Why I wont be using Betfair Multiples ever again - 50% LESS

Here's the proof:-

2011-10-21
17:07    25792486     2011-10-21
17:07   
Transfer from Multiples, Multiples Bet Id 25792486          -    -    -         427.40


Bet Details    Date/Time    Stake    Return
Bohemian Melody @ 12/1
Exemplary @ 20/1
Incendo @ 16/1
Trebles, 1 bet * £5.00  EW    21/10/2011 15:12:41    10.00    600.00

because the place price was under SP

+ 5% deduction PER LEG

simples

better off doing multiples at bookies

£5 @ 1110.4-1 on the BFSP win

£33,112.20

well done

I'm guessing you had a few going for you

14.5 / 26.4 / 17.3 win treble

Of course had they all won, it would have been very nice....but 50% under the bookies payout is just a joke.

I put this up as a warning to others who may use the BF multiples....looks like WIN ONLY and E/W with the bookies.

How do BF work this out. BF place SP was 3.98, 5.89 and 4.1 respectively.

5*3.98*5.89*4.1= 480.56, so how come I only got 427.40!

It's one rip off after another!

Deltâ     @ 17:27 told you why .....

3.78 / 5.59 / 3.89

it's not 5% deduction per leg though, doesn't work out...but even if it did....how can they deduct each leg, should surely only deduct once at the end.

Anyway lesson learnt, wont be doing any more....worse than the tote 40% deduction for the scoop 6!

You won though ....  you must really be hard to please

Yes because how often do these come in? Not every week I can assure you, so to lose 50% of your expected winnings is a lot! If I had known how poor the BF payout would be I would not have done it with them. So I want to warn other that E/W bets with BF should be avoided.

My comm rate is 4.4, that is the difference....but to take comm every leg is just disgraceful.

Absolutely shocking, worse than Dick Turpin. Bf showing contempt for their customers yet again.

you had bets with both BF and Bet 365

This suggests to me that you are aware of the potential large differences in payouts and wanted to cover yourself in both areas

i.e. if all 3 won you would have scored on BF

The place price is on Betfair is the true price of that horse placing. Yes it can go against traditional are worked on the 1/4 or 1/5 rules.

That being said, you'd prefer to have a win only Multiple with Betfair SP compared to Industry SP.

Also they have to charge a commission per leg, they have to have a margin, they are a business.

Just ask them for a stake refund then

Betfair multiples just not worth it until they give a minimum return

The more you put on the lesser the odds given , hardly encouraging

Trusty if you can get a multiple on with that Stoke outfit give the game up and start knitting instead of having a pop at Betfair..

Evening Mr Freeth ^ lol

Homefortea,please give a reasoned response you clown.Bet 365 will lay a £5 ew treble no matter how weak they may be.They certainly won't be charging 4.4% commission every time on of them places and they won't be charging up to 60% premium charge either.Betfair nowadays is for mugs who simply cannot win or never have any pretensions to winning

Delta knows all.

He goes through my bin at nights

Mincer my little ballerina, I have had many accounts with the said firm the last one was shut in a week despite it being a £2.5k loser ! If you can get a bet on to win more than a pony than indeed you are a horses arse.Anyone who backs a couple of horses at bigger than the sp is closed quicker than than Peter Coates' bedroom door when he hears the wife coming up the stairs..

BF don't have to charge a commission per leg, they choose to because they are greedy. BF are only supposed to charge commission on winning bets and the bet was not a winner until the last one placed so how can they justify charging commission on a per leg basis; the FAIR way to have calculated this bet would have been:



(5*3.98*5.89*4.1= 480.56) * 0.956 (if comm rate 4.4) = 459.42

Homefortea,every two bob punter in the world including yourself obviously has had accounts closed down particularly in the latter years of gambling.Just because the account was losing ,that makes no difference whatsoever .If somebody is betting horses that are hot it won't matter whether they win or not.Whatever you say about Bet 365,they hardly are likely to have charged you commission or premium charge at any stage,so please don't big up Betfair as the saviour of gambling when nowadays the winners are no longer allowed bet

Trusty

Horse Racing Multiples

When betting on horse racing Multiples the odds of each leg will be based on the Betfair SP, adjusted by a margin. This margin is usually 5% but may vary from time to time. No commission is payable on winnings on horse racing Multiples.

Trusty 21 Oct 11 18:01 
it's not 5% deduction per leg though,



err?

so...

Hey I am no apologist for Betfair but at least you know (or should do) what you get.Please don't call me a two bob punter and mention me in the same sentence as that firm.If you are prepared to bend over and be shafted then that is your lookout.Just be aware that you and anyone who can get a bet on with that firm is a loser...Yes a loser and if you want to be a "recreational punter" then fair enough.

How sneaky is that! They don't charge you your personal commission rate because they are charging you the maximum commission rate on each leg.

Homefortea - Ony a complete fool can lose to 366; Everyone who bets with them should be a winner, until they get closed; one of my friends managed to take nearly 10K off them before they realised he wasn't a mug.

Oh dear, I could own the whole of Stoke-On-Trent if I was allowed too..A week is not enough to take them on.Good luck to anyone who got £10k off that awful family.Oh and as regards Betfair multiples why would anyone take the sp ..surely the whole point of the said firm is that you can fix a price and actually get on !!

Can you bet place place only trebles with 366 ? if not you will mathematically take under the odds on here.

At least Bet365 or whatever firm they are are bookies who lay bets and are in the business to make money.They do take positions and obviously chances from time to time.It's common sense that they will limit punters that they deem dangerous.This betfair crowd lay nothing ,take no chances yet they still want to weed out the pros .They will allow thieves to operate once they part with half the proceeds back to them via this premium charge.An odious organisation ,so please don't mention them in the same breath as 365 or anybody else for that matter.Worse than bettfred and that's saying something

mincer11 - I think homefortea's point is that 366 don't lay bets, unless they think you are a mug.

homefortea - My friend was only staking about £50 per bet. I don't know how you bet but if you get a new account and go wading in with £500 dirty EW bets you can't expect it to last long.

Mincer oh dear oh dear.Nobet365 do not take positions unless it is face down.Limit punters..if that means you are allowed to "win" £15 then that is OK.They shouldn't be allowed to operate because they are no better than the FOBT's that you find on the High Street.Some time soon such operations will be closed down.

Repollag only £50 per bet !!Even Matthew Etherington couldn't get that much on ...

homefortea - £50 Win and £25 EW was no problem for several months; he even had plenty of next C4 race freebies and bets in races with 5 places. I advised him to avoid PW selections as that's a quick way to get your account noticed.

What ?? I cannot believe that I am even replying to you.Message me with any account details and I can GUARANTEE that the account will be closed by Monday.And then you will have to provide those chancers with more ID than you ever find.The sooner that the Gambling Commission does its job then the sooner that gambling becomes well regulated.Some people are winners and some are losers..FACT...

Yes and the real winners are not allowed bet on betfair,the stealers are as long as they half the spoils.

mincer11 send me your details and I will make you money.If not shut the fook up.Unless you actually work for the odious Stoke "layers"....

Shut up ya fool,send me your details and i'l make you money.What kind of a tool are you at all,every Tom Dick and Harry gets closed down nowadays,you are hardly in a league of your own.

homefortea - I completely agree that some people are winners and some are losers; the point I'm making is, unless you have no idea of betting, it is hard to lose to 366 because they offer such good value. I dislike 366 as much as you do but the fact is that for whatever reason some people can have profitable accounts with them for a some time. I'm sure you can get anyone's 366 account closed immidiately because you would just login with your usual computer and ip address and they would link the account to you. 366 are one of the more technically aware books so, if you don't already, you need to understand how they link your accounts.

mincer11 - it sounds like you pay the premium charge. I don't pay it but I would be bitter if I did. I belive the premium charge is a disgrace, smacks of utter greed, and is totally contrary to the principals BF used to stand for, i.e. fairness and winners welcome.

repollag mincer paying the premium charge .......his biggest bet is 20 max.... he'sone of the biggest clowns over on the irish form.....we take the piss out of him most days ffs.....premium charge ........

Repollag speaks alot of sense,he is 100 % correct.I dont actually pay PC but i know one or two that do,and i also know the way they have been treated by this shower.Contemptable isnt the word for them

So what's his issue with BF. He seems very angry with them.

I don't normally get too involved on the forum so I don't know who is who. Tonight I'm home alone :-( and got involved in this thread, although we have gone totally off the original point.

mincer11 - sorry to adress my questions to workrider when you are still about. Maybe you can tell me why you are so angry with BF. I can see they have become more and more greedy and just because I don't personally the premium charge I can still see how unfair it is.

recllag mincer is a sad lonely weirdo ..who never bets..but has an opinion on everything ,and its always in the negitive..he has never put up a selection on here although he's been around since 2006....we think he's a manic depressive and will argue just for the sake of it....

I think Declan whoever he is ,seems to be prone to a bit of hyperbola.Typical point to point man,yoke wins a bad maiden and its the next Best Mate.Heard all this stuff before,he has nominated the Cheltenham bumper winner even fair play to him.I love the comment about the horse that can win a handicap chase inside 4 to 5 years,well it will hardly be 15 years Declan.The best pointer he has handled since War Of Attrition,more impressive than Peddlars Cross,jesus who is this guy ?He has put up two so far Dramatic Duke and Minella For Party,both worthless.Not a very inspiring start by young Declan

thats mincer btw...

Do many people actually post selections on here? The problem is if they do how do you know if they are genuine or if the are trying to get you to take their bets? I suppose experience is the key so I shall start taking a better look.

enjoy yourself repollag ..but be mindful .theres a few on here would drive you nuts....mincer been a case in point...

using bookies so much better

early prices/guaranteed odds

3x odds --1 winner

cash in hand

Repollag,i shall engage with you as it is a pleasure to converse with an obviously intelligent and reasonable character.My gripe with betfair is that as you said yourself they have gone away from their original person to person ethos on which the idea was founded.Now the prolific winners are weeded out so as to give the lesser lights more of an opportunity to stay alive and hence pay more commisssion.The people that have been eliminated are professionals who work harder and are just basically better than the normal run of the mill punter.Allowed to flourish are people who can bet when eventualities have been decided whether pre or post race,as long as they share the spoils with the house.Now there is no other show in town for in running so anybody that is getting free money has no option but to share with this company who provides the facility.Likewise anyone laying certain non triers regularly will not mind sharing the spoils as half a loaf is better than no bread,and both parties are happy.20 % better odds still exists but sadly no longer for winners,no liquidity is another factor that is rarely highlighted.All in all the ideal has floundered,yet people seem not to care.

mincer11 - thank you for engaging with me :-). I agree with what you say. It is a pity BF don't have any real competition. Why the big players haven't moved to Purple long ago baffles me, but all the time the liquidity is here nothing will change. Like I say I don't pay the PC but I haven't forgiven BF for the comission hike of a few years ago. My only consolation re that hike is knowing that they have lost money from me because of it because the amount I keep in my account since the hike is 1/3rd of what it was before the hike, so they are losing the interest they would have been making on my money, which is less then they gain via the extra commission.

I regularly place win golf multiples over with purple - they give you pretty much the same odds on the multiples as they do on the exchange.  Of course, they're unlikely ever have to payout with the best I do, but I've hit one side of the double enough to keep on trying!!

I saw betfair were offering golf multiples recently, the only one I bothered checking, betfair were offering 130 and 150 on two golfers who I was able to double with purple at 230 and 200 odd.  Now, in fairness to betfair, b365  was offering 90/1 and 120/1 on the two guys.

Glad there has been a bit of banter on this thread.

I think it is important for recreational punters like me to know that Betfair e/w multiples should be avoided....the original point of the thread. The fact BF can make any adjustment they like to their SP is even worse. (Thank you Delta).

I have had a WINNING account with B366 for just over two years! My first bet was a newly opened account where I deposited £100 and got a free £100 which I placed on Debussy to win at 12/1 on his first run back from Meydan in 2010 because Platini on the AP Forum put up a very strong case for it. So I had £2500 after my first bet. I withdrew the cash I was allowed to, which was £1300 and have played with the rest ever since. For a small punter like me B366 are absolutely fantastic and I have absolutely no complaints.

I know no jockeys, trainers, agents, COC etc but do know a few owners. That has been very little help to me over the years. I bet completely for fun and I hope to win; I thoroughly enjoy working through the h'caps and try to get those winners. I don't bet much in the Group races, maidens etc.

Good luck to all the punters today and I hope you pro's can make money as well.

I don't mind doing the odd horse race multiple on BF that is win only.  Can provide some much better returns than bookies for small stakers.

What is clear however is that the bookies place portion of fixed odds 1/4 or 1/5th  remains a much better deal generally than the "true" place price which BF produces.

I'll never use bookies Multiples again E/W!

I place a winning each way treble with BOG's and the Industry SP returned marginally better on one runner than the other two (both remained same price).

Then I saw the Betfair Multiples win price, I would have doubled my win stake winnings even after the 5% margin. Why didn't the bookies give me that price? Crazy. I normally place my E/W bets on the premise I expect all horses to win!

Swings both ways Trusty.

Can you bet place only trebles with 366? if not you will obviously take a reduced place price on here.

Just a reminder.

Trusty I do not believe you.I do not know anybody who has kept a winning account open even to small stakes with the sad Stoke outfit.They have even been ruled against by the Advertising Standards Authority for restricting their "special offers" to mugs only and yet STILL the Racing Post keeps printing their ads !They have no shame.In all the accounts I have had with them stakes were kept low (£25 a pop) just to keep going and I never took advantage of "special offers" either.Yet the first time you had the audacity to win and beat the sp you were emailed "advising" you that the "special offers no longer apply" and lo and behold you could win £25.How they can continue to be allowed to trade sickens me.Oh and they could not have linked any of the accounts via my computer as anyone with an IQ of over 80 knows of a dozen ways to get round that one ....

homefortea...I have no reason to lie about B366 but cannot post anything as proof as there is no P&L function on the account. I have no affiliation to B366 they are just another bookie that have not knocked me back.

I WILL be placing win multiple bets on BF but I am worried about the discretionary deduction (could be whatever they like) and about how they decide on the BSP - both open to manipulation in their favour if a couple of legs are in and the moneys rolling up. I also don't like that you don't know where you stand as if you have taken the prices with the bookies it stops a plunge on the last leg really hurting your return.

GL today.

Couldn't agree more about the Betfair multiples Trusty.Never done one though, as no point if you cannot take a price. If you have to take a Betfair sp then of course if you have a lot of money running onto the last leg then the sp will plunge but that is not manipulation but bookmaking in the old fashioned sense.As an aside I remember in my working days (!) taking bets such as £50 super-heinze's from wealthy clients and the last timed horse on the slip would always be at sp for obvious reasons !
Not sure about your non-affiliation with the said Stoke firm though !!