Tax rules on gambling winnings

Also Is it fair that gambling winning is tax exempt?

the tips you've been giving on here lately he would come with a big fat check and an army of mechanics to**your old beaten up helicopter didds.

I don't have a helicopter - I hate flying - your answer just about sums you up

tammygirl say something interesting 4 once- stop **ing and scratching eyes out

too busy looking at form.i cant pick bumper losers out of the air like some i could mention.

I'm not a pro gambler.
A pro gambler contributes nothing to the game that he makes money out of.
He is not obligated to pay any tax which he obviously, as time passes,
should do as he'll visit hospitals, and send his kids to school etc.
Often makes me laugh on here when parasitic pros have a go at low income earners when they are miles worse. Contribute NOTHING when their income hints that that they could.
C***ts.

tammygirl don't get **y

brodie thats not true- gamblers pro or otherwise support racing big style- without the gambler - there would be no racing- Tax is payable on most items bought and sold- he does pay some heavy tax on his- cigars and vodka- Just to let you know - most wealthy people gamblers or not educate their children privately and also pay huge sums for private heath care- supporting state run institutions

Current regulations allow for gambling profits to be taxed. The Revenue have chosen not to pursue people who make long term regular profits from gambling because of the practical difficulties involved.

That policy is not set in stone.

The question was about explaining gaambling winnings to the tax man. can't anyone read?

swift thankyou- are you a tax consultant?

No but I have discussed this subject extensively with a barrister friend of mine.

My point is valid. Gamblers who win, don't pay tax but use the facillities paid for by people who work. IE they sponge. ITS THAT SIMPLE and if i see a 'pro' who gloats i let em know.
Thats the best I can do..

I gotta hit the hay ,but will return to this thread later. See if I'm wrong
Night

Ok well i was chatting to a guy in Barclays the other day - and he wanted an explaination for cash sums- (he said he had to ask if the amount was above 10K) dure to laundering.
My explaination was look @ my acc u will see where it comes from- he said oh yes it seems Ladbrokes have a better interest rate than barclays. then he asked about tax?

Tell him the truth, you are not required to make a tax return. If you did, the Revemue would not tax your gambling winnings (well, they might not).

Get back in the ring, Tambhoy.
This was initially very amusing, but has become too factual now.
Tell us more about the bumper flops,
we need to know. :)

tilted don't always take what you read or see on here as gospel.
it's bit like the naive ones who thing Higgins is a saint- Things sometimes are not as they appear on the surface

tilted tammygirl could not fight my granny- he/shes more a pink belt

if they start to tax people on their gambling profits, it will open a massive can of worms regarding claiming tax back on their losses. :)

Got the email mate will be in touch soon .

good lad scoop tap tap

Morning campers.

scoop - the tax man has become a right pain- cos he's got his pc innit.
Yes scoop point taken - but the taxman - is a nasty fella at times- and hs special powers. He haas asked me to fill the tax form in - i refused saying i have nothing to declare. So then he wants to know how i pay for my horses- Then asked why I claim VAT back on the horses nd don't pay any tax innit

Morning Mike - up late ? did you mark the bottle before and after - thats what i do

mike im taking laddo up to Cambridge tonigt after the last - then collecting him one evening next week. little **e keeps changing his mind

Been up hours, been playing card derby game its great . . . !!

Best i get on is there any filth?

I Understand he is a pain regarding gambling winnings, i have often wonderd what i will do when he asks me the same question. do you have any other income outside gambling? :)

i know we are in trouble mike when you are asking that question. :0

I know that giant rat came 2nd last night, did it run well spirito ? is it worth another nibble next time? :)

I know nowt about dogs kid but my man was right it got caught on the line a nats and was backed from 4-1 - 7-4 innit

Scoop the only thing it nibbled at is my wheelbarrow - i had 3 1/2 monkeys on it-- but MY MAN WAS RIGHT except it got caught right on the line

scoop it was a blck day yesterday for me- First a letter from my pal at the tax orrifice then i back 5 2nds and a have an eway punt - only to find the horse comes 4th after having a tour all over north uttoxeter on the way - then the commentator says wow what a race THE GRIFTER has run to get 4th should have called it the The DRIFTER.

Mr 365 was kind enough to let me have 800 to 200 . i was quite surprised. i think i will stick to the horses from now on, that crash bang wallop scenario at the first bend as always put me off... :)

do betfair have a "helicoptors for sale" site ?

Only had one bet EW on viva vettori at 25/1... place will do nicely... :)

Then my dog man says have the full monty on romeo reason @ wimbledon - has me monkey on @ 7-2 - the dogs flys out like a cat - with 5 alsations snapping at his arse - goes 5 clear - then waits for the 6 dog to have a kiss on the line -
But hey ho its only lent - i'll get it back today

scoop if he come back on next week - ill be on - because hes very very good - but sorry i tipped you up a 2nd

Aint looked yet scoopy, had a date with some vodka last night, am now going to have peek, didds you have mail, good call with dog mate, if we are on at 4s and they start 7/4 your doing something right.

No worries spirito all is fair in love and gambling... ;)

scoop i wish 365 were as nice to me - could you ask them why they only wanted to lay me an easter egg to a half eaten chocolate button ?

yes now some advice Mike as you know i'm more experienced with the vodka old son -- when its 1/2 full top it up with water- just in case the misses has a drop after you go to sleep

Did they not even let you speak to a TRADER, the worlds going mad .

scoop i have about 80 open accounts with 365 - they are all on lay the bugger pennys mode - thats what they do when you smash there conkers

scoop ill tell u a few today ok - for bet 365 a nice como bet for u keep looking ' your email my son

if they taxed profits on gambling they would have to make losses tax deductable so most of us on here would get a humungous tax rebate every year..

Also Is it fair that gambling winning is tax exempt?

If it was taxed that would mean losses were tax deductable.

On the basis there are more losers than winners this would probably bankrupt the exchequer :)

sorry didn't see that post

The law is peculiar when it comes to tax - But my best option is do what ive always done - dont fill the tax return in and let them make the running- i'll sit behind with a double pocket full

But Barclays have an interesting view - when i asked them what my loan status would be regarding a mortgage loan (if required) - they told me i was a top 5% customer with an un- certificated 1/2 million availability. But that could change if funds deposited in to my current acc on any month of the year dropped to less than £5k regardless of what was withdrawn.
It's interesting to see how the financial world looks at things

didds, when I sought advice about a motrgage, was topl i could have up to half/million,
Doesnt mean I could afford that though lol maybe if I didnt eat, pay bills etc, mid you that was 4 yrs ago

Whats to stop you recycling your funds to keep the status quo, sounds strange to me... but thats bankers for you... :) mail ready to recieve...

i have not got a helicopter, but i have got a corby train! :-)

Didds

If you claim back VAT on racehorse purchase/ expenditure than you must have a sponsorship agreement with a third party which must be income producing for the BHB VAT reclamation scheme to work. If you say to the taxman that you have no income you could lose your entitlement to reclaim VAT on your horses.

If the horse is registered through a business rather than individually then you will have to complete tax returns for this in any case.

HM Revenue v Alec Bird (pro gambler) taxman wanted cut of Birds winnings , Bird said OK , but I want tax relief on my losses , case dismissed , EoS.

Nice 1 Matt

Nice one matt

Not this old chestnut again - once and for all ....

ALL winnings (ie.horse racing bets:lottery:football pools etc. are TAX FREE. It matters not a jot if you are able to make a living out of it or not. All winnings are not taxable - PERIOD!

Let's look at a theoretical example - say you win consistently on the lottery week after week, then even if you're a millionaire after a few weeks, then the winnings are still totally tax free.

I've spoken about this to my accountant on many occasions and he confirms this as well.

You may need proof of where you got all the money from, but your bank statement will confirm the whereabouts of large credits. You may have difficulty proving anything if it's all 'cash in hand', but horse race winnings these days can usually be proofed as most punters have bank accounts or bookmakers deposit accounts with printable statements for records.

Hope this clears it up.

the way i understand it - is ,if you have no other form of income and dont claim benefits,but win enough to live of winnings,then your gambling becomes an income - which it is ,yes you can deduct looses from previous year if lost,you can also deduct any costs- i.e going to track,computer etc etc.if you have an income - then its tax free as the main part of your week is taken up in doing this - but if you do nothing but gamble then its taxable - its tax free when you win it ,so you can deduct costs but pay tax on rest.

its not about money ,but about what you do with your time,which determines wether you have to pay tax - otherwise bookies would not have to pay tax,as they win from gambling.

what a thoroughly hilarious thread. Cheered me up no end, thanks Diddles.

comingupthehill - I'm certain that none of what you say is true!

It's totally irrelevant if you have a full time job or not. If you're unemployed and you make a living from horse race winnings, then the tax man is still not interested in what you earn. As long as you have proof of where the money came from, you wont pay tax on it.

The reason why bookmakers have to pay tax is because they are a REGISTERED business, and as a registered business, business tax laws apply to them. ie. corporation tax and all the other overheads that come with any other type of business.

moke give up........they probably bet on virtual racing as well.

if you are unemployed then your winnings are tax free - but if you gamble only and have no other income and win enough to live or more than tax code - then you gambling becomes your job ,solution is to get a part time job ,even 8 hrs a week - then your winnings are tax free,you have to say what you do all week and if all you do is gamble and win then the tax man counts this as income ,which you can then deduct looses and exspenes.

lol

Seriously any big gamblers worried about losing assets under the Criminality/money laundering rules should get a qualified accountant to draw up a set of accounts every year from their Betfair statements etc. Probably cost about a grand but it would be some kind of piece of mind.

Moke it would have to be tested in court

The only reason what you say is true us because the Revenue CHOOSE NOT to pursue tax from people whose sole income is from gambling. Current tax regulations would allow it if they chose to pursue tax from these individuals. But it would need testing in court.

money made from gambling is not taxable - end of thread

and yet properly licenced bookmakers have to pay tax

supposing all you did was gamble by laying - arent you then a bookie,why do bookies register - they may aswell just say they re gamblers and pay no tax

the law is - what a reasonable person would deem your full time occupation/source of income is,if you bet all day and reguarly win then it becomes income.

True bookies don't gamble though if they make a proper overround book?

only 2 % win ,of those 2% - 90% will have another source of income ,may own houses ,so they are landlords,may work within racing in some capacity,or have a pension,or on the sick ,or own a business,before betfair you could only win of bookies and they would close your account if won reguarly,hence why never tested as no one actually just bets /backs and wins and dont have any other source of income no matter how small that income is.

Sorry comeingupthehill, but what you are saying just isn't true. Just put what you are saying to any accountant worth his salt and he'll confirm what I'm saying.

If you earn a living from backing horses, then that income is not taxable WHATEVER your circumstances are. If you've been told otherwise, then I'm afraid you've been seriously misinformed!

comingupthehill

:^0

Oh dear

Oh dear indeed!!

i had a tax inspection 2 yrs ago - but i had another source of income - they had all my bets and racing accounts,but as you say couldnt touch me as legally it wasnt my main source of income.he actually asked me for a tip pmsl,give him one and it won - my investigation was rapidly complete and no outstanding tax was owed.

moke, flyingbolt et al

you don't win the argument by banding together and trying to ridicule the dissenters

fwiw, coming upthehill is correct

Well what's your point at 13:42 all about then - contradicting yourself surely?

someone said its tax free - it isnt if you win over the year and have no other source of income and spend the bulk of your week doing this.

swift tuttle.

Absolute nonsense

If I have to spell it out..............The money the IR would take from the small percentage who make it pay would be vastly overshadowed by the fortunes they would have to give back to those who lose who if gambling was a taxable income would be perfectly entitled to offset their losses against any income earned.

End of thread ?

As far as I can tell that's just not true - professional gamblers in the UK pay no tax. If they did, then they'd be able to claim tax relief on losses (someone said this earlier in this thread) and HMRC wouldn't want to open that can of worms. Furthermore, there are not enough successful pro gamblers to make it worth considering.

As I've mentioned before, I've had long conversations with my accountant regarding this. He's a VERY experienced accountant - past retirement age, but still likes to work to keep his mind occupied. I've even known him to correct inexperienced tax officials when they've made an allowance mistake on my tax return and he's put them right on it on more than one occasion.

So he knows what he's talking about, especially as his main interest in life (apart from his accountancy work) is backing horses to win. He's actually better than me at that actually - experience I suppose. But he certainly knows the tax laws inside out. I think he's 76 years old now, but still as bright as a button!

swift-tuttle --- not ridiculing anyone here - certainly wasn't my intention anyway, but for the record, comeingupthehill is NOT correct, sorry.

to repeat myself:

The only reason what you say is true us because the Revenue CHOOSE NOT to pursue tax from people whose sole income is from gambling. Current tax regulations would allow it if they chose to pursue tax from these individuals. But it would need testing in court.


I'm not talking about hearsay. I'm talking about what the Revenue could do under current regulations if they wanted to.

Well of course, the IR tend to be a law amongst themselves, but wouldn't any change to the tax laws have to be confirmed in a future budget? As has been said here, they probably wouldn't wish to pursue this in the future because of all the claims on losing bets that they would need to take into account. They have enough of their work cut out as it is trying to get on top of all the administration!

and I have explained why they never will,swift tuttle.

they don't have to give tax credits to losers, so that 'fairness' argument doesn't work. In the US, they simply tax you if you have a big win - (greaterthan $10k, I think) - if you don't fill in an IRS form on the spot, you don't get your winnings.

yep..could just see i.r..making a tax allowance for the RACING POST...pens;pencils; and shoes for walking to betting shops......pmsl.

your point about claiming tax relief on losses would only apply to people whose sole form of income is from betting of course

Again nonsense I'm afraid, ST

If they can tax it it can also be offset.

Whether or not it is your sole income is totally irrelevant.

Imagine - all gamblers just register as pros (with other sources of income) then offset all losses against other income sources. Can't wait!

no no fb

this argument only applies to those people whose sole income is from gambling

Can't be bothered arguing about it,ST.Everything I have said is correct.

ST, sorry but you're wrong - sole income doesn't come into it. All income (whether from one or one hundred sources) is treated similarly in terms of tax. The tax man is happy enough to pick up corporation tax from the bookies. If not, more likely to re-introduce a betting tax than do anything else.

no s-t. It matters not whether it's part of your income or ALL of your income. It's not even taxable if horse race winnings are your ONLY form of income. It's not at all relevant whether you have other forms of income or not. The taxman looks at ALL your income over the year and will not take into account your winnings.

So, if your ONLY income is from horse racing, they will NOT be interested (and therefore tax you) on those winnings.

I'm absolutely certain of that. They may change the law in the future of course (but I doubt it very much), but as the law stands at the moment, the situation is that winnings from any source or competition is not taxable UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

betfair get taxed and they tax us, its called private enterprise and is a very easy way of doing it
the original question has been delt with a thousand times on here, if you are in this game seriously you know the rules, if you have to ask you are unlikely to be that succesfull so dont worry about it

You can also use your allowance to claim back tax on your savings...never bothered myself as it really does seem like taking the p!ss

Let me give you a scenario where it may apply.....

Your a one man bookmaker and outside of your job your a winning gambler.

Now if the tax man can connect your activity, you could be liable to income tax

Its not taxible, as someone said, if it were, you could claim on losses. In USA it is different however

"Its not taxible, as someone said, if it were, you could claim on losses. In USA it is different however"

Not the "you could claim on losses" red herring. You cannot claim on losses if you or not a business or have not paid tax in the first place. A business can claim on a very limited amount of trading losses specified in law but a business is paying tax in the first place.

If anyone still thinks you can claim back on gambling losses then please point us to the UK legislation that allows for that.

HMRC do not decide whether to tax or not - UK law does that. By law you have to declare your income to HMRC even if some is tax free such as ISA income. If you want tax free income on gambling you have to prove that the income declared was derived from gambling. If you can it will be tax free. If you do not declare it you are committing an offence in law.

An individual gambler does not pay tax as by a peculiar ruling in law he is not a trade or business.
If he organizes himself into a business, as Patrick Veitch claims, then he pays tax on the whole enterprise. This is all explained on the HMRC website so why don't people read this instead of giving their own half baked interpretations?