Well that proves sectional times as bollox

Proves nothing of the sort.

All I'm hearing now is James being staggered by the sectionals !

Anyone saying sectionals aint worth while is taliking $h!te tbh

James said best to do a 15, 12 and 12, she did about 13 something, 11 something 11 something, suggesting she'd gone too fast.

think we are about to find out that the furlong markers are not what they seem....

The point is Celtic , we wouldn't know what she did without sectionals.

wouldnt take ascots sectionals as gospel till we have a large database to review.

imo there is something up with this track since they relaid it.

Suggests Harbinger wasnt the greatest ever as plenty on here suggested after his King George

The winner was showing no signs of stopping either.

Interesting thought pedrobob. The way racing is organized in this country,it wouldn't surprise me if the furlong markers were placed 'approxiamately' where they're supposed to be !

All 3 races so far won with a horse well to the fore all the way
Frontrunners track like crayford today.

id agree with the markers being wrong nothing surprises me with uk racing

climbs and dips on Ascot round course....one furlong not the same as the next

@ thread

good lord!

The furlong poles are all over the place on UK racecourses.

The point I'm trying to illustrate if it's all well and good saying that'll be too fast or slow prior to a race, and then afterwards saying, wow, she must be a top-class horse to have done those sectionals.

great time w/o excessive whip too. superstar

some sort of compound in the ground NAP

nothing wrong with surface G1....not according to my bank account anyway [;)]

not complaining
just wondering why it rides so different to the last track

willo had a stopwatch,sectionals,beyer speed figures,and lord snooty gushing off his every word and they think they saw a smart horse,my aunt fanny glanced up from her knitting and said that looks like a good horse,i,m getting her cv off to ruk ffs willo give it a rest

yes, think Willo guilty of trying too hard to make some sense of them.....Celtic your gripe should be aimed at Willo rather than sectionals

Harbinger will always be a mystery... and imho IS a little over-rated based on his two Ascot runs... BUT on the day he blew away the field in a v fast time and you have to respect that - for me. STS was a different league to Harbinger...

Sectionals are vital and v revealing - for sure we have too little info over here yet to make conclusive judgements but the eyes and brain and times tell you Frankel's Sussex STakes run was deeply impressive, not least because of the times in the last three furlongs

Nathaniel did similar splits there to Dancing Rain and wasn't placed ffs

what's your point, CS?

If it did the same sort of splits, how come it was so easily cut down? Appreciate if was a different distance, but not by a great deal, hardly was a mile or sprint trip, so if he's Nathaniel's doing those spilts, and he's already a proven Group 1 performer, how did he not last for much longer?

If an 80-rated horse did the same splits as Dancing Rain, it would weaken like billy-o....if a 2m horse did the same splits, it would fold cos it shouldnt be going that quick....if a horse that isnt 100% for whatever reason does same splits, it would pay for it later in race....just doing the same splits doesnt mean you are also going to win [smiley:crazy]

Both are proper Group 1 performers, why shouldn't they do the same splits. That's my point, of course a lower grade horse would fold up, but they can't be too far apart on class, and both can be noted as front runners.

It's all well and good using sectionals, but there must be a too fast pace that is different to a too slow one. Those races were not far off being the same, which lends me to believe there is no real point unless a horse does a 9 second furlong over 1m2f plus.

I'll have me turf sectionals done by next March hopefully...lol..

yep, they're not for you, CS. Cheers.

You can't give me a proper answer, you are just saying there is always an excuse if the sectionals don't work out.

have any of the 3 stooges operating on trac k tipped a winner frankel apart,pre race yet,
they seem very good post race

can't compare different distances just like that.

I havent got the will to give you a proper answer, mate.....mainly because i think you've made your mind up already....i'm not saying i'm right and you're wrong but they work for me. Cheers.

I'd like to use them, and I agree they ought to be really useful, but I still can't have it that Nathaniel can't run similar sectionals to Dancing Rain even over a similar sort of distance type but still not be vying for a place at the end.

Nathaniels a 12f bog horse....

maybe he wasnt 100% on faster grd than ideal after 3-months off? who knows. Sectionals only small part of the puzzle.