is buttered."
After Haigh gave notice, he said he had been told that he would not be required to write anything else for the title, even though he had a three-month notice period. He added that he had engaged his solicitor over a management threat to withhold some remaining pay due to him.
Byrne, a former Racing Post editor, teamed up with Irish private equity interests to buy the Racing Post from Trinity Mirror in 2007 for £170m.
At the time Byrne said he was confident of reversing the paper's declining circulation and making more out of its website, but print sales continue to fall.
According to the latest figures from the Audit Bureau of Circulations the morning paper averaged sales of 55,054 in February, down from a high of 93,551 in March, 2005.
"Paul's claims are without foundation and he knows it," said the Racing Post editor, Bruce Millington.
"We have had broadly the same editorial policy ever since we started nearly 23 years ago, and as Paul has worked for us throughout that period, it is rather odd that he suddenly feels this way.
"It's disappointing that he has delivered this slur not just on the paper but also on his colleagues.
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
Oliver Luft
guardian.co.uk, Friday 20 March 2009 08.50 GMT
The Racing Post's most senior journalist has fired a blistering salvo as he quits the paper after 23 years, claiming it has become little more than a "cheerleading tip sheet" whose agenda is being dictated by bookmakers.
Paul Haigh, who joined the Racing Post prior to launch in 1986, wrote to the chief executive and editor-in-chief, Alan Byrne, earlier this month giving notice of his decision to terminate his freelance contract, saying he had become "ashamed" of writing for the paper, MediaGuardian.co.uk can reveal.
"I've tried very hard to persuade myself I'm wrong, but I've been convinced for a while now that the paper is nothing but a cheerleading tip sheet," he wrote in his resignation letter.
The letter also suggested the Post "might restore some credibility" if it refused occasionally to "acquiesce to your advertisers' wishes". He went on to suggest that "by pointing to '**** in the system' the paper might even win the respect of new readers and so reverse its decline in circulation".
One of the most experienced racing journalists in the UK, Haigh has been working for the paper as a contracted freelance since 1993, prior to which he was a staff member. He has also contributed to a raft of other national newspapers. He told MediaGuardian.co.uk that suggestions by him for the paper to run a series on racing corruption and whether the fears about it were justified were ignored by management.
"The agenda of Britain's only racing/sports newspaper is now being dictated entirely by its main advertisers," he said.
"Almost all the racing media is now under the effective editorial control of the bookmakers either because bookmaker advertising is essential to their survival, or because other racing correspondents have been made aware of, er, the side on which their bread is buttered."
After Haigh gave notice, he said he had been told that he would not be required to write anything else for the title, even though he had a three-month notice period. He added that he had engaged his solicitor over a management threat to withhold some remaining pay due to him.
Byrne, a former Racing Post editor, teamed up with Irish private equity interests to buy the Racing Post from Trinity Mirror in 2007 for £170m.
At the time Byrne said he was confident of reversing the paper's declining circulation and making more out of its website, but print sales continue to fall.
According to the latest figures from the Audit Bureau of Circulations the morning paper averaged sales of 55,054 in February, down from a high of 93,551 in March, 2005.
"Paul's claims are without foundation and he knows it," said the Racing Post editor, Bruce Millington.
"We have had broadly the same editorial policy ever since we started nearly 23 years ago, and as Paul has worked for us throughout that period, it is rather odd that he suddenly feels this way.
"It's disappointing that he has delivered this slur not just on the paper but also on his colleagues.
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
I cried laughing at that line
I cried laughing at that line
'We have had broadly the same editorial policy ever since we started nearly 23 years ago'
at Millybags - I bet previous editors would beg to differ...
at Millybags - I bet previous editors would beg to differ...
The Post is, let's be honest, a remarkable paper. If you showed it to a Sporting Life (or Racing Post) reader from the 1990s, he would think he had died and gone to heaven. --- Ramruma.
So true, so true.
The technology of the last 25 years makes it possible to sort winners without having to turn over page after page of Raceform.
Everything in one paper. We never had it so good. Augur, Man On The Spot, f**k em.
Tom Segal gets more winners in a month than all the Life's tipsters put ogether.
Thank you Bruce and all.
So true, so true.
The technology of the last 25 years makes it possible to sort winners without having to turn over page after page of Raceform.
Everything in one paper. We never had it so good. Augur, Man On The Spot, f**k em.
Tom Segal gets more winners in a month than all the Life's tipsters put ogether.
Thank you Bruce and all.
And remember guys, Bruce cut his teeth on the Sporting Life, so no wonder he has taken the best of the Life and the best of the Post and come up with the World's Number One racing paper.
tilted 19 Mar 12 14:27
"remember - Bruce cut his teeth on the Sporting Life,"
---------------------------------
Yes - On the DOGS DESK.
"remember - Bruce cut his teeth on the Sporting Life,"
---------------------------------
Yes - On the DOGS DESK.
And the greyhound section of the RP is pathetic
Merely stating the truth, tilted.
Something that some others seem unable to face up to.
Something that some others seem unable to face up to.
Dog desk used to have a guy called Bob Betts.
You couldn't make it up.
Lovely guy. Had ginger hair, but a truly lovely bloke.
You couldn't make it up.
Lovely guy. Had ginger hair, but a truly lovely bloke.
Tom Segal gets more winners in a month than all the Life's tipsters put ogether.
Who gives a f**k?
Saddo
Who gives a f**k?
Saddo
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
In case you're reading this Bruce - you're a farce!
In case you're reading this Bruce - you're a farce!
As he has a very very low opinion of the forum, he is unlikely to look in is he.
Not much he wont
Not much he wont
I think the Racing Post used to be a very good paper, especially between its inception and June 1990!!!!!
I feel this mismanagement of Paul Haigh was particularly poor.
And I feel there is far too little hard news and far too much piffle about who is going to win or who is going to run or who is even not going to run, written by a number of ordinary judges.
I feel this mismanagement of Paul Haigh was particularly poor.
And I feel there is far too little hard news and far too much piffle about who is going to win or who is going to run or who is even not going to run, written by a number of ordinary judges.
All you say is true Happy Valley. It's now simply a question of whether anyone will be given the authority and resources to turn it into a proper racing paper again...not just a tabloid promoting the betting industry. Any thoughts?
Your modesty barely becomes you, Happy Valley.
If you read back through this thread - you will see what a crap copy of the Post I was looking at - dated June 8th 1989 -
I must look again to see if you have a line in there.
If you read back through this thread - you will see what a crap copy of the Post I was looking at - dated June 8th 1989 -
I must look again to see if you have a line in there.
Someone on this thread thinks we still live in a "capitalist world".
I used to think I was unlucky because I had no shoes until I met a guy who had no feet. Come on guys the Racing Post paper and website is the best available for followers of racing.
FELTFAIR - It is called a monopoly when there is no competition 
DOUBLED • March 20, 2012 8:56 AM GMT
FELTFAIR - It is called a monopoly when there is no competition
nail....head....hits....the...on....the
FELTFAIR - It is called a monopoly when there is no competition
nail....head....hits....the...on....the
i used to buy both the RP and Sporting Life in the day.i used to buy the weekender.i still use the RP website as i considered it value at £8 per month.now that will become £13 per month as of april 2012,i wont pay it.no talk of that here.the RP needs to take a good look at itself before it implodes.
can i ask people here what they need from a daily paper.what would make you buy it again.i look at daily race form in america and the amount of info on a horse is astounding.we are so deprived of data here its easy to see why most people see it as a bookmaker driven/controlled industry.the less you know the more you lose.we are 20 years behind america in racing data terms.with the RP we are 50 years behind.i cant see that changing in the future.the future is online and a lot of racing data sites are slowly popping up, some better than others.its good to have choices online it would be even better to have those choices in a daily paper.
can i ask people here what they need from a daily paper.what would make you buy it again.i look at daily race form in america and the amount of info on a horse is astounding.we are so deprived of data here its easy to see why most people see it as a bookmaker driven/controlled industry.the less you know the more you lose.we are 20 years behind america in racing data terms.with the RP we are 50 years behind.i cant see that changing in the future.the future is online and a lot of racing data sites are slowly popping up, some better than others.its good to have choices online it would be even better to have those choices in a daily paper.
What the RP should be doing is trying to produce an attractive product consistently that punters will want to buy, and will therefore automatically attract advertisers. Instead, they have become an advertiser driven trade paper which ignores the concerns and complaints of its readership in favour of tubthumping for the bookies.
What Millington fails to grasp is that increasingly punters can do their form study online, so the paper has to be offering something else that punters will be willing to fork out an ever increasing price to buy. If sales fall then so does advertising revenue. When sales fall enough then it will not be worth placing adverts.
What Millington fails to grasp is that increasingly punters can do their form study online, so the paper has to be offering something else that punters will be willing to fork out an ever increasing price to buy. If sales fall then so does advertising revenue. When sales fall enough then it will not be worth placing adverts.
ykickamoocow
can i ask people here what they need from a daily paper.what would make you buy it again.
In all honesty mate nothing , i've simply grown out of the need for anything newsprint & that includes for racing or otherwise , been a full time punter for nearly 5 years now and with the assistance of a betting partner who is a software developer i've everything I will ever need and more.
That said I can understand that some will prefer the more traditional under your arm form of communication but it's not for me anymore.
Good luck today all
can i ask people here what they need from a daily paper.what would make you buy it again.
In all honesty mate nothing , i've simply grown out of the need for anything newsprint & that includes for racing or otherwise , been a full time punter for nearly 5 years now and with the assistance of a betting partner who is a software developer i've everything I will ever need and more.
That said I can understand that some will prefer the more traditional under your arm form of communication but it's not for me anymore.
Good luck today all
the RP does realize that ppl read racing form online.their site is not immune to price hikes.as i quoted earlier a rise of £5 per month on basic package from april.this increase was supposed to kick in just before cheltenham but they had technical difficulties implementing it and have informed me that it will kick in next month.this increase i find more telling than paper increase.i believe all and sundry at RP headquarters realize they are on a sinking ship and the only way forward is online.but they need a lot more info on their racecards to draw me in.
can i ask people here what they need from a daily paper.what would make you buy it again.
I only buy it for a specific feature.
As far as "news" is concerned; daily papers are by definition out of date.
Internet, news channels etc.beat them to it.
Thirty years ago I might have picked up the Life to read Trainer A has died, Jockey B has retired, C is a non runner, but in this age you find out almost instantly not the next day.
Those papers that are not declining as fast as others have regular supplements etc.
Online is the way forward.
I only buy it for a specific feature.
As far as "news" is concerned; daily papers are by definition out of date.
Internet, news channels etc.beat them to it.
Thirty years ago I might have picked up the Life to read Trainer A has died, Jockey B has retired, C is a non runner, but in this age you find out almost instantly not the next day.
Those papers that are not declining as fast as others have regular supplements etc.
Online is the way forward.
we are so deprived of data here its easy to see why most people see it as a bookmaker driven/controlled industry.the less you know the more you lose.we are 20 years behind america in racing data terms.with the RP we are 50 years behind
Absolutely spot on.
I've been having a read through some old racing books recently, and there was a paragraph that has stuck in my mind in one of Nick Mordin's, where he is discussing the lack of information available to punters;
"I have become a hardened cynic about the people who control horse racing in Britain. From what I can see the largest part of their energies is devoted to resisting change instead of welcoming new ideas. The prospect of significant quantities of new information becoming available to punters is a very remote one"
The book that's from is nearly 20 years old, yet it could quite easily have been written yesterday.
As a monopoly, the Racing Post has no incentive to try and innovate, and offer something new to their customers. Much easier to just keep taking the money from the bookies.
Absolutely spot on.
I've been having a read through some old racing books recently, and there was a paragraph that has stuck in my mind in one of Nick Mordin's, where he is discussing the lack of information available to punters;
"I have become a hardened cynic about the people who control horse racing in Britain. From what I can see the largest part of their energies is devoted to resisting change instead of welcoming new ideas. The prospect of significant quantities of new information becoming available to punters is a very remote one"
The book that's from is nearly 20 years old, yet it could quite easily have been written yesterday.
As a monopoly, the Racing Post has no incentive to try and innovate, and offer something new to their customers. Much easier to just keep taking the money from the bookies.
Birchy again today, when I see that image of him I get urges to become violent
How does Birchy combine two jobs ? That of a bluffer on an alleged "Racing Daily" and Ben Mitchell on Eastenders...He is a far better Actor on the Rancid Post....
Not forgetting the RFO with tales of winning bets with SJ, WH, 365, accommodated with no problem.
The other day he got £350 at 11-4 with Stan James.
He's either a major league loser, or there are different rules for Racing Post journalists than there are for the rest of us....
He's either a major league loser, or there are different rules for Racing Post journalists than there are for the rest of us....
£150 each-way at 13/2 with WH and 365, and £400 at 5/4 with SJ this week.
Actually reporting these bets, rather than keeping quiet, only goes to show how totally out of touch they are with what it's like for the rest of us...
Fantasy World.Plus Birchy has still got his earnings as Ben in Eastenders...Happy Days....
I haven't bought the RP for over two years, even though I used to be a full-timer.
I stopped buying as the reporting of racing no longer bore much resemblance to what was actually going on.
Heaven knows we need some campaigning journalists to direct some verbal missiles at the incompetent BHA. They also need to represent racegoers and punters in the way the sport is presented and to stand up for them about bookmaking sharp practices.
I assume none of this is happening.
I stopped buying as the reporting of racing no longer bore much resemblance to what was actually going on.
Heaven knows we need some campaigning journalists to direct some verbal missiles at the incompetent BHA. They also need to represent racegoers and punters in the way the sport is presented and to stand up for them about bookmaking sharp practices.
I assume none of this is happening.
I haven't bought the RP for over two years, even though I used to be a full-timer.
I stopped buying as the reporting of racing no longer bore much resemblance to what was actually going on.
Heaven knows we need some campaigning journalists to direct some verbal missiles at the incompetent BHA. They also need to represent racegoers and punters in the way the sport is presented and to stand up for them about bookmaking sharp practices.
I assume none of this is happening.
I stopped buying as the reporting of racing no longer bore much resemblance to what was actually going on.
Heaven knows we need some campaigning journalists to direct some verbal missiles at the incompetent BHA. They also need to represent racegoers and punters in the way the sport is presented and to stand up for them about bookmaking sharp practices.
I assume none of this is happening.
Of course it is...........
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
"The Racing Post has always stood up for the punter and will continue to do so. To suggest our agenda is dictated by bookmakers is absurd and untrue."
I don't mind Millington myself. Seems a bit sensitive with getting threads pulled from here , though with this one lasting a record time maybe he doesn't care anymore or no longer looks in.
Even his column is ok by me. He writes some nonsense from time to time but at least he has an opinion.
I stopped buying it regulary years ago but i had not noticed a decline in quality; it was simply that the primary purpose for buying it was for info that was now available online .It is very harsh to criticise any editor of any paper of the last 10 years for huge circulation falls , i no longer buy newspapers at all, used to spend about 5 hours on Sundays reading them
. Am suprised none of the nationals have gone bust.
Would a Bookie really pull it's Adverts from the RP it they didn't like the editorial content
Doubt It, so i can't see Millington worrying about that. It would be good to see articles about FOBTS and Bookmaker's restrictions on winners and these don't appear it seems . But is that because they are worried about negative publicity for Bookies or for negative stories about Gambling generally, as the more people turned away from Gambling the fewer will be buying the RP.
I'd like them to bin the Tipping Line Ads or at least require a P&L for each tipster to be displayed, and maybe this lost revenue could be made up buy more readers for quality articles that could take up the space, but i doubt that.
I don't believe there was some lost Golden Era of either the RP or the Sporting Life . In terms of style and quality the RP seems much the same as it ever was , in good and bad points. The Life from what i recall of the last 10 years it was around, was never any better than The Post.
Even his column is ok by me. He writes some nonsense from time to time but at least he has an opinion.
I stopped buying it regulary years ago but i had not noticed a decline in quality; it was simply that the primary purpose for buying it was for info that was now available online .It is very harsh to criticise any editor of any paper of the last 10 years for huge circulation falls , i no longer buy newspapers at all, used to spend about 5 hours on Sundays reading them
. Am suprised none of the nationals have gone bust.Would a Bookie really pull it's Adverts from the RP it they didn't like the editorial content
Doubt It, so i can't see Millington worrying about that. It would be good to see articles about FOBTS and Bookmaker's restrictions on winners and these don't appear it seems . But is that because they are worried about negative publicity for Bookies or for negative stories about Gambling generally, as the more people turned away from Gambling the fewer will be buying the RP.I'd like them to bin the Tipping Line Ads or at least require a P&L for each tipster to be displayed, and maybe this lost revenue could be made up buy more readers for quality articles that could take up the space, but i doubt that.
I don't believe there was some lost Golden Era of either the RP or the Sporting Life . In terms of style and quality the RP seems much the same as it ever was , in good and bad points. The Life from what i recall of the last 10 years it was around, was never any better than The Post.
i remember the high you used to get when you discovered the horse you fancied was also tipped by man on the spot..regardless of whoever the particular man on the spot might have been
onlooker - my immodesty is only exceeded by your bias against the RPost. RPost used to be vgd throughout the paper. I don't think that is the case now. Now there are just a few good operators and the rest offer a lot of dross and it seems you can keep on tipping up sh!te, or missing stories, and no one cares.
tobermory - bookies sometimes pull ads, i remember an innocuous RPost story which had VChandler spitting blood and causing the ad dept to get their knickers in a twist
overall my criticism of the RPost is that these days it is just like a massive tipping sheet, mainly tipping sh!te, many of the feature writers are not good enough (Haigh sorely missed) and very little hard news
tobermory - bookies sometimes pull ads, i remember an innocuous RPost story which had VChandler spitting blood and causing the ad dept to get their knickers in a twist
overall my criticism of the RPost is that these days it is just like a massive tipping sheet, mainly tipping sh!te, many of the feature writers are not good enough (Haigh sorely missed) and very little hard news
ramruna - vgd point about the lack of news sense and the front page all too often looking like front page of magazine
i also firmly agree with the poster who says the sports section was so much better when Derek McGovern was in charge. He, Phil Thomas and Trevor Harris were very good operators indeed.
But as I say immediately above, there was such strength in depth throughout all depts, now there are only a few worth their salt
i also firmly agree with the poster who says the sports section was so much better when Derek McGovern was in charge. He, Phil Thomas and Trevor Harris were very good operators indeed.
But as I say immediately above, there was such strength in depth throughout all depts, now there are only a few worth their salt
Morning, Happy Valley.
Something of an anachronism there - re: the current 'Sports Section' of the Racing Post being poor compared to the days of the Scouser mouth McGovern ....
..... With Bruce having risen to his current elevated editorship - from having been SPORTS EDITOR on the Life - in Sports Betting's infancy.
Something of an anachronism there - re: the current 'Sports Section' of the Racing Post being poor compared to the days of the Scouser mouth McGovern ....
..... With Bruce having risen to his current elevated editorship - from having been SPORTS EDITOR on the Life - in Sports Betting's infancy.
anyone remember the article a.down wrote about betting shops and fobts?
I went into my local shop yesterday to collect on a Cheltenham AP bet (two very rare events!).
While waiting to get paid I glanced through the shop copy of the RP and was pleased to read the following in large type:-
Betfred: Would anyone care if it didn't exist anymore? (or something very close to that)
On closer inspection I was disappointed to realise this was part of an article about betting shop clients reacting to last weeks X-Country Chase
While waiting to get paid I glanced through the shop copy of the RP and was pleased to read the following in large type:-
Betfred: Would anyone care if it didn't exist anymore? (or something very close to that)
On closer inspection I was disappointed to realise this was part of an article about betting shop clients reacting to last weeks X-Country Chase
anyone remember the article a.down wrote about betting shops and fobts?
The one essentially saying "they're just a bit of fun"?
The one essentially saying "they're just a bit of fun"?
http://www.drf.com/news/super-trainers-make-game-harder-ever
The above is a link to an article written by Andrew Bayer from America's best racing daily, "The Daily Racing Form".
Could you imagine one of Brucies journalist writing a piece like that?, in fact they'd break out in a cold sweat even contemplating it.
Lord knows there is plenty of evidence that the super trainer has infiltrated this side of the Atlantic as well.
Check the link out its brutal in its honesty.
The above is a link to an article written by Andrew Bayer from America's best racing daily, "The Daily Racing Form".
Could you imagine one of Brucies journalist writing a piece like that?, in fact they'd break out in a cold sweat even contemplating it.
Lord knows there is plenty of evidence that the super trainer has infiltrated this side of the Atlantic as well.
Check the link out its brutal in its honesty.
I have never been a great fan of poor old Bruce but come on!!! its a few coppers for goodness sake, it is not a big deal.
Andy Beyer is not only much smarter than anyone on the RP, but he's also far more interesting to read.
It is €2.60 on weekdays, it is €2.80 on weekend. The paper is printed every day of the year bar Christmas Day as far as i can see so it near would cost €1,000 a year to buy it. It is a pile of crap so for €2.60 i think it's fair for people to expect and want a better trade paper.
A few coppers, it may be a few coppers for you but it may not be a few coppers for some who love the game and cannot afford the luxury of spending €1,000 of their yearly income on it. As somebody pointed out what about the older generation who find it tough to use computers and are on a pension, the paper could be their only way of finding about about their hobby/passion and upping the paper constantly while the quality drops constantly is not really right now is it?
A few coppers, it may be a few coppers for you but it may not be a few coppers for some who love the game and cannot afford the luxury of spending €1,000 of their yearly income on it. As somebody pointed out what about the older generation who find it tough to use computers and are on a pension, the paper could be their only way of finding about about their hobby/passion and upping the paper constantly while the quality drops constantly is not really right now is it?
great piece silver,ten years old too...bayer is worth listening too,he changed the face of hcapping in america.not many journos here can say that.the day sectional timing is brought in here for good will be the day all punters will understand how the speed in a race is key.i cant even find a furlong marker on most british courses to hand time off.watching kempton u only see the 4 3 2 1 furlong markers..dont know where the 5 6 7 ones are.the minute they go out the far side u are lost.complete joke.as for NH courses..no markers visible until the end of races.if they r on courses they are well back from rails.why we are denied sectional timing,i can guess why.knowing a horse has gone off to fast makes it a lot easier to lay it early.hence the reason we wil never see it.it may just help us to make a few quid.
Beyer didn't actually use the word ch-eat, but he left you in no doubt as to what he's implying, goes to show you can write hard hitting pieces without leaving yourself open to some bullying legal challenge.
No fear of any of the gutless journalists over here writing a hard hitting piece like that, it would be like comparing a feather duster to a battering ram lo and behold they might be denied some banal post race trainer quote!.
No fear of any of the gutless journalists over here writing a hard hitting piece like that, it would be like comparing a feather duster to a battering ram lo and behold they might be denied some banal post race trainer quote!.
The problem I have with the RP journalists is their incestuous relationship with top trainers and jockeys. They all seem to live in fear of upsetting them. Why are trainers not criticised for running horses when they are clearly not ready, on ground they cannot handle and jockeys for riding ill judged races? This is not so in world of football where managers and players are regularly criticised for bad tactics or poor games.
It happens in the racing world every day but reporters are just too scared to say anything. I simply cannot understand why.
It happens in the racing world every day but reporters are just too scared to say anything. I simply cannot understand why.
Brigust, they do be nearly beside themselves in their haste to be first in line with the usually way OTT plaudits everytime a top trainer/jockey have a big race winner, "superb training performance", "exquisite ride" blah blah blah, the horse barely gets a mention (unless of course its a public fav like Kauto) when in fact it was the horse who just won the race.
Jobs for the boys and a job for life even if you're totally incompetent at your job like at least 95% of the RP tipster and that includes the sports section.
Jobs for the boys and a job for life even if you're totally incompetent at your job like at least 95% of the RP tipster and that includes the sports section.
spot on brigust,my one abiding memory of the kauto star public schooling session is a certain alan lee in the midst of the nicholls camp and daryl jacob poking him in the ribs with his whip.all pally pally,a certain mr dench seems to close to a lot of jockeys and trainers also..american racing is not run by bookies and actually encourages ppl to win.their system is second to none..it will not be equalled in this country as long as the tote is owned by a bookie.wat a travesty that is.even when i say it THE TOTE IS OWNED BY A BOOKIE i still cant believe it.when that happened i lost all hope for the future of british racing.everyone seems to be licking everyone elses ass.the amount of arrogance within the racing industry is now unheralded in modern times.from top to bottom,from trainers to jockeys to journos to bookies,the only arrogance i like within racing is a horses one.
when Denman retired there wasnt one mention of the breeder of the horse.this i found unbelievable.so well done to the flynns in the small town of fermoy,co cork, who breed a champ.i write what no other racing journo should of wrote.
Its even worse in Ireland moocow except they depend mostly on goverment hand outs.
Won't be long now when the weather improves before Alan Lee is playing cricket with all the trainers in Lambourn and Newmarket on a Sunday morning, while engaging in small talk as to how his horses in training will fare out this year!.
And this guy gets a regular slot on the Sunday Forum on ATR?, don't expect anything hard hitting from the ace gravy trainer Lee, everything usually has an apologetic tone to it!.
Won't be long now when the weather improves before Alan Lee is playing cricket with all the trainers in Lambourn and Newmarket on a Sunday morning, while engaging in small talk as to how his horses in training will fare out this year!.
And this guy gets a regular slot on the Sunday Forum on ATR?, don't expect anything hard hitting from the ace gravy trainer Lee, everything usually has an apologetic tone to it!.
And then.to compound the issue, a trainer will say some time after a horsehas run that 'in hindsight I shouldn't have run it' or a jockey the next time the horse runs will say 'I sat a bit too far out of my ground' etc. Some of us knew at the time but the journalists never pick it up. They cannot be that incompetent just afraid of losing the cosy relationships they have.
http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-slots-racing-marriage-rocks
i posted this on another thread..
i posted this on another thread..
spot on brigust,my one abiding memory of the kauto star public schooling session is a certain alan lee in the midst of the nicholls camp and daryl jacob poking him in the ribs with his whip.all pally pally
Not forgetting Alistair Down's ludicrous puff piece on Nicholls in his Saturday column, a couple of days after the news came out about the fall...followed by a fawning interview on C4 that afternoon.
Not forgetting Alistair Down's ludicrous puff piece on Nicholls in his Saturday column, a couple of days after the news came out about the fall...followed by a fawning interview on C4 that afternoon.
nicholls has the racing media by the balls..well with master minded,denman and now kauto gone whats left...how can u replace horses like that.its downhill from now on in...i cant even see ruby riding for nicholls in the future.when big bucks retires thats it for ruby i would think.
You could quite comfortably get 10k on ebay from a racing fan for the opportunity to go to the Nicholls yard a couple of weeks before the Festival to watch his horses work and discuss their Cheltenham prospects, followed by a champagne breakfast.
The media get paid to do this.
Well, as long as they don't rock any boats...
The media get paid to do this.
Well, as long as they don't rock any boats...
There appears to be some misunderstanding on here re what a journalist can or cannot write about in a racing newspaper.
It (a) has to be a presumedly factual news report or feature article backed up by quotes from those involved or (b) an opinion piece about how horses might perform in any given race.
The problem with the latter is that so many of the so-called journalists write from a platform based on past performances, i.e. data which experience punters already have at their disposal.
Once upon a time, newspapers tended to employ correspondents with a background or contacts in the racing industry. Excellent examples of this were Peter O'Sullevan, Charlie Benson (a close friend of Robert Sangster) and Richard Baelein ( a mate several top trainers including Ryan Price, Geoff Lewis and Ron Smythe).
Those days, of course, are long forgotten
The current generation of newspaper hacks tend to have a media studies background with little or no personal contact with influential figures from the racing world.
The overall effect is noticeable in their daily offerings. Most of it pointless, an opinion not much better than anyone else.
Yet editors still have to publish something to keep the dream alive. When the reader finally realises it's pointless shelling out around £700 per year only to feel a sense of disappointment, then they stop buying. The situation in the which the Racing Post currently finds itself.
A personal feeling is that the only way of halting the decline, is to improve the level of content so that knowledgeable racing fans will recognise that they are missing something.
But how the Post's management will manage to unearth some fresh blood who actually have an insight into the game and also have a reasonable degree of journalistic ability, is anybody's guess. Over to you Mr Millington.
It (a) has to be a presumedly factual news report or feature article backed up by quotes from those involved or (b) an opinion piece about how horses might perform in any given race.
The problem with the latter is that so many of the so-called journalists write from a platform based on past performances, i.e. data which experience punters already have at their disposal.
Once upon a time, newspapers tended to employ correspondents with a background or contacts in the racing industry. Excellent examples of this were Peter O'Sullevan, Charlie Benson (a close friend of Robert Sangster) and Richard Baelein ( a mate several top trainers including Ryan Price, Geoff Lewis and Ron Smythe).
Those days, of course, are long forgotten
The current generation of newspaper hacks tend to have a media studies background with little or no personal contact with influential figures from the racing world.
The overall effect is noticeable in their daily offerings. Most of it pointless, an opinion not much better than anyone else.
Yet editors still have to publish something to keep the dream alive. When the reader finally realises it's pointless shelling out around £700 per year only to feel a sense of disappointment, then they stop buying. The situation in the which the Racing Post currently finds itself.
A personal feeling is that the only way of halting the decline, is to improve the level of content so that knowledgeable racing fans will recognise that they are missing something.
But how the Post's management will manage to unearth some fresh blood who actually have an insight into the game and also have a reasonable degree of journalistic ability, is anybody's guess. Over to you Mr Millington.
^
Well - If LEE MOTTERSHEAD is an example of -
"fresh blood who actually have an insight into the game and also have a reasonable degree of journalistic ability."
Then they might as well close the Racing Post down tomorrow.
Well - If LEE MOTTERSHEAD is an example of -
"fresh blood who actually have an insight into the game and also have a reasonable degree of journalistic ability."
Then they might as well close the Racing Post down tomorrow.
This is why I praise Lydia Hislop, whether you agree with her or not she at least pushes the point, as she did with Nicholls over Kauto's fall
Once upon a time, newspapers tended to employ correspondents with a background or contacts in the racing industry. Excellent examples of this were Peter O'Sullevan, Charlie Benson (a close friend of Robert Sangster) and Richard Baelein ( a mate several top trainers including Ryan Price, Geoff Lewis and Ron Smythe).
Depends what you want from a racing journalists, who wants journalists/correspondents with close links to racing like the above?, hardly going to give you any valuable insight or confront controversy head on in the closed shop that is racings inner circle, this cozy relationship is still rife within racing journalism today, the aforementioned Alan Lee a prime example.
Nothing has changed for years, punters still get a raw deal from people who are basically employed to report the sport for the general public, even the braver ones like Steve Mellish, Greg Wood, the admirable Lydia Hislop, Alan Sweetman and Brian O'Connor in Ireland, barely poke their heads above the parapet and when they do its usually sporadic and pretty lightweight stuff, mere subtle hints than actual confrontation.
A real racing journalist would stand up to the bullying natives and confront the spineless incestuous regulation that permeates throughout this sport in Britain and Ireland.
Depends what you want from a racing journalists, who wants journalists/correspondents with close links to racing like the above?, hardly going to give you any valuable insight or confront controversy head on in the closed shop that is racings inner circle, this cozy relationship is still rife within racing journalism today, the aforementioned Alan Lee a prime example.
Nothing has changed for years, punters still get a raw deal from people who are basically employed to report the sport for the general public, even the braver ones like Steve Mellish, Greg Wood, the admirable Lydia Hislop, Alan Sweetman and Brian O'Connor in Ireland, barely poke their heads above the parapet and when they do its usually sporadic and pretty lightweight stuff, mere subtle hints than actual confrontation.
A real racing journalist would stand up to the bullying natives and confront the spineless incestuous regulation that permeates throughout this sport in Britain and Ireland.
All those feeling nostalgic for the media of the past may not have taken into account the enormous change in attitudes that the BHA's GPT deal and the media's commercial alliances with the bookmaking industry have provoked.
In the past, it was bookmaker against punter, with the media and the Establishment in the middle.
Now, the bookmaking industry, the BHA, the racecourses, and every single broadcast or print media platform in this industry, broadly have one common commercial agenda - to remove punters' money as quickly and efficiently as possible.
We aren't ever going to get the media we want any more - we are going to get the media that best facilitates this objective...
In the past, it was bookmaker against punter, with the media and the Establishment in the middle.
Now, the bookmaking industry, the BHA, the racecourses, and every single broadcast or print media platform in this industry, broadly have one common commercial agenda - to remove punters' money as quickly and efficiently as possible.
We aren't ever going to get the media we want any more - we are going to get the media that best facilitates this objective...
Silvergreaser. Even a "real racing journalists" are ineffectual unless they have some connection within the heart of racing.
The names you mention are, without disrespect to any of them, pundits who do little more than spin their own opinions.
If old timers like Charles Benson wrote about one of Barry Hills or Jeremy Hindley's horses, then it was done in such away not to cause trouble between the trainer and owners, but to give readers an insight into the likely future performances of the horses in question.
The same applied to Michael Seely and Charlie Fawcus (**** Hern), Michael Phillips (Peter Walwyn),Richard Baerlein (Ron Smyth and Geoff Lewis)etc, etc.
My view is that punters could do with more of the old-style operators who offerings were based on something more than whim.
Not just to rely on the well meaning meanderings of self-styled journalists who appear have taken over in both the printed word and television media in this day and age.
The names you mention are, without disrespect to any of them, pundits who do little more than spin their own opinions.
If old timers like Charles Benson wrote about one of Barry Hills or Jeremy Hindley's horses, then it was done in such away not to cause trouble between the trainer and owners, but to give readers an insight into the likely future performances of the horses in question.
The same applied to Michael Seely and Charlie Fawcus (**** Hern), Michael Phillips (Peter Walwyn),Richard Baerlein (Ron Smyth and Geoff Lewis)etc, etc.
My view is that punters could do with more of the old-style operators who offerings were based on something more than whim.
Not just to rely on the well meaning meanderings of self-styled journalists who appear have taken over in both the printed word and television media in this day and age.
Millhouse: I feel, sadly, you are probably correct with your summing up of things.
why the RP dont have a gallops correspondent in newmarket to report on how horses are working is beyond me.like how hard would that be.worksheets should be made available to the public like in other countries.i am more interested in how horses work and over what distance and what time than anything else.i would love to see the introduction of stall trials like in australia over 4furlongs.but alas i am only dreaming.
Loved 13. " How does Racing Post Pricewise columnist Tom Segal do it and why dd I not back his tips? I'm a clown" You are Bruce and why did you not back his tips when you as a loser can get a bet on with any Bookmaker in the country ?
Bought a copy of the Weekender yesterday, the first time in ages. What a dull read, full of huge photos and space filling articles.
Worse than that, The Pinhooker, there's now a thoroughly cynical column that exists ONLY to persuade people to phone a telephone tipping line of the same name...
i am sure all and sundry at RP headquarters are on pricewise horses good and early and trading out before the off.how easy it must be to have this info before it goes to print.gravy gravy choo choo
Worse than that, The Pinhooker, there's now a thoroughly cynical column that exists ONLY to persuade people to phone a telephone tipping line of the same name...
There's more than one now.
There's more than one now.
I recall not that long ago that one of the tipsters put down as their punting low, " being dragged around the shops on a Saturday afternoon " that sums it up
Deptford..When Birchy states that he had no bets at the Festival that just about sums up the whole rancid organ.
good morning Onlooker, I'm not entirely sure I catch your meaning re Derek (McGovern), who I always found witty rather than mouthy, and Bruce Millington. I think you're saying Millington is superior in which case I'll have Derek any day of the week. I remember when they used to have pops at each other in their columns and Derek used to best Millington in a significant majority of cases and sometimes with great hilarity. Very amusing guy, Derek - just need to limit his tipping to The Open.
Thinking about signing up for RP ultimate and wondering if they give pedigree comments? I find it really helps and probably worth paying for. Do they include sales data ?
Any ideas mrcombustible, onlooker, or any other members ?
Any ideas mrcombustible, onlooker, or any other members ?
These are the pedigree comments for Bahrain Pride tomorrow W3.55
125,000gns F, 300,000gns 2yo; first foal; dam unraced half-sister to 7f 2yo Listed winner Temps Au Temps and Group-placed 6f 2yo winner After out of useful 7f-1m2f winner
Sales Tab
DATE SALE NAME LOT VENDOR PURCHASER PRICE
25Jun20
Tatts Craven Breeze-Up (2yo) 71 From Church Farm & Horse Park Stud, Ireland Stroud Coleman Bloodstock 300,000 GNS
25Nov19
Tatts December (yearlings) 148 From The Castlebridge Consignment Withdrawn —
16Oct19
Tatts Oct Book 2 (yearlings) 1117 From Longview Stud Not Sold 145,000 GNS
30Nov18
Tatts December (foals) 869 From Salcey Forest Stud Dromoland Farm 125,000 GNS
Bets are accepted in accordance with the operator's rules.
125,000gns F, 300,000gns 2yo; first foal; dam unraced half-sister to 7f 2yo Listed winner Temps Au Temps and Group-placed 6f 2yo winner After out of useful 7f-1m2f winner
Sales Tab
DATE SALE NAME LOT VENDOR PURCHASER PRICE
25Jun20
Tatts Craven Breeze-Up (2yo) 71 From Church Farm & Horse Park Stud, Ireland Stroud Coleman Bloodstock 300,000 GNS
25Nov19
Tatts December (yearlings) 148 From The Castlebridge Consignment Withdrawn —
16Oct19
Tatts Oct Book 2 (yearlings) 1117 From Longview Stud Not Sold 145,000 GNS
30Nov18
Tatts December (foals) 869 From Salcey Forest Stud Dromoland Farm 125,000 GNS
Bets are accepted in accordance with the operator's rules.
Bahrain is a first foal but grand dam produced
Jumps
HORSE SIRE WINS RUNS % TRAINER TOTAL EARNINGS BEST RPR
Temps Au Temps (IRE) 2008g
Invincible Spirit (IRE) 7.4f 2 6 33 0 P Cottin £56,500 2m2f 132
Flat
HORSE SIRE WINS RUNS % TRAINER TOTAL EARNINGS BEST RPR
Temps Au Temps (IRE) 2008g
Invincible Spirit (IRE) 7.4f 2 10 20 2 M Delzangles £90,805 1m 108
After (IRE) 2009m
Danehill Dancer (IRE) 8.4f 1 18 6 4 A P O'Brien £69,045 1m 108
Gussy Goose (IRE) 2012m
Danehill Dancer (IRE) 8.4f 2 14 14 3 David Wachman £21,711 1m 93
Immortalised (GB) 2014h
Frankel (GB) 10.6f 3 25 12 5 K R Burke £76,858 1m3f 84
Super Jo (IRE) 2007g
Pivotal (GB) 8f 1 7 14 0 Robert Collet £12,688 1m1f 82
The Weed Machine (IRE) 2017g
Kodiac (GB) 7.1f 0 4 0 2 Mark Johnston £1,174 7f 77
Shem (IRE) 2018c
Kodiac (GB) 7.1f 0 2 0 1 Mark Johnston £972 6f 73
Saint Mac (GB) 2015g
Nathaniel (IRE) 12f 0 7 0 3 Michael Appleby £2,802 1m4f 69
Jumps
HORSE SIRE WINS RUNS % TRAINER TOTAL EARNINGS BEST RPR
Temps Au Temps (IRE) 2008g
Invincible Spirit (IRE) 7.4f 2 6 33 0 P Cottin £56,500 2m2f 132
Flat
HORSE SIRE WINS RUNS % TRAINER TOTAL EARNINGS BEST RPR
Temps Au Temps (IRE) 2008g
Invincible Spirit (IRE) 7.4f 2 10 20 2 M Delzangles £90,805 1m 108
After (IRE) 2009m
Danehill Dancer (IRE) 8.4f 1 18 6 4 A P O'Brien £69,045 1m 108
Gussy Goose (IRE) 2012m
Danehill Dancer (IRE) 8.4f 2 14 14 3 David Wachman £21,711 1m 93
Immortalised (GB) 2014h
Frankel (GB) 10.6f 3 25 12 5 K R Burke £76,858 1m3f 84
Super Jo (IRE) 2007g
Pivotal (GB) 8f 1 7 14 0 Robert Collet £12,688 1m1f 82
The Weed Machine (IRE) 2017g
Kodiac (GB) 7.1f 0 4 0 2 Mark Johnston £1,174 7f 77
Shem (IRE) 2018c
Kodiac (GB) 7.1f 0 2 0 1 Mark Johnston £972 6f 73
Saint Mac (GB) 2015g
Nathaniel (IRE) 12f 0 7 0 3 Michael Appleby £2,802 1m4f 69
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539