Even Soumi thought he could win had it not been shedding the shoe and until 100 meters out Ryan didn’t think that he’d win.

Makes for an eagerly awaited spectacle going onto York.

Anyone fancy how Field of Gold would have ran yesterday? Because that’s got to be of consideration as 6/4 Fav with a race yet to be run in between.

Noted Hannon mentioned Goodwood and Deauville yesterday for Rosellion. Most likely will avoid FOG.

I see the RP have Ombudsman 7lbs lower yesterday than for the POW. The problem for them was they just went way too high on the POW form, but glad they haven't tried to double down and make the Eclipse seem better than it actually was.

But let’s remember that he bought two horses and doubled his chances.

I’ve asked how to post a photo but no one has helped.

Have a look at the two alongside on the line. It was a mighty performance to give such a big horse 10lb.

I’m not sure I’d use Crystal Ocean as a benchmark regardless of the ratings.

What we have is what’s around now and within that pool I’d say that he’s top clsss, the (ratings aside) his effort to back up his Ascot run and almost become the 3rd horse to do the POW Eclipse double is something that’s rare.

Normally I'd accept the closeness of the POW to the Eclipse as being a possible negative, but that's when a horse runs a really fast figure in the POW and has quite a hard race. Ombudsman did neither of those things. As said, his time performance was about 4lbs (2 lengths) short, and because of the trouble in running his delayed effort meant he didn't have as hard a race as if he'd kicked on over a furlong out. He ran the final furlong in under 12 sec. No excuse on that score, in my view.

In short I enjoy the racing and get tired with comparing because I think it’s false to try judge over the years and circumstances.

It’s like comparing boxers.

Sandown I recall your posts about Deep Impact and the journo who’d bigged him up in the post all year before the Arc.

Since then even though I was on ew @ 7/1 I never follow what people or ratings say, there’s always a different angke to what’s on paper.

I understand that but we’ve both said that the French crop didn’t seem good and yet they won a G1 today, beating two one time favs.

A Guineas runner upper to the second top rated -  and wonder horse Lion where you been?!

they won a G1 today, beating two one time favs

They did, but take a look at the level of performance. A half a length between the first 4. Whether using time or form that race couldn't be called top class. A Gp1 in name only, the winning performance was Gp3, at best.

*Amongst them

But as punters we care more about winners than history and where the last winner sits amongst in general

That's fair enough, as long as it doesn't stretch to hyperbole about sub-par Gp1 winners. In today's Prix Jean Prat a punter could easily have taken the view beforehand that it probably might not require a Gp1 performance if Shadow Of Light and TLIW underperformed again. SOL was the only horse to have previously put up anything like a genuine Gp1 effort when winning the Middle Park, but that seems a long time ago now. People got carried away with his Guineas effort but off that slow early pace it proved nothing. I started to feel a bit sick watching the race as I had considered backing Maranoa Charlie but decided against, and for a moment I thought he might win.

*From a form

I'd say Woodshauna is highly unlikely to even come close to winning another Gp1, even in a poor year like this.

These are from the horse racing forum :

Delashay • July 7, 2025 8:49 AM BST
You can add the likes of Dancing Gemini into that for knocking on the G1 door.

The Jean Prat was always a weak consolation G1 for milers from ours and their Guineas to take in.

They kept the status but changed the distance and the track, more emphasis on speed, as you had to stay to win when at Chantilly.

Shadow of Lights season has fallen apart from what was a great run first time up in the Guineas. Anyone think it’s odd that he’d pull Ruling Court from the Derby because of the ground.
Yet, run Shadow of Light on ground that they said was too quick at Ascot? Surely they knew he’d not like?

One horse cotton wool wrapped, the other not.

How about any of the others from the race?

Shadow Of Light is the only one who has put up a Gp1 figure, that was in the Middle Park. The market confidence against the fav that day told that he'd been working better than ever going into that. He duly put up a performance much improved on everything he'd done before, even allowing for the fav below form. He won the Dewhurst shortly after but that was a poor affair and I have him 8lbs below the Middle Park effort. People got carried away with his Guineas run but I actually have that a further pound below his Dewhurst win. The slow pace suited him and proved nothing regarding him training on or not.

TLIW put up what I'd call a Gp2 miler figure when winning the Acomb. Although it's a figure that would've comfortably won this year's Derby if he'd repeated it on the day. I wouldn't say he won the Acomb in a comfortable manner, looked hard fought to me, and he had a setback afterwards. Yesterday's performance was obviously his best this season but I have it 8lbs short of his York win. It's anybody's guess whether he will be right back to form next time and even the yard won't know yet. As usual with that outfit a strong market move will be the only true indicator of how he's been working. The RP say Maranoa Charlie put up a career peak yesterday, but I have it 2lbs below his previous race. He's just not a Gp1 horse, well not in a normal year anyway.

Just looking at the Falmouth. It might end up a deeper race than some years but the quality of years gone by is severely lacking. Let's hope something improves on the day, because on paper it looks crap.

I rate them equally, although I would probably put the small p next to Delacroix, as he possibly could improve again, but I wouldn't bank on it. That Eclipse win was still nothing special, however, even if it was exciting and dramatic to watch. I'd say Paddington was a very good winner of the race, not outstanding like Sea The Stars, but well up to scratch. At the moment I have Delacroix 7lbs below the winning performance Paddington put up.

Actually I'm not sure how he was rated by the firms but I think generally he was underrated. Might've been different if he'd gone out on a high, but he was unsurprisingly burned out by the time of his final race.

I noticed that the WFA scale used for the Eclipse was 10lb and not 12lb as the 2017 WFA revision has it. I asked AI to explain why so and apparently this happens sometimes when the authorities look at longterm outcomes for elite races. The RPRs show a 3lb higher rating for the winner than the  neck difference would normally provide. Yet for the distance to the third horse of 1.75L they have allocated just 1lb difference in RPR. On TS ratings, those given show ratings of 95, 96, 91 for 1,2,3.So, on RPR's they have Delacroix superior to Ombudsman by 3lbs but inferior on time by 1lb. Confusing?

I would agree with Figgis that the POW rating was somewhat high, but in my view D benefitted by coming so late that Buick had no time to respond although  the result may have been the other way round if Ombusman had been held onto for longer before taking it up, as at Ascot. Personally, I see Ombudsman bbeing better at 12f and Delacroix being perhaps better at 8f.  At 10f there clearly isn't anything between them.

Will we see Gosden's horse in the KG?

Delashay • July 7, 2025 9:10 AM BST
For me the ratings and form real,y take on another dimension when horses travel. I don’t have an idea of how he’s rated but I’d call Romantic Warrior a proper horse. In that he left his back yard where he was dominant and transferred his form onto the Dirt (I know that they train on it at Sha Tin).
I was against him in the Dubai turf because of the hard race that he’d had previously. The form can be crabbed but for me he’s still a yardstick to a level.
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