At long last a jockey that speaks the truth

He is right though, why should he risk not getting his wage by breaking the rules for somebody else to benefit?

wether we like it or not,hes 100% correct

But surley that goes under the "Not trying" file

But surley that goes under the "Not trying" file

not if he doesnt drop his hands ad

How? He is saying he will not break the rules to win and would rather stay within the rules and finish 2nd

Am i right in thinking its 8 times max for the whole race??

William Buick: "It's not worth getting done.You'd rather finish second"  .. in other words if i have a chance of winning by smacking the horse one more time(6th) i'm not going to. So in affect he's not going to try and win which makes him a non-trier.

Fantasy you can dress it up anyway you want but it was there for all to hear
"It's not worth getting done.You'd rather finish second" So feck the punters

So if you don't smack the horse you are a non trier? William Buick is correct in what he has said and is not breaking any rules. He is still trying to win the race but will not break the rules in his persuit to win the race. That is quite simple to understand

No he's saying he doesn't want to win by breaking the rules/cheating!

like an honest footballer saying he would rather stay on his feet than dive to win a penalty, staying within the rules, nothing to do with not trying.

Nathnaiel a head down on Champions Day 50 yards to go Buick has used his quota.....For £30,000 wages does he hit the horse or not...."It's not worth getting done.You'd rather finish second"...We'll see

Why don't they make it simple and disqualify the winner if the jockey breaks the rules.

If the jockey breaks the rules HE and soley HE is the one who loses out. The owner still gets his prize money, us punters still get paid out and the jock is the only one who gets done. Why should he break the rules to his own detrement and to everybody elses benefit?

WALOFS Anaglogs. If they had said "would you deliberately lean in on your main challenger on the rail if you knew you'd win by more than a sh hd" and he said no would that mean he was a non-trier.

Not really - he's saying he won't break the rules ie. he won't cheat to win.

If all jockeys just stuck to the rules we'd be fine.

It's a fecking ridicolus rule. Last day of the turf flat there will be hell to play everyone will be banned...except the AW Jockeys

Different ball game altogether Feckn eejit in that scenario Horse, Jockey, Owner, Trainer are all punished. The whip rule only the jockey is punished,

So it's OK to feck the punters if his sins will also be visited on someone else besides the punter? Like I said Anaglogs WALOFS.

anaglogs

no wages if he gets done for whip

jockey forfeits winning percentage and riding fee

I'm sure Barney is going to say get that horse home and all costs....Oh by the way there wont be any wages for you.

It is a ridiculous rule Anaglogs. They could remove all ambiguities by banning it altogether.

ab67     Joined: 05 Apr 06

Why don't they make it simple and disqualify the winner if the jockey breaks the rules.
------------------------------------

Do you want the Stands tearing down ?

A jockey, or Steward, being physically attacked - following a disqualification - by punters who have not only lost out on winnings - BUT ALSO LOST THEIR STAKE - Don't dismiss that, in this day and age.

- and betting turnover to PLUMMET to unsustainable levels?

Because ... If we have  that LOTTERY - of WORRYING after EVERY winner whether it is going to get 'thrown out', or not - then there will only be the 50p Lucky15 daydreamers left betting.

It's hard enough trying to find a winner in the first place - FFS.

The BHA made a rod for their own back. Some jockey may even get a lot of abuse at the track for not hitting a horse....

then there will only be the 50p Lucky15 daydreamers left betting.

I can understand where he is coming from which proves how stupid the rule is and it is difficult to blame the jockeys other than those who say this is a great idea. I presume he did not say feck the punters. However that is what the rule implies. If there are no punters there wont be much racing and of course there certainly wont be any sponsorship. It will be back to the equivalent of Lord Derby (apologies to him if such a person still exists) and his cronies having matches on Epsom Downs for half crown wagers. Who will pay the fat salaries in the BHA then. The new rules are equivalent to a cheaters charter and will make it impossible for most, if not nearly all, punters.

DOES THIS MEAN WHEN A HORSE IS HEAVILY PUNTED AND THE JOCKEY DOES HIS QUOTA AND MORE WILL THEY BE SUBJECTED TO A POLICE INVESTIGATION IN TO CORRUPTION?

Matt Chapman ATR tweeted


Very sad day for British racing when a jockey says he would rather finish 2nd than win (Buick). A slice of the sport I love has died today.

I am sure Denathorn the consequences have not been looked at at all. Considering that the jockey in the 3 mile race can only hit the horse once more than a jockey in a 5 furlong sprint tells you everything you need to know.

Chapman is spouting crap. He didn't say he would rather finish 2nd than win, he said he would rather finish 2nd than break the rules to win, there is a difference.

I like the new whip tho http://bit.ly/nRkWC4

Thats the point. Lets say Barney has a sting going on and his jockes do their brains in smacking the horses till they win, the payday being a 7 figure sum. Ok the jockey loses his fee's but will that be the end of it?

Even if the horse wins and is just moderately punted for a few grand, will that open the doors for a criminal investigation?

One thing you can guarantee a bookmaker will cite irregular betting patterns and stop payment.

Would these jockeys be so keen to adhere to the rules if riding in a big race , the derby for example ?

I doubt it somehow [smiley:crazy]

If jocks only have 6 smacks of the whip they really have to make them count, so make better make sure the horse really feels them

He just doesn't want bad rules - like bad law - what's wrong with that?

ad,i was just on matt chapman's twitter page and no tweet there that u have mentioned

Thats a good point..... it could be worse for the horse if the jockey smacks them with much fiercer force. "I only hi him 6 times" Yeah but look at the freaking welts on its arse.

It's there onthesnaff or he's deleted it but i've a lovely machine here that keeps deleted stuff i copy & Paste

If you want to call me a liar and or SUE me this is the tweet and what it said

MCYeeehaaaMatt Chapman ATR

Very sad day for British racing when a jockey says he would rather finish 2nd than win (Buick). A slice of the sport I love has died today.

im not questioning youre honesty ad,thought u might be following a fake account,hes just tweeted there about frankel

If in next years Derby,Buick is riding a horse inside the final furlong and needs a crack to win,but will take him over his quota,he will give it a crack,have no doubt

I agree with you TRD.Racing and thats why these new rules are plain wrong.

Onthesnaff i think he realized that he can't say he wants a clean sport then get annoyed because a jockey didn't break the rules and withdrew the twwet...I'll forgive him tho others mightn't

its not just the punters he's fecking here AD it the people that pay his wages...

Why wait for the Derby

Anaglogs Daughter     10 Oct 11 15:06

Nathnaiel a head down on Champions Day 50 yards to go Buick has used his quota.....For £30,000 wages does he hit the horse or not...."It's not worth getting done.You'd rather finish second"...We'll see

Almost every complaint put forward by the pro-whip mob on this thread could be satisfied by banning it altogether.

Anaglog, you are missing the point. If he finishes 2nd on nathaniel he gets his riding fee and percentage but if he wins by overwhipping he gets nothing

I have an old style riding crop that I use if I go hacking and believe me I wouldnt want to take one on the back with that.  However, I keep hearing the new whips are padded and dont hurt (as much).  Anyone willing to to volunteer for a channel 4 experiment to prove they don't hurt?

tomorrow     10 Oct 11 16:32 
Anaglog, you are missing the point. If he finishes 2nd on nathaniel he gets his riding fee and percentage but if he wins by overwhipping he gets nothing

I think the owner may reward the poor jockey behind closed doors

So if the jockey doesn't get the prize money.  Who does?

Never seen a thread, time and time again that divides so many punters. The new rules are imbecilic. That aside, how many on here have never had a large bet and screamed at the TV..." Hit the fvcker" ????


The geezer 'expert' on the morning line even said that the whip doesn't hurt the horse. Again, I wouldn't have been happy being Ballybriggs in this year's national being whipped by an (overrated jockey who got lucky with the stable he's with) when it had gave it's all.

My opinion is either use it or lose it. But if it is banned, there will be treble the amount of threads on here screaming abuse....

If he just exceeds his quota, but only finishes second, does he still lose his riding fee + percentage of the place prize money?

If so, then he may as well go the whole hog and lose his percentage of win money, becasue at least the owner (and punters) get paid. 

Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, as they say in our butchers.

tomorrow     10 Oct 11 16:32 
Anaglog, you are missing the point. If he finishes 2nd on nathaniel he gets his riding fee and percentage but if he wins by overwhipping he gets nothing

tomorrow it's not a selling handicap we're on about here, we are on about a race that will make the difference of millions to the owner as a stallion at stud.. It's a lot more then the percentage of 2nd place is worth to the jockey

I meant to say he'll get looked after. Which is another grey area i believe. The owners or trainers will be suspended if they pay the jockeys fine. But I'm sure giving a jockey a present for winning a Group One isn't paying a fine

what about the potential cost in stud fees lost by a horse that gets beat in a guineas/derby over it!!

Swaqrdean - Richard Hughes has already offered to proffer his bottom live on TV for a whipping with the cushioned whip and the BHA say they will police payments by owners to jockeys regarding lost prize money.

tomorrow it's not a selling handicap we're on about here



For some punters it is, and 99.999% are all about making a profit...

However they police it I have no idea - as Anaglogs said how can you distinguish between repayment of prize money and giving the jock a present for winning.

Hayley Turner
"The whip rule was changed for public perception, maybe it's the public perception that needs changing?"

Anaglogs Daughter, like I said before, this subject will always divide punters. I'm po-whip myself and the arguement that the best jockeys would still win without it is pure stupidity.


Take the whip away for 2 years and look who's champion jockey.

The whip has been here now for 300 years+ now.

Best get rid of the s c u m who call themselves royalty first. (IM0)

Swardean,why are you comparing a) old style whips with the new style cushion whips
                                b)yourself,weight? with at least 1/2  ton horse

  Imagine slapping a baby,that would really hurt them,then giving the same slap to a human,nowhere near as painful to them.Even greater gulf horse/human.

"I'd rather finish 2nd then break the rules"

Is William Buick stupid? Does he think you are meant to have a choice of whether to break the rules or not?

Just don't break the rules, you clown.

No really comparing unbiased, its just that I have an old style whip and it bl00dy hurts.  Never held or used the new cushioned ones and I am genuinely interested if anyone who has used one really thinks they can hurt a horse.

As bilbo as pointed out above if Richard Hughes is offering his behind he must be confident it does. but rather him than me

Pedro what if the law is an ass. There is a name for unenforceable laws that the majority of the population does not agree with.

If RH has offered it should be taken up. I would imagine there would be plenty of willing participants to administer the hits!

you could be right arkle, but think the jocks should give it a try and see how it goes.

They will have to change  their riding styles for sure, maybe their race tactics, but at least give it a chance.

Would rather than try this than see Spencer hit seven bells out of Cape Blanco again.

According to ATR -[n] "a lot of top jockeys are currently twittering some strong stuff."[/b]

I await your Cut & Pastes, Anaglogs.

on the case onlooker, i'll try and put them all together

I couldn't give a feck about the new whip rule,there will still be a winner of every race,whats the problem?

The difference is that we will all be watching virtual racing. The next demand from the Animal rights mob will be banning the whip altogether and then banning racing.

Do these new rules apply to the virtual stuff too?

Gonna steer clear of Joe Gribble, he can be brutal at times.

David Crosse 'The BHA makes the rules,, we get no say even dough this is going to ruin racing" ...Doughpee

Chris Bealby to David Crosse If all jockeys abide by the new rules then surely in the vast majority of races the best horse will still win ?

Aidan Coleman
Its a sad day when a professional sportsman doing one of the most dangerous job in the world gets banned for trying to hard

James Millman
Severe penalties, as a jockey you cant afford to be unpaid for 5days+ and risk missin ur best horse.

Also amazed at reaction to William Buicks comment, no jockey in their right mind r goin 2 even risk gettin a ban by winnin an ordinary race with such

Gerard Tumelty

Richard Hughes a role model 2 racing & always leaves his whip till the last resort but is the 1st professional jockey 2 get done by The new whip rule only because he was correcting his horse what is happening 2 the sport !!


Terry Norman

It's not right that Fox suffers but not the owner and trainer, who gained through rule-breaking If the jockey loses the % so should connections.

Brendan Powell to Terry Norman Does that mean jockeys agents wont get paid either Terry. Poor you!!!!

Michael Owen

As it happens, it all looked normal today and I've no strong opinion on the new rules. It's the politics of the decision that concerns me.


Chris Cook
Frankie Dettori on new whip rules: "I also found it very hard to distinguish if I was inside or outside the furlong marker"

Sam Turner

Think it is wrong, after just one afternoon, to condemn or praise the new whip rules. Some of the stuff said today on tv was excruciating

Charlie Longsdon

Good luck to jump boys tomorrow trying not to break new whip rules...will be easier said than done - especially Andrew Tinkler on 1 of mine!

Luke Morris

Nicked a winner an survived a whip ban !!

Derek Thompsonn Don't Forget to phone the hotline for a 1/3 shot* running saturday that doesn't need the whip..*Message will be giving after a 5 minute weather report

Just stick to the rules boys and everything will be fine,it's not a sad day when you get banned for trying to hard,i dont want to see a horse getting leathered,comprende.

Graham Cunningham to Eddie The Shoe ..Eddie The Shoe and Lydia are seasoned observers yet it seemed to me that you were only alerted to Fox offence by a nudge from the gallery? [:x]