Eph Smith

I remember at the time it was reported that he had drowned but dont know the circumstances.

Same as me. I remember reading the original account but not the inquest.

Sad to say, I'm fairly  sure it was reported as a suicide.

There was another Smith jockey at the time - Stan Smith.

Many thought he was a brother, too - but I think he was a cousin.

I thought he died when a horse called Priddy  Fair reared up and crushed him

No  - That was Manny Mercer.

Manny Mercer died on 26 September 1959 when a filly named Priddy Fair threw him before the start of the Red Deer Stakes at Ascot Racecourse. Mercer was fatally kicked in the head as he fell to the ground. Reporting on his death.

I am fairly sure that he died by his own hand.......it was reported that a shotgun was found near the body.

Mr. Memory Eph Smith died by drowning.   I would hate to be wrong but

I seem to recall an investigation into his affairs was or was about

to take place.

Eph was short for Ephraim I think.

You've probably already seen this @ http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,359670.0.html


There is an obituary in "The Times" 14 Aug 1972 - to summarise:

Eric Eph SMITH - his father was a point to point rider who farmed at Shottesbrooke near Maidenhead (Berkshire).  Eric had two brothers, Charles & Douglas who were all born there

Maybe possible for you to view historical obituaries on-line?

Thanks everybody. Bears out what I suspected but just couldn`t find. Rather ruined a question for a quiz I am preparing which may see the light of day in the next week or so.
Stan certainly wasn`t a brother. I thought he was unrelated but could be wrong.

salmon, a final word I think that the guy called Stan was actually a journeyman jockey

whose christian name was Septimus.

I remember him being retained by Lord Roseberry when he ( Smith ) was about 50. But I think you are probably right that he was never a star name.
It`s amazing how little info there is about jockeys on the web. As far as Britain is concerned there`s more chance of finding stuff about famous horses. Eph has no wiki entry despite being very near the top of his trade for 30 years. He gets a mention on Doug`s entry which is itself a stub.

wikipedia not invented when Eph Smith was riding imo

That must be it blackpood.

Eph was found in a brook or a stream I recall. I think it was regarded as suicide. His last years were pretty dreadful. His more famous brother had sad times towards the end too. So tragically did Grev who hardly ever left his home. Like boxers ,many jockeys die skint. They shouldn't but sadly the booze and or the gambling does for them.

Eph Smith did not commit suicide,he was out walking fell and drowned in a small puddle.He was also deaf but as typical of those times just accepted it.

Jockeys trainers deaths always brings back that trainer oh christ father something freg sake massive gamble on it was it a northern trainer think he shot himself

was it father hayes

ooh my minds gone dont think it was father hayes

Cricketers are more notorious for committing suicide. There is a famous book about it. Apart from Fred Archer,who was probably a special case because of the huge quantities of diuretics he was taking,I can`t find anything on the net about suicides amongst British/Irish jockeys. Most of us who are old enough seem to agree that Eph did but I can`t find any others ( there`s one or two Americans ).

Ah. While I was typing the above we have a dissident. I certainly don`t remember it being established as suicide,but I know I jumped to that conclusion when I read between the lines of the article describing his body being found. The deaf bit rings a bell though.

Salmon Spray what about Tony Murray and an Irish jump jockey and Irish Grand National winner Cathal Finnegan?

Not mentioned in various lists I have found.  but there are a number of jockeys I KNOW were killed on the racecourse who aren`t in similar lists.

Taken me 20 mins but Murray died of a drugs overdose at the age of 41. However an open verdict was returned.

If I remember correctly Tony Murray was himself lucky not to be a course fatality.
Did he crash into a concrete post?

Not sure dunlaying.
A Cathal Finnegan was still alive in Aug of this year when he took part in a jog for jockeys at Downpatrick. There was another one who rode Glencaraig lady but I can`t find anything about his death.

No = Didn't Tony he suffer serious facial injuries, after nearly getting decapitated by an old type Starting Tape?

Thank you Onlooker,that is what happened is it.

Pretty sure, dunlaying - the facial injuries part definitely did.

Joe Blanks sadly lost his life, due to a concrete post, at Brighton.

Salmon I read between the lines also on Eph Smiths newspaper report. Pretty certain that Cathal Finnegan is dead as said.

Dunlaying is right about Tony Murray,had his jaw broken in smittereens off a concrete post at Windsor i think.
He was a truly great jockey who had his heart broken by a lady jockey with Grundy connections,rumoured that Greville Starkey was partially responsible.

Her's a rare old clip...

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=39828

Johnny Lehane was a jump jockey who drunk paraquat in his hotel room in 1969. Only 35. Rode a couple of Cheltenham festival winners, and rode Mr What to be placed in the Grand National. He was known as 'Tumper', I remember reading.

Eph Smith was the elder brother of Doug Smith he died in 1972 and the inquest verdict was misadventure.The best horse he rode was Blue Peter who in 1939 won the 2000 Guineas,the Derby and the Eclipse stakes,he also rode the controversial Premonition to win the St Leger.
Cathal Finnegan was apprenticed to Vincent O`Brien until 1953 he then became a jump jockey winning the Irish Grand National in 1970 on Garoupe,he sadly drowned in the river Boyne in 1978.

I think it was Doug Smith who drowned - found in his swimming pool.

ged, You may well be right, shortly before his death it was alleged that a load of readies he had stashed

had been hoisted.

Doug it was who drowned in his own pool...here is a link to his wife's funeral notice.....check out the names in the Mourners list.

http://www.newmarketjournal.co.uk/community/community-news/patricia_smith_1_548025

Eph Smith won the British Flat apprentice championship 3 years in a row. The only man to do that. Only one other jockey has won it 3 times - and I've never heard of him - his winning totals are small - it was during WW2. Eph's totals were decent.

Eph Smith wrote an autobiography called Riding To Win.
Doug Smith wrote an autobiography called Five Times Champion.
I am sure they could be found in the many great libraries around Newmarket.

ged - Eph Smith Champion Apprentice in ...

1933 - 52 winners
1934 - 36
1935 - 76

The 'Three times during the war' was - Joe Sime

1943 - 5 winners
1944 - 9

1945 - Frankie Durr and Tommy Gosling  - 10 winners each

1946 - (after the War) - Joe Sime - 46 winners.
-------------------------------------

was that the same Joe Sime "handicap specialist" who rode in the 60's and early 70's?

oops yes - missed Joe Sime. It was K Mullins that I hadn't heard of - won it in '39, '41 and '42.

of course - Those big Handicap wins for the likes of Sam Hall.

didn't doug smith become racing manager for r bott (wigmore street) who also committed suicide? the plot thickens.

Agreed, ged - presumably K Mullins may well have ben related to the present mob of Mullins.

Ah, Joe Sime, Ron Mason, Monawin, 1963 Lincoln. My first ever bet. Thought the game was easy.

Ribero1 neither of them committed suicide both verdicts misadventure.

wildman, I can assure you that one of them had a load of readies hoisted shortly

before they done it, could not swear to which one though.

There's a report in the Catholic Herald archive of the 1939 Pinner Donkey Derby. It was a Smith 1-2, with Gordon Richards 3rd. K Mullins was in it too. he won the apprentice race later on the 'card' :-


"The 13th annual Pinner Donkey Derby — the straightest race run on a crooked course — was won on Saturday by Douglas Smith, on Erinox, with Eph Smith, who won the "other Derby" on Blue Peter, second (a length behind) and Gordon Richards third.

Eleven " mokes " from the sands of Southend and Brighton competed.

The Derby is the highlight of the popular Pinner Derby and Fête organised each year in aid of his church and school funds by the Waterford-born parish priest of the Middlesex parish, Fr. John Caulfield, "padre to the turf and stage." Among the jockeys who drove over from Alexandra Park were Gordon Richards, Michael Beery, Eph Smith, Bert Lynch, T. Burns, J. Morgan, K.Gethin, K. Mullins, E. Dick and J.Wetherell."

Blimey, ged ..... and we think Laytown is a joke.

ok wildman,should have said mysteriously,btw wasn't suggesting anything dodgy just the coincidence.

ribero, have you an inkling as to who copped for the readies?

Don`t doubt you for one minute Wee Eck but i am now associating the disappearance of this cash and your arrival in Tipperary town with the stuff bulging out of your pockets.The damage you did that time is still reverberating round the town.

[;)][;)]

hi wee eck,tbh i didn't remember that,i remember doug smith as a jockey being runner up to lester a couple of times in the 60s(didn't he ride for g brooke amonst others?) then as a trainer and finally as manager for the botts,he obviously liked a drink and presumably that contributed to his death?although he must have had a fair innings,so i know nothing about the readies unlike presumably yourself?

wasting ure time trying to educate wildmug wee eck hes a spaceman gets collected in a white van 4 times a week for day trips unfortunately its not mondays this is when his mother loans him her laptop to occupy his simple mind

Dave wildman in my book is a nice lad.[;)]

just a pity about his brain injury eck

[;)][;)]

Wee Eck pretending you were on the Jarrow march to impressionable young ladies wasn`t very gallant of you but i suppose all is fair in love and war.

WILDMAN I was not actually marching more like being pushed in my pushchair

being fed Farley Rusks by a sympathetic gathering who were lining the route.
 
The rusks were a novelty to me as normally I was fed stale crusts soaked in

warm water.

Thats not the point,you lied to the young ladies and some are still trying to track you down.
Next time you are in Ireland dont go to these racecourses Clonmel,Thurles and Tipperary you should be safe at any of the others.

Doug Smith was champion 5 times.
Didn`t he train for a bit afterwards ?
The later years of both Smiths sound interesting. Won`t be covered in theie " autobiographies " though. Eph`s was written by Peter Willets

Doug trained Sleeping Partner to win the Oaks on June 7th 1969 ridden by John Gorton @25/1.
I have to remember as it was my Wedding Day....had a fiver on the it as befitting the occasion.

I think Doug Smith trained Raffingora as a 2/3yo before Bill Marshall got hold of him. He certainly trained a couple of 2yo's called Fish and Chips, and The Bee. They both won at Kempton's Easter meeting (first race on the card on Sat/Mon in each case) - John Gorton rode both, I think -  might even have been Doug's first season as trainer. At least one was in Lord Roseberry's colours - perhaps both. I think he took over from Jack Jarvis as Roseberry's trainer.

thought Bruce Hobbs trained Sleeping Partner.

Doug Smith trained Sleeping Partner to win the Oaks.

Doug Smith retired from riding around the same time as Geoffrey Brooke retired from training - for whom he used to be retained jockey.

Doug did not train for too many years - He trained the likes of ...

Owen Anthony, Crooner, Whistling Fool, Happy Victorious, Secret Ray, Swinging Junior -  and Virginia Boy and Whistling Fool - who won successive Wokingham Handicaps at Royal Ascot in 1970 and 1971

He also trained Raffingora as a 3-yr-old - before the horse moved on to Bill Marshall, and attained  many great successes.

Apologies for my incorrect post@ 02 .02.Confusion in the brain  I guess

during the war......

Dodge did i tell you about the time i was in the Atlantic convoys.

Serious threads always attract at least two cretins in my experience.

and that is why I NEVER post on them....

Father Hayes was the horse who landed that massive gamble when winning at Sandown in 1992.Was owned by Middleham trainer RJ Pearce who within the next couple of year( maybe 1994 ?? - cannot find anything at all about the incident on the web) drove to the end of his Middleham gallops one morning and shot himself.Seem to remember suggestions that he owned the wrong sort of people money though don't think this was ever substantiated.

Father Hayes was the horse who landed that massive gamble when winning at Sandown in 1992.Was owned by Middleham trainer RJ Pearce who within the next couple of year( maybe 1994 ?? - cannot find anything at all about the incident on the web) drove to the end of his Middleham gallops one morning and shot himself.Seem to remember suggestions that he owned the wrong sort of people money though don't think this was ever substantiated.

Death by misadventure is the term commonly used in inquests when they believe the real cause is suicide.Suicide used to have and possibly still does have a certain stigma attached to it,so the coroner will often use the death by misadventure term in a bid to ease the pain for the relatives and friends involved.You can be absolutely certain Eph Smith committed suicide,and not drowned in a pool of pisss as that bullshiiter wildmanfromborneo is letting people believe.If it had been an accident,he would be saying it was suicide,he's really only on here for an argument.

This is a link to Eph's bio if anybody is interested.

http://www.browzers.co.uk/item10861.htm

I thought Bill Pearce's death was only a few days after the Sandown gamble - and not, "a couple of years."

I remember at the time thinking - and I am sure many others thought likewise -

Why would he do that, over money troubles - when they had just landed one of the gambles of all time?

When this has been aired before - I have read 'a suggestion' that he did not receive as much as he expected from the gamble.... or, perhaps, NEEDED.

a grisly thread. I'm 64 so remember Doug Smith very well. He was the equivalent of Fallon or similar of his day.He was permanently top 3. He rode for Brooke and the wonderful Jack Watts.

a grisly thread. I'm 64 so remember Doug Smith very well. He was the equivalent of Fallon or similar of his day.He was permanently top 3. He rode for Brooke and the wonderful Jack Watts.

Memory is waning so I stand corrected. Think it happened on a Monday morning ( or the day before and I read about it in the RP on the Monday). There were no Forums in existence then so I must definitely have read in the printed media that he was rumoured to have involved himself with some baddies.

I remember the Daily Mail 'Roll-Up' bet.

The idea was to back 20 consecutive (forecast) Even-Money chances -

- and Roll-Up the Winnings, and Stake,  from one onto the next horse - and so on... Thus winning a theoretically potential £1 million - I think.

There was NOT a Bet every day, of course - and in one sequence they had got up to 17 consecutive winners.

I was in a Betting Shop, and one punter said - "I see Roll-Up's going again, today - do you think they will get to the 20?"

The other punter replied ...... "He hasn't picked one of Doug Smith's yet."

The selection that day was one of Smith's ...

It LOST.