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Why Richard Hughes is in the wrong
Why Richard Hughes is in the wrong
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Replies: 148
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Good post,zebadei.
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Don't like the new rule and don't see that anything needed fixing - just pandering to the Daily Mail, but imo automatic disqualification should be brought in.
In the big Group 1 races the real value is not so much the prize money but the black type and prestige that a horse can take to the breeding sheds - so just banning the jockey and taking away his fee and winning percentage is not going to matter. If a horse wins after a jockey has hit it 20 times (like Dettori on Rewilding) how are the connections of the runner up, whose jockey abided by the rules going to feel to be denied a Group 1 win. I can see carnage at tomorrows Champions Day - jockeys banned in every race. |
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Take McCoys ride on Wichita Linesman at Cheltenham a couple of years ago - hailed as one of the greatest rides of all time by all and sundry. I don't know how many times he hit it but I'm pretty sure he would have fallen foul of the new rules. Without the whip he'd probably have been pulled up after a circuit
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Correct,unclepuncle - tomorrow is going to be a disaster.
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agreed unclepuncle, from here on there are only 2 logical conclusions, total whip ban or disqualification of offending winners
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If you disqualify horses for transgression of the rules (however minor), betting on horseracing would collapse.
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Roger you are talking complete rubbish. RH is not jockey who rides 'gambled on' horses. He works for Richard Hannon where the vast majority of his rides come and RH is as straight as there is. If any horse RH rides for RH shortens or drifts it is only because the price was wrong in the first place.
It is strange that so many on here think a horse shortening is because it is gambled on. Almost every time it is because the person who priced it up priced it up wrong. Of course there are gambles and horses laid out to win races but that is nor Hannon's 'modus operandi'. |
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What's wrong and will never get the public onside is the name of it "The Whip Rule" it needs to be changed
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yer ma, grendel is not well, Allan Jarvis, was crying at Salisbury, said,'the winner should be diqualifid, because Harry Bentley broke the rules', he had the 2nd, , "surprize surpize", AJ, has never broke the rules, i'm still baffled, as to why he lost his training licence for was it 5 years ?, and he would be the firist to start screaming from the roof tops, if his horse lost a race for a whip offence, and as far as that eget, grenel, is concerned "eget", Jocks/Trainers/Owners, having there horse layed, would have a field day, in running or not, it would be a killer, 10 clear over the last, and one more slap, and Bobs your CASH, i have all ready commented on Allan Jarvis and Honest Joe, alias, Ferdie Murphy, a pair of Hypocrites.
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exactly steaky,(would be interesting how long the in running markets would last in such a scenario). 1.01 7 reminders 1000 for 8 reminders, that extra reminder in the last 10 yds .
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all that would happen zeb is in-running would become first past the post in seperate markets
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Sorry Grendel if the horse is fav and I lay it before the and it wins but gets 8 hits (as agreed) then is that not easier & less risky than taking a pull, getting behind etc.
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Some horses which are difficult rides are going to struggle to get a jockey .
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There is no doubt that "the whip" has galvanised some horses into winning in the past. Presumably that type of horse will no longer have a place in racing. I wonder how this is going to affect Cheltenham and the National
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Imagine disqualifying the horse... would be a layers dream... Instructions to a jockey - if you are a couple of clear and have used your 7 whips hit it one more time so you lose the race and we can all cash in laying at 1.01.
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'It is strange that so many on here think a horse shortening is because it is gambled on. Almost every time it is because the person who priced it up priced it up wrong. '
Not really pertinent to this thread but i agree that this is a major blindspot for a lot on here and leads to them believing the game is more corrupt than it is. |
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why are some on here so concerned about the 1.01 in-running thieves, their welfare should not come into this equation
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I'm worried by these new rules. Does this mean jockeys will have to put their horses in a position to win earlier? will they be able to keep less up their sleeves? only 5 strikes in the last 10/12 secs! next thing they won't be allowed to bunch up on the rails and be "unlucky"
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As i keep saying, Racing is judged by the General Public on one race a year, so apply stricter rules to the race only. it just wasnt the whip as the beebs overhead shots showed dead horses and the media had a field day so the RSPCA had to react and now we've got ourselves into a fine mess
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Anaglogs.Thats been half the battle, that fat Basta*d Mac The Mouth, continually screaming ban the Whip, "to get noticed outside the little horse racing box,for his benifit, he is not a horse lover, as he demonstrighted, as a pundit on a race night game, i walked in on one, during the interval, they were showing clips of so called funny incidents on the racecourse, jockeys getting dumped, ect, but they also showed a horse running loose at Doncaster, with a blind fold on, it ran through the rails onto the golf course, and back onto the course, crashing through the rails, and crashed through the rails on the stand side slippig up on the road, and blind fold came off, during this period (lasted about 15 mins), Animal lover, The Bastr*d McCririck, was howling with laughter and roared evey time it crashed through the rail, when the horse slipped up and slid along the ground,he let a the biggist roar of sicking laughter, FACT.100% FACT. and it is not a Whip, as that is derogertay and is used by the likes of The Basta*d, its nothing more than a persuader these days.
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^ Good Post Zil
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Whilst I agree it was unprofessional to let owners down for the rest of the card, I am 100% behind Hughes. At least he has had the gumption to do something instead of just moaning. Of course he wouldnt have done it if he was still in the race for the Jockeys Championship, and was most aggrieved about missing the Breeders Cup, but so what?
The rules are an absolute farce and seriously put the sport we love in jeopardy. The best way to make the BHA see this, is by people actually making a stand, and not just blowing hot air. |
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am a great admirer of Richard Hughes and a lot of sympathy with his action last night, though obviously done in heat of moment.
Roger makes some good points about the use of the whip that Hughsie made on 2 different Hannon horses, Available and More than Words. If you were a backer of the first and a layer of the second, you would have difficulty thinking that it was the same jockey who administered no use of the whip to one with a race behind her and over the limit on a presumably green 2yo having its first appearance. One drifted in the market (and a heavily backed horse won the race), one was backed. It would appear that the market determined the no of hits administered by the jockey? Was also perturbed by Hughsie's comment after he led home a Hannon 1-2 (Operettist beat Traveller's Tales)at Salisbury in a photo finish on Monday. Neither rider used the whip in the final furlong as they raced clear of the pack. When prompted by Lydia, Hughsie replied "there was no need for either rider to hit their horses, they were both trained by Richard Hannon....." I wonder what the backers of the second thought of that throwaway remark? Maybe the second would have responded for a tap of the whip and won? Goes contrary to Brigust's (who speaks a lot of sense) comments about the modus operandi of the Hannon yard which has a surprising number of long priced second strings win races. Maybe Hughsie was on the one the yard had backed that day at Salisbury, and the rider of the second was under instructions not to beat his stablemate and hence why that rider did not have recourse to use of the whip? Did the market determine the number of whip strikes again? |
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With all due respect to Brigust, I think he is being a touch naive.
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I haven't seen the races you refer to Pedro but I will.
The Hughsie comment was because Hughsie and Moore both knew the winner was by far the best horse, and won very easily, so beating up the 2nd would have been pointless and counterproductive. Had the 2nd been from another yard questions may have been asked as to why the jockey never hit the horse. Don't read into it more than there is. |
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Won't Richard be heading off soon to ride in his usual winter haunt, India, or is that a different jockey?
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Richard Hughes does ride in India.
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McCoy's ride on Mini Sensation at Exeter a few years ago was even more amazing than Wichita , would have got 10 years for that now , new rules are moronic , simple as that.
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Some form of justification is conventional BobSivier. Why are they "moronic"? Why aren't the jockeys who break them moronic?
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There are 3 quite separate issues.
1. Are the new rules correct? Probably not but worth a try and then review them. I don't think that the final furlong bit makes any sense. 2. Are the penalties correct? Perhaps a bit harsh but the riders ignored the weak penalties that were there before. I have known a few jockeys over the years and most of them enjoy breaking the rules (and the driving laws) if they can get away with it. They are risk takers by nature and few of them will take any notice of reasoned argument. 3. Is Richard Hughes out of order in handing in his license and inconveniencing his owners, trainer, ante post punters etc. for Champions day mounts? Definitely yes. |
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In the opinion of many race followers this new rule is wrong. The whip is not cruel to horses and this is accepted by the expert who studied this. The decision is to appease "public opinion" but it seems the opinion came from survey(s) carried out by companies that do this. I don't know who they asked or quite what the questions were. The BHA has screwed up on this one and will have to think of a way to get out of it whilst keeping some dignity. It is like the one false start disqualification in athletics - a mistake and this rule will have to be abolished.
The rule is wrong. If you seriously believe that then you must stand up and fight it. "he is a senior jockey at the top end of the game." Who better to stand up to it than a senior? "who will more often than not speak to the press and to the general man at the track" Perfect the press already speak to the guy and he has had lots of media attention. "effectively blackmail its rulers for his errors" No this is not about him getting a ban for use of the whip this is about the errors of the BHA in bringing the ban in in the first place. "basically sanction a mutiny just two days before Ascot's showpiece end-of-season championship event" Good let Ascot go down completely. Let the BHA look so stupid they all have to resign or get sacked. Let this turn bad on them. They brought in this rule and they must be accountable for it. "- it sends the message to young jockeys that they can do as they please when they have the power as an established star," When the "rulers of racing" become unaccountable something has gone wrong. It shows that they can be made accountable. The rule is wrong. The "rulers" have screwed up. Do not protect these people, it is their mistake. "it is totally unprofessional to have given up his remaining rides yesterday" When you reach the line in the sand, that is when you should act. He stated he was not doing his owners justice and could not ride the horses to their maximum potential. He would not ride them for that reason. This is not unprofessional, quite the opposite. "do you think the owners of those horses were happy with that decision? Or the punters who backed them earlier in the day? I'm quite sure they wanted him in the plate regardless of whether he felt he could give them the best of rides." The rule is wrong. The BHA is banning jockeys on the basis of a rule that is wrong. Do they worry about the owners, jockeys and punters? Seems not, they worry about their new rule and covering up their mistakes. |
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I for one think one of two things should happen tomorrow.
Either 1) all the Jockeys strike at Ascot until more sensible and thought through rules are instated or 2) all jockey's should ignore the new whip rules and accrue bans until no more racing can take place because the no jockeys are legible to ride. Either way - BHA has egg on its face and this whole debarcle gets sorted out now. |
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Thanks for mentioning that Wichita Lineman ride. Ever considered he found himself so far back purely because he didn't jump or travel for McCoy? The horse travelled a good deal better when he was ridden by Timmy Murphy.
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Brigust, hardly know anyone with inside info, but have certainly been aware of a few Hannon plots over the years where they've lined up a handicap touch or in one case, put in a fancied runner (morning fav, but drifted) with form into a maiden, only for it to be tailed off and well beaten by a heavily gambled (10/1 into 3/1) winner where the "outside" jock beat the carp out of it to win.
I think your view that the Hannon yard is not a gambling yard is a little misguided. Plenty of their horses make draconian improvement often defying the form book.... and are heavily backed at the same time |
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pedro and roger have it right I think. Well explained. ( New rules will make arranging outcomes a bit more difficult poss?)
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should have pointed out that the 10/1 into 3/1 winner was a stablemate, with the stable jock on the morning fav
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totally gree with opening post,just like recent yellow flag incident where jockeys either dont know or think they know better than rules....lets all start driving through red lights "if we think its alright"....
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further to comments about the prices of his rides....how ridiculous...so if youve backed a longshot you dont expext the jockey to try just as hard??? well if thats the case we might s well all give up gambling...surely everone is supposed to be doing their best...
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but the problem is that authorites often put down traffic lights where they aren't needed..... let alone allow said lights to turn red.....
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The British have been pandering to all save the whale groups for years now..........horse racing gets it now.........lets hope it doesn't go down the the route of your greyhound racing.
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