BHA's stance on sectional timing.

How much does it cost to run?

Too true Roger, they dont really want to take more readings after racing to make the going stick a useful tool, it can vary from about 4-30 hours which doesnt help when trying to form some opinion about its use at all.

The devices that are carried in the number cloth would also allow the order of the horses to be displayed on the screen. Surely this is something that racing for change should be campaigning for introduction?

Racing for change is just an excuse for some people to get paid for doing nothing.

Stop swearing info!?!

Johnny, don't suggest such noteworthy idea's to a poorly run and misguided bunch of no-marks.

Ps, how much does it cost?

How much could it cost to place a few antennae round a racecourse???? Here's my reply to the BHA:

You can tell your Racecourse Department from me that they are wrong in their points. Firstly I am interested in the ACTUAL distances races are being run at on the Turf and National Hunt, and All-weather racing in the UK. And I am not alone either. There are MANY punters who are sick of race distances not being as advertised and you are turning MANY punters off speculating on races run on grass.

A company called Trakus has developed technology in the United States since 2006, using antannae positioned round the racecourse and small micro*****inserted into the saddlecloth of each horse. Their website provides all the details necessary to assess a horses performance using time. They have implemented this technology at Meydan racecourse since it's inception in 2009. Using the data available the actual distance each horse travelled is availbale for the Dubai World Cup. Here we can see the winner of the race Gloria De Campeao travelled 2,014 metres during the race, as opposed to the British trained Twice Over who actually travelled 2,032 metres during the race. Twice Over's journey during the race took an extra 18 metres. 18 metres is 19.69 yards which a horse can travel in approximately 1.08 seconds, equating to about 5 and a half lengths. Twice Over was beaten 3 and a quarter lengths in the Dubai World Cup having travelled 5 and a half lengths further than the winner. And youre telling me that the punter doesnt want this information.
I am putting all this down to laziness on the part of the BHA. Laziness to not doing things properly. Laziness to not being brave enough to actually make British Racing the best in the world, instead of just saying it when everyone knows it's not. Youre telling me British Racing cant put a few antennae round its racecourses and a micro-chip in each horses saddlecloth. I find that laughable in 2010. Can you imagine the beauty of this technology at Cheltenham if we knew how far Dunguib actually travelled during his Supreme Novice hurdle race. As each day passes and important races go by, the BHA is doing a disservice to the racing public by not embracing this technology and moving British Racing forward instead of backwards.

Please forward my views to the man responsible for this.

Turftrax weren't out of business long as the Japanese snapped them up almost immediately. It's a wonder our backward BHA didn't come away with the tired old "you should only bother about time if you're in jail" line.

Good work Roger - I think British racing is missing a trick here. Or maybe they want it that way.

Good email Roger.

good response roger, please keep us updated with their response.

If anyone on here IS interested in having timing devices at British Racetracks I suggest an e-mail to the BHA should be forwarded as according to them, YOU the punter don't care about the ACTUAL distance a race is run over. As I said before can you imagine the 100 metres at the Olympics being run over 105 metres? Well thats whats going on every day at British racetracks. Which are SUPPOSEDLY the best in the world....

info@britishhorseracing.com is the e-mail address.

I think there has been a memo handed out saying "Can you please make life as difficult for punters as possible, i.e. False going reports, move rail, selective watering and anything else that you feel appropriate"

I'm starting to think the same. The clerk of the courses excuses are always we need fresh ground, we need safe ground etc. Okay so move the rails, put the water on, at least with these timing devices we will know actual distance each race was run over, the actual distance each horse travelled, all the relevant timing details, and THEN we will have an excellent opportunity with the data available at assessing how fast or slow the turf was riding.

Stroll on...

Gloria de Campeo (trap5) gets to the front and rails throughout - leading start to finish

Twice Over (trap11) runs midfield, 4 or 5 horses wide round 2 sweeping bends and runs an extra 18 metres :)

http://www.attheraces.com/VideoConsole/?va=MYD_2010_03_27_08_1745

DOH

Sectional Timing WAY WAY WAY down the list of priorities for ANY investment in racing.

What would you anoraks do with the freed up time if you were being spoon fed these stats instead of getting your own stopwatch out? and it would just give you something else to moan about.

At the moment I doubt that racetrack distances are actually what they say they are. When they move a running rail clerk of the courses simply cannot be bothered to re measure the distances. Imagine the 100 metres run around the world at various track some where in the region of 95 to 105 meteres, thats what we have in this country. sCourse con the public with going inaccuracies designed to fool trainers into declaring there horses ...... One cannot help thinking that to qualify to be a clerk of the course you need to be privately educated, thick and lazy

O M F G

I have just realised that there is NO WAY Twice Over only ran an extra 18 metres - does anyone have the radii of Meydams bends ??

perhaps the OPs complaint was the info was duff

Thought I'd seen your cv before joshuag.

sounds like youre the expert round here Mr Mzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, i'm sure you can work it out for yourself. Or do you want to be spon-fed the data??? So here's some advice for you: STROLL the F*** on.

not at all - I just dont need some worthless data - with a myriad of variables - to tell me that when you travel round 2 sweeping bends 4 or 5 horse wide you will run further than a railer

would sectionals for trap 6 at the whippets be of any interest ?

doughnut

What would you anoraks do with the freed up time if you were being spoon fed these stats instead of getting your own stopwatch out? and it would just give you something else to moan about.

I do use my stopwatch but it would be nice to have something official and 100% accurate. Maybe I should be glad that the technology isn't here as the information would be available to everyone.

so if the information is of no interest to you, do you have to come on the thread and abuse everyone else, telling us to basically f*** off. Nice.

Mr Myxlplyx, I wouldn't call the pace at which a horse ran throughout the race "worthless data"

and the official distance of a greyhound race is of the same consequence as a 2 mile hurdles race where the rails have been moved. I'm surprised youre actually up before 12 Mr Mz.

NO NO NO NO - Roger

You are the one asking folks to swamp the BHB with emails demanding they to pay for and provide you and your ilk with sectionals. Quite reasonably they say, they don't see it as a priority for their cash, and it had previously proved to be a commercial dud.

Now I can see from the above that you are a fan of the 2nd decimal place :) while discussing someting which represents less than 1% of the race itself.

Twice over did not run 20 extra yards but precisiely 19.67 :)

In your conversion from metres to yards to horse lengths to times - I feel you may have got overexcited and possibly gone over the top and attacked the BHA while firing blanks.

I found the Meydan layout and at a 2400m oval with 2 (approx) 700m straights - this leaves 1000m run on the bends. No doubt your calculater will have various scientific functions on it which gives us the answer that if Twice Over runs 2m wider that Gloria round both bends he covers an extra 18.18 meteres. Erection time - and allowing for a bit of pythagoras from trap 11 - we are nearly all square - if you excuse the pun.

I would just invite anyone reading this to look at the race.

P.S. if you are feeling a little floppy - I can tell you the bankings at Meydan are 5% and the straights cambered at 1.5%- hope this puts more lead in your pencil :)

where did you get this trakus information from Roger?

Good luck, Roger.

I have lobbied various people and bodies over many years trying to get sectionals to be on an official footing and to be displayed in various publications.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to counter the statement that there is not a widespread call for sectionals when the only commercial organisation that provided them found insufficient interest from the public to make it pay.

The BHA does not have the vision - on this and on several other projects - to see that it is the one that has the responsibility to make British racing popular and engaging domestically and around the world.

I fear you are banging your head against the same brick wall.

19.69 yards is only about 5.5 lengths if you think that a horse length is about 3.58 yards. Most people put it at about 3, some at slightly less. 19.69 yards is more like 6.5 lengths.

the public are interested but for free, so it will never happen

I said it was 19.69 yards further approximately, after all your workings you come with 19.67 yards, lol. Youve spent all that time on cambers and bends etc. The information is already given by the timers, in front of your nose. No need to work out cambers and %, and youre calling everyone on here anoraks!
Gloria travelled 2014 metres, Twice Over 2032 metres. No need to go looking at maps and cambers like you did. It's all been done by the timer in the saddlecloth ffs. The whole point of the excerise is not having to go and work out radiums, cambers and bends as you have done, and think you are more correct than a timer in a saddlecloth, the point is some punters could use this information. And there are a few on here who agree. Am I asking them to swamp the BHA with e-mails? No. I'm saying if they believe the BHA are wrong in assuming that this information is not wanted by punters, to e-mail them and say they ARE interested. Nothing more, nothing less.

The BHA has stated that individual horse times - which exist already and are used by the judge to determine margins between horses for official purposes - would probably have to be paid for by punters if the information were to be made public. Meanwhile, in places like Ireland and South Africa this information is available for free.

With this mindset in place among those who run racing, the chance of British punters getting sectionals for nothing is vanishingly small. Perhaps we should all just be relieved that we do not have to pay up front for lists of runners, declared jockeys, weights carried, and so on, as well.

very true prufrock. Have you analysed Fremens last run at Wolver yet prufrock?

The root of the problem is the way in which British Racing is funded.

If we had the same revenue streams as all the countries you quote as using sectionals then I'm sure we'd have them too.

As it is, you'd have to ask the Big 3 & Betfair to sponsor it.

lol rog - my 67 was a typo - you didnt say approximately at all - you were down to the centimetre and hundredth of a second after some ludicrous calculations

the point is there are so many variables and you sectionals guys have to factor in so many adjustments - your science becomes a total joke

i spent 5 mins digging up meydan info just to show how dumb you really are - and like I say - folks should watch this race to see what a ridiculous example you are using to berate the BHA

ps hope your head gets better

Well done Roger,a very good letter.
Meanwhile do you trust Barizan's time of 4.1 secs fast.Yes it blitzed round Punchestown on fast ground,but you have to wonder if the rails had been moved to give fresh ground.
If all things were equal,a great performance.

Mr Myx,do you have a problem with Roger?The guy has aired his views on here,and is trying to be helpful.Whereas you have responded with nothing constructive at all,which is certainly not of any help whatsoever.
Why bother ?!

i would use sectional timings for in running purposes.

not down to any centimetres MrMzz, merely taking the caluclation that 1 metre = 1.0936133 yards, giving 18 metres to be 19.685039yards on the calculator. I rounded it up 19.69 yards, you could round it down to 19.68yards if you like. The exact number to the .000000 isnt that important, I just found the timers workings on the race interesting, and being that the powers that be claim that British Racing is the best in the world, that this information should be accessible to the best racing country in the world.
I was hoping that some like-minded punters could inform the BHA that they are also interested in information like this.
I hope you got some sort of pleasure out of abusing people on this thread, and you can walk with a bigger spring in your step today. I always found when I used to ridicule others, it didnt make me a better person, and though the temptation is always there when one posseses a greater level of knowledge, I do my best to avoid this behaviour. Have a nice day.

thanks unbiased. I avoid the turf racing now as much as I can, and concentrate on the sand. Was nice to see Barizan get his reward for some decent efforts though pre-Punchestown.

Good stuff Roger

How many people pay for horserace databases? The BHA could have their own formbook with unique sectionals, short comments in running generated automatically by the trakus data with additional comments added by the jockeys & trainers themselves. That, on top of ir uses for trakus (ir betting software and relaying positions to mobiles) would pay for the system.

"comments added by the jockeys & trainers themselves."
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Is the flaw in your theory, feck. ...

Unless, of course, we all bet to the opposite of what they said - especially the mostly dim midgets.