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09 Oct 11
18:46
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Date Joined:
05 Oct 11
Another twenty minutes scaremongering and suggesting that jockeys might consider striking because they can only hit an animal eight times. And if they did what kind of perception would that give out?
I used to like Chapman's presentation but he seems to have completely 'lost it' over this issue. He has just followed Boyce over the cliff.
The World is not going to end tomorrow.
I used to like Chapman's presentation but he seems to have completely 'lost it' over this issue. He has just followed Boyce over the cliff.
The World is not going to end tomorrow.
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Replies: 41
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There will be plenty of jocks banned......because most of them can only count to four.
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He is quite right different drum - whose perception do you know that has been clouded by the issue of the whip? I know absolutely nobody and this is after prompting them to discuss it as well. The public perception argument is just a fantasy dreamed up because a few z-list celebrities got upset after the Grand National. Don't you fall for that tripe as well.
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The public perception arguement is a complete joke and makes me sick. it's do-gooders inferfering with a sport they know fk all about saying 'ohh poor horse got whipped'
How many years have horses been whipped for in this sport? They are huge, muscular beasts. Fk off nosey cnts. |
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Red Hiney - it does nobody any good to use that sort of language and diminishes your argument that you do so.
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differentdrum is right imo
Chapman seems to bend his argument into scenarios that only exist in his imagination, so what if jockeys have to push and shove out in the country instead of whipping them to get them onto the bridle. Its the same for all of them and if they're able to save their whipping quota until close home then they deserve to win the race if it's close. Jockeyship can only win with the new rules in my opinion. |
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he has gone a bit crazy over the new whip rules, calm down !
lets just see how it goes this week and especially at Ascot on Saturday. |
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Bilbo - u r prime example of Nosey do gooder
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I support your argument Red Hiney but you're obviously too moronic to understand that.
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You're an idiot, bilbobaggins. There is no reason in the entire world that justifies your ongoing and exceptionally tiresome bleatings about the new whip restrictions (not a "whip ban"). Most people with an ounce of sense recognise that the new regs make perfect sense. Just because you may be one of those idiots that insist that whatever they back is given a good thrashing for the sake of your bet does not make the regs wrong.
What doesn't make sense, and what the riders are justifiable concerned about, are the penalties for contraventions of the new regs. They appear harsh, but maybe that is what is needed to make sure the regs are adhered. Either way, the OP is 100% correct - the very fact that The Orange FatFace is against them is against them is another good reason to support them. |
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Let's say it's a big race at Royal Ascot
The favourite is a top class Champion horse who should win, but you're prepared to whip your horse 24 times in the final 2 furlongs to get that all important Group win You get up by a neck. What's cheating matter, when you get glory, black type and a lot of money? |
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Why do people on this forum have to name call. the whip restriction is a complete joke. maybe on the flat its not going to be a problem but over the jumps it will be. lets hear your opinion tolstoy when one of you have backed jumps the last then gets beet on the run in because he cant use his whip. you will soon change your mind then.
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That will probably be an extremely rare scenario robinlace1 if the jockey had any sense and saved up all his whipping quota the same as the opponent .... or a jockey did it on purpose to prove a non existant point.
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we will see. but all those that agree with the whip change will soon change their opinion when it hits their pockets.
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if it turns out true what you're surmising then there will of course be times when you'll be on the fortunate winner so it will even out ... or just back the travellers that don't need urging along.
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What about the none triers grendel. you have a trainer/owner that wants to pull a horse. all you do now is whip it in the first part of race then you have perfect excuse for it getting beet later on.
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...as oppose to the multitude of less obvious tactics they currently use
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The main problem I have is that who thought it was a good idea that its ok to hit horse 7 or 8 times but not 10. surely if they have an issue with a horse been hit then it should be a total ban.
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Let's say it's a big race at Aintree (The biggest even)
You've just jumped the last in front, after over 4 miles of gruelling battle. There are 4 decent horses just behind you, including a previous winner But you're prepared to whip your horse 18 times in the final 3 furlongs, to get that all important historical win You hang on by a couple of lengths. The jockey behind you sticks to the rules...more fool him Your horse is semi-conscious and needs oxygen. It's touch and go for a while. What's cheating matter, when you get glory, a place in history and a lot of money? |
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I have no problem with the quota, I actually think it will make racing more interesting and improve jockeyship. I wouldn't necessarily welcome a total ban though.
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It will be interesting to see people opinions once its up and running tho.
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In that, "big race at Aintree (The biggest even)" - poppydog ...
It's 'a million' that the jockeys on the, "4 decent horses behind, " will ALL, "stick to the rules," too. |
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Don't forget that this rule was probably brought in because of the Grand National,which the general public and once a year punters watch.They have no idea,and why should they,that accidents happen to horses in other races too,including the flat.They have no "perception " as to how racehorses are cosseted,never without water,except when travelling,fed regularly with the correct diet,groomed twice a day,box cleaned twice a day etc.
Fences are now,in the main,"softer" than in days gone by,so that horses can brush through the top ,in many cases,without any ill effect. So how comes for many years there wasn't a problem?Answer=television giving the ill-informed incorrect views on what racing is all about. |
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breaking whip regs earns a ban and loss of fees,why stop there? If the BHA are serious about stopping whip abuse then any jockey striking one hit too many incurs automatic disqualification for the horse.That way all connections can sing from the same song sheet.If a horse wins a G1 because his jockey goes whip happy then the owner will readily pay any jockey fine and loss of earnings.Stallion rights and fees are year on year and a nominal fine is an irrelevance. Lower class horses can be 'encouraged' home to land a substantial touch and again jockey fines are meagre if a big touch is landed.
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The new rules are pathetic and i am sure we will see this when bans mount up. If all the Jockeys ignore them - which i think they should there will be so many bans that there will be nobody to ride them... Perhaps the BHA could train some monkeys to ride horses instead of jockeys.
The Whips are light and actually cause minimal harm to a horse. If you compare this to what will happen now. Once a jockey has used up all of his whips he will just jab the horse in ribs to get it to go quicker... This will cause much more damage to the horse in the long run. As usual the Minority (of ignorant) are ruining the sport for the majority. Lets hope the light is seen and we go back to common sense |
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A few points here.
This years National, if this is the reason that the whip ban is in then it is totally wrong. The problem was the weather, 2 dead horses 1 covered by taupalin. Ballobriggs needed oxygen not because he had a few smacks of the whip. I put most of the blame on the BBC and the media following the race. There should have been no change to the whip and to make the race safer then have less runners and run it at 6pm. The rules are in though and it will not mean the end of racing, the jockeys will have to adapt to fit in. I cannot think of 1 good thing to come out from anyone in a high position at RFC, BHA or Jockey Club and it seems owners of lesser type animals and regular punters are shafted on a daily basis. |
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Not just about the general public....i've watched racing for 30 yrs and been employed within racing much of my working life...if asked, i'd have said i would like to see a tightening of the rules in jump racing at least...hate seeing old chasers whipped for 3m in the mud
....dont think it will make much difference in Flat races, 5 slaps in final furlong is a slap every 6 strides...that should be about the maximum anyway under old rules if horse was supposed to be given time to respond between hits. |
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they are worried about getting banned , causing them to miss races.....so they strike which will cause them to ...well, miss races.
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Tolstoy - thanks for that - didn't realise I was having such an effect on you. Just for a sense of balance the feeling is mutual but I don't know why I deserved to be insulted for stating my opinion.
Both duncan idaho and Steamship made very good points regarding the whip - certainly on the flat I think 5 is enough in the final furlong so the horse has time to respond (to get more in would be overdoing it) but the change that needs to be made is if you're on a lazy horse which needed help out in the country . 5 in the final furlong should still be the rule even if you have had to cajole the horse early in the race and you've lost most of your allowance. Over jumps they need to be far more lenient a)because the race is far longer and b)the final furlong tends to last a lot longer because they are going much slower. |
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Has Tolsnot ever posted without trying to insult anyone?
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But Bilbo you're only half agreeing with duncan, I like Duncan hate to see slow chasers been flogged to an inch of their lives over extreme distances on extreme ground it can be a really ugly sight.
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silvergreaser - totally agree but I have hardly ever seen that happen - jockeys love horses too and don't want to flog them. I do think that sort of inflammatory language is unnecessary - 'flogged' and 'within an inch of their lives'. Can you give me an instance other than Ballabrigs (which did win) ?
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Pathetic new rules.
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its either whip or no whip
middle ground is impossible |
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it was middle ground before, just diff middle ground now!
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if a jockey has to count as hes thinking about winning 1/2 a furlong out--theres somethink wrong with the rule
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maybe a slight exaggeration bilbo but this years Eider chase was a really ugly sight, granted the jockeys weren't over abusive with their whips but running over 4 miles on bog like ground is almost cruel, only two of the 12 starters finished, in truth we nearly had no finishers at all Campanero the winner scrambled over the last two fences, how the runner up Giles Cross got over the last only he knows so exhausted was he.
Wouldn't you think 8 cracks of the whip is more than enough for these exhausted horses?. |
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the racing conditions are arguably far more brutal and inhumane than being beaten by a cushioned whip,scratch that there is no argument. To appease the PC brigade and Liberals it would make far more sense to abandon all races over 2 miles 4fur plus on heavy and bottomless ground at Towcester,Carlisle and Hexham ( and possibly Newcastle and Chepstow ).Often they come home at staggered intervals and practically walk or as was mentioned stagger home. I suspect this plan is already beyond germination at the BHA.
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not sure you should knock the do gooders too much,dont think the capitalist model doing very well right now.
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as expected,when the dough was down a jockey (Carson) got the job done with disregard for the rules.He will be rewarded financially and conveniently gets to to book 2 weeks somewhere hot for a vacation at the seasons end.
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