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23 Oct 11
22:14
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Date Joined:
04 Feb 03
For the golden jubilee, July cup, then these a gap to the foret, on arc day,
So there should be time in between to fit in a match race with frankel.
The race would have to be worth at least a million to get it on get both connections on board, who would put the money up and where could it be run ?
Could bring us out of recession imo
So there should be time in between to fit in a match race with frankel.
The race would have to be worth at least a million to get it on get both connections on board, who would put the money up and where could it be run ?
Could bring us out of recession imo
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I agree but it could well go out of his hands and the owner decides, if there both still u beaten at the time then it has to be a possibility with both in uk
I'd think the bigger issue is whose gonna put the money,
I'd think the bigger issue is whose gonna put the money,
would love to see it but aint gonna happen!!
I'll pledge a tenner if Frankel's peoples don't insist on every feckin race being over a coontin mile.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
racingpost today
He ruled out any possible trip to Hong Kong, Dubai or Singapore in colourful terms. "Why should we supplement every other bastard's racing around the world?" he said. "Let's supplement our own and enjoy her here for as long as we can?"
However, Moody also told the Racing Post that Europe remains prominent in his thinking after Black Caviar has finished her Australian autumn campaign, outlining a schedule for 2012 taking in the Golden Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot and the July Cup before a tilt at the Prix de la Foret.
"I'm as keen as anyone to see her race abroad but I want Australia to see her and enjoy what she does," he explained.
"I tend to talk it down a little bit but the owners are very keen to go to Ascot so if she stays through her remaining races here unbeaten, then we would look at a prolonged campaign.
"When she has finished here, I can see us coming over for the Golden Jubilee, July Cup and the seven-furlong race on Arc day. There's no need to rush back for a stud career or anything like that."
Black Caviar's reputation meant she was next to unbackable on Saturday, when three rivals included Royal Ascot winner Scenic Blast.
The final dividend of 1.03 on most pools represented an SP of 1-33 - but in some states, where it is allowed, no dividend was returned. Punters bet a dollar simply to get their money back - and they never had a moment's worry as she arrogantly dismissed her opponents by six lengths, totally eased down by regular rider Luke Nolen.
"They aren't good enough to beat her here and nothing wants to run against her," said Moody. "The only thing that would stop me coming over is if she gets beaten because really that would mean something had happened - only misadventure could get her beaten.
"I'm not being rude but horses like Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti - she would tow them. That's not me saying that, it is their trainers!"
He ruled out any possible trip to Hong Kong, Dubai or Singapore in colourful terms. "Why should we supplement every other bastard's racing around the world?" he said. "Let's supplement our own and enjoy her here for as long as we can?"
However, Moody also told the Racing Post that Europe remains prominent in his thinking after Black Caviar has finished her Australian autumn campaign, outlining a schedule for 2012 taking in the Golden Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot and the July Cup before a tilt at the Prix de la Foret.
"I'm as keen as anyone to see her race abroad but I want Australia to see her and enjoy what she does," he explained.
"I tend to talk it down a little bit but the owners are very keen to go to Ascot so if she stays through her remaining races here unbeaten, then we would look at a prolonged campaign.
"When she has finished here, I can see us coming over for the Golden Jubilee, July Cup and the seven-furlong race on Arc day. There's no need to rush back for a stud career or anything like that."
Black Caviar's reputation meant she was next to unbackable on Saturday, when three rivals included Royal Ascot winner Scenic Blast.
The final dividend of 1.03 on most pools represented an SP of 1-33 - but in some states, where it is allowed, no dividend was returned. Punters bet a dollar simply to get their money back - and they never had a moment's worry as she arrogantly dismissed her opponents by six lengths, totally eased down by regular rider Luke Nolen.
"They aren't good enough to beat her here and nothing wants to run against her," said Moody. "The only thing that would stop me coming over is if she gets beaten because really that would mean something had happened - only misadventure could get her beaten.
"I'm not being rude but horses like Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti - she would tow them. That's not me saying that, it is their trainers!"
Poor Frankel really can't win with some people, he's being knocked by comparison to horses like Sea The Stars because he hasn't won at more than one trip (even though he has) and constantly being dug out for not stepping up to the 10f races and not meeting So You Think, so then when it seems the plan is to go up in trip next season, you now have people wanting him to drop back to sprint distances to face Black Caviar.
Maybe he should be expected to run twice at both trips against each of them on the same card ffs!
Maybe he should be expected to run twice at both trips against each of them on the same card ffs!
7 and half furlongs would be a fair trip, think the race should at Newmarket
Not sure if they could brand it as a group one
Not sure if they could brand it as a group one
They certainly can`t make it a Grp1.
Anyway Frankel and Black Thingy are SO 2011. Camelot is now all the rage.
Anyway Frankel and Black Thingy are SO 2011. Camelot is now all the rage.
true dat, the long unmeasured pulse of time moves everything, there is nothing hidden that it cannot bring to light
frankel will be stepping up to 1m 2f next season and if it works out he will most likely stay at that trip with maybe only a drop back to a mile if there are no suitable races for him.
he doesn't have to try and prove something against some australian G2 horse who races against nothing all the time.
he doesn't have to try and prove something against some australian G2 horse who races against nothing all the time.
hmmm, so im getting the picture you think Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti are just handicapers, funny they beat your group 1 sprinters and they aint in BC's class...dropkick
funny outpost, races against nothing you say, did Scenic Blast not win the king's stand stakes?
she belted him last Saturday
she belted him last Saturday
Come on... even the most ardent of Aussie race supporters has to concede that the Scenic Blast running now is not a patch on the horse that won @ Royal Ascot? He has not won a race since ffs.
I'm taking nothing away from Black Caviar, she is obviously very special but I certainly would not expect her to win on the bridle if she comes over here next Summer for the Golden Jubilee/July Cup. We actually have a couple of decent sprinters now
Deacon Blues is a highly progressive sprinter who will be contesting our top 6f sprints next Season and with home advantage he may be able to give her a race, though tbh I doubt he will be good enough to beat her.
She would be an absolute certainty for the Kings Stand Stakes over 5f at Ascot though, we don't have anything at that distance that could remotely trouble her.
I'm taking nothing away from Black Caviar, she is obviously very special but I certainly would not expect her to win on the bridle if she comes over here next Summer for the Golden Jubilee/July Cup. We actually have a couple of decent sprinters now
Deacon Blues is a highly progressive sprinter who will be contesting our top 6f sprints next Season and with home advantage he may be able to give her a race, though tbh I doubt he will be good enough to beat her.
She would be an absolute certainty for the Kings Stand Stakes over 5f at Ascot though, we don't have anything at that distance that could remotely trouble her.
Btw message to our Aussie posters, don't listen to people calling her a Group2 horse
They either no Fec k all about racing or are on a wind up mission, the latter I suspect.
They either no Fec k all about racing or are on a wind up mission, the latter I suspect.
black caviar will race over 7f before she goes to england I think, could be wrong about that though.
But if she does then that should give a much clearer indication of how easily she will win the jubilee and what chance she has in the french 7f race.
But if she does then that should give a much clearer indication of how easily she will win the jubilee and what chance she has in the french 7f race.
the problem with peoples (not mine) perception of BC (over here anyway) is that she is beating them so easily that they just cant believe she is beating good horses!
as i said earlier on the bc v db thread, looking at her form through star witness, and looking at what he did this summer, she would have won all 3 races he contested, giving them all weight and winning without coming off the bridle, whether she wouldve is another thing but on the form she showed on OZ she would have destroyed them all very very easily!thats all i can say really!!
im not saying shes better than frankel or anything like it, but it would appear the people in the uk wont hear of defeat and vice versa!
we're not going to see the race in all likelihood, they race overf different distances for a start and fankel is going up in trip!
both brilliant horses!! we're v lucky!
as i said earlier on the bc v db thread, looking at her form through star witness, and looking at what he did this summer, she would have won all 3 races he contested, giving them all weight and winning without coming off the bridle, whether she wouldve is another thing but on the form she showed on OZ she would have destroyed them all very very easily!thats all i can say really!!
im not saying shes better than frankel or anything like it, but it would appear the people in the uk wont hear of defeat and vice versa!
we're not going to see the race in all likelihood, they race overf different distances for a start and fankel is going up in trip!
both brilliant horses!! we're v lucky!
Seems we have another batch of Skippies shouting about a horse that has everything in here favour beating "Yaks" in small fields on flat tracks in lovely weather. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Farnkel would rip the guts out of her imho as she simply bullies the other "Yaks" she races against
The ingorant Aussies on here who proclaimed SYT the second coming of Pegasus make me laugh.
Calm down skippies , she is decent , granted but UNTIL she does it over here we don't care , just another hype monster with a loud mouthed Berr swilling yob at the helm.
Imagine Sir Henry resorting to shoite like that.
WHO CARES , fram some more races for here to mop up
Farnkel would rip the guts out of her imho as she simply bullies the other "Yaks" she races against
The ingorant Aussies on here who proclaimed SYT the second coming of Pegasus make me laugh.
Calm down skippies , she is decent , granted but UNTIL she does it over here we don't care , just another hype monster with a loud mouthed Berr swilling yob at the helm.
Imagine Sir Henry resorting to shoite like that.
WHO CARES , fram some more races for here to mop up
im sure its pointless even trying to explain it but just because u dont know the horses doesnt mean theyre 'yaks'!!
u saw what star witness did this summer and she can beat him 7L on the bridle GIVING him 10 lbs.
do the math imo!
u saw what star witness did this summer and she can beat him 7L on the bridle GIVING him 10 lbs.
do the math imo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_Qurl05YM
0.2 seconds outside the flemington track record and carrying 1.5kg over WFA. She's barely out of 1st gear in the race.
0.2 seconds outside the flemington track record and carrying 1.5kg over WFA. She's barely out of 1st gear in the race.
My point is I have seen this somewhere before (SYT) and will wait until she does it away from home before we anoint another legend.
These ingorant Aussies ahev shouted about many before and they rarely live up to the hype.
Plus the fact I have ZERO interest in racing from the other side of the world , it is uba boring.
GL , hope she comes here and then we will see.
The trainer sounds like a nice guy ( Typical Loud mothed Aussi )
These ingorant Aussies ahev shouted about many before and they rarely live up to the hype.
Plus the fact I have ZERO interest in racing from the other side of the world , it is uba boring.
GL , hope she comes here and then we will see.
The trainer sounds like a nice guy ( Typical Loud mothed Aussi )
Just because we talked SYT up (far too much) doesn't really mean you should ignore blatantly obvious things that indicate BC is probably different.
And I have a bit of a theory as to why we all got swept up so much in SYT anyway, and it's because he runs his best every time.
And rather than being championed for massive wins, he was being championed because nothing could beat him in any race he stepped out in (except the MC where he didn't stay).
I think SYT's consitancy built his legend here more than anything else in the end, but I didn't realise that at the time obviously. But the facts are other horses beat better cox plate fields than he did by bigger margins, they just lost random races every so often so they didn't seem as good.
And rather than being championed for massive wins, he was being championed because nothing could beat him in any race he stepped out in (except the MC where he didn't stay).
I think SYT's consitancy built his legend here more than anything else in the end, but I didn't realise that at the time obviously. But the facts are other horses beat better cox plate fields than he did by bigger margins, they just lost random races every so often so they didn't seem as good.
fair enough zippie, i understand many on the other half of the world could care less about racing in the opposite half but she isnt SYT, she unbeaten in 15 races for a start!
we have strong lines of form now that suggest she wouldve thrashed anything star witness faced this summer, and all without barely coming off the bridle. the likes of star witness was GIVING DREAM AHEAD 6 lbs in the july cup and was beat 4L. the same horse is getting 10 lbs from BC and getting beat 7L eased down!! shes IS the real deal and personally, the best ive seen since dayjur!
again im not saying she'd beat frankel but she is his eqv over sprint distances in the southern hemisphere!
we have strong lines of form now that suggest she wouldve thrashed anything star witness faced this summer, and all without barely coming off the bridle. the likes of star witness was GIVING DREAM AHEAD 6 lbs in the july cup and was beat 4L. the same horse is getting 10 lbs from BC and getting beat 7L eased down!! shes IS the real deal and personally, the best ive seen since dayjur!
again im not saying she'd beat frankel but she is his eqv over sprint distances in the southern hemisphere!
megsy 24 Oct 11 09:23
hmmm, so im getting the picture you think Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti are just handicapers, funny they beat your group 1 sprinters and they aint in BC's class...dropkickLaugh
You keep missing the point megsy in that insular Aussie world you live in but would it help if I typed slower or if you followed with your finger on the screen and silently mouthed the words as you read? Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti didn't just beat our sprinters, they beat them in a few races and lost to them in many more......put the cherries down and take a look at the bigger picture.
Choisir - beat Oasis Dream in the King's Stand and lost to him in the July Cup and had a record of 2 wins from 3 start over here.
Takeover Target - beat Les Arc in the King's Stand and lost to him in the Golden Jubilee and again in the July Cup and has a winning record of 1 win from 8 starts here.
Miss Andretti - won the King's Stand and then finished a beaten out of sight 15 of 21 in the Golden Jubilee where even Takeover Target was 4th in the same Kings Stand and then 2nd in the Golden Jubilee, so well and truly reversing the form but anyone who knows racing will know that's generally the nature of sprints where they all take turns to beat each other.
Your sprinters have been spanked here far more often than they have won and it's only 4 wins from numerous starts for the 3 named above. Do yourself a favour and take the Aussies tinted goggles off and people might actually think you know what you are talking about.
hmmm, so im getting the picture you think Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti are just handicapers, funny they beat your group 1 sprinters and they aint in BC's class...dropkickLaugh
You keep missing the point megsy in that insular Aussie world you live in but would it help if I typed slower or if you followed with your finger on the screen and silently mouthed the words as you read? Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti didn't just beat our sprinters, they beat them in a few races and lost to them in many more......put the cherries down and take a look at the bigger picture.
Choisir - beat Oasis Dream in the King's Stand and lost to him in the July Cup and had a record of 2 wins from 3 start over here.
Takeover Target - beat Les Arc in the King's Stand and lost to him in the Golden Jubilee and again in the July Cup and has a winning record of 1 win from 8 starts here.
Miss Andretti - won the King's Stand and then finished a beaten out of sight 15 of 21 in the Golden Jubilee where even Takeover Target was 4th in the same Kings Stand and then 2nd in the Golden Jubilee, so well and truly reversing the form but anyone who knows racing will know that's generally the nature of sprints where they all take turns to beat each other.
Your sprinters have been spanked here far more often than they have won and it's only 4 wins from numerous starts for the 3 named above. Do yourself a favour and take the Aussies tinted goggles off and people might actually think you know what you are talking about.
what to u think of her performances in relation to star witnesses this summer ima?
"I'm not being rude but horses like Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti - she would tow them. That's not me saying that, it is their trainers!"
i will leave it to the trainers of these horses who know, ....end of story.
i will leave it to the trainers of these horses who know, ....end of story.
She keeps beating him fairly easy enough ilikewavingatbuses but then so did Dream Ahead and like I mentioned before, I don't really think he's a true sprinter. I think he for want of a better expression "got away" with winning a few top sprints but the fact that they retired him seems quite telling, instead of staying in training for next season's sprints and facing the likes of Deacon Blues or to carry on taking on Frankel and Excelebration.
Prohbit and Society Rock both also beat Star Witness but have only won one more race (a Gr3) between them in 6 further starts since then so they don't seem to be top notch sprinters themselves.
Fair enough megsy, those trainers of Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti say Black Caviar would beat their horses but they've all been well beaten in races over here too. Nobody is denying Black Caviar looks a very good horse but consistently winning in Australia and doing so the world over are two different things. That's not to say she can't do it but until she does it remains to be seen......the very same applies to Frankel too.
Prohbit and Society Rock both also beat Star Witness but have only won one more race (a Gr3) between them in 6 further starts since then so they don't seem to be top notch sprinters themselves.
Fair enough megsy, those trainers of Choisir, Takeover Target and Miss Andretti say Black Caviar would beat their horses but they've all been well beaten in races over here too. Nobody is denying Black Caviar looks a very good horse but consistently winning in Australia and doing so the world over are two different things. That's not to say she can't do it but until she does it remains to be seen......the very same applies to Frankel too.
big difference in beating and being towed, why dont you just appreciate the beast she is and enjoy her like 99.99999% of your own countrymen. but no, you have to be negative.
Show me one negative thing I've said about her?
By the way, does Fleeting Spirit beating Takeover Target 4½L count as "towing" or how about Soldier's Tale beating Miss Andretti by 10½L?
By the way, does Fleeting Spirit beating Takeover Target 4½L count as "towing" or how about Soldier's Tale beating Miss Andretti by 10½L?
dont listen to these guys they are not true fans of the sport black caviar is a legend
it took two track records and jockeys breaking rules to beat so you think
so you think is a legend
so you think is a legend
Ignoring picking holes in that for the time being, what was the excuse in the Arc then?
For what it's worth though, I personally think Rewilding should have been thrown out and the race awarded to So You Think but you could also argue that a 12f horse shouldn't really be beating SYT at 10f regardless.
For what it's worth though, I personally think Rewilding should have been thrown out and the race awarded to So You Think but you could also argue that a 12f horse shouldn't really be beating SYT at 10f regardless.
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