William Hills Are A Disgrace

a bloke has asked Miller on twitter and she gives a condescending response (as usual) and then says she is only fairly certain.

The World Hurdle is not classed as ante-post on the Hills site either.

Fairly certain which way, cadizza ? R4 or not ?

Oh dear!!! William Hill will be turning in his grave. another shoot themselves in the foot from hills PR team

John:

R4 on these offers your offering on a ante post market??

Miller:

No Sir, why on earth would you think that? Ante-post is ante-post. Fairly certain we can't take a R4 until after final decs.

It would appear people would think that because you had it on your screens today Miss Miller but as per usual Hills cannot accept that they made an error.

thought so !!! rule 4 applies only after final decs. The hills shop staff are only good at emptying machines

Somebody asked Kate Miller on twitter. She's put it to bed there. There's no such thing as rule 4 before final declarations. If you've got 6/1 on Oscar Whiskey, it can't be adjusted by rule 4.

Darren Williams ‏ @Wills009
@racingkate - R4 on these offers your offering on a ante post market??

William Hill ‏ @racingkate
@Wills009 - No Sir, why on earth would you think that? Ante-post is ante-post. Fairly certain we can't take a R4 until after final decs.

It is the way she replies to the bloke Tucho - no need for her manner. I see she used to work in "late payment collection" for Amex - a role I am certain she will of loved!

Sounds extremely simple but this firm haven't their minds made up.
Non runner = no bet is a concession, all bets should be struck like ante post bets.

What do you gain as a punter ?
Your money back if your selection doesn't run.
No reduction in your price or place term if one or more other runners don;t turn up.

What do you lose as a punter ?
The best odds guranteed concession won't apply until the final decs(all bar 1 firm i think)
Any further enhancement of the place terms won't apply to your bet, 4th in the bumper, 5th in the county e.t.c

Hi - i would just like to reply to the PaddyPower backer that when i tried to get £30 on DARROUN @ 16/1 today(pricewise selection)i was offered £3.18 @ 16/1 whereas i got £60 @ 16/1 - go figure
Cheers

anti post rules NO R4 DEDUCTIONS .if firms decide to give you a concession it does not make any diff. to anti post rules

because frankie you are a plant !! What is the point of a website when you cannot get a bet on !

Non-Runner no bet.Of course there will be a Rule 4.Where do you people come from ? If Hurricane Fly dropped dead tommorrow would you pay out at the full odds ?

Tucho
06 Mar 12 19:33
Joined:
06 Jan 07
| Topic/replies: 1,860 | Blogger: Tucho's blog
Somebody asked Kate Miller on twitter. She's put it to bed there. There's no such thing as rule 4 before final declarations. If you've got 6/1 on Oscar Whiskey, it can't be adjusted by rule 4.

Darren Williams ‏ @Wills009
@racingkate - R4 on these offers your offering on a ante post market??

William Hill ‏ @racingkate
@Wills009 - No Sir, why on earth would you think that? Ante-post is ante-post. Fairly certain we can't take a R4 until after final decs.


Hills PR would argue differently HT

anti post rules NO R4 DEDUCTIONS .if firms decide to give you a concession it does not make any diff. to anti post rules

Oh dear from those of us who have not been able (in our own names !!) to get on with the said rancid firm for many a year good luck !! Of course you mugs (and plants) will only find out if it happens...Kate Miller is what is termed a "munter" and if you agree with what the "lady" has to say then good luck !! Pete D good luck in your career at Hills.....

im mearly pointing out what hills pr have said.

so are you saying she is lying or ignorant of the rules HT

work for hills  LEAVE OFF who would work for any of them nowerdays

William Hill ‏ @racingkate
@Wills009 - No Sir, why on earth would you think that? Ante-post is ante-post. Fairly certain we can't take a R4 until after final decs.

What ?? Does ?? That ?? Mean ??

All I can say is that I hope an odds on jolly is not taken out before final declarations!! And after reading that you will get a Rule 4 after as well !!

so ignorant to the rules

cheers

pete de only people who can spell !!

Munter Kate Miller the official spokesperson is only "fairly certain" that there will be no Rule 4 and some half wit who terms him/herself "the dealer" has a pop at me !! Must be time to retire as I am obviously in the wrong !!

so if you can spell but not have a clue regarding betting your o.k.  yep sounds about right

you should apply H.T

your an angry man HT

where am i having ago, i asked you a question, you replied and i posted what you said Kate Miller was ignorant to the rules.

unless im missing something

for your info THE DEALER was a horse trained by Fred Winter, first winner i backed.

not everyone on here is looking for a fight HTH

have a chilled night

Jewson Novices' Chase 5-1 for Peddelrs Cross

William Hill will be offering STANDOUT odds of 5-1 about Peddlers Cross for the Jewson Novices’ Chase, following confirmation last night that the race is the definite Festival target for Donald McCain’s stable star.

After an outstanding response to their 5/4 and 6/1 offers on Hurricane Fly and Oscar Whisky across Monday and Tuesday, Hills are continuing their countdown to Cheltenham with their ‘Best Prices, Best Horses’ campaign and Wednesday’s super-enhanced price of 5-1 on Peddlers Cross. 

The offer will be available across all channels including retail, phone, internet and mobile from 9:00am on Wednesday morning. 

Kate Miller, spokeswoman for William Hill, said: ‘’Now his target race has been confirmed we are sure our offer on Peddlers Cross will received as brilliantly as our offers from the last two days have been! There has never been a more competitive time for Pre-Cheltenham offers for punters, and everyone should go to the Festival feeling full of cheer!’’

Jewson Novices’ Chase: 9-2 Cristal Bonus, 5-1 Peddlers Cross, 7-1 For Non Stop, Sir Des Champs, 8-1 Al Ferof, Champion Court, Invictus, Solix, 10-1 Call The Police, 12-1 Silviniaco Conti, 16-1 Lambro, Notus De La Tour, 20-1 Blackstairmountain, First Lieutenant, Zaynar, 25-1 BAR  (EW ¼ 1,2,3)

BTW The Jewson is NOT NR/NB

thanks airy

Once and for all it is against Tattersalls Rules to apply Rule 4 to any ante post bet, NRNB or not.

What a confusing shambles.

I worked for these clowns a few years back. Boy are they clueless. Billy must be turning in his grave.

saxon farm I get the feeling this is a fishing trip as the rules are that rule 4 is for final decs only THAT is a FACT

impossible to apply r4's to ante post markets as half the field don't even run.

No r4's never haven been don't know what all the fuss is about

I am sure the manager at the shop or call centre would have verified that it was not a rule 4 as it was officially still Ante Post.

All races that are NRNB appear to not be Ante Post on the Hills site though. I agree with shamardal but you add the above to the fact that it said "rule 4 may apply" on the shop screens today and Miller/Sharpe being a bit light on the answer it does appear this could all of been done a lot clearer and more professionally.

Angel:

It would seem some Managers have said one thing and some the other - probably as they looked at the screens and said "yes, it says it on the screens".

Those that truly believe rule 4 is applicable to the NRNB ante post scenario, really should not be allowed to bet.

agree saxon

As my post of 1757 NO mention of rule 4 on billys site

Cadizza

The managers job is to clarify the info on the screens. I would get the manager to phone LBO data dept. It would take 5 mins.

Aye fair enough angel but let's be honest - 1166 or 1144 whatever it was probably wouldn't know either without asking higher up and if the Heads of PR don't know 100% then the young graduates on Shop Bank ain't going to either etc...

That is the reality.

Plus the Managers are in that position where if they ring up and ask those questions they often get spoken to like crap and told "it's on your screens".

Reality again.

Probably 1144 Cadizza

How do you know

The traders would know. It would be flagged up on their limitations/liabilities messages. PR knobsters would not know unless they prepared for an interview with the media.

Ha ha, fair do's - someone got it wrong though by putting up the rule 4 may apply message.

Bored myself with this now! Just not a fan of the way Miller speaks to people, very condescending as if she knows everything inside out - which appears to be incorrect really!

The managers are certainly belittled until they feel the need to apologise for even phoning HQ. Yes it is the reality as you say.

I guess you are an old work colleague Cadizza. We know how it is at Hills.

sent you a pm

cadizza

you will like this one especially if you worked for billies in the palmers green area of north london.

a billies area manager was caught round the back of a no powers shop opening up all there rubbish bags and rummaging through them to see what sort of bets the powder puff shop takes now thats what i call going beyond the call of duty.

i can understand a manager of a shop putting on the marigolds to shift through the rubbish to find a late/mistimed bet but to get on all fours in the freezing cold because he wants to know what level of business the shop next door is doing is amazing.

i was told his first name is andy and his surname rhymes with a swear word for a ladies vagina.

hey up hills systems down, are they running scared of peddlars already, come one we are forming an orderly line

scoopy on a mission

tell you how incompetent hills top men etc are, last summer think it was the nassau at goodwood, midday was 2nd fav at around 7/2, think aiden obrien had the fav, on the friday before race in morning    backed midday quite large each way at 7/2, mid afternoon fav was withdrawn , midday was shortened like 7/4, went to collect my winnings following day had a shock they paid me on 7/2.  after been paid etc i casually mentioned to cashier , oh wasnt there a rule 4 on the nassau then , should have been, told me no paid everyone whod had a bet prev day at 7/2, i said well there should have been, he phoned ho etc etc and they were adamant that no rule 4 should be taken out. and these settlers paid thousands a week  this was not ante post as final decs was known on thurs , pathetic

ps funny how i mentioned should be rule 4 after been paid out

. and these settlers paid thousands a week 


well if thats the case i had better dust the cobwebs off the old genie and apply for a job with them

I was paid out at 7/2 on a 2/7 shot named Ange Gabriel

I never questioned it though as it was on screen at 7/2. It was 1/3 in the paper in a 4 horse race. Unfortunately for the shop i jumped on.

Don't come gobbing off on here about it, just vote with your feet.

I don't know what the professionals on here bother going into high street shops for anyway, makes em even bigger mugs in my opinion.

when you get paid 7/2 on a 2/7 shot you can only bet at alice in wonderland bookmakers

can't be bothered to read thread, is there a rule 4 or not? ta

Tanya Stevenson has got back to me she contacted WHs they said R4 does not apply. I saw the message on the screen in the shop which displayed R4 may apply confirmed by the manager. I asked her to ask whether it was displayed in error

What a shambles at the end of the day.

goggles

Nothing at all surprises me with them.

Cadizza/AngelGabriel as a matter of interest how many bets did your shops take over the counter per week on average and how many were "empty" or "alien" bets that you had to settle manually ?

Hills used to put up 1/4 odds 1,2,3,4 on their screens for Irish races at tracks where the field size was limited to 14.

They argued this was because their sytem couldn't distinguish between declared runners and reserves therefore it treated a 14 runner race with 3 reserves as a 17 runner race despite that fact that it was always going to be 1/4 odds 1,2,3.

Looks like the same sort of issue here cause by the inflesibility of their systems.

BANKS YOU PRESUNTS IS REQUIRED ON THE BALDY LADDIES THREAD . . . TAR.

On my way.

Looks like the same sort of issue here cause by the inflesibility of their systems.

Looks like Banks has been on the fine claret again !!

The Point is that surely Management at some kind of senior level can anticipate these questions coming up and have answers to them(unless they reckon that a certain percentage of punters will just accept it whatever the conditions) its not good customer service for a major trading week where they are looking to expand the customer base.

Same with the Breeders Cup, neither shop or telephone staff(or customer service) seem sure if they take bets on the American Tote, its every year so why not be pro active and at least have staff clued up on what is going to be a FAQ on a big day.

They seem clueless

Cadizza/AngelGabriel as a matter of interest how many bets did your shops take over the counter per week on average and how many were "empty" or "alien" bets that you had to settle manually ?

Cadizza can answer this one, i never worked in the shops.

Maybe 5% in total, a lot of bets get put in aliens due to Staff not knowing how to translate them in all honesty or being just after kick off times for Football etc...

I spoke to a William Hills Area Manager today on the phone regarding the appeal I have lodged against my dismissal and brought up the issue regarding this Rule 4 calamity - he had no idea what I was asking.

Probably sat in his Office raising a glass to another suicide due to the FOBT's.

They will never admit when they are wrong these people at William Hill - Miller has been made to look an absolute idiot on twitter this last few days.

Like I say - the more lives that are ****ed via FOBT's the happier these "people" are now I am afraid.

cadizza..No I meant how many bets did your shop take over the counter..an actual number per day..

Oh, sorry.

About 250-350 weekdays and 500-600 on Saturdays.

There is one I know of that struggles to make 125 midweek - is simply their for machines though and to house all the filth that have self excluded from every other shop in town!

cadizza..And I am not taking the rise..No wonder Betting Shops are single manned.In my day and in the shop that I unfortunately ran that has allowed a family firm from the South of England to sell out and expand again we used to take 10,000 plus bets a week .No aliens as well !! All hand settled.When automatic settling came in it was time to flee !! I cannot imagine someone who terms themselves a "manager" being content to sit behind a counter and settle the odd bet that cannot be done by a machine....

I know mate, the Shops are knackered - controlled by filth now. Only the Government can change it but it is too late now - like many things in Britain....totally mullered beyond repair.

homefortea     07 Mar 12 21:35 
cadizza..And I am not taking the rise..No wonder Betting Shops are single manned.In my day and in the shop that I unfortunately ran that has allowed a family firm from the South of England to sell out and expand again we used to take 10,000 plus bets a week

so in your day

monday 800 bills

tuesday 800 bills

wednesday 800 bills

thursday 1200 bills

friday 1600 bills

saturday 4800 bills.

shop open 10.00 to 18.00 well unless it was mecca bookmakers in the shopping centre at edmonton green market or stuck outside celtic football ground i think you may need to have a recount.

if you was doing that amount on your tod you must have the brain power of stephen hawking and sir clive sinclair combined.

i can remember the old prefab shop opposite finsbury park in the early 70s having 7 tills but it never took that amount of slippage

Cad ...you never told me you were appealing, get them in court. Don't bother negoitiating with them, instruct a lawyer  ....or contact me mate.

massive difference settling pre virtual/lucky 15 days.

2 horse 2 dog mon to wed/thurs
3 horse 2 dogs thurs/friday
5 horse 2 morning dogs sat

races staggered quarter hourly 2-00,2-15,2.30 etc

no lucky's, could beat lines before the last race, no early prices, maybe one race in the advert in sporting life/chronicle.
loads of itv7's on saturday
midweek nothing on until first race at 2 most days, snooker time for most managers, full timer filled bets, arrived back at 2, after a few beers to settle bets in the afternoon.
loads of across the card bets and singles, shops busiest time in afternoon when racing was on.
limited football betting.
yes you had to manually settle but 1000 bets then was easier to settle than a thousand bets pre epos, with all the lucky's virtual crap.

i did a few settling shifts in Castlemilk, Glasgow

saturday 6 tills, 2 payouts, 5 settling and a doorman

did around 6,000 bets every saturday

Got little rights Kidimo as it was under 12 months Employment you see, had worked for them for 3 years but left for 6 years. I have been to a Solicitor, she was straight with me about it.

Like everyone else though she did find it disgusting that simply for standing up to a bully who had called a member of staff who is autistic a "retard" I was fired and then they subsequently fired him following an investigation in to his behaviour, job standards and even his cv.

Hills are a very poor Firm now with very, very low morals amongst those in control. There is not much I can do now - I have appealed and today been told the appeal is now closed as I failed to attend an appeal meeting and let them know, I today told the Area Manager that I did let them now that I could not attend and have an e-mail and an acknowledgement from his Secretary that I did. At this point in the phone call he went quiet and then brushed that aside and asked me "what are you trying to achieve from your appeal" and I said "to clear my name as Steve White (Area Manager) should never have appointed Gary Makar (dismissed Hills District Manager). White should of listened to all the complaints (which have been listed in 2 investigations with statements from over 30 people) and it should not have got to the point where I had to stand up to this bully.".

See what happens but they basically do whatever they want and make up the rules as they go along. I cannot afford to do anything major and need to get on with things now as it can end up taking over your life.

Horrible people in a horrible Firm - I have contacted Ralph Topping and had no reply, as long as the profits roll in he simply doesn't give a damn and neither to the vast majority of people at William Hill now.

mail me cad

Far worse things going on at Hills these days than getting chopped from 50 quid to a pony on an arb folks!!!

Goggles 10 000 slips per week in Summer is not exceptional when you were open until 9.30.Plenty of shops in the North do far more.3200 on a Saturday and 2200 on a Wednesday (Lottery days) 1500 on a Friday and 1000 plus on the quieter days !! An extra settler to do the  multis on a Saturday and I could settle the race by race bets.First race 2 pm few pints at lunchtime and crack on.Happy days......

home for tea.

i know sweet fa about shops up north but thats amazing slippage compared to shops down here even back in the 70s and 80s.

at those figures some of the shops up north probably took more in the morning trade back then than the average shop in london now could do all day and night on a saturday

Wasn't Liverpool that was it homefortea? Shop in Liverpool with 3 gantrys I think.

goggles this was back in the days when there was a demand test and the High Street wasn't full of Bookmakers !!
cadizza I had a spell working for Stanley Racing and they had some monster shops (albeit with a very low average stake per slip)Back in the day managed a shop in Manchester that was immaculate on a run down Council Estate.Couldn't understand why so much money had been spent on it until I discovered that it was the closest shop to the Chairmans house.As if he would pop in ! although he once came into another shop to claim 20p in expenses for parking !The firm also had a shop on the Newtownards Road in Belfast that had an enormous slippage - 3 thousand would be a quiet day and even 25 years ago would open at 7 am to catch the Harland and Wolff employees off to work.Try settling those bets - a favourite was to pick 12 horses on a slip and do an each-way double lap and the minute the bet was finished they would be at the payout !!!

Some very interesting replies but I have to point out that to say W.H are a disgrace is somewhat of an understatement.... If William Hill himself was alive today he'd be turning in his grave to see what has happened to the firm he founded. Sadly those in the powers to be ' upper management & directors ' appear to have no shame in the way they treat their customers today and the message is clear for us all TAKE YOUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE !

Cannot disagree with that unforgiven.

Changes people who work at William Hill I think, it is like a cult ran by a (change the l to a n)!

Not too sure if this has already neen pointed out as I've not got the time to read all the responses but regarding Oscar Whisky @6/1 the other day - I enquired at the counter about each Way bets and was told that should I back him Eway I would only get odds of 9/2 : The 6/1 was for WIN ONLY bets.

Think that is wrong mate - probably a clueless member of Staff as oppose to a rule

I saw the message that had been sent to shops - staff were told not to mention this unless asked by punters. Although I struggle to get any bet on myself with them I still have a good relationship with some of the staff and find out plenty that is not known to customers out there. I know of plenty of staff too that are fed up to the back teeth of working for them and will leave at the first opportunity.

Christ, nothing at all surprises me with them lot any more!

Tried to back a player to score a hat-trick tonight online @ 12/1 for 30 quid was offered a fiver.
Decided to ring up then to get the bet on any was offered nothing not a single cent!!
Simply said they didnt want to lay any of the bet.
Bunch of jokers and an embarrassment to their profession.
Cant wait till next week to all the BS about laying horses for millions at Cheltenham.

Be all sorts of crap coming out next week.

Was quite glad last year when a few locals ran a book in the pubs/clubs and Hills was dead round our way. Hopefully do the same this year.

i must admit some of the managers these firms employ leave a lot to be desired.

a new shop that opened 3 months ago is a classic tale of when you really must blame the staff and higher up for not dealing with this.

on sunday the take in the shop was £624.00 for 364 slips.

on tuesday the take was £433.00 for 325 slips.

when a district manager queried the slippage for tuesday it turned out one old dear had placed 295 of the slips all on virtual racing with stakes of anything from .03 pence to .15 pence a slip.

this shop has been fitted out with all the latest tv screens showing the companys own virtual as well as the sis crap.

the managers response was at least he is getting the slippage up and the district manager agrees but no one has pointed out to them take the care in the community old dear out and the shop has been open from 08.30 to 22.00 and took 30 slips for approx £400.00.

it really is that frighting that you would not let these 2 run you a bath let alone a business

Cant wait till next week to all the BS about laying horses for millions at Cheltenham.

Ruthlessly take your business away from the media platforms who knowingly perpetuate these lies, imo - one of which, I would bet very good money, now has William Hill as a shareholder...

if anyone has it off this weekend with a certain firm do not expect to be paid cash for 4 figures and above as staff have been instructed to bank as much as possible

one district the area manager did not bother wondering where the spare keys to all the shops in his district were.

it looks like relief staff just left the spare keys anywhere and when staff left or where sacked no safe codes were changed so some enterprising member of staff has been nicking the keys and keeping the safe numbers.

after emptying the safes of at least 8 shops at night he got more adventurous this week he sent someone into a shop when the manager was out and the guy was dressed in uniform and told the cashier he was working there she let him behind the counter where he then went into the back room and emptied the safe of 12k.

he then asked the cashier if she wanted anything from the sweet shop and vanished.

when the manager came back she told him the relief cashier went out and has not come back and he thought strange extra staff today and it was not until he went to do the banking he realised the safe had been raped

Where did this happen, goggles?

what firm, find it all a bit hard to believe.

what firm, find it all a bit hard to believe.

goggles love your posts.In my day as a young pup at Stanley Racing if you were more than a pound short then you had to explain it to the Area Manager and if you did it again then....Left that rancid firm as soon as possible but the tales I could tell....

north finchley.

not one of the big 3.

Was it PP?

The do with the slips, ha ha ha.

Another Gary Markar (DOM) - Fairbairn ("LBO MANAGER") classic up here in Carlisle that.

Fairbrass asks his regulars to do multiple slips for him so as his slips are higher, eg:

5 quid on t1 208 Romford - do 5 slips with 1 quid on each to up the slippage.

Makar agrees with this and even says "this lad has good business sense".

William Hills - stupidity all the way.

The high street firms do not give a hoot what they take over the counter, unless it is virtual racing.

Glorified arcades.