Is Horse Racing doomed?

The whip rule has changed things for the negatives it will produce. I can envisage far more 1.01's when horses go five lengths clear and then stop. It will happen in a big race before long and there will be all sorts of accusations .

Is anything happening that will make more people go and watch it and/or bet on it?

Is anything happening that will make less people go and watch it and/or bet on it?

Think it's going to change even more in the next few years.. And remember this ..if racing doesn't get enough funding from the layers and I mean all layers!.. Then yes it could well be doomed!!

You will get the casual racegoers who know f*** all. On Saturday a woman had 3 bets with Sunderlands in front of me.

£1 win 11/8
£1 ew  5/1
£1 ew  7/1

Not exactly gonna make the books work is it. I haven't been a smuch this year cos of lack of atmosphere, worse racing and cost. Also it is getting more iffy. God knows what the whip rule will do to Cheltenham. Think they better move final fence to 10 yards from line

^^^^ That was a joke in case Mr Gillespie is watching

Not doomed,but plenty will turn away from the game. Horse racing depends on betting,no betting no horse racing. You are talking about punters investing their hard earnt,if they lose that hard earnt through a jockey not giving his all,they will walk away

Ralph says it's getting iffy!.. For me the punter never had it so good!.. The margins are with us! Not the book anymore... BUT IT CANT CARRY ON ... Make the most of it....

The racing people who are recognisable to a wider audience have been vocal in supporting the new rules. They clearly have been persuasively coached in the belief that they will help stop the respect and interest in the sport flagging any further. A facade and all total nonsense.

Oaklands, wasn't on about margins. I mean that it is getting harder to spot some of the non triers even on here. The cheats are getting cuter all the time imo.

Oh yeah,. and Racing For Change are fookin useless too. Bigger numbers on cloths their major contribution

Take your point Ralph , and I think you are right!.. It did give me the chance to put across my thoughts

Your average punter will not even spot one having an easy in mid div.They will spot one inside the last 100 yards when the jockey puts the whip down because he is frightened of getting a ban and gets done a short head

Punters will eventually become disillusioned if this rule continues. It will drive them away in their droves. Betting shops are already full of Fbots and they will become even more popular which will suit the bookies. The BHA are just playing into the bookies hands.  The door will also be wide open now for non triers. All jockies will need to do is wave the whip around a horses rear and they have had their allocation. Easy peasy.

Giving his all, plenty of jocks give feckall encouragement.Must be the only SPORT were if you win by cheating  ..well..well you still win.How many of these complaining jocks can count up to 5 in two furlongs

I remember being at HQ once when the 6/4 second fav got taken out at the start.There was the obvious rule 4 and some pissed up racegoer was calling the bookie a cheat for not paying out the 5/1 or whatever price it was he took before it happened. What hope is there?

Councillor I tell you this! The shops may well be full of fobs.. The firms can no longer make money from horse racing!... Well not enough to cover the exes!... Without the fobs the shops will close!   FACT

oaklands- i live in a smallish town in suffolk. theres just a laddies and a joes. in the laddies , last year i think it was in the first 7 months they took £1.5 mill on their FOBT's.

Thats friggin unreal imho

That's what I'm saying Ralph!.. I would rather them take it on horses and pay the levy.. But they can't get a return on the horse racing as it is... It's sad!....

Indeed mate. You go in the shops and they are either playing poxy bingo or sitting around the roulett machine.

plus the virtual stuff and theres not as much dosh for proper racing innit

NO COLOUR NO ATMOSPHERE NO CHARACTERS IN THE RING.BROLLIES UP FOR THE SUN BROLLIES UP FOR THE RAIN, bookies heads stuck up computers arses.Jocks not tryin some tryin too hard.Game needs a total REVAMP any 1.01 this not happening

We have it too good on here when you think about it!.. We back horses right on the bone sometimes... How long can it go on for?.. Ok we moan about the high st boys, but do we want them to dissapear! I don't!

And the boys on course are their own worst enemies!

aye

despite the Bha trying  atract new blood all it has done is brought to attenttion that horses are hit to try to make them go faster to the new people into racing.
maybe in the future they will replace the winning post with a lollipop

BOOKIES on tracks must comply with AGT rules regulated board sizes,computer ticket printouts and so on and so on.ONCE the exchanges came in the result was synchronizes betting fluctulation all very bland as previous post

Why not get Alice Plunkett, Leslie Graham etc to take an item of clothing off every time they whip a horse? Every race would be hands and heels

And I forgot to mention the Premium Charge too

answer - no

yawn...

"New whip rules already affecting the way that I bet..."

Well good for you. Any professional punter will tell you that the way to win is to gain an edge on your competition. This often means ANY change that affects the game is good for those who want to make money IF they are prepared to put in the hard yards before the rest of your competition catches up.

Believe it or not, all you doom and gloom whip-loving merchants, we are all on a level playing field here because the new rules apply to EVERYONE. Can't believe how many whingers there are about this total non-issue.

Apologies in advance. Rant over!

Yawnnnnnnnn. Tomedeane you overlook one point. An awful lot of people base their choice on form and ratings. What you may or may not know is that a very large percentage of horses are rogues and many of them will only respond to the strongest urgings and therefore will no longer run up to their mark probably more so over the longer races and particularly over the sticks. Lots of horses end up chasing and hurdling because of their attitude. The upshot of this will be the current form book will be adversely affected by this change and there are some horses that are literally redundant so it is not a level playing field at all. It is not that simple.  It will take a season for this to work through

Councillor, a lot of people are rogues do you advocate whipping them to get the best out of them?

New form lines in racing post tomoz
Horses that dont respond to the whip
Horses with little or any response to the whip
Horses that respond well to the whip

you will find it near the draw bias stats

Why not. Could be fun for some of  the idiots that are about. .Some already pay for that typeof treatment lol.

So Captain why not ban the whip completely. The reason being because you know as does everyone else that racing would become a farce and that horses would be geed up behind closed doors prior to a race and that would be far worse. If you own a rogue are you just going to put him out to grass and see your investment go up in smoke, Dream on. I would prefer they made the whip even lighter and remove this stupid rule.  The rule has caused more controversy and cast light on the subject  for dogooders to latch on to when it should have been a low key affair. what they should have also done is increase the penalty for misuse

2honesthere you have obviously never ridden a race horse at all let alone in a race.

COUNCILLOR
SORRY did not realize this was a forum  strictly for winging jockeys

Its not we all have an opinion. However some of us dont take the pee out of those given by others.

tomdeane is spot on

Racing could have kept the old rules, or the rules before that, if only they'd bite the bullet and disqualify horses if the jockey breaks the rules.

The critics are right. Someone will go over the limit at Cheltenham or Aintree, or in a Classic, and then even more restrictive rules will be brought in.

And so it will continue until disqualification takes away the incentive to cheat.

Councillor -

I respect your opinion and always enjoy a reasoned debate on here (rather than a slanging match, which is often the case), but I do take issue with your view that it will adversely affect those that base their bets on form.

Surely the punters who are prepared to watch horses and their past performances in detail (the Hugh Taylors of this world) will be a step or two ahead of the opposition in knowing which horses are rogues and which are not. It isn't rocket science - just watch and take note surely? If a horse that you feel is well handicapped and improving has only been winning its races after maximum assistance with the whip, then perhaps the market is overestimating its chance now that 'aid' has been removed.

I honestly think this new development has opened up the door further to the true value seekers to profit. Of course there will be occasions when you get burned but that is no different now to how it has always been - how many times have you been done by a Ryan Moore drive overhauling your horse late on with Dickie Hills pushing away meekly? People would point to your error in backing Hills in that circumstance, so why would they be unfair in pointing to your error in backing a horse that is not entirely straightforward now the whip rule has changed?

We all just need to put in some harder work for a change, but as I said earlier, that is a good thing and will give the harder workers among us a big advantage!

Startling comments from William Buick to an ATR presenter yesterday " Id rather finish 2nd than risk breaking the rules ". Guess which jockey I wont be backing in a hurry

Unless his had his b0llocks on

^ incredible

Not sure whether Buick would stick to those comments if he was riding in a classic...

It seems obvious to me that new whip rule has made it much easier to fix races. I think we've seen examples already.

Always Trying mmmm wonder if M J changes his stable monicker will end up with no jockeys if there always going for it . Put yourself in a jockeys boots though its going to be a dangerous last few furlongs for some. Someones going to have to take a stand they are all going to go 1 over the limit if they have any sense that should sort something out one way or the other.

it's probably easier just to stick to betting on football in future.
(never thought I'd ever say that after all these years of loving UK horse racing)

can't believe that they altered the whole sport of horse racing just to appease the once a year grand national watchers who were badly misled last year by the BBC.

You can imagine a few at the BBC  salivating already hoping someone brays something this saturday can't you. Sorry state of affairs Horseracing is in when they have let The beeb cover meetings i can't see things ending well.

we went as a family to ripon last year went in the middle of course, first race was a 20 runner 2 year old seller, the noise of the whips cracking made me feel sick, best thing ever stopping whip abuse,its 2011 if a guy was whipping a horse in street to get him to move we would be all calling RSPCA

Also J fatboy Mcririck only in the game for self preservation never known a man change his mind so much on different points. His a bumbling oaf what he brings to the table god knows so he can wave his arms about and act like his 7 year old. He is a dinosaur i cannot honestly see what people see in him regarding racing , the face of racing my asre .Christ i need to calm down.

Think you have to stick to the better class races now though.

The question is though and Tom although he made some good points is missing this, will this new whip rule attract more new punters than it will lose over a longer term, because we all realise that the kind of Public perception is the one driven by extremist groups and their real aim is the abolition of the sport which jump racing will surely go 1st.

How would "Public Perception" react if you told them by making the National fences smaller hasnt saved any horses at all, its just enabled them to go faster and the deaths in the race if anything have increased since the 50s

The Whip.
When I learnt to ride as a teenager the riding school gave me a whip, I rode a horse called Buster who would not move without a slap. There are far worse things than the whip.

McCrirrick
Wants the whip banned, yet on the Sunday Forum he wants Frankel to run at the Breeders Cup. McCrirrick should be against all American racing if he is against the whip.

Buick
Probably saying Id rather be 2nd than break the rules. Fair enough.

BBC
Take racing from them they are doing nothing but harm to our sport.

We know these rules are a joke esp when cheating jockeys horse still keeps race, however lets hope they get used to it and it passes. I just dont know who this is for because the GN apart what other outcry has there been?

the dikler
agreed re: McCririck

the idea that punters  'being driven away in droves' is laughable.If the jockeys think that moaning about it is going to help ,they will have another think coming.It was brought on by themselves by exceeding /breaking the rules in the highest profile races.In a months time I believe it will be a distant memory,we well no doubt all see.