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11 Oct 20 19:53
Date Joined: 09 Jan 11
| Topic/replies: 23,757 | Blogger: FOYLESWAR's blog
this could cut up and a good few with questions to answer ie altior age and is he the same horse after the titanic struggle with cyrname ,defi d s needs to put a dissapointing effort behind him ,fakir d (trip) target said to be ryanaire ,and not sure put the kettle on will be coming over ,this looks to be politilogues early season target and then on to another crack at the champion chase and he can be backed at 11/1 b365  paul nicholls has said have him "mad fresh and blast off from the front " a normally superb jumper he looks value to me each way and i have been chucking a few tenners and scores at him every so often and will continue to do so .
selection politilogue 11/1 each way ...........................good luck opinions encouraged . stand back and stand by!
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Report unclepuncle October 12, 2020 7:56 PM BST
Does look a crazy price. Sadly B365 shut my account years ago.
Report Hibore October 14, 2020 5:50 PM BST
Copyright Hibore 29th March. Laugh

Hibore 29 Mar 20 11:08 Joined: 23 Jun 07 | Topic/replies: 2,154 | Blogger: Hibore's blog
Good write up Foyle. I’m definitely in the camp the race fell into Politologues hands with Defi never travelling at any point of the race and the withdrawals of Chacun and Altior.
I’m keeping my powder dry regarding the Champion until things clear up with horses targets early next season.

However, I have spotted a interesting price for the Tingle that I think may be better value than your 20/1. You can see Politologue running here and with doubts any of the Irish will travel over 10/1 is very generous  The field is normally quite small so EW first 3 is not the worst bet I’ve ever seen.
Report FOYLESWAR October 14, 2020 6:44 PM BST
hope your lawyers are not watching hibore Laugh
Report impossible123 October 23, 2020 4:57 PM BST
Again the target for Altior. Apparently he's never been better, according to his trainer.
Report sageform October 24, 2020 11:59 AM BST
They were bullish last season but he was never near to his previous best. Made hard work of beating Sceaux Royal who he laughed at the year before. He is still the one to beat of course but he will be 11yo on January 1. Defi is the puzzle. He would be a good thing on his best but ran terribly at Cheltenham and the Hobbs yard look terrible since July.
Report impossible123 October 24, 2020 8:30 PM BST
I think he'd be in same trajectory as Enable ie downhill. This race will tell us. Hold your bet.
Report sageform October 28, 2020 12:02 PM GMT
although Defi is younger than Altior, he started as a 3yo so has had almost as much racing. 21 runs against 24 for Altior. Both could bounce back this year but I suspect that a new brigade will take over the 2 mile division soon.
Report unclepuncle November 2, 2020 4:11 PM GMT
Whatever happens in the Tingke Creek Defi should be aimed at the Ryanair - trip and track (New Course) much more suitable.
Report Hibore November 16, 2020 11:21 AM GMT
After yesterday I doubt you will see any of the Cheltenham brigade in Esher.

That leaves Politologue, Altior, Rouge Vif and Greeneteen ?

RF was still 16/1 after being pulled out yesterday and is 8/1 now. Value ?
Report FOYLESWAR November 16, 2020 3:50 PM GMT
if the ground is similar to yesterday doubtfull he  would he run .
Report sageform November 16, 2020 3:54 PM GMT
Still very happy with Politologue at 25 for the C. Chase. I will wait to see the plans for the Tingle before having a bet.
Report impossible123 November 16, 2020 4:15 PM GMT
Assuming Mullins' charges and Shloer winner stay in Ireland (shame Un Des Sceaux retired) Altior could walk into the winner's enclosure without breaking sweat if age is no barrier; Altior only raced once last season - the Ascot race was a baloney by his trainer.

I believe Put The Kettle On is a big danger if showing up, and very soft going.
Report FOYLESWAR November 16, 2020 6:36 PM GMT
she had a hard race yesterday a bit of a grueller, not ideal ,
Report FOYLESWAR November 16, 2020 6:40 PM GMT
bear in mind she is shorter for the mares chase than the champion
Report irish wizard November 16, 2020 6:59 PM GMT
are there entries for this race or when would it be confirmed who is possibly running ??
Report FELTFAIR November 16, 2020 7:07 PM GMT
The race is December 5th so 10 day decs would be mid week next week.
Report ReaseHeath November 16, 2020 10:02 PM GMT
Sceau Royal has actually looked better than ever this Autumn - albeit over hurdles - but will surely only run if the ground is decent.

Conversely I could see Waiting Patiently running a big race off along lay off as he did last year but he would need it soft.

Unoriginal but the race revolves around Altior - he's 10 going on 11 and the flat spots seem to last longer with every race but you have to think Henderson will have him cherry ripe for this...

I might chance Sceau Royal on proper good ground though (seems unlikely)
Report sageform November 17, 2020 8:48 AM GMT
Does nobody fancy Duc de Genievres, also an Arkle winner, and only just caught by Put The Kettle On. With a little more time to get to know him, Paul Nicholls could easily turn him into a champion 2 miler imo. His racing style on Sunday was very similar to that of Politologue.
Report ReaseHeath November 17, 2020 12:29 PM GMT

Nov 16, 2020 -- 10:02PM, ReaseHeath wrote:

Sceau Royal has actually looked better than ever this Autumn - albeit over hurdles - but will surely only run if the ground is decent.Conversely I could see Waiting Patiently running a big race off along lay off as he did last year but he would need it soft.Unoriginal but the race revolves around Altior - he's 10 going on 11 and the flat spots seem to last longer with every race but you have to think Henderson will have him cherry ripe for this...I might chance Sceau Royal on proper good ground though (seems unlikely)

Scratch Sceau Royal- not even entered, the following are:

Castlegrace Paddy
Defi Du Seuil
Duc Des Genievres
Esprit Du Large
First Flow
Fox Norton(!)
Magic Saint
Rouge Vif
Simply The Betts
Waiting Patiently

A longer list than I expected - no Put The Kettle On but Defi obviously has n't gone back to Martinstown for an MOT just yet...

Report irish wizard November 17, 2020 5:06 PM GMT
How come on a search it was impossible to find the entry date for this race and then all of a sudden it is announced today ???
Also its an absolute joke Castlegrace Paddy is the only Irish horse going over ! Gone be the days when Moscow went over and we saw some real battles between the Best of the Best.
Report sageform November 18, 2020 8:42 AM GMT
If you had a good horse in Ireland would you risk having to use an unfamiliar jockey and have 2 or more staff quarantined for up to a month?
Report sageform November 18, 2020 8:44 AM GMT
I could see a Nicholls 123 there. Altior and Rouge Vif are the only ones that I would be frightened of if I was him.
Report irish wizard November 18, 2020 7:09 PM GMT
sageform18 Nov 20 09:42Joined: 15 Jun 01 | Topic/replies: 18,666 | Blogger: sageform's blog
If you had a good horse in Ireland would you risk having to use an unfamiliar jockey and have 2 or more staff quarantined for up to a month?
Rate reply:

The Tingle Creek is the top 2 mile race outside of the Queen Mother.. For the prize money thats on offer its hard to fathom that Mullins or Elliott would not send some challenge over. In recent years at least Willie had sent over Un De Sceaux. It is just very disappointing from a racing point of view.
Report Hibore November 18, 2020 7:37 PM GMT
I think the race will cut up quite badly. This is my guess at the final field.

Rouge Vif
Waiting Patiently

I won’t be swapping my 25/1, 16/1 and 12/1 Rouge Vif leading pillar to post. Altior may need the run, Greaneteen needs to improve his jumping and may not be good enough and Waiting Patiently is more like the invisible man.

Politologue would be a big danger if wound up but may give way up front to Rouge Vif who both will want to be prominent.
Report impossible123 November 19, 2020 1:46 PM GMT
How did you manage to get those prices for Rouge Vif? Inside info? I hope bookies will still accommodate you post this win. I'm on Altior at 7/2 for a few pittance - his fitness and well-being and ability are taken on trust and history.
Report Hibore November 19, 2020 7:38 PM GMT
Hi Imp, I backed RF just after the Cheltenham win at 25/1 hoping he would go to Tingle next. I then posted on Saturday once he became a non runner that 16/1 and 12/1 were still available as bookies hadn’t put 2 and 2 together.
Report impossible123 November 20, 2020 12:10 AM GMT
Good luck. I did something similar with Limato (10/1 to 7/4) for the Sprint Cup (Haydock) and 'ok koral' stopped/restricted then rescinded every promotion and my bets. The horse was withdrawn on the day due to ground.
Report sageform November 20, 2020 8:44 PM GMT
anyone read any comment from Nicholls re Duc de Genievres plans? He would be my choice along with Rouge Vif if he runs.
Report buddeliea November 21, 2020 8:18 AM GMT
Doubt we will see him after last weeks slog!!
But if hes recovered must have a fair chance.

A lot will depend on the ground, did they not pull RV out last week cos of ground? If its bad again they would do the same i imagine.
Report sageform November 21, 2020 9:23 AM GMT
I thought that DDG was travelling easily until going to the last when the lack of a run caught him out and he got lonely on the hill.
Report buddeliea November 23, 2020 8:00 AM GMT
Trying to win races against top opposition in heavy ground will take a toll on any horse.
Report impossible123 November 23, 2020 9:52 AM GMT
the ground was good/good to soft last meeting; next 14-day is pretty friendly. Altior does not want it too soft either.
Report buddeliea November 29, 2020 7:58 AM GMT
Will be there on Saturday, cant wait to go racing again, been far too long.
Excited to see Altior again.
Report impossible123 November 29, 2020 4:10 PM GMT
Lucky you. Excited to see Altior again - indeed. I hope he wins (he ought to given his rating) and exposed or soft opposition.
Report Hibore November 30, 2020 1:34 PM GMT
Declared decks are out now. Nearly got it spot on...

Rouge Vif
Waiting Patiently (Missing again) Laugh


Fast flow (won’t run)
Brewingupastorm (really ?)
Castlegrace Paddy maybe run if field cut up any more
Esprit du large might run

Can see possibly 6 runners
Report duffy November 30, 2020 1:50 PM GMT
When RUK show some memories of past Tingle Creeks this week it's going to be heartbreaking when comparing them to this field.

God help us if Altior doesn't get thereCry
Report buddeliea November 30, 2020 1:53 PM GMT
Dont say that Duffy!!
Report duffy November 30, 2020 2:01 PM GMT
Sorry, hope you have a great day budd, I saw him once at the festival 2 years back when he got up on the run in, was standing along the rails when he came back down after the race...good stuffHappy
Report harry callaghan November 30, 2020 2:08 PM GMT
Am I missing something here but this greaneteen is 4/1...I’m confused by this, you would think altior should be 4/6 against these horses. We will see I suppose, let’s hope the good horse puts up a good display
Report harry callaghan November 30, 2020 2:19 PM GMT

I can only think the odds compilers have had a get together and had a good smoke of the hookah pipe filled with good herbGrin
Report harry callaghan November 30, 2020 2:30 PM GMT
Nice horse but surely should be 7/1 here
Report Hibore November 30, 2020 2:41 PM GMT
Not sure why Greaneteen is shorter than Rouge Vif ? 6lbs better off than a handicap and looked a class act last time when allowed to stroll on.
If Altior had run that race he’d be 1/3 Saturday.

Still think Altior will win but looking for e/w value.
Report buddeliea November 30, 2020 5:01 PM GMT
Thanks Duffy, it will be a good day whatever,just glad to be able to see the horses again.

Early thoughts for punting are Rouge Vic, and the outsider EDL who ran well at this meeting last year.

Will have no problem cheering Altior on though!!
Report impossible123 November 30, 2020 5:12 PM GMT
7/2 Altior antepost. I hope he wins for a few shekels.
Report harry callaghan November 30, 2020 5:16 PM GMT
Budd does going right handed worry you at all with rouge vif? Lovely prospect I do like him, just is he been as good right handed in you’re opinion? Trainer surprisingly quiet I might add
Report buddeliea November 30, 2020 5:37 PM GMT
Slight concern Harry, as i believe most of his runs have been left handed,and his best runs have been, but he has run good races right handed.
I think hes a serious horse for the QM if ground suits, and if the price tempts me i shall have a small wager Saturday.
Report paulo47 December 1, 2020 12:09 PM GMT
Just worthwhile keeping an eye on the forecast , there is the possiblity for 24 hrs rain from Thursday am , not all heavy , and even the weather people arnt sure , but enough so that with Friday's racing it could be fairly desperate by off time . Looks good now and for Wed , but am sure PN will be rain dancing .
Report impossible123 December 1, 2020 12:26 PM GMT
I'd like to see Rouge Vif (weather permitting) in the race and Altior - young pretender vs old guard; Politologue was a fortuitous winner of the Champion Chase with Altior and Chacun Pour Soi both sustained an injury just before the race. And, I do not think Greaneteen is good enough.
Report paulo47 December 2, 2020 8:17 AM GMT
Have laid Altior and backed the Nichols pair and EDL , for me the weather outeweighs all sentiment . Nicky has been at pains again this week to point out that he nearly didnt run Altior twice on soft ground and Rouge Vif's preferences are also well known . Absolutely agree with Foyles (again ).
Report buddeliea December 2, 2020 12:19 PM GMT
Dont get the soft ground thing with Altior, hes won top races on soft inc this race and the Queen Mother.
For me its all about how good he is these days, and we wont know that until he runs.
Report paulo47 December 2, 2020 12:45 PM GMT
He has indeed , and been beaten twice on soft . Plus the trainer stated he was 50/50 about runnng him on it and he is back after an abscence with bigger prizes hopefully ahead . Obviously if the rain doesnt come I will seem insane , no change there .
Report buddeliea December 2, 2020 1:00 PM GMT
Well I know he got beat over 2m5f on soft but the other one must have been way back cos he’s ran up a long run of wins on all types of ground for years .
Still if Nicky is not sure whether to run him on soft now that’s fair enough, but unless it’s heavy I expect him to turn up.
Report harry callaghan December 2, 2020 1:00 PM GMT
Altior has recorded his best figures on soft going against min in champion chase, against un de sceux in the tingle creek and against the monster cyrname. Not sure the going angle will be his undoing, we will see I suppose
Report harry callaghan December 2, 2020 1:29 PM GMT
The handicap figures say different but I still think altiors best performance was in the champion chase when he beat politologue...he went with the hare in that race and the rest just sat out the heat before he then buried those horses who’d had it good on the run in...the more I think about it he should be 2 on here...I don’t get the angle with the Nichols second string and I’m not sure what the rouge horse beat left handed at Cheltenham, he can still improve but he will have to and any rain will be a nail in his coffin add to which he goes right handed here...I maybe wrong but you are getting good odds here if you don’t mind betting a short one...politologue can at least race him but his sandown figures are not the best in comparison with his Cheltenham runs, I’d say castlegrace paddy who is a nice horse but he looks to have a nice race at cork on Sunday and brewinupastrom has the Peterborough Sunday so can see this cutting up
Report harry callaghan December 2, 2020 1:33 PM GMT
Basically I think he can’t get beat Happy
Report buddeliea December 2, 2020 4:33 PM GMT
Just had e-mail saying tickets available for friday and saturday at sandown
Report duffy December 2, 2020 5:45 PM GMT
What is now beginning to bubble below the surface with the market for races involving Altior IMO is the anticipation now that the time may be coming where he's going to regress and when it comes we will see him get old overnight, as it were.

People are desperately trying to find angles into other horses skewing the market against Altior because of this.
Report impossible123 December 2, 2020 6:42 PM GMT
Will Altior be as good as his 2nd Champion Chase performance on saturday? I'd think unlikely given his age, and inactivity since early Feb 2020. Will he win? I think so given his rating over the others bar Politologue himself is no spring chicken either, and Rouge Vif (ground permits) with respectable credential.
Report harry callaghan December 3, 2020 11:01 AM GMT
6 Declared
Castlegrace Paddy
Rouge Vif
Report FOYLESWAR December 3, 2020 11:37 AM GMT
had a fair bit of rain overnight in south east london  and still going now ,not pishing it down but steady constant rain and not a million miles from sandown.
Report sageform December 4, 2020 12:07 PM GMT
It will certainly be testing.
Report buddeliea December 4, 2020 1:35 PM GMT
Hopefully drying up a bit now, and nice day forecast tmrw.
Report FOYLESWAR December 4, 2020 9:01 PM GMT
altior nonner according to sporting life
Report harry callaghan December 4, 2020 9:07 PM GMT
Report Autocue December 4, 2020 10:59 PM GMT
Another winner for Henderson stable staff.the city failure does it time and again.
Report layingisthewayforward December 5, 2020 12:03 AM GMT
Lol, gone from being in the best shape for years to a none runner. Good old Nicky.
Report Autocue December 5, 2020 10:25 AM GMT
I remember Viking Flagship winning the Queen Mother three weeks after a hard race on heavy ground when he got beat giving a stone. They don’t make trainers like they used to.
The bottom line is Henderson has rich owners and the use of racecourse gallops at Newbury. It’s easy for him to make it all about Cheltenham but for me the Sandown course will always be a better test of a two miler.
Report FELTFAIR December 5, 2020 11:53 AM GMT
Backed Politologue in this last year and was never at the races So Having a very speculative each way on Brewinupastorm and also Castlegrace Paddy in the 2 place market.
Report FOYLESWAR December 5, 2020 2:30 PM GMT
thatll do nicely!
Report harry callaghan December 5, 2020 2:41 PM GMT
Well done foyles
Report knot in wood December 5, 2020 2:41 PM GMT
whatever happened in the race that was a cracking selection Foyleswar, well done hope you won plenty.
Report FOYLESWAR December 5, 2020 2:43 PM GMT
thanks lads ,........
Report sageform December 5, 2020 3:00 PM GMT
Well done. I have not won much today but I have Allmankind at 25/1 for the Arkle and Politologue at 20/1 for the QM so happy with that. Both in my 10 to follow as well.
Report FOYLESWAR December 5, 2020 3:07 PM GMT
thanks and well done on yours
Report paulo47 December 5, 2020 4:58 PM GMT
Happy days Foyles haha
Report FOYLESWAR December 5, 2020 5:06 PM GMT
well done paulo.
Report Autocue December 5, 2020 5:55 PM GMT
The novice and grade 1 were both run 3s slower than standard. Paul Nicholls made Henderson look like a ponce.
Report nocturnal December 5, 2020 6:34 PM GMT
Bang on Autocue

How can two pieces of connected track be so different in going ?

Absolute disgrace from Sandown,just what is going on here.

Questions need to be asked.
Report impossible123 December 5, 2020 10:11 PM GMT
What a shame Un De Sceaux has been retired. Otherwise he'd have walked over these lot on the prevailing ground; sponsor none too happy either, I'd imagine.
Report GI MAC December 6, 2020 7:20 AM GMT
wp Foyles, nice price.
Report FOYLESWAR December 6, 2020 10:30 AM GMT
thanks mac nice when it comes off ,
Report WhiteHatJon December 6, 2020 12:18 PM GMT
Lovely Foyles, hope you punished them.

VWD and keep them coming please !
Report FOYLESWAR December 6, 2020 12:54 PM GMT
john as we know you can never have enough on ! always that "shoulda had more on when they win of course"  a decent win nethertheless thanks
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