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13 Oct 11
14:19
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05 Jan 10
Chris McGrath, Racing Correspondent http://www.independent.co.uk/
Many were mystified when the British Horseracing Authority chose this, of all weeks, as the right one to introduce riders to the culture shock of its new whip rules. But while John Gosden could conceivably see his stable jockey forfeit his share of the biggest prize offered on the British Turf, should William Buick happen to miscalculate at Ascot on Saturday, as ever he is reserving his gravest concern for the bigger picture.
The trainer who hopes to win the Qipco Champion Stakes with Nathaniel stressed that his anger has nothing to do with radical changes in the definition and punishment of whip offences. But he is incandescent about their timing, believing that the industry's news agenda has been unnecessarily perverted in the days leading up to its new showcase.
Since Monday, the trade press has been full of the disquiet inevitable among jockeys struggling to adjust. "I am mortified," Gosden said yesterday. "For the presentation of horseracing, we require Qipco Champions' Day to be hitting all the headlines this week. To introduce the new regulations on Monday reminds me of the way the BHA released news of a ban for Harry Findlay [the gambler and owner] on the Saturday before Royal Ascot last year.
"Yet again, it's gross ill timing – unless it's deliberately intended, through a 'police' mentality of bringing maximum exposure. To my mind, it does nothing but damage racing, and paint it in a negative light when we're trying to exhibit the new Champions' Day at Ascot. End of story."
Certainly it seems unfathomable why the new regime could not have been delayed a month, enabling riders to test the water discreetly on the all-weather circuit. "I'd have thought it highly intelligent to introduce the new regulations during the winter – let everyone absorb it, and try and work with it," Gosden said. "But to launch it at the start of this week smacks of sensationalism. I'm not talking about what the new regulations are – but the timing is beyond appalling."
As it happens, Gosden is among those with reservations about the timing of the new meeting itself. He would prefer a date in September, but is gratified that the October experiment has not backfired in another respect – even if Nathaniel himself would appreciate easy ground. "I'm pleased for the meeting, because one of the big worries about staging it now would have been a day of driving wind and rain," he said. "I hope they get lovely weather and good to firm ground."
Incidentally, any tempted by odds as short as 8-1 against Elusive Kate for the Qipco 1,000 Guineas must heed the possibility that the filly will remain in the United States after the Breeders' Cup next month. Gosden confirmed that the Prix Marcel Boussac winner, out of a half-sister to a Breeders' Cup Classic winner in Pleasantly Perfect, is likely to be offered at an auction in Kentucky two days after the Juvenile Fillies' Turf
Many were mystified when the British Horseracing Authority chose this, of all weeks, as the right one to introduce riders to the culture shock of its new whip rules. But while John Gosden could conceivably see his stable jockey forfeit his share of the biggest prize offered on the British Turf, should William Buick happen to miscalculate at Ascot on Saturday, as ever he is reserving his gravest concern for the bigger picture.
The trainer who hopes to win the Qipco Champion Stakes with Nathaniel stressed that his anger has nothing to do with radical changes in the definition and punishment of whip offences. But he is incandescent about their timing, believing that the industry's news agenda has been unnecessarily perverted in the days leading up to its new showcase.
Since Monday, the trade press has been full of the disquiet inevitable among jockeys struggling to adjust. "I am mortified," Gosden said yesterday. "For the presentation of horseracing, we require Qipco Champions' Day to be hitting all the headlines this week. To introduce the new regulations on Monday reminds me of the way the BHA released news of a ban for Harry Findlay [the gambler and owner] on the Saturday before Royal Ascot last year.
"Yet again, it's gross ill timing – unless it's deliberately intended, through a 'police' mentality of bringing maximum exposure. To my mind, it does nothing but damage racing, and paint it in a negative light when we're trying to exhibit the new Champions' Day at Ascot. End of story."
Certainly it seems unfathomable why the new regime could not have been delayed a month, enabling riders to test the water discreetly on the all-weather circuit. "I'd have thought it highly intelligent to introduce the new regulations during the winter – let everyone absorb it, and try and work with it," Gosden said. "But to launch it at the start of this week smacks of sensationalism. I'm not talking about what the new regulations are – but the timing is beyond appalling."
As it happens, Gosden is among those with reservations about the timing of the new meeting itself. He would prefer a date in September, but is gratified that the October experiment has not backfired in another respect – even if Nathaniel himself would appreciate easy ground. "I'm pleased for the meeting, because one of the big worries about staging it now would have been a day of driving wind and rain," he said. "I hope they get lovely weather and good to firm ground."
Incidentally, any tempted by odds as short as 8-1 against Elusive Kate for the Qipco 1,000 Guineas must heed the possibility that the filly will remain in the United States after the Breeders' Cup next month. Gosden confirmed that the Prix Marcel Boussac winner, out of a half-sister to a Breeders' Cup Classic winner in Pleasantly Perfect, is likely to be offered at an auction in Kentucky two days after the Juvenile Fillies' Turf
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Now hold on there, Big John. I'm a fan, I'd even go as far as to call you 'my guilty pleasure', BUT - you are unhappy at the timing of the new whip rules, suggesting, rightly many would argue, that they have derailed the advertising push for BCD. So, in an effort to steer the ship back on course, you shoot your mouth off about the timing thereby prolonging the story - even adding a new dimension to it - when, as you rightly point out, we should be concentrating on the build up to Saturday.
Not his finest hour, imo.
Not his finest hour, imo.
The Headmaster
You appear to be an inveterate apologist for the BHA PR department.
You appear to be an inveterate apologist for the BHA PR department.
I think The Headmaster has made a perfectly valid pint Onlooker - you put a fire out by starving it of oxygen.
Thanks GG.
Onlooker - I'm sorry to say you have yet to achieve the role of forum police. If we don't always (or ever!) agree there's no need for the personals.....it seems to be an achilles heel of yours. Play the post, not the man.
Oh....and cheer up a bit, eh?
Onlooker - I'm sorry to say you have yet to achieve the role of forum police. If we don't always (or ever!) agree there's no need for the personals.....it seems to be an achilles heel of yours. Play the post, not the man.
Oh....and cheer up a bit, eh?
I think The Headmaster has made a perfectly valid pint Onlooker - you put a fire out by starving it of oxygen.
However you dont ignore who started the fire. I look forward to the FA consulting the WI on goal line Technology
However you dont ignore who started the fire. I look forward to the FA consulting the WI on goal line Technology
zilzal - the BHA may have (unintentionally) started the fire but that's no excuse for all and sundry pouring on petrol is it?
Apologies, zil. I was merely responding to AD's original post and offering my view on Mr Gosden's latest thoughts. I didn't feel the need to rake over all the coals again and wouldn't assume that anyone was interested if I did. 
All they needed to do to "Not Lose the RSPCA" was to apply strict Rules to the Grand National because thats all most of the public give a flying fig about, 99% wouldnt even know about festivals, Arc, Breeders Cup et al.
You would complain if your own livelihood were affected
You would complain if your own livelihood were affected
Hope you've sobered up after the trip to Paris TM, Trust it wasnt a bad result for you
You would indeed; just don't understand how anyone's livelihood is being affected here!
Id imagine a lot of jocks would disagree with that GG, very hard to keep within the guidelines esp in close handicaps.
Will be interesting this weekend, im saving my powder until it settles down
Will be interesting this weekend, im saving my powder until it settles down
If I understand correctly Mr Gosden now wants good to firm ground for Nathaniel,or did he have his tongue in his cheek?
Think he wants 'autumn good to firm' rather than summer 'good to firm'.
zilzal1, they already had strict rules for the Grand National, and Jason Maguire got a five day ban.
And that's the problem. What the BHA needed to do was not reduce the limits but simply to disqualify any horse whose rider breaks the rules.
It has now engineered a complete mess with unpopular and impractical rules that still retain an incentive to cheat when the stakes are high.
And that's the problem. What the BHA needed to do was not reduce the limits but simply to disqualify any horse whose rider breaks the rules.
It has now engineered a complete mess with unpopular and impractical rules that still retain an incentive to cheat when the stakes are high.
I would think he is saying he hopes that Ascot get decent fast ground for their championship meeting even if that won't ideally suit his horse
jockeys sitting still on horses travelling well then hanging and confused even to swap whip hand is not good for the game! and anyone who tells ya different is talking b o l l o c ks.[>o]
I hope the Rothschild family approve of his magnanimity.
I am beginning to wonder if the Champion Stakes was not the plan all along for his charge.
I am beginning to wonder if the Champion Stakes was not the plan all along for his charge.
Ramruna, that would kill turnover. Make the National have these rules and leave other racing alone.
Im beginning to wonder whether the race is actually worth it any more as it seems like the whole of racing is judged on this one event.
I would actually sacrifice the race
Im beginning to wonder whether the race is actually worth it any more as it seems like the whole of racing is judged on this one event.
I would actually sacrifice the race
05 Oct 03
| Topic/replies: 7,258 | Blogger: zilzal1's blog
Hope you've sobered up after the trip to Paris TM, Trust it wasnt a bad result for you[/i]
I backed Dandream at 1000 ante-post, Shareta at 1000 ante-post and Snow Fairy at 1000 ante-post, zil. This is extremely unlikely to ever happen again!!!
Couple of things have had me knashing my teeth a bit subsequently, though. Was up to 33K green at one point and gave back over 10K of it. And Betfair have properly rogered me as well, or are trying to anyway. Bit of a sour taste then.....although maybe I'm just a greedy fook!!!
| Topic/replies: 7,258 | Blogger: zilzal1's blog
Hope you've sobered up after the trip to Paris TM, Trust it wasnt a bad result for you[/i]
I backed Dandream at 1000 ante-post, Shareta at 1000 ante-post and Snow Fairy at 1000 ante-post, zil. This is extremely unlikely to ever happen again!!!
Couple of things have had me knashing my teeth a bit subsequently, though. Was up to 33K green at one point and gave back over 10K of it. And Betfair have properly rogered me as well, or are trying to anyway. Bit of a sour taste then.....although maybe I'm just a greedy fook!!!
Great one TH, Trust the wife only got told you won a score then
Unless youve only just got back after having the winning hammered down the Champs Elysees
Unless youve only just got back after having the winning hammered down the Champs Elysees
The GN was spoilt because of the coverage of the deaths of Ornais and Dooneys Gate, also the fact that Ballabriggs was dehydrated, none of this was anything to do with the whip.
So they banned Jason for nothing and the excuse "We nearly lost the RSPCA" over this was complete and utter bollux then!!
No he broke the rules, but we who watch racing regularly see that all the time, Im talking about the general public that is what shocked them maybe if the General public knew the extent of deaths of horses in this game they would call for a complete ban.
Zilzal perhaps you think that Ballabriggs getting whipped is a worse sight than Erics Charm's leg dangling about broken beyond repair.
Zilzal perhaps you think that Ballabriggs getting whipped is a worse sight than Erics Charm's leg dangling about broken beyond repair.
Of course i didnt, that is as about as stupid as asking people who have no interest in the sport on how it should be run.
as with almost everything the 'general public' is given no credit whatsoever and is replaced by the media sensationalist view and vocal minority. I reckon they would a. not give a monkeys b. realise horses die all the time in whatever sphere they exist in c. stop watching the race before calling for anything (which they dont seem to be doing).
You can bet that 99.99% of the once a year Grand National watching GENERAL PUBLIC - who the BHA have chosen to appease -
will still be blissfully unaware that the Whip Rules have been changed.
will still be blissfully unaware that the Whip Rules have been changed.
Then we agree Steamship
However the BHA quoted that this whip ban was due to "Nearly losing the RSPCA" over the National
Therefore its bollux by the BHA
However the BHA quoted that this whip ban was due to "Nearly losing the RSPCA" over the National
Therefore its bollux by the BHA
I posted about the bad timing of the rule a few days ago,and the replies were mainly saying that they wanted it in for Ascot,due to the high profile image of the meeting,yet how high will the viewing figures be.I am sure the general public(Grand National watchers) will not be saying to themselves "we must watch Ascot,it is Qipco day,and there is big prize money on offer"
I posted similar, the other day, unbiased.
Apparently the BHA were flabbergasted when they found out that the Premier League were not postponing all their games.-
Still awaiting a reply from Asda and Tesco - as to whether they will be closing their stores on Saturday afternoon.
Apparently the BHA were flabbergasted when they found out that the Premier League were not postponing all their games.-
Still awaiting a reply from Asda and Tesco - as to whether they will be closing their stores on Saturday afternoon.
I thought onlooker that if you spent £50 instore you got 1/2 price Qipco ticket!
Oct 13, 2011 -- 3:53PM, onlooker wrote:
You can bet that 99.99% of the once a year Grand National watching GENERAL PUBLIC - who the BHA have chosen to appease -will still be blissfully unaware that the Whip Rules have been changed.
I don't think they will be unaware to that extent. People I know who do not follow racing have heard about it on the radio and media.
It is the word WHIP that is the problem.When the public think of the WHIP,they think of something that causes big wounds,as when people used to be lashed with a WHIP.
Very very few have any inkling as to what a cushion WHIP is.
New name required.
Very very few have any inkling as to what a cushion WHIP is.
New name required.
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