KING GEORGE, ASCOT , JULY

Calandagan's trainer's hinted that he needs a break, it might be Goliath (2ND to Isle Of Jura)
who he might run in this.

another out for the season,, isle of jura

geldings shouldn't be allowed in this race

The price of Auguste Rodin has contracted in contrast to that of City Of Troy which has taken a walk to the bushes.

I read in the RP the other day that Auguste Rodin's POW winning performance was only good enough to have taken 3 of the last runnings of the KG. I don't have it good enough to have won any of them. In fact I'm struggling to see a KG that could've been won by that form even before the last 10 years. It was a Gp2 performance at best. That said, nothing else in this year's race has put up anything better this season. What a poor renewal in terms of quality.

I have a different take on Auguste Rodin than most. I reckon he was a top class staying 2yo (better than City Of Troy). I kept faith with him in the Derby (the only time I've ever backed him) but I believe he won that and his other Gp1s by making no improvement whatsover since his 2yo year. It was that early ability that has carried him through. The RP have his POW an improved 1lb career best. Whereas I actually have him running a few pounds slower than when he was justly thrashed by White Birch. Obviously he has a winning chance again in this field but I won't be backing him at these odds.

Continuous still has the potential to develop into a proper Gp1 4yo, but his only run this year was a backwards move and it would need to be taken on trust that he's come on a lot for the run, so not for me. The only one I can make a case for at the prices is Luxembourg. He wasn't as good a 2yo as AR, nor as a 3yo, but on his 4yo best I have him capable of running AR very close now that the latter gets no allowance. On his only start this year he won the Coronation Cup very easily, without having to run as fast as he can because Moore set a slow early pace on him. There ought to be more in the tank, and if he turns up on the day I think he's worth a punt.

2 taken out , Continues and point lonsdale, 9 run

Auguste Rodin needs things to go his own way or he sulks and checks out.  And even when he thinks he is in charge, he is vulnerable to a late charger (like White Plains) and won't battle.  I think AOB found him a soft race at Royal Ascot, but this King George is tougher.
By contrast, Rebel's Romance is a winning machine and top class.  I expect Rebel's Romance to finish ahead of Auguste Rodin.  I don't think Blue Stocking is good enough; her 2 recent wins came against other fillies.
It depends how short Auguste gets.  I have noticed that when I have laid favourites  in the Saturday main events recently, they have shortened to ridiculous prices late on and I feel that I should have waited to the last minute. If he gets close to evens near the off, I will definitely be a layer.

I have put up a more concise thread up on the horse racing forum but for wiw here's my take ,not that much between  on ratings and it should be a strongly run race at the prices I like Goliath and Dubai honour who can be backed at 33s and 28s ,Goliath is lightly raced has good form and looks to be improving 33s looks big ,Dubai honour has top class form abroad and this trip looks fine nowadays and any of the two could run into a place at  least.

AR won't battle?. Seemed to outbattle King Of Steel in the Derby and Luxembourg in the Irish Champion. Not bad performances I would say.

AR looks good value - much better than the others. worry is he hasn't thrown in a stinker for a while so might be due one

You,ve got to love Soumy. Lovely to watch.

Nice one Foyles. Hope you had plenty on.

Yes, well done Foyles!

well said Foyles again

thanks guys hope some had some ......try my best had a good whack on but when they win at a decent price I as most gamblers always think shooda had more on !

You don't need much on at 28/1 to be in clover

had my bets at 33s mostly b356 but  should have hit corals and  this morning as well but they were only going 28s so didn't bother wi em.

Get that round the World cruise booked.

Great shout, Foyles.
Very well done mate.

Very well done Foyles. Quite impressive from the horse too, who hasn't just won an extremely weak renewal, as it looked beforehand, but has won with a close to par winning effort and did so comfortably.

aidan blaming the ground for AR but the time was fast

thanks guys couldn't believe how well it was going 3 out ,the stablemate calandogon could be a machine

THOUGHT HE WAS MONJEAU THE WAY HE WAS MOVING .

well done marksman

Calandagan and Jan Brueghel appear to be the principals at 7/4 with Kalpana (9/2) and Rebels Romance (11/2) playing the supporting roles; Continuous (125/1) is the pacesetter for Jan Brueghel. And, only 5 this renewal.

god, i dont like the feeling that the outsider might steal this, PS ON A SENSIBLE LEVEL WHAT HAPPENED TO ISLE OF JURA ?

Delashay • July 26, 2025 9:05 AM BST
The success of the winners - and the placed - of the King George in the Arc
In the English Summer Arc, the success of the winners and those placed is very often synonymous with success in the French Arc... but it also works in the opposite direction...


Undoubtedly one of the best springboards for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, the 'King George' is obviously a major goal in itself, but its winner and even his 'placed', are experiencing great success on the first Sunday of October (5 October this year) in the tricolor flagship race over 2,400 meters. Bluestocking is a glaring example, she will make the Arc her own in 2024, about 70 days after his second place in the King George behind the Frenchman Goliath, who beat her very clearly, but who could not compete for the Arc as a gelding (like Calandagan). As for the Enable crack, it will not only achieve the double in 2017, but will also win the 2018 Arc and the 2019 and 2020 King George. Third in 2019, Waldgeist will shine at Longchamp two months later in the 'QPAT' with P.-C. Boudot. Even more surprising, the case of Workforce, penultimate in 2010, then crowned in the Arc a few weeks later with Ryan Moore (who will be in the saddle on Saturday on Jan Brueghel). Second in 2023, Westover will also finish 2nd in the Arc. First in 2016, Highland Reel will rank 2nd. Winner in 2014, Taghrooda will be 3rd at Longchamp. We can also have the opposite way... With Danedream, who will make the 2011 Arc his and then the 'King George' in 2012... Ditto for Hurricane Run (2005-2006) and Montjeu (1999-2000). These two races are, so to speak, twin and both in one direction as well as the other, the list is far from exhaustive...

Going back to ‘78 only one Gelding has won the race.  That was last year.

These days this race often gets criticism in comparison with versions from years gone by, but, as far as I'm concerned, in most seasons the winning performance is as good as it ever was. I generally prefer the KG to the Arc as a betting opportunity and it remains one of my favourite races. That said, in this year's race I don't have any of the runners reaching the mark of what I'd consider a typical winner.

After all the hype surrounding Kalpana I expected to see an improved filly this year, but I've been unimpressed. In my view the two Gp1s she couldn't win in Ireland were both crap. The hype still continues though as I see her being tipped in the RP to win this and go on and win the Arc. She has still only had two runs this year and could well improve again. If she does win today I'd say well done to her backers as they've seen something I can't see.

I've liked Jan Brueghel for this race since he won the CC. Since then I always thought he was going to be O'Brien's runner in this instead of his favoured runner at the time, Los Angeles. At the moment I have him 3lbs below a typical older horse winner of this race, but that could be good enough this year.

It seems everywhere I've looked the case is being made for Calandagan to turn around the form. I backed him last time where despite winning easily I don't rate it an improvement on what he did at Epsom. Arguments have included the easier track today and the fact that Calandagan has some faster sectionals. I can understand the points made but in my view they would only come into play if this was a falsely run race. That seems unlikely unless Coolmore make a mess of the front running like they often used to years ago. With the pacemaker going way too fast and everyone else ignoring it.

It would be foolish to be dogmatic about a rematch when I have only 1lb separating JB and Calandagan. Regardless of external influences such as the track, one of them might be physically a pound or two better today or a pound or two worse. It was quite a hard race at Epsom, and while Calandagan has shown he has come out of the race well it remains to be seen about JB. Nevetherless, I am happy to take the price on JB today as I would still have been prepared to back him if the prices had been reversed.

Well done Calandagan backers. Nobody could say he didn't deserve a big one. The pace wasn't ideal but that was no excuse for my bet Jan Brueghel, who just wasn't in the same form as he was last time, but that was always a possibility. He probably excelled himself in the CC, and the addition of cheekpieces today and lack of real market confidence was probably a sign that connections weren't seeing quite what they wanted from him. I don't believe Calandagan ran a career peak to win today. Kalpana ran her best race, certainly better than I expected. However, I think the slow early pace possibly enabled her to run closer to Calandagan than she might've done off a truer run race. She's been shortened for the Arc after that but I still couldn't back her. Although, she probably ran to a level similar to Bluestocking and she went on to win a poor Arc.

Thanks for sharing your pre and post race thoughts Figgis. You took that well, considering the strange tactics employed.
Was surprised that you went for him as I remember that you were taken by the Frenchie last time.

Delashay, they weren't the tactics I was hoping for but that was no excuse for him to run as bad as that. I only backed the French horse last time on the strength of the Coronation Cup form/time. At Epsom JB ran far faster than anything he'd shown before and Calandagan showed he improved nicely from 3 to 4. Looks like the big difference is that Calandagan is a horse who can comfortably run to that level repeatedly. JB just looked knackered.

I think you’re being very kind Figgis and for me it stunk as a race and tactics. I thought your selection looked big and saw the cheekpieces as a negative.

We know he got first run at Epsom and it’s a similar thing with his horses being repeated. Win then bomb out in a G1.

I’d never bought into him despite his high win record. Sosie had smashed Illinois in the GPDP and he wasn’t fancied by any for the Eclipse.
His Longchamp record is immaculate and I think that they went for the wrong race at Sandown. He’s always been a real stayer to my eye and would have loved seeing him there today at that distance.

Delashay, if he'd stayed on and just been out-sprinted I'd have blamed the tactics. Beforehand I actually thought the biggest chance of him being beaten was him just not being in the same form. When a horse runs much, much faster than before, especially in a hard fought race you're always left wondering if this is now a new level for the horse or if they've run out of their skin and left it all out there with that race. Unfortunately for me it looks like the latter.

Obviously it would be no surprise if he returned to his best next time but he'd had a 50 day break since the CC so I'm less forgiving than if he'd returned quickly. I won't be following him but hopefully he doesn't go the way of Continuous, who I still regard as a better than average Leger winner.

You could be right, but, for me, last time Sosie ran as fast as he ever has but was finally shown up in a fairly decent Gp1 for a change. I think he's been massively overrated like Aventure, but we'll see.

Thank you Figgis, it’ll be interesting to see who Goyen rides come the Arc. French form can look a certain way but the level normally stands from experience.

second gelding to win in as many years - before then I can't remember the last time. middle distance breeding is dying - 10 years from now this race will be full of willie mullins runners

figgis i backed continious at 180 he came down to around 60 before the off, surely the way he was ridden today should have been closer in the finish, he was cantering 3 out, and i honestly thought that he had a big chance

Elisjohn, yes it was surprising how quickly he dropped away considering the slow early pace and how well he had travelled, even taking into account that he has looked a shadow of the horse he was. The jockey said he lost a shoe.

AT - Going back to ‘78 only one Gelding has won the race. That was last year.

And obviously now this year. Graffard had said that his two best horses last year were geldings. Was upset that they never lifted the restriction on them running in the Arc last year.

Figgis how much impact does losing a shoe cause?

Figgis how much impact does losing a shoe cause?

I have no idea . Going by the times I've seen it reported, I'd say generally not that much. Suppose it depends on the individual horse, track, ground, front or back shoe, etc. Something didn't look quite right yesterday anyway.

Strange race yesterday.
Continuous did not settle for the majority of the trip.
Jan Brueghel was the first one off the bit despite setting slow fractions.
The first two home were sat off the sedate pace.
Another unsatisfactory G1.

Thanks! it looked inexplicably wrong! Another nightmare for team tactics?

Wasn’t suggesting that it had an impact on Continuous, just curious what people think about it.

middle distance breeding is dying - 10 years from now this race will be full of willie mullins runners

A_T, it's a bit early to think it'll become a trend. At least I hope it won't be. I think so far it's just been a poor season all round, especially for older horses. There was a Tom Segal article the other day about the lack of quality in Group races and how well backed horses are easily winning big handicaps. I completely agree when looking at the time performances this year. For example, My Cloud was talked of as a Group horse in a handicap after winning last time. In my view he has never run fast enough to even go close in an average Listed race. He was simply a well handicapped horse in an absolutely dire version of the Hunt Cup.

brandyontherocks • July 27, 2025 1:12 PM BST

Another unsatisfactory G1.

Sounds bitter like a backer of Brugel!

Who?

You you have an axe to grind with me. Formed an early opinion and stuck to it. It’s your loss! But keep reading the updates as you might become better educated.

Apart from the interesting thoughts from posters on the antepost forum, it has, on the whole, avoided the childish insults which occur daily on the main forum.
So I will not turn this thread into one of those.
You are more than welcome to repost the losing opinions I posted over a year ago. Because, young man, when you get to my age you will know you will back more losers than winners.
Your disgusting,  derogatory comments about women yesterday make you someone I have little respect for.
So I will leave it there.

don't know  how  loosing a shoe  affects horses but would imagine if the shoe came off mid race or full speed it would have an unbalancing  of momentum affect ,imagine yourself running and a shoe or trainer came off ! its gotta have a negative affect imo.

Forget that you corrected the spelling one of my first posts here, which wasn’t welcoming for a newbie nor big of you. Since you’ve been snide and sniped as you’ve tried to find fault constantly, yet come off second best when trying to correct me still.
I share the info for all and encourage positive engagement in race discussion, from the outside this forum looked all but gone.

Favourite wins the King George, lots of happy punters and delighted connections who should be commended for travelling their horse and looking forward with making plans to do so again.

Yet to you :

brandyontherocks • July 27, 2025 1:12 PM BST

Another unsatisfactory G1.

FOYLESWAR • July 28, 2025 7:18 AM BST
don't know  how  loosing a shoe  affects horses but would imagine if the shoe came off mid race or full speed it would have an unbalancing  of momentum affect ,imagine yourself running and a shoe or trainer came off ! its gotta have a negative affect imo

Thanks Foyles it makes sense what you say. We’re used to hearing excuses being made after a loss and I wonder how much true impact this has. It must cause a slight loss of action I’d imagine depending on how long it takes to work free and shake off.

I’ll write why I’m interested about a runner once I know the line up of the next big race.

Dela,the homophobic,phantasist poster

Fantasist,even

I suggest Smoky and especially you Brandy that you tell the above that certain things aren’t appreciated here.

Delashay • July 21, 2025 4:19 PM BST

It’s sad we have a dual Derby winner who’ll dodge for a former Leger winner. Surely going for the leger himself downgrades his Derby wins?

Impossible loves Jan Brugel but I don’t think beating Illinois was any great shakes and Jans was ridden to take advantage of Calandagan being held up at Epsom.
Now we have the rematch, doubt Whirl will show but it would be nice to see her try to do what Treegooda did, as she was purposely kept away from Minnie Hauk to allow her to become a dual Oaks winner.

Will the Vermille be Whirl’s 12f G1 target instead?

Anyone doubt that Whirl was kept away from Minnie Hauk?

Delashay • July 26, 2025 11:02 AM BST
Whirl is still unexposed over 12f as is Minnie Hauk, unimpressive last time and you’d have to question the form. Did she give her true running at the Curragh, had wemightakethelingway much further back at Epsom.

Delashay • July 26, 2025 4:21 PM BST
Surprised at Kalpana and that gives the Whirl form a boost, which we’d touched on earlier.

The above comments from the thread on horse racing below

uk runners only a handful ran in eclipse. irish derby/oaks , and now 2 in K, George

Whirl had nothing on the lay side for the Arc at time of posting, due to needing supping. Now 9.2 second fav…

Minnie Hauk and Whirl could go for The Arc. Whether they do will depend greatly on their next race eg Minnie Hauk (11/10 Yorkshire Oaks/21st Aug)); Whirl (Vermeille/7th Sept).

I think it's unlikely both will go for The Arc. A convincing winning performance from either respectively will increase their chances. At the moment their elders are much of a muchness including Kalpana and Jan Brueghel; a 7/10lb wfa is an added bonus.

There’s No chance that they’ll both run against eachother ever again. Whirl has the Opera and Vermeille entries.

What races are Minnie Hauk enter in France? Is she in the Opera and Vermeille too?

Yes she’s entered for the Vermeille, LOpera and Royaleau - not the Arc.