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20 Oct 11
06:03
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12 Jul 07
Thank the Lord we have somebody with common sense and, hey ho, intelligence. A delightful young man who has the BEST INTERESTS of the horse and INDUSTRY at heart. From the RP:
Moore calls for a return to the old whip rules
BY STUART RILEY 8:16PM 19 OCT 2011
THREE-TIME champion jockey Ryan Moore became the latest jockey to speak out against the new whip rules on Wednesday evening, stating his discontent with the whole situation and calling for a return to the old rules.
Contradicting a statement released earlier in the day by PJA chief executive Kevin Darley, stating that the jockeys were in favour of reducing the number of strikes permitted under the old rules, Moore called the limit of seven "too low".
"In my view these new whip rules won't work," Moore said. "Everyone came out and said it was for the good of the sport without really thinking what it meant before everything got out of control.
"It is ruining the sport, Kevin [Darley] has been forced into finding a compromise. The fact is seven [strikes] is too low, but we couldn't go in and say we need to hit horses more because that doesn't look good, and that's supposed to be what this is allabout.
"The jockeys asked for clarity, but I'm not happy with the number [seven], it's just too low. How can seven be fine, but eight is too much, it doesn't make sense. You can't put a number on what is abuse, you could hit a horse once and it could be abuse and you could hit a horse 20 times and it wouldn't be.
"No-one wants to see horses abused and if a young lad hits a horse unnecessarily, the senior guys will pull him aside and set him straight. We all love horses and would never abuse them."
On the need for the whip in a race, Moore, who was speaking on Racing UK, added: "Once a horse comes under pressure, you need to keep them up to it or they relax, there's no pain, but it is just getting them to respond and concentrate.
"It makes racing less competitive, you have to ride every horse the same way, some it will suit, but many it won't."
On Monday's meeting with the BHA, Moore added: "The BHA gave the impression they were under pressure to make these changes; they said they had two mailbags full of complaints."
Moore, who described the situation as "boring and sad", added: "They [the changes] are not in the long-term interest of the sport. Hopefully we can see sense and get back to the way things were. I think the old rules were fine and if they want to go back to them but bring in stronger penalties, perhaps that is the way."
Moore calls for a return to the old whip rules
BY STUART RILEY 8:16PM 19 OCT 2011
THREE-TIME champion jockey Ryan Moore became the latest jockey to speak out against the new whip rules on Wednesday evening, stating his discontent with the whole situation and calling for a return to the old rules.
Contradicting a statement released earlier in the day by PJA chief executive Kevin Darley, stating that the jockeys were in favour of reducing the number of strikes permitted under the old rules, Moore called the limit of seven "too low".
"In my view these new whip rules won't work," Moore said. "Everyone came out and said it was for the good of the sport without really thinking what it meant before everything got out of control.
"It is ruining the sport, Kevin [Darley] has been forced into finding a compromise. The fact is seven [strikes] is too low, but we couldn't go in and say we need to hit horses more because that doesn't look good, and that's supposed to be what this is allabout.
"The jockeys asked for clarity, but I'm not happy with the number [seven], it's just too low. How can seven be fine, but eight is too much, it doesn't make sense. You can't put a number on what is abuse, you could hit a horse once and it could be abuse and you could hit a horse 20 times and it wouldn't be.
"No-one wants to see horses abused and if a young lad hits a horse unnecessarily, the senior guys will pull him aside and set him straight. We all love horses and would never abuse them."
On the need for the whip in a race, Moore, who was speaking on Racing UK, added: "Once a horse comes under pressure, you need to keep them up to it or they relax, there's no pain, but it is just getting them to respond and concentrate.
"It makes racing less competitive, you have to ride every horse the same way, some it will suit, but many it won't."
On Monday's meeting with the BHA, Moore added: "The BHA gave the impression they were under pressure to make these changes; they said they had two mailbags full of complaints."
Moore, who described the situation as "boring and sad", added: "They [the changes] are not in the long-term interest of the sport. Hopefully we can see sense and get back to the way things were. I think the old rules were fine and if they want to go back to them but bring in stronger penalties, perhaps that is the way."
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wish there were more like him among the jockeys. And if there are, they need to get together quickly and get a voice. None of this compromising with wusses stuff we have seen so far
Robert Thornton is also saying publically that wants the whip limit raised.
That PJA statement yesterday saying that jockeys have no issue with the limits just beggars belief, imo.
That PJA statement yesterday saying that jockeys have no issue with the limits just beggars belief, imo.
"The jockeys asked for clarity, but I'm not happy with the number [seven], it's just too low. How can seven be fine, but eight is too much, it doesn't make sense.
nothing else needs to be said!
nothing else needs to be said!
On Monday's meeting with the BHA, Moore added:
"The BHA gave the impression they were under pressure to make these changes; they said they had two mailbags full of complaints."
------------------------------------
'Tell that to the Marines'.
"The BHA gave the impression they were under pressure to make these changes; they said they had two mailbags full of complaints."
------------------------------------
'Tell that to the Marines'.
So if we all send in letters asking for Roy to feck off and resign - will we get our wish?
I also can't believe the PJA have no issue with the limit. How can you put a limit on whip use if all horses react differently, all courses ride differently. Surely it is the force used that is important. Now a jock has to divert his concentration from the race to consider the number used. How long will it be before one is fined for not riding out to obtain the best finish or is threatened by a disgruntled punter. Surely the answer is to keep the rules as before and allow stewards the provision to fine/ban heavily. I doubt there are any jocks who deliberately seek to injure a horse-and I know a couple who can't count up to seven.
the jocks problem with the old rules were the inconsistent and apparently varying application of penalties, fines and bans.
I think it was the jockeys who actually asked for a limit in the first place, wasn't it?
Personally think the new limits are too low, maybe 10 for flat and 15 for jumps, no final furlong or last fence malarkey.
The penalty should be simple disqualification and a ban for the jockey.
No fines, unless it comes under the category of clear cruelty or blatant abuse of the horse
I think it was the jockeys who actually asked for a limit in the first place, wasn't it?
Personally think the new limits are too low, maybe 10 for flat and 15 for jumps, no final furlong or last fence malarkey.
The penalty should be simple disqualification and a ban for the jockey.
No fines, unless it comes under the category of clear cruelty or blatant abuse of the horse
pedrobob, if it is a fact that being whacked by the new whip does not hurt horses why any limit?
2 mail bags aint a lot, is it? This has been a knee jerk reaction based on feck all by the BHA,barring a few obtuse articles in the likes of the Daily Mail etc
wee eck, as much as we don't like it and whether the stick hurts or not, there is a perception issue fron the general public's point of view, and racing is right to deal with it. (But gree with those comments about educating the public about the whip too)
10 strikes in a flat race is plenty, if a horse doesn't respond to that, then it won't go for any more (Dick Pitman said about Fred Winter in the same line that the number was "one")
15 or 20 would be plenty for jumps, no? Same scenario, if the horse ism't going to respond to that number, then the jock should give in and acknowledge he has no more to give.
As mentioned earlier, there is a practical rules point where the jockeys themselves asked for a limit so that they "knew where they stood", was a line often expressed I think
10 strikes in a flat race is plenty, if a horse doesn't respond to that, then it won't go for any more (Dick Pitman said about Fred Winter in the same line that the number was "one")
15 or 20 would be plenty for jumps, no? Same scenario, if the horse ism't going to respond to that number, then the jock should give in and acknowledge he has no more to give.
As mentioned earlier, there is a practical rules point where the jockeys themselves asked for a limit so that they "knew where they stood", was a line often expressed I think
FD, The power behind the throne in all this controversy are the RSPCA,
if folk are sure that the new whip is not detrimental to a horses welfare
the RSPCA should be challenged to do its worst and bring a prosecution
against a Jockey or two whom they allege have abused horses,let a judge
and jury decide whether excessive use of something that apparently does
not hurt or mark is abusive or cruel.
if folk are sure that the new whip is not detrimental to a horses welfare
the RSPCA should be challenged to do its worst and bring a prosecution
against a Jockey or two whom they allege have abused horses,let a judge
and jury decide whether excessive use of something that apparently does
not hurt or mark is abusive or cruel.
Good point there by Wee Eck ; the RSPCA's bluff should have been called.
They are a fine organisation to talk (not), preferring to put animals down.
They are a fine organisation to talk (not), preferring to put animals down.
wee eck, I think I'm right in saying the RSPCA have not asked for a limited number - they are more concerned by how the whip is used - and are against it being used in the forehand position.
George, if being struck by the new whip hurts a horse ban it, if not why all the furore?
the rspca have categorically stated they do and will never seek to ban the whip
the rspca have categorically stated they do and will never seek to ban the whip
Well FD, according to Paul Struthers, we were close to losing the RSPCA after last years National. If this is the case then the individual who said that needs to clarify the situation with the racing industry, if it was the case of dead horses being shown on television then camera angles need to be looked at more closely, as thats what really set the media frenzy,
Well FD, according to Paul Struthers, we were close to losing the RSPCA after last years National. If this is the case then the individual who said that needs to clarify the situation with the racing industry, if it was the case of dead horses being shown on television then camera angles need to be looked at more closely, as thats what really set the media frenzy,
Perhaps the Patron of the RSPCA should speak her mind.
are they tuned to the fecking moon, I would need to watch the whole of last years GN but I am fairly sure that the horses that died had not even seen the whip let alone been touched by it, if you dont want the carnage that we had last year to happen again its simple, lower the fences, cut back the distance and limit the number of runners.....I actually believe that if you cut the field down to 30 it would greatly reduce the pile ups
The fences being lower are whats causing the problem FD, its the modern drainage systems on NH course are TOO good imo.
They are going much too fast going down to the 1st and the race needs a radical rethink, there was a very good suggestion about digging up the course and remodeling it along the lines of the Cross Country chase at Cheltenham, limit it to around 25-30, Have a few more turns and call it the New National, they wont be able to go such a pelt either.
Only trouble is that the public might get sick to the sight of Enda Bolger
They are going much too fast going down to the 1st and the race needs a radical rethink, there was a very good suggestion about digging up the course and remodeling it along the lines of the Cross Country chase at Cheltenham, limit it to around 25-30, Have a few more turns and call it the New National, they wont be able to go such a pelt either.
Only trouble is that the public might get sick to the sight of Enda Bolger
Ryan Moor is far too reasonable, C.Soumillon
used one extra strike of the whip to ensure his mount won on champions day
and yet he does not comment on it
Suppose Moor had been just as uninhibited by the whip rules as Soumillon was that day and had thought to himself ,' I am going for one more hit than my rival ‘ , what ever number that was ,
would Moor not then have been two strokes of the whip better off . One stroke to make level the whip use and an extra one to cheat ?
If the BHA do not rescind Soumillons fine ...then in answer to where
the missing purse money for his first past the post ride is simple ...it should go to
Moor , if it does not then he should sue imo
used one extra strike of the whip to ensure his mount won on champions day
and yet he does not comment on it
Suppose Moor had been just as uninhibited by the whip rules as Soumillon was that day and had thought to himself ,' I am going for one more hit than my rival ‘ , what ever number that was ,
would Moor not then have been two strokes of the whip better off . One stroke to make level the whip use and an extra one to cheat ?
If the BHA do not rescind Soumillons fine ...then in answer to where
the missing purse money for his first past the post ride is simple ...it should go to
Moor , if it does not then he should sue imo
There will still be millions of people betting on next years National. The memory of dying horses last year will be a distant memory. The public only think about racing once a year, and most wouldnt give a toss about how many strikes of the whip you can administer.
yeh I had heard that the faster pace was a reason for the pile ups, personally I think the limiting of the numbers will go a long way to ensuring a safer race, but that could mean that a short priced fav might win then the bookies equivalent to xmas will be ruined.
Blackrock they seem easy enough to whip in to a frenzy when the Daily Mail decides that something ffs...
Blackrock they seem easy enough to whip in to a frenzy when the Daily Mail decides that something ffs...
Ensuring a slower pace is easy.Aim for good to soft ground. Todays Daily Mail is tomorrows chip paper.
"You can't put a number on what is abuse, you could hit a horse once and it could be abuse and you could hit a horse 20 times and it wouldn't be."
Well done Ryan - you couldn't have made a better case for banning it altogether imo. The more these dull feckers say, the bigger the hole keeps getting.
Well done Ryan - you couldn't have made a better case for banning it altogether imo. The more these dull feckers say, the bigger the hole keeps getting.
context gerry context, he could mean you hit a horse that has an injury or had just been kicked by another or he could mean a jockey on another horse hits another horse
FD
I expect that's just what Moore / the jockeys wanted - someone having to clarify or give context to the interview you've just given! You could drive a coach and horses through the entire piece. It's laughable.
I expect that's just what Moore / the jockeys wanted - someone having to clarify or give context to the interview you've just given! You could drive a coach and horses through the entire piece. It's laughable.
Gerry - i know you are anti-whip and that is your choice. But if we ban the whip, and turn racing into hands and heel races, the turnover in gambling will go through the floor.
And your evidence for that Blackrock is what exactly?
I suppose ryan is being naive in thinking that the reader might be able to contextualise for himself
"No-one wants to see horses abused and if a young lad hits a horse unnecessarily, the senior guys will pull him aside and set him straight. We all love horses and would never abuse them." - If it weren't for the fact that Moore clearly does not have a sense of humour, I'd swear this was a wind up piece.
GG do you really think the whip is cruel? Personally I think there are quite a number of things in the sport that are cruel and unnecessary but the whip has never been one of them.
Hope Ryan pulled those two young guys Spencer & Dettori aside.
FD
It could be cruel, as Moore himself confirmed in this piece. For me though, it's neither necessary or natural; horses running and jumping is natural - horses being hit with a stick is not.
It could be cruel, as Moore himself confirmed in this piece. For me though, it's neither necessary or natural; horses running and jumping is natural - horses being hit with a stick is not.
That's what I mean Feck; it's like getting advice on medicine from Harold Shipman!
ah but a horse running and jumping with a bloke on top is not natural either is it? even if he is totty
But it's not cruel and it does 'look' natural FD. And like it or not, perception is really important.
i can assure you if i got on a horse it would be cruel and would look far from natural, the point i am trying to make is that as soon as man interacts with any animal natures laws are bypassed.
ever seen a sheep dog and master work their magic, looks like man and animal in perfect harmony, but to get the dog to do what it does is far harmonious for the dog i can assure you
ever seen a sheep dog and master work their magic, looks like man and animal in perfect harmony, but to get the dog to do what it does is far harmonious for the dog i can assure you
AND we need to STOP making donations to certain influential charities. That's not to say stop entirely because there are more worthwhile charitable organisations out there who aren't fronted by gob****s.
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