Horse Antepost
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Obviously very early days but I have been sucked in to an antepsot bet on a horse that is currently going a bit under the radar.
The horse is question is Endorsement - trained by Aiden O'Brien.
Beautifully bred by Wooton Bassett out of an unraced Galileo mare who is a full sister to a number of high class middle distance horses including Johannes Vermeer.
He caught my eye big time on debut in a 1m maiden at Killarney in a race where he was the stable second string behind 2/5 shot Benvenuto Cellini who had there benefit of a previous, very encouraging, run at the Curragh. It was clear to my eyes that he was not asked for maximum effort and would have finished a lot closer to the winner with some effort from his jockey (Jack Cleary).
I looked forward to his next start which took place last Sunday at Tipperary in a 9f maiden which had a few horses who had shown promise on debut where he went off a well backed Evens favorite.
He was on the outer most of the way on a fairly tight turning track and despite a slightly awkward head carriage when first asked for his effort he eventually got well on top in the last half furling and won going away by 1 3/4 lengths.
After the race Wayne Lordan said things hadn't gone exactly as planned and he would have been watching the replay a few times if he'd got beat to see what he could have done differently. I think I read somewhere that he may be aimed at the Zetland next?
The last time I went in so early for the Derby was on a horse in the same silks who had a very similar early campaign - that was Japan who went agonisingly close to winning the Derby in 2019 with Wayne Lordan dropping his whip.
The horse is question is Endorsement - trained by Aiden O'Brien.
Beautifully bred by Wooton Bassett out of an unraced Galileo mare who is a full sister to a number of high class middle distance horses including Johannes Vermeer.
He caught my eye big time on debut in a 1m maiden at Killarney in a race where he was the stable second string behind 2/5 shot Benvenuto Cellini who had there benefit of a previous, very encouraging, run at the Curragh. It was clear to my eyes that he was not asked for maximum effort and would have finished a lot closer to the winner with some effort from his jockey (Jack Cleary).
I looked forward to his next start which took place last Sunday at Tipperary in a 9f maiden which had a few horses who had shown promise on debut where he went off a well backed Evens favorite.
He was on the outer most of the way on a fairly tight turning track and despite a slightly awkward head carriage when first asked for his effort he eventually got well on top in the last half furling and won going away by 1 3/4 lengths.
After the race Wayne Lordan said things hadn't gone exactly as planned and he would have been watching the replay a few times if he'd got beat to see what he could have done differently. I think I read somewhere that he may be aimed at the Zetland next?
The last time I went in so early for the Derby was on a horse in the same silks who had a very similar early campaign - that was Japan who went agonisingly close to winning the Derby in 2019 with Wayne Lordan dropping his whip.
Show More
So Benvenuto Cellini is NOT entered for the French Derby .
Why is that do we suppose?
Something to do with the fact his pedigree shouts 12f possibly?
Constitution Rivers pedigree shouts 10f and he is entered.
Conclusion?
Why is that do we suppose?
Something to do with the fact his pedigree shouts 12f possibly?
Constitution Rivers pedigree shouts 10f and he is entered.
Conclusion?
Ben will go to Epsom similarly, Pierre. Both need every metre of the trip it seems. The (external) unknown would be Item. Imagine Item doing both Ben and Pierre for acceleration at the business end. AOB and Coolmore will be beside themselves given the prestige and value attached to the Derby winner.
Both Con River and Hawk may not be needed for France. I think either is sufficiently qualified to win on its own. But, two is almost a given, I'd think. No supp is needed, and the horses need to run somewhere, maybe with The Eclipse as the next target.
I'm not bothered anymore. I've played, only a small wager. I'm already into Royal Ascot with 3 races in mind eg Queen Anne, Coronation and SJP.
Both Con River and Hawk may not be needed for France. I think either is sufficiently qualified to win on its own. But, two is almost a given, I'd think. No supp is needed, and the horses need to run somewhere, maybe with The Eclipse as the next target.
I'm not bothered anymore. I've played, only a small wager. I'm already into Royal Ascot with 3 races in mind eg Queen Anne, Coronation and SJP.
River would get 12f no problem
It’s an extended 10f at Chester and Ryan Moore described it to Chapman as being like piece of work.
They prolong the narrative by taking out Ben today and leave River in. Why would they leave in a certain stayer who needed a strong gallop?
By removing him it still leaves doubt and tilts the pendulum in his favour.
I
Slow horses don’t win the PDJC, Hawk Mountain a Group 1 winner was sent as marker? No I can’t see that, AOB never targets those trials normally.
Today the horse he beat there at Chantilly (Lord Clover) avoids him by going for the German 2000 guineas.
Stepping up in trip will only benefit Hawk Mountain and possibly even Constitution River.
The others aren’t sexy, NH stallions is the most they can be, so hoping he shows because the Derby looks terrible without him.
It’s an extended 10f at Chester and Ryan Moore described it to Chapman as being like piece of work.
They prolong the narrative by taking out Ben today and leave River in. Why would they leave in a certain stayer who needed a strong gallop?
By removing him it still leaves doubt and tilts the pendulum in his favour.
I
Slow horses don’t win the PDJC, Hawk Mountain a Group 1 winner was sent as marker? No I can’t see that, AOB never targets those trials normally.
Today the horse he beat there at Chantilly (Lord Clover) avoids him by going for the German 2000 guineas.
Stepping up in trip will only benefit Hawk Mountain and possibly even Constitution River.
The others aren’t sexy, NH stallions is the most they can be, so hoping he shows because the Derby looks terrible without him.
If Con River at 12f is no problemo perhaps he'd take in the Irish version, if missing Epsom and going to France instead. I think a Derby win even if it's the Irish version will enhance the horse's stallion fee in the shed.
But, as I've said earlier I'm past caring given the miniscule amount I'm betting these days.
But, as I've said earlier I'm past caring given the miniscule amount I'm betting these days.
I helped myself to a few bucks for Ben at 7 --> 8 yesterday. Then relinquished the same amount at 5. I'm merely playing them (inside info scums) at their own game.
Have had a small wager on the Braddock horse , rt handed stick really woke him up , hopefully more to come .
Wootton Bassett has zero 3‑year‑old runners over 12f, and zero runners in the traditional 12f Derby trials.
His best Derby‑trial performer was Incarville, who won a 10.5f French Oaks prep.
This is consistent with his profile as a sire of milers and 10f horses, not stayers.
River would get 12f no problem
Not saying you are wrong Delashay but I wouldn't be confident that you are correct
His best Derby‑trial performer was Incarville, who won a 10.5f French Oaks prep.
This is consistent with his profile as a sire of milers and 10f horses, not stayers.
River would get 12f no problem
Not saying you are wrong Delashay but I wouldn't be confident that you are correct
Hi Sandown I’m aware of that about his sire, so on the flip side imagine they had one that could? He’d be gold.
There aren’t that many 12f derby trials, they were never going to run him straight over 12f first time out. On class alone he beats this lot.
I posted lots about this on the main thread stupidly as it just gets looked past.
Impossible pointed out and reminded me of the breeding premium that he’s eligible for should he run and win in France, that’s more a reason to go there than trip for me.
I’d said that he’d reminded me very much of Whirl and she stayed fine in the Oaks.
There aren’t that many 12f derby trials, they were never going to run him straight over 12f first time out. On class alone he beats this lot.
I posted lots about this on the main thread stupidly as it just gets looked past.
Impossible pointed out and reminded me of the breeding premium that he’s eligible for should he run and win in France, that’s more a reason to go there than trip for me.
I’d said that he’d reminded me very much of Whirl and she stayed fine in the Oaks.
Delashay • May 11, 2026 6:39 PM BST
With the news that AOB is suggesting that Constitution River will go to Chantilly I looked back at the record of past Dee Stakes winners and where they ran next.
This year there is no Camelot or Rodin, or Australia who is the outright leading light for the Derby ahead of the winner.
2005 Gypsy King Kieren Fallon 2:16.47 - 5th @ 7/2 behind Motivator, Dubawi 3rd!
2007 Admiralofthefleet Michael Kinane 2:09.82 - 10th @ 14/1 to Authorized
2012 Astrology Joseph O'Brien 2:21.57 - 3rd to Camelot @ 13/2
2013 Magician Ryan Moore 2:12.96 - won the Irish 2000 Guineas @ 10/3 then last in SJP @ DawnAp
2014 Kingfisher Joseph O'Brien Aidan O'Brien 2:20.49 - 10th @ 50/1
2017 Cliffs of Moher Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:10.85 - 2nd @ 5/1 to 40/1 Wings Of Eagles
2018 Rostropovich Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.33 - 9th to Study of Man @13/2 PDJC, then 2nd 1m4f
2019 Circus Maximus Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:16.51 - 6th @ 10/1 Antony Van **** 13/2
no race 2020 [c]
2022 Star of India Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.25 - 13th @ 16/1 to Desert Crown
2023 San Antonio Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:19.90 - 10th @ 18/1 to Augusta Rodin
2024 Capulet Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:10.67 - never ran again
2025 Mount Kilimanjaro Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.89 - next ran in the Great Voltigeur
2026 Constitution River Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:06.54 - ???
In bold are the winners of the Dee Stakes who went on to run at Ascot. Only ONE went to the PDJC
With the news that AOB is suggesting that Constitution River will go to Chantilly I looked back at the record of past Dee Stakes winners and where they ran next.
This year there is no Camelot or Rodin, or Australia who is the outright leading light for the Derby ahead of the winner.
2005 Gypsy King Kieren Fallon 2:16.47 - 5th @ 7/2 behind Motivator, Dubawi 3rd!
2007 Admiralofthefleet Michael Kinane 2:09.82 - 10th @ 14/1 to Authorized
2012 Astrology Joseph O'Brien 2:21.57 - 3rd to Camelot @ 13/2
2013 Magician Ryan Moore 2:12.96 - won the Irish 2000 Guineas @ 10/3 then last in SJP @ DawnAp
2014 Kingfisher Joseph O'Brien Aidan O'Brien 2:20.49 - 10th @ 50/1
2017 Cliffs of Moher Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:10.85 - 2nd @ 5/1 to 40/1 Wings Of Eagles
2018 Rostropovich Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.33 - 9th to Study of Man @13/2 PDJC, then 2nd 1m4f
2019 Circus Maximus Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:16.51 - 6th @ 10/1 Antony Van **** 13/2
no race 2020 [c]
2022 Star of India Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.25 - 13th @ 16/1 to Desert Crown
2023 San Antonio Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:19.90 - 10th @ 18/1 to Augusta Rodin
2024 Capulet Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:10.67 - never ran again
2025 Mount Kilimanjaro Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:12.89 - next ran in the Great Voltigeur
2026 Constitution River Ryan Moore Aidan O'Brien 2:06.54 - ???
In bold are the winners of the Dee Stakes who went on to run at Ascot. Only ONE went to the PDJC
Delashay • May 11, 2026 6:56 PM BST
The year that Rostropovich went to the PDJC 2018 AOB was represented by Saxon Warrior 4/5f @Epsom and the Chantilly race came the day after.
The year that Rostropovich went to the PDJC 2018 AOB was represented by Saxon Warrior 4/5f @Epsom and the Chantilly race came the day after.
There’s NO odds shot or chosen one for the stable this year.
History shows that they’ve ended up at Epsom as you can see. Chester is the trial ground for Epsom.
The Cocked Hat on Saturday franked both runners form from Chester.
History shows that they’ve ended up at Epsom as you can see. Chester is the trial ground for Epsom.
The Cocked Hat on Saturday franked both runners form from Chester.
Delashay
Golden Shot has a 3lb higher rating for winning at Goodwood so not adding anything much to CR who doesn't need any franking really. CR looked impressive and the figures were excellent. If BC was not around or missed the race at Epsom for some fitness problem than I think CR would be re-directed for sure. Coolmore have to find a good replacement for Wootton Basset at stud . An Epsom Derby win for either would be their best outcome. I'm sure that assessment will determine who goes where.
Golden Shot has a 3lb higher rating for winning at Goodwood so not adding anything much to CR who doesn't need any franking really. CR looked impressive and the figures were excellent. If BC was not around or missed the race at Epsom for some fitness problem than I think CR would be re-directed for sure. Coolmore have to find a good replacement for Wootton Basset at stud . An Epsom Derby win for either would be their best outcome. I'm sure that assessment will determine who goes where.
Delashay • May 12, 2026 10:10 AM BST
We’ll see impossible, the past record of Dee Stakes winners is uninspiring but as I showed only one went to the Jockey Club in 2018 when Saxon Warrior was 4/5f for Epsom.
Ben is no short priced fav like him.
Mr Colonelwho Ben beat at Chester albeit over a different trip but has a line to Bonnard :
06May26
Chs C13yG3 82K 1m4½f Gd 9-2 3/5 btn 6L Benvenuto Cellini
11Oct25
Nmk row C12yG3 37K 1m2f GF 9-4 p1 5/8 btn 4¾L Pierre Bonnard
That’s not the form of a Derby winner in either race to me.
We’ll see impossible, the past record of Dee Stakes winners is uninspiring but as I showed only one went to the Jockey Club in 2018 when Saxon Warrior was 4/5f for Epsom.
Ben is no short priced fav like him.
Mr Colonelwho Ben beat at Chester albeit over a different trip but has a line to Bonnard :
06May26
Chs C13yG3 82K 1m4½f Gd 9-2 3/5 btn 6L Benvenuto Cellini
11Oct25
Nmk row C12yG3 37K 1m2f GF 9-4 p1 5/8 btn 4¾L Pierre Bonnard
That’s not the form of a Derby winner in either race to me.
I mentioned the form franking because the press were talking about it yesterday and it was one sided reporting, failing to say that the Godolphin colts was beaten in the Vase with Ben carrying a penalty.
He didn’t handle Chester however as Hoiles was saying throughout commentary.
He didn’t handle Chester however as Hoiles was saying throughout commentary.
Trainers are creatures of habit and I look at what they do over what they say. It’s a brave person who’s laying him on the reports that France IS the race for him.
That being the case, no point in running Hawk Mountain or Montreal who’ve both prepped there.
Just run the one colt, say what you’ll do without all the bolaaaax and go try and win it for the 3rd time!
That being the case, no point in running Hawk Mountain or Montreal who’ve both prepped there.
Just run the one colt, say what you’ll do without all the bolaaaax and go try and win it for the 3rd time!
Saxon Warrior won The Guineas courtesy of his stablemates who were riding shotgun for him. Hence his ridiculous shortie price here. And, just in case Pierre chooses to recapture his 2 yr old form at Epsom a price of 13 here could be enterprising and rewarding for his loyal supporters.
I agree with 'Sandown'. Only a misfortune with Ben would Con River be running here.
I agree with 'Sandown'. Only a misfortune with Ben would Con River be running here.
Delashay • May 25, 2026 10:57 AM BST
Hawk Mountain
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset
Endorsement
Constitution River
Hawk Mountain
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset
Endorsement
Constitution River
Leaves in six! 
If he takes 3 out and runs what’s been suggested it leaves a 16 runner field if the others stand their ground.
Draw is a gamble.
If he takes 3 out and runs what’s been suggested it leaves a 16 runner field if the others stand their ground.
Draw is a gamble.
Re Wootton Bassett.
Sired King Of Steel who was just done by Auguste Rodin @ Epsom.
There was 4-5Ls back to the 3RD.
Sired King Of Steel who was just done by Auguste Rodin @ Epsom.
There was 4-5Ls back to the 3RD.
Who moved the market on CR Sunday morning I wonder? How much did PP take or not take?
In the old days when the known "faces" put bets on horses the bookies would retreat to their bunkers for restitution and coffee.
17/2 is hardly a drift compared to Gstaad who went right out before the Guineas when AOB said he might go France and PRico Newmarket
After the fiasco with Fairy Godmother, Bedtime Story and Lake Victoria to name three the statements of AOB and reports of the racing journos esp at the Racing Post carry little weight with me.
Tom Seagal seemed to think Epsom was the target in his article this morning not that I could read it all!
Hawk Mountain
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows - scratched today
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset
Endorsement
Constitution River
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows - scratched today
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset
Endorsement
Constitution River
The French handicapper has both Hawk Mountain and River both on the same mark top rated.
So you could say it’s even odder that he remains :
Segall :
“Every year they run horses at Epsom who might not stay….. and it would certainly be a change of strategy were Constitution River to miss Epsom for Chantilly, especially when Coolmore have two live chances of winning the Prix du Jockey Club in Hawk Mountain and Montreal, who have been on the French programme all along.”
Segall :
“Every year they run horses at Epsom who might not stay….. and it would certainly be a change of strategy were Constitution River to miss Epsom for Chantilly, especially when Coolmore have two live chances of winning the Prix du Jockey Club in Hawk Mountain and Montreal, who have been on the French programme all along.”
Was matched just now @ 18 back into 8
A grand has been put on today
A grand has been put on today
A grand is significant. I'm trying to build a warchest on Pierre at 12.5 and more. I think there could be a sting in the tail this year. Moore had chosen wrongly 2x in the Classics so far.
CR to Chantilly confirmed. Makes sense as the only difference between CR and BC is that stamina no longer in doubt for 12f whilst CR has more than enough pace for 10f.
I expect BC to shorten to 3.0 at best for Epsom and could be shorter as the opposition looks weak.
I expect BC to shorten to 3.0 at best for Epsom and could be shorter as the opposition looks weak.
Just released that he’s going to France, strange people were backing him?
He could and should have just said have just said that Epsom was not or ever an option.
No interest in this years Derby for me now as the colts don’t excite me.
He could and should have just said have just said that Epsom was not or ever an option.
No interest in this years Derby for me now as the colts don’t excite me.
Con River is out to 40 here, and 25 in the high street. I'm glad that's been confirmed.
conformed, with this lot awouldnt surprise me one little bit , theyll change their minds by tomorrow
Any betting for the French version? Graffard has a stellar charge declared too.
It’s priced up and as I posted the French handicapper has River & Mountain top rated so odd you’d run them against eachother.
If that happens could Con River be scratched and rerouted to Epsom? I think Hawk Mountain is an able sub for France.
Con River is 7/4. Is he ground dependent? I do not know the present going at Longchamp.
It’s at Chantilly and the draw is important.
There’s an unbeaten German horse called Gostom 1111 20/1
Guess who’s been booked?
BILLY LOUGHNANE!
There’s an unbeaten German horse called Gostom 1111 20/1
Guess who’s been booked?
BILLY LOUGHNANE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe1I_vBaXQM
Was his first start of the year.
The 3rd Peace Of Japan 40/1 also runs.
Was his first start of the year.
The 3rd Peace Of Japan 40/1 also runs.
Report• Quote • Block User Delashay • May 26, 2026 10:41 AM BST
Delashay • May 25, 2026 10:57 AM BST
Hawk Mountain
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset - Scratched today
Endorsement - Scratched today
Constitution River
Report• Quote • Block User Delashay • May 26, 2026 10:46 AM BST
Leaves in six!
If he takes 3 out and runs what’s been suggested it leaves a 16 runner field if the others stand their ground.
Draw is a gamble.
Delashay • May 25, 2026 10:57 AM BST
Hawk Mountain
Causeway - scratched
Flushing Meadows
Christmas Day - scratched
Montreal
Dorset - Scratched today
Endorsement - Scratched today
Constitution River
Report• Quote • Block User Delashay • May 26, 2026 10:46 AM BST
Leaves in six!
If he takes 3 out and runs what’s been suggested it leaves a 16 runner field if the others stand their ground.
Draw is a gamble.
It’s unusual for him to run so many especially with two being top rated.
Last year it was 2 St Marks and Trinity Collage.
Year before was just dirty Diego!
Last year it was 2 St Marks and Trinity Collage.
Year before was just dirty Diego!
Got to be a chance they pull CR and re-route to Epsom.
Glad that Endorsement wasn’t declared in France which hopefully mean he runs at Epsom. Sadly he will almost certainly be used as a pace maker.
Glad that Endorsement wasn’t declared in France which hopefully mean he runs at Epsom. Sadly he will almost certainly be used as a pace maker.
You never know with that lot Uncle, money still being out in River
Was 29, 100 odd this morning now 29, 700 +
They can’t pull it now after talking about how Ryan will try to negotiate the draw. So who’s backing?
They can’t pull it now after talking about how Ryan will try to negotiate the draw. So who’s backing?
29, 800 + now 25 just matched sloooow trickle but still people backing
RP interview today with Peter Brant co-owner of BC. Very positive. Interesting man.
"If you go back in history there are a lot of great stallions who have won it, and sometimes horses that run a mile and a half have speed. With Benvenuto, he's shown a nice turn of foot at a mile [finishing third in the Futurity on heavy ground at Doncaster last October] and won at Chester over the Derby trip in a race [the Vase] the Magniers really value and believe in, so we have a lot of hope for him.
"Aidan has always liked him and he's out of a great mare [Newspaperofrecord] by a great stallion, so he's everything you hope for, but getting it done is a difficult thing and we have to see if he has the experience for that."
"If you go back in history there are a lot of great stallions who have won it, and sometimes horses that run a mile and a half have speed. With Benvenuto, he's shown a nice turn of foot at a mile [finishing third in the Futurity on heavy ground at Doncaster last October] and won at Chester over the Derby trip in a race [the Vase] the Magniers really value and believe in, so we have a lot of hope for him.
"Aidan has always liked him and he's out of a great mare [Newspaperofrecord] by a great stallion, so he's everything you hope for, but getting it done is a difficult thing and we have to see if he has the experience for that."
The weather forecast for Epsom next week is unsettled with many days with precipitation. What effects could that have on the principle runners eg Ben, Item and Pierre? Ben was heavily inconvenienced when finishing behind Hawk Mountain and Action in the The Futurity at Doncaster; Pierre won The Criterium in St Cloud on very soft going; Item ?
AOB: "Pierre Bonnard has improved a lot since his 2nd run at Leopardstown. We thought he'd, and he's - he's a different horse now."
If Moore chooses him over Ben given the probable (softer) going more market shenanigans over the next few days.
If Moore chooses him over Ben given the probable (softer) going more market shenanigans over the next few days.
25 years ago I had an incredible double , Imagine and Galileo.
I im getting the feeling there might be a repeat.
Racing Post
"Aidan O’Brien has compared Betfred Derby favourite Benvenuto Cellini to his legendary grandsire, the 2001 Derby winner Galileo, as he looks ahead to a potential Derby double over the next two weekends.
Marking the anniversary of Galileo’s Epsom victory in a major interview in Sunday’s newspaper, O’Brien said: “Benvenuto is the most incredible mover, very like his grandad [Galileo]. He might be a bit quicker than him, too. But he has that beautifully balanced action. His movement is incredible. He moves with so much class."
O’Brien and the Coolmore team faced a major dilemma with their two star colts, Benvenuto Cellini and Constitution River, after both won at Chester this month. In the end, while Benvenuto Cellini heads to Epsom, Constitution River will run in Sunday’s Qatar Prix du Jockey Club.
The trainer has admitted that connections were tempted to run Constitution River at Epsom, but in the end it was the likely distance preferences of both horses – Constitution River is even felt capable of dropping to a mile later in the season – that swayed the decision.
I im getting the feeling there might be a repeat.
Racing Post
"Aidan O’Brien has compared Betfred Derby favourite Benvenuto Cellini to his legendary grandsire, the 2001 Derby winner Galileo, as he looks ahead to a potential Derby double over the next two weekends.
Marking the anniversary of Galileo’s Epsom victory in a major interview in Sunday’s newspaper, O’Brien said: “Benvenuto is the most incredible mover, very like his grandad [Galileo]. He might be a bit quicker than him, too. But he has that beautifully balanced action. His movement is incredible. He moves with so much class."
O’Brien and the Coolmore team faced a major dilemma with their two star colts, Benvenuto Cellini and Constitution River, after both won at Chester this month. In the end, while Benvenuto Cellini heads to Epsom, Constitution River will run in Sunday’s Qatar Prix du Jockey Club.
The trainer has admitted that connections were tempted to run Constitution River at Epsom, but in the end it was the likely distance preferences of both horses – Constitution River is even felt capable of dropping to a mile later in the season – that swayed the decision.
Benvenuto always looked like he would get a mile and a half, which he did at Chester,” he said. “We always felt he would get a mile and a half but could come back to a mile and a quarter, whereas Constitution River will have no problem coming back to a mile. He looked like he might get a mile and a quarter, so he went to Chester to find out and he looked like he did. Chantilly will be another test for him.
“If you bring him to Epsom you're bringing him into an even bigger unknown. Obviously the French Derby will be another big step up but he oozes class and what excites everyone about him is the way he does everything. He canters through his work and he canters through his races. And then he quickens. That's what he's done in all his work and in all his races.”
As for Benvenuto Cellini, O’Brien feels his Futurity Trophy defeat last season has toughened him up and turned him into a proper Derby horse.
"Benvenuto was a very good horse last year,” he added. “He had to go to the Racing Post [Futurity] Trophy and he had to tough it out there in tough conditions. He had to go through that pain. He grew up that day.”
“If you bring him to Epsom you're bringing him into an even bigger unknown. Obviously the French Derby will be another big step up but he oozes class and what excites everyone about him is the way he does everything. He canters through his work and he canters through his races. And then he quickens. That's what he's done in all his work and in all his races.”
As for Benvenuto Cellini, O’Brien feels his Futurity Trophy defeat last season has toughened him up and turned him into a proper Derby horse.
"Benvenuto was a very good horse last year,” he added. “He had to go to the Racing Post [Futurity] Trophy and he had to tough it out there in tough conditions. He had to go through that pain. He grew up that day.”
I think it is a huge compliment to Benvenuto that they are running Constitution River at Chantilly.
They are greedy truckers and know that River would have ran past him, this keeps a mega rich owner happy and is a horse who’ll stay. One of very few.
Why’s this Ben the good thing liked to the great G not shorter? Ie 11/10?
He won the favoured Derby trial with a penalty, took some pulling up, it’s been strongly intimated by the trainer that he’s Moore’s pick but I can get 9/4.
hey are greedy truckers and know that River would have ran past him, t
Bold statement Delashay. What are you basing this on?
Bold statement Delashay. What are you basing this on?
I've two free bets. One on Ben, the other on Pierre. The latter would win me 2x the former.
It's 10am wednesday 3rd June. This is 72 hrs prior the race itself.
'Delashay', AOB could be replying to your post about him saying things to boost his horses.
AOB: "People think I say things to boost up my horses. I don't. Ever. I only say what I think at the time. Maybe I'm a bit of a dreamer."
AOB: "People think I say things to boost up my horses. I don't. Ever. I only say what I think at the time. Maybe I'm a bit of a dreamer."
Is Constitution River a good thing for todays Chantilly outing?
After calmly assessing the race , I can see that he has a favourites chance but he is not a 3.05 chance (BF currently), in my estimation. Leaving aside the hype, and even without the problem of an outside draw, I cannot make him a bet. Add in the wide draw, and he is easy to leave alone although I wouldn't lay him.
The once raced Daryzan is impossible to put a price on as it is complete guesswork with him. He won a slowly run race so his shortish price is down to connectios as much as form.
I wouldn't rule out a complete outsider winning but no involvement for me.
After calmly assessing the race , I can see that he has a favourites chance but he is not a 3.05 chance (BF currently), in my estimation. Leaving aside the hype, and even without the problem of an outside draw, I cannot make him a bet. Add in the wide draw, and he is easy to leave alone although I wouldn't lay him.
The once raced Daryzan is impossible to put a price on as it is complete guesswork with him. He won a slowly run race so his shortish price is down to connectios as much as form.
I wouldn't rule out a complete outsider winning but no involvement for me.
There has been a lot of discussion about who is the better horse, Constitution River or Benvenuto Cellini, but I have them on exactly the same mark. As yet, neither of them anything special, and on a mark more likely to finish placed in a moderate Derby than actually win one. BC's profile is more of a concern, as I don't have him improving at all from 2 to 3. I have CR up 8lbs from last year. That said, he wasn't fully tested last year, so whether he has genuinely improved I couldn't be sure. Obviously both horses have only had the one outing this season so there's no saying they can't come on a bundle. It's just that at these kinds of prices I want to see the proof, not just the potential.
As for today's PDJC. I saw Timeform state that CR had run the fastest Derby trial this century. Well not on my clock. It was nothing special time-wise, and there have been loads of much faster trials. Strictly on figures I actually have Hawk Mountain 1lb higher than CR on his best 2yo form. His trial in France wasn't impressive, however it was slowly run and he still may be capable of going close if returning to his peak. So I have the O'Brien pair ahead of the rest today, but it's not a high bar, and unless one of them improves again it's easily possible one of the lightly raced French 3yos could improve to win. No bet.
As for today's PDJC. I saw Timeform state that CR had run the fastest Derby trial this century. Well not on my clock. It was nothing special time-wise, and there have been loads of much faster trials. Strictly on figures I actually have Hawk Mountain 1lb higher than CR on his best 2yo form. His trial in France wasn't impressive, however it was slowly run and he still may be capable of going close if returning to his peak. So I have the O'Brien pair ahead of the rest today, but it's not a high bar, and unless one of them improves again it's easily possible one of the lightly raced French 3yos could improve to win. No bet.
Its an interesting race to reflect on in that it raises what makes for a good bet and that requires an assessment of all the alternatives. Focussing on just one horse is a mistake. Especially when what we know is not enough to arrive at an opinion. The unknowns here are what effect the wide draw may play, just what is the potential for the improvement potential for several others beside Daryzan. Then the tactics involved in a 16 runner race.
To back a horse around 2/1 I need to think that horse has around an evens chance. That is not true today. I would rather have a bet on the potential of Daryzan at 6/1.
No Bet.
To back a horse around 2/1 I need to think that horse has around an evens chance. That is not true today. I would rather have a bet on the potential of Daryzan at 6/1.
No Bet.
What a brilliant ride by Moore ,training performance by AOB and team tactics. Very special.
Sandown, obviously much easier to execute when faced with a field that turned out to be almost total dross.
Best horse won, with no excuses for the rest. Still a very poor renewal of the PDJC, with less than 4 lengths covering the first 8, including some really mediocre runners. Some serious improvement needed for these horses to be beating genuine Gp1 performers later in the season.
I think we have seen something special. The time was apparently very fast although I 'll need to see the sectionals before evaluating the race. Clearly the vibes about CR were right . I have BC about the same going into this race, so I'm hopeful that we may see another good horse next Saturday. It doesn't look as competitive as this one.
I think we have seen something special. The time was apparently very fast although I 'll need to see the sectionals before evaluating the race. Clearly the vibes about CR were right . I have BC about the same going into this race, so I'm hopeful that we may see another good horse next Saturday. It doesn't look as competitive as this one.
You think that is genuinely Gp1 form? I take the point before the race about the possibility of the draw being a negative for CR. However, the way it panned out I don't see how it became a negative at all in the race itself and see no reason to mark up CR significantly. The race was run well enough to sort the wheat from the chaff, therefore the only reason so many finished in a cluster not far behind was due to it being a poor race.
You think that is genuinely Gp1 form?
Can't say yet Figgis. Its special because AOB et al dominated the race, not because of the possible form rating. Need to think about the implications for next weekend. I have money running onto the Derby and Oaks so will be giving thought to that next.
Can't say yet Figgis. Its special because AOB et al dominated the race, not because of the possible form rating. Need to think about the implications for next weekend. I have money running onto the Derby and Oaks so will be giving thought to that next.
As stated the French Handicapper had them equal and Montreal upped his, not a great race, bubble burst.
As for this you can poke it sideways.
The Derby needs you! The King and Queen are actively backing our greatest race - now it’s on the rest of us to do the same
Epsom is expected to look busier and better when the premier Classic is staged in front of the monarch on Saturday
author image
Lee Mottershead
Racing writer of the year
The Derby needs you! The King and Queen are actively backing our greatest race - now it’s on the rest of us to do the same
Epsom is expected to look busier and better when the premier Classic is staged in front of the monarch on Saturday
author image
Lee Mottershead
Racing writer of the year
Not here to knock AOB. He produced his runners spot on today. Just think that given the opposition proved absolutely dire the stuff being spouted on the racing channels is hyperbolic guff. AOB has achieved far better than this in his career.
Sandown, I know you're big on Benvenuto Cellini for the Derby (I'm not), which have you backed in the Oaks?
Precise. Although not heavily involved yet but have got doubles going with CR , CR and P, and CR and BC. Precise needs more thought .Looked impressive at the Curragh but time nothing special. Has got a great finishing kick in her though. Stamina an imponderable. Backed her in the Irish 1000 because of the price. Got carried away a bit at the time.
As for the Derby, will cover that later in the week.
As for the Derby, will cover that later in the week.
kincsem • May 30, 2026 3:20 PM BST
I gotta horse.
When is the last declaration?
This week
I gotta horse.
When is the last declaration?
This week
impossible123 • May 30, 2026 4:01 PM BST
'Delashay', AOB could be replying to your post about him saying things to boost his horses.
AOB: "People think I say things to boost up my horses. I don't. Ever. I only say what I think at the time. Maybe I'm a bit of a dreamer."
Yeah hi Aiden O’Lennon!
'Delashay', AOB could be replying to your post about him saying things to boost his horses.
AOB: "People think I say things to boost up my horses. I don't. Ever. I only say what I think at the time. Maybe I'm a bit of a dreamer."
Yeah hi Aiden O’Lennon!
With the close proximity of all these finishes at 2 & 3
Racing Post Trophy, Irish Derby Trials, The Prix Du Jockey Club today, I’m of the opinion that there aren’t any standouts amongst them.
Racing Post Trophy, Irish Derby Trials, The Prix Du Jockey Club today, I’m of the opinion that there aren’t any standouts amongst them.
Well I was right that Endorsement would win when stepped up to a mile and a half in the first week of June.
Figgis
In reply, I have backed Legacy Link for the Oaks. She looks an improver over 12f and whilst the ground is now GS I think she will be OK on it. I make her most likely winner and at the price currently around 4.0 is value imo.
As for the Derby, without the going change I would be very strong on [b]Bienvenuto Cellini[/b as a horse with all the right attributes for a Derby winner. Tomorrows forecast is not helpful but I am sticking with BC in the hope that Moore will make use of the better ground on the inside with the new ground there. BC looks like he will be handy so I expect Moore to claim the inside.
Otherwise, in the event of heavy going, PB could be a contender.
In reply, I have backed Legacy Link for the Oaks. She looks an improver over 12f and whilst the ground is now GS I think she will be OK on it. I make her most likely winner and at the price currently around 4.0 is value imo.
As for the Derby, without the going change I would be very strong on [b]Bienvenuto Cellini[/b as a horse with all the right attributes for a Derby winner. Tomorrows forecast is not helpful but I am sticking with BC in the hope that Moore will make use of the better ground on the inside with the new ground there. BC looks like he will be handy so I expect Moore to claim the inside.
Otherwise, in the event of heavy going, PB could be a contender.
Such a difficult race to have a bet in with the going getting worse by the hour and the possibility of them coming stand side where it seems whoever bags the rail about 2f out can’t be passed.
I hope PB wins for Soumillon one of the best jockeys of his generation and it would be nice if he can get a Derby winner on his CV before he retires. Indeed it would be his first English Classic which is hard to believe.
I hope PB wins for Soumillon one of the best jockeys of his generation and it would be nice if he can get a Derby winner on his CV before he retires. Indeed it would be his first English Classic which is hard to believe.
Derbys that look poor on paper beforehand can sometimes prove to be better than expected, but I have to say at the moment this does look to be among the weaker Derbys. Last year I had Benvenuto Cellini on a mark that would only see him possibly get a place in a mediocre Derby, with obvious potential to improve on that at 3. Even though he won decisively at Chester I have him only replicating his 2yo mark. Obviously that was his first run of the year and there's the possibility that he can step up again with that run behind him. Nevertheless, when 3yos only replicate their 2yo marks I've seen more go backwards next time than show improvement, so he makes no appeal to me.
I have Item top rated on a mark that would usually only be worth a place in a normal year. So he's vulnerable to an improver, but this might not prove to be an up to scratch Derby. He wasn't exactly all out last time but when watching it I didn't think he had an easy race. I saw a Balding interview where he mentioned the horse had quite a hard race. But they seem happy with him so hopefully he's fully recovered from that. That being his first start this year he may even improve again, but by all accounts he appeared very fit for the Dante, so I'm not banking on improvement today. I'd have him as fav here, so he's my bet.
I have Item top rated on a mark that would usually only be worth a place in a normal year. So he's vulnerable to an improver, but this might not prove to be an up to scratch Derby. He wasn't exactly all out last time but when watching it I didn't think he had an easy race. I saw a Balding interview where he mentioned the horse had quite a hard race. But they seem happy with him so hopefully he's fully recovered from that. That being his first start this year he may even improve again, but by all accounts he appeared very fit for the Dante, so I'm not banking on improvement today. I'd have him as fav here, so he's my bet.
An improved performance from Christmas Day, which I certainly didn't envisage after the Dante run. I have it as a below average winning effort, but definitely not the worst, and a bit faster than the likes of Lambourn, Wings Of Eagles, Harzand and Ruler Of The World. Maybe a few of the runners were hindered by the ground and then there was the stalls incident with the fav. However, I'd still take the winner against any of these that might reoppose him, and I'd take him against Constitution River.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539