Horse Antepost

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26 Aug 20 12:27
Date Joined: 09 Jan 11
| Topic/replies: 22,371 | Blogger: FOYLESWAR's blog
paterson has put up a kg thread on the chelt forum and very good write up too ,just think its better we have one on the ante post forum ,t real steel is too big at 33s with baldy  imo . no horse was going better on the turn in in the gold cup this fella traded way short in running but in the end  the trip and hill were his undoing . doesnt look fast enough for the ryanaire and the gold cup is too far ,the king george looks ideal imo . switched to paul nicholls from willie mullins and with the same owners who had king george winner silviniaco conte for the same trainer no suprise if connections have this race on their  minds . nichols has the fav and dual   winner clan des obeuax and he will have every chance if lining up  and he will be hard to beat but 33s , nicholls dont mind going mob handed in this race and  also has cyrname and master tommy tucker entered .
cyrname is reprtedly going to down royal with clan des o to see if he stays the 3 mile trip .  could be that he will be running over shorter this season depending on the down royal run . master tommy tucker is talented but been on the deck more times than horatio hornblower so has it to prove a big price tho which i have also taken .
selection king george chase .....real steel 33/1  1 point each way .
Pause Switch to Standard View 2020 king george chase kempton .
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Report buddeliea December 21, 2020 3:13 PM GMT
Just imagine the look on Nicholls face as Santini goes past his two after the lastLaugh
Report impossible123 December 21, 2020 3:15 PM GMT
Santini and Lost for a rfc.
Report sageform December 21, 2020 3:15 PM GMT
Perhaps he thinks his is the only yard allowed to send runners to Kempton. It could be bottomless though so anything can win.
Report duffy December 21, 2020 3:29 PM GMT
Monalee been given a map and told to swim overGrin
Report impossible123 December 21, 2020 3:34 PM GMT
We need Monalee. Just stick a sat nav between his ears then hitch a ride after the water to Kempton. I'm sure ground staff will do the rest.
Report penzance December 21, 2020 4:10 PM GMT
In all fairness probably put in here
because of the current situation.
Report harry callaghan December 21, 2020 8:01 PM GMT
Looks like Nicholls thinks clan has the edge on cyrname quite funny really
Report mr_sykes December 21, 2020 8:26 PM GMT
Nicholls talked up Politologue when Clan won the first year and talked up Cyrname last year,Id take what he says with a pinch of salt
Report sageform December 22, 2020 8:27 AM GMT
I think they are very closely matched and one shower of rain more or less could decide the outcome. The forecast suggests rain today and tomorrow but dry after that. The course is expecting 10mm more by Friday and that will make it close to soft.
Report GI MAC December 22, 2020 12:41 PM GMT
Barney Clifford clerk of the course at Kempton on Nick Lucks podcast today:

Has been mild, they have a lot of rain to come tomorrow (Wed), will ease the ground further, currently g/s, good in places. Ground will likely end up either g/s, soft in places   or   soft, g/s in places. Risk of a few showers on Boxing Day.

Says Bromhead booked on a ferry tomorrow (wed) has not yet been told if he can/cant travel, but plan is to come over still.
Report sageform December 22, 2020 2:08 PM GMT
Monalee and any other intended Irish runners won't run. No travel before January.
Report Mr Myxlplyx December 22, 2020 3:54 PM GMT
Not voiding Monalee is total disgrace.
Report sageform December 22, 2020 4:06 PM GMT
Why? Ante post includes any eventuality. If you don't like the rules back nrnb or wait until the overnight market opens.
Report saxon farm December 22, 2020 4:26 PM GMT
I agree sageform.
Being balloted out is the only contingency for voiding ante post.
Report penzance December 22, 2020 4:34 PM GMT
would these people moan if they backed the
winner after a horse box broke down carrying the
favourite on the way to the track and missed the race?
Report duffy December 22, 2020 4:53 PM GMT
Grey area for me this, the horse is an intended runner but is being prevented from running by reasons completely out of connections hands. This particular nuance isn't covered in the rules. On balance I think all bets on it should be void.
Report penzance December 22, 2020 4:58 PM GMT
I'm sure Kemboy missed a race over here,ferry
cancelled or the plane could'nt fly because
of the weather.He was an intended runner.
A/P all in run or not.
Report sageform December 22, 2020 5:04 PM GMT
Loads of examples of roads closed, snow, ferries cancelled due to high winds, infectious disease of horses. You will want ante post refunded if the horse loses a shoe on the way to the post next. Don't forget that by rewarding the loser you are robbing the layer. Betfair are not going to pay.
Report duffy December 22, 2020 5:08 PM GMT
Travel cancelled due to pandemic is hardly the same as a horse losing a shoe going to postLaugh
Report buddeliea December 22, 2020 5:37 PM GMT
Agree Duffy.

Some hard noses on here imo.
Report buddeliea December 22, 2020 5:39 PM GMT
Do people really want to make money by laying a horse that cant run because of a pandemic?
Must be desperate if they do.
Report FOYLESWAR December 22, 2020 7:28 PM GMT
Report sageform December 22, 2020 7:59 PM GMT
I really can't see any difference between one reason for not running and another. Monalee might have had a poor blood test, a runny nose or the weather might have stopped the ferry. Why is this different? I just don't get it. If the whole meeting is called off then all bets are off but that is because both backers and layers need to be cancelled out. Rewarding a backer is penalising a layer. It is a mirror image. It would also penalise all other backers if it resulted in a rule 4 type deduction.
Report impossible123 December 22, 2020 8:35 PM GMT
I do not think it's rewarding anyone, it's about being fair as the non-participation is outside the control of connection of the horse. It's solely Covid induced, not weather or logistic. Thus, I think it's only equitable if bets are voided for the horse concerned.
Report muse December 22, 2020 11:20 PM GMT
I have just re-watched the Charlie Hall.  And I am hock deep into Cyrname for the King George. But I am not sure I want to be.  Forget Vinndication who never jumped a twig; the only form anchor is Aye Right, who I love, but is effectively a handicapper whose mark is too high for a top class race over the Charlie Hall C and D. 

What it boils down to is that Cyrname has "in hand" whatever extra you think he might have found if asked.  Which is open to question.

But with no Monalee, and barring Waiting Patiently playing Lazarus, it is perhaps a straight fight between the market leaders. I tried hard to convince myself Santini is a runner, but I can't.

So it comes dowm to Cyrname and Clan Des.  And Clan keeps hitting a level 5lb above what Cyrnamr ran to at Wetherby.  But did Cyrname have 5lb more to give there?  And can he replicate that run at Kempton?

That heavy weight clash last year did Altior and Cyrname no good.  So I have to give Cyrname another chance.  Especially with Clan Des trying to beat Bristol De Mai at home the last day.

But in the end, I am quite a horses for courses man, and while Cyrname has a great Kempton record, there is nothing totally solid in the book away from Ascot.  I will stand by my scarily deep position, and maybe have a bollshut factor saver on WP, but I am not as confident as I was.

GL to all and have as good a Christmas as you can in these testing times
Report duffy December 23, 2020 4:16 AM GMT
I think that Cyrname will have to win it on the bridal, I just think he gives you all he's got with his easy run style through the race, he's a quick horse, in fact I'd like him to run in the Queen Mum and let him loose from the front.

I don't think he'll find much if brought under the cosh and doubt he's a thorough stayer. He was absolutely mullered by CDO in this last year and for any other horse you'd say he just did not stay the trip well enough against a top class rival but he's been given a free pass because of this theory that every man and his dog has signed up to that the Ascot race was a horse breaker.

I don't really buy that, Nicholl's had the horse hard fit and had another 5 weeks before the KG, surely a top class horse shouldn't leave his whole season behind from a single hard race, doesn't that happen all the time and aren't those at the top of the tree best equipped to deal with it?

He ran perfectly well in the KG last year and his jumping improved the further the race progressed he just ran out of petrol at the business end.

I also don't like the Wetherby race and how it looked and what it suggested to me about how connections think and perhaps their concerns. The horse cruised through the race and turning into the straight was going miles best, well...Send him on, put the rivals to the sword, let him open up and let's see him get home strongly. We didn't get that though, it looked for all money that they were at pains to nurse him home expending as little energy as possible and protecting him, it was as if they were a little worried what they might find out and they want to keep the dream alive to the KG, ultimately they beat a stone inferior rival a couple of lengths allbeit easily.

Nicholl's is desperate for Cyrname to win this, he'll think that this maybe the one that is out of the real top drawer and it's been a long time since Kauto, Denman and MM,  just don't think he'll get home.
Report sageform December 23, 2020 7:42 AM GMT
I tend to agree duffy on the evidence we have but I still think Cyrname will win unless it goes soft when Clan will outstay him again. What ever Nicky and others say, the Kempton straight on soft/heavy is desperately tiring ground. Just watch the Best Mate victory. They were walking from the second last. I wonder if Altior will run after he sees them struggling on Saturday?
Report muse December 23, 2020 2:09 PM GMT
You make a good case duffy.  I suppose people see the top class consistency of Cyrname and Altior interrupted after the Ascot race - some take the view that the King George and subsequent Ascot run were aberrations in an otherwise pretty flawless record- the otjer minor blip perhaps caused by too short a gap between races in spring 2018, and Altior notable to get back to the racecourse that season.

The theory may be off the mark, but it is easy to see how you come to that conclusion.

It maybe true that he basically needs to win on the bridle. If so, the ride at Wetherby may have been quite canny if he is a horse who puts it all in anyway, they may not want to be letting him bottom himself if he doesn't need to.

If the handicapper is right he may be able to win on the bridle. Who knows.  Certainly that home straight always seems longer in the King George than in any other race all year so he will need to genuinely stay. But based on the evidence of last uear and Wetherby, I am not ready to say I think he won't stay. 

Clqn Des Obeaux will stay, and it will take a top class performance to beat him in all likelihood.  I am really looking forward to it.
Report sixtwosix December 23, 2020 2:45 PM GMT

Clan Des Obeaux - The best 3 mile chaser by a country mile at this time . He doesn't get up the hill at Cheltenham(One Man , Pendil , Wayward Lad weren't too good at it either over 26 furlongs) and losing to BDM at Haydock in heavy is akin to losing to Beef Or Salmon in Ireland. Hat trick on it's way and what his former jockey will think then I have no idea.

Cyrname - Impressive last time ,but beat a stayer in Vindication , who there is no chance would ever run in a King George. I was all against him last year after hyped up win over under par rival and he will be found wanting again at this level.

Lostintranslation - Blows hot or cold and even on a going day is nothing like a good or quick enough jumper for this race.

Frodon - Poor run last time , hard to see him up to this.

Santini - Looks very hard work to me and being pushed and shoved and not able to beat a Grand National type in Lake View Lad is not good enough.

Real Steel- Wasn't campaigned over 3 miles until a good run in the Gold Cup. That races looks ordinary with the front six all close up. No Chance

Saint Calvados - Not a 3 mile horse so far . Last run , help up to chase Min was good. But most of these types do no actually want 3 miles

Waiting Patiently - Rarely seen now and looks like his opportunity has been and gone when BDM took him out 2 years ago.

Black Op - Second in the Kauto Star and unplaced in the Ladbroke , something has to finish third to the big two and it will come down to him or Santini

1 Clan Des Obeaux
2 Cyrname
3 Santini (or for a big price Black Op)
Report penzance December 23, 2020 2:48 PM GMT
Personally think the winner will come
from Clan Des Obeax or Lostintranslation.
CDO's record in the race goes without saying.
I still believe Lostintranslation is a top
class staying chaser and if the Tizzards can
get him back to the Haydock and Gold Cup form
from last year,providing the going doesn't turn
too testing he's the winner for me.
Let's hope all runners stand up and there's no
excuses.Cracker in prospect.
Report impossible123 December 23, 2020 2:56 PM GMT
1) CDO (race specialist)
2) Lost (better ground)
3) Santini/Waiting Patiently
Report duffy December 23, 2020 4:30 PM GMT
Fingers crossed we aren't all locked down and we actually get the race, this is all going the wrong way now ...and quickly, we will all be in a hard lock down within the week...all sport will go......just a toss up whether Boxing day sport survives.Sad
Report buddeliea December 23, 2020 5:15 PM GMT
Hopefully we still race Boxing Day.

Interesting race with the late entrant, and doubts over all of them!!

I would fancy Clan big time had he not had a hard race last time.

I aint betting on this one.
It will be a fascinating watch though.
Report impossible123 December 23, 2020 5:18 PM GMT
Doubts over all of them, even CDO? I think CDO is a good thing.
Report buddeliea December 23, 2020 5:29 PM GMT
I just explained that.
Report sixtwosix December 23, 2020 5:38 PM GMT
I would fancy Clan big time had he not had a hard race last time.

When did these top class chasers become so fragile that one hard race was a season finisher on earth did Kauto Star win the million pound bonus.

CDO will be spot on as he has been for the last 2 years , he like One Man , Pendil , Wayward Lad and others is the ideal horse for this race not the Gold Cup number 3 on it's way .....and to think somebody decided to ride another horse instead of him.
Report penzance December 23, 2020 5:54 PM GMT
been btn in both his runs prior to
his 2 wins.He will be spot on.
Report buddeliea December 23, 2020 5:56 PM GMT
Season finisher? Just simply saying he had a hard race last time.

You and others fancy him, fair enough. He might be spot on, i aint so sure.

I hope he wins having a couple of doubles from earlier in the season to win and ABP and Santini to win Gold Cup.
Report impossible123 December 23, 2020 5:58 PM GMT
^^Did some not say the same about Paisley Park prior to his beating of Thyme Hill last saturday? Horses for courses eg Bristol De Mai (Haydock); Cyrname beat a Michelin Man-looking Altior at Ascot.
Report buddeliea December 23, 2020 6:02 PM GMT
Last year he had an extra couple of weeks before Kempton.
Year before he ran on much better ground at Haydock than he did this year.

I aint saying he wont win, just that their are doubts.
Report penzance December 23, 2020 6:12 PM GMT
like everyone else,your entitled
to say what you think.Be boring
Report sixtwosix December 23, 2020 6:14 PM GMT
For me this has always been the race I look forward to more than the Gold Cup ....too often won by average beasts with endless stamina Lord Windermere , Cool Ground , Cool Dawn , Synchronised
Report sixtwosix December 23, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
Doesn't look the greatest renewnal , but 9 runners .....and it is on
Report unclepuncle December 24, 2020 4:34 PM GMT
Was pleasantly surprised to see that Unibet had voided my bet at 20/1 on Monalee, especially as I had laid it off on here at 10/1. Free money is always nice - sorry to piss on your chips Harry you loser.
Report sageform December 24, 2020 7:09 PM GMT
nice one uncle.
Report harry callaghan December 24, 2020 7:09 PM GMT
Some beautiful aftertiming repeat offending going on here again with you’re monalee lay punkle, no doubt you’ll be on after the race about laying off you’re clan des obeux bet...lovely stuff
Report harry callaghan December 24, 2020 7:14 PM GMT
harry callaghan 21 Dec 20 15:25 Joined: 10 Nov 07 | Topic/replies: 5,434 | Blogger: harry callaghan's blog
Decent ground should be in the offing at Kempton ahead of the King George VI Chase where conditions are described as good to soft, good in places with only a slight easing expected before Boxing Day.

Sporadic rainfall over the next few days could see the ground change to good to soft, soft in places, but the forecast becomes more settled later in the week ahead of Saturday's card, which also features the Christmas Hurdle and the Kauto Star Novices' Chase.

This was written on the racing post punkle not by me just for you’re information, while you’re slagging me off on here, you rat
Report duffy December 24, 2020 7:57 PM GMT

Report harry callaghan December 24, 2020 8:42 PM GMT
Report harry callaghan December 24, 2020 9:58 PM GMT
The dynamic of this race has totally changed in regards a betting medium here...we have gone from cyrname, clan, lost, real steel and Frodon which was easy for me to fathom personally, to an ultra competitive betting heat imo with many with many with chances for different reasons, with lurkers now in waiting, black op, saint calvados and santini...much to ponder happy Christmas it isn’t going to be easy...I’m already nailed and not an arber but the race stinks now from a betting point of view...not sure we will get the soft predicted, we will see I suppose hope not...I’m against clan and santini myself but can see why people would want to back them in an open betting heat now
Report harry callaghan December 25, 2020 12:21 AM GMT
Report sageform December 26, 2020 8:52 AM GMT
Kempton looks like soft side of good today and much softer tomorrow if the storm arrives on time. Chepstow will be very testing. So the big day has arrived at last. I am going for Cyrname to win and Saint Calvados a place.
Report nocturnal December 26, 2020 10:10 AM GMT
The boxing day highlight has arrived,can it live up to the billing ?

Any number of angles,fairly open market compared to some years.

In terms of horse stands out for me,but he does come here with questions to answer.

Frodon ...... A horse that has done me a few times in recent seasons.

Trading 8th of the nine at current prices,does that reflect his true chance ?

Through gritted teeth,I thought his comeback at Chelt was quite superb.

His jumping was electric,travelled really well,and saw it out to the line.

Back in 3rd getting the best part of 2 stone was Cloth Cap,he has done that form no harm at newbury.

Aintree was woeful on the face of it,despite the lack of jumping he folded tamely at the business end.

Native took him on that day,did he sulk a little,whichever way he looked a different horse.

1/13 in graded races,suggests he will be outclassed,I,m not convinced just yet.

Since the wind surgery in summer of 2018,does his pofile suggest he now wants this kind of test?

Will he be allowed to set his own fractions in a field of this quality,remains the question.

The market suggests no at present,we may get a few clues later re the ground and the market vibes.

Just like to see him run his race,everything in a racehorse you would want to see.

Around 30 for the win,and 5.5 for the place,had a little in both markets for an interest.

Looks a decent renewal,best of luck if your playing.
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 10:46 AM GMT
Well i did say no bet for me, as i have doubts about them all.
Have changed my mind, i still have doubts but at the prices have decided to take a chance on ST Calvados.
Big doubt on the distance but worth a small wager to find out if he can stay 3m well enough.
Report impossible123 December 26, 2020 10:52 AM GMT
I'm a follower of NH racing however, only realised Kauto Star won it 5x. But, his opponents were pants; odds-on 4x reflected that.
Report FELTFAIR December 26, 2020 12:40 PM GMT
Was going to back the Nicholl`s front two at around 4/5 but ended up backing Santini at 8.6 and trading at 6.6. Free win bet and will take some 11/10 ish x3 places.
Report penzance December 26, 2020 1:27 PM GMT
don't normally do these,but done
Lostintranslation to do the double
Report impossible123 December 26, 2020 1:35 PM GMT
If CDO does not do a 3rd-timer I'd like to Lost to win it for connections. The horse deserves it too on last season's Betfair victory.
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 1:43 PM GMT
Whose that with ?
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 1:43 PM GMT
Whose that with ?
Report penzance December 26, 2020 1:51 PM GMT
the Stoke outfit.
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 2:09 PM GMT
Still available mate? cant find it
Report penzance December 26, 2020 2:20 PM GMT
go A/P racing ,then specials 40s still
there by the looks of it.
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 2:22 PM GMT
Yep, found it.
Thanks Penzance and apologies for disturbing your racing.
Good luck
Report penzance December 26, 2020 2:33 PM GMT
no problem.
Report harry callaghan December 26, 2020 3:11 PM GMT
Oh well I got it wrong he’s vanquished the horse, well done on the lay Penzance and others that may have landed on the winner

I don’t understand Cobdens thinking in not letting a horse like that stride out. I was worried about it when I heard him talking like he was and in the end it bore out he was very disappointing and now is a vanquished horse that I’ve got wrong

Well done winners
Report duffy December 26, 2020 3:16 PM GMT
Still love to see him in the Queen Mum...loose on the lead, it would be fascinating to see I think.
Report giggitygiggity December 26, 2020 3:17 PM GMT
wd Nocturnal and anyone else who backed it. Disappointing runs for the backers of the big gunsPlain
Report penzance December 26, 2020 3:23 PM GMT
GL 2021.
Report Autocue December 26, 2020 3:28 PM GMT
Well done nocturnal and Bryony. She was wearing the trousers there. De Boinville should be shot for allowing her the easiest of leads though Nicky was probably using the race as a prep for Cheltenham.
Report buddeliea December 26, 2020 3:33 PM GMT
Yep, and a good prep imo.
Report penzance December 26, 2020 3:34 PM GMT
Report sixtwosix December 26, 2020 3:40 PM GMT
Frodon , Magnificent ride , looked behind about four out and must  have been delighted to see how many were struggling . What on earth happened at Aintree apart from the missing fences.

Waiting Patiently , looked booked for fourth at best 3 out and then turbo finish.

CDO ,seemed to be breasting the fences , but battled on to the line.

Saint Calvados , huge run ,stamina was always going to be an issue at the end.

Santini , looked like what he is a stayer ,followed the leader outpaced and then staying on again .....will go close again in March.

BLack Op - respectable run in 6th.

Lostintranslation  looks a lost cause

Cyrname went from hacking up ,got one fence wrong and game over , we will have to see if there is an issue.
Report Autocue December 26, 2020 3:46 PM GMT
The King George result is usually reliable but that was an unsatisfactory race for me. Two and a half seconds slower than Shan Blue’s effort (he carried 3lb less).
Report impossible123 December 26, 2020 4:21 PM GMT
Bryony and Frodon were well-deserved winners. I wonder what connections of Monalee think of the race. One that got away?
Report FOYLESWAR December 26, 2020 4:53 PM GMT
vwd noc and good luck
Report Trendy December 26, 2020 6:51 PM GMT
Good write up and good call nocturnal.
Report harry callaghan December 26, 2020 7:46 PM GMT
Yeah well done noc much deserved...nice to see you in good form and getting some justice
Report saxon farm December 26, 2020 8:27 PM GMT
Well done Frodon and connections.
Can’t help feeling Kim Bailey has missed a trick not involving Imperai Aura and or Vinndication.  I hope they are healthy.
Report nocturnal December 26, 2020 9:04 PM GMT
Thanks everyone,really appreciated.
Report mr_sykes December 27, 2020 12:46 AM GMT
well done frodon backers
Report sageform December 27, 2020 3:56 PM GMT
My take on Santini is that he beat one home, Black Op. I have never rated him and never will. Midland National off 150 perhaps?
Report Autocue December 28, 2020 6:52 PM GMT
Santini is a stayer and the 2020 KG was not one in which stayers excelled. Waiting Patiently had no form beyond 2 miles 5 furlongs but he sprinted home. There was one good ride in that race by Bryony.
Report buddeliea December 29, 2020 7:58 AM GMT
Sage no fan of him nearly winning the Gold Cup.
Report sageform December 29, 2020 1:33 PM GMT
Lostintranslation has not been sighted since.
Report duffy December 29, 2020 6:43 PM GMT
I'm not a fan of Santini per se but as far as his Gold cup chances go, they are much the same as they were before the KG with nothing lost in his defeat.

We knew before the race that he'd be outpaced at some point and that is what happened, in fact the race actually panned out worse than his fans could actually have feared and he probably comes out with a little more credit due to it.

Bryony stacked them up from the word go and the fact that Santini "the boat" was the one racing comfortably in second just highlights the steady nature through a large part of the race.

He made a mistake at a crucial point as the pace quickened but responded, but ultimately his lack of toe saw him beat but he did stay on again late.

The usual GC test will see him in a much better light, he's proven that, but I will only back him if they change the headgear, because he is a rogue, he's proven that, but it means he has yet untapped potential, if they can unlock that then he'd be very interesting for me.
Report nocturnal December 30, 2020 1:40 PM GMT
Interesting analysis Duffy,always welcomed,I see him slightly differently.

That "slowboat" tag will be churned out repeatedly before March.

A horse that could lie up with the pace in a GC and KG is touted as slow ?

Three times he has run with "Good" in the going description,beaten in all three races.

Everything about him tells me he wants genuine soft,or worse ground.

He surprised me in the GC,given a woeful ride in my opinion,he should have won.

Where would I have him if it came up soft in March,very close to heading the market.

IF he does need specific conditions,his run last year in the GC could be seen as remarkable.

Never backed or laid the horse,so very neutral on him,he remains a puzzle.

As for Frodon,we will see the same media driven drivel between now and March.

People will point to the fact WP was gaining on him at Kempton towards the line.

The problem with that,they ran very diffent races,I think the winner had more in the locker.

That 2m 4f battler of old is gone,does he still have untapped potential in the staying division ?

Mr-Sykes summed it up beautifully on page 8,in one sentence.

The last two runnings of this have been less than satisfactory,shocking if I,m being honest.

Some of what we have seen needs questioning,I will leave it at that.

This is top level graded racing,cherished by true fans for what it should truly represent.
Report impossible123 December 30, 2020 2:38 PM GMT
If we'd listened to trainers and esp "professional" pundits/tipsters almost every one of us would be in the poor house the next day; the "professional" pundits/tipster are usually feathering their own nests or that of their employers ie the bookies.

The last two King Georges were substandard, and CDO would have won given a more positive ride instead of trying to "manage" his main protagonist and hyped stablemate runner ie Cyrname. Will these "professional" pundits and tipsters finally admit the victory of Cyrname over Altior was "over-rated" unjustifiably for obvious reasons? Or will they still subscribe to the fodder/excuses trawled out by his trainer in fear of the possible repercussion professionally?
Report duffy December 30, 2020 4:38 PM GMT
CDO jumped as if it were the first time he'd seen a fence for most of the race, he did well to finish as close as he did, but from very early on he was the first one beat.
Report sageform December 30, 2020 4:38 PM GMT
Both Cyrname and Altior were affected by the Ascot race and probably won't ever get close to those ratings but does that automatically mean they were overrated on the day? Solomon Grey was their sole opponent and he was never going to finish better than third but he has run to a higher rating since.
Report impossible123 December 30, 2020 9:28 PM GMT
There I was thinking Cyrname redeemed himself at Wetherby beating 3rd raters, according to the "professional" pundits and tipsters; Nicholls has form with Conti and CDO repeatedly running them in the Gold Cup. He even ran the former in the Grand National or one of the trials, I believe.

Can anyone remember Sir Cecil or Sir Stoute doing that with any of their talented charges? I do not.
Report sageform December 31, 2020 9:55 AM GMT
They have both won since that showdown but have then been beaten badly. Classic sign of a horse losing its enthusiasm imo. Many years ago I had a share in a pretty good horse called Meister who had won 5 races. After a summer break, he came back with top weight in a handicap and just got home again but he never really tried again after that effort. They get to a limit and most then decline, only a special few keep coming back. Lostintranslation didn't even show interest first time up but the yard have been in awful form.
Report impossible123 December 31, 2020 11:10 AM GMT
I think (hope I'm wrong) Lostintranslation has gone the same way as Might Bite. The former could have run up to his potential in the Gold Cup last season. So far way below. A change of stable or discipline perhaps eg Yorkhill.
Report penzance December 31, 2020 3:42 PM GMT
Lostintranslation bled in the King George.
Report sageform January 1, 2021 2:04 PM GMT
So he probably did at Haydock and probably will again. I was a big fan but can't back him again at least until the other stable stars run to their best.
Report impossible123 January 1, 2021 2:59 PM GMT
Might Bite, Native River, Altior, Cyrname and Lostintranslation - a select quality field - all seem to have lost their way after a gruelling contest; trainer or jockey to blame?
Report Autocue January 2, 2021 4:40 PM GMT
Neither I would say. Might Bite and Native River probably bottomed each other in their classic duel but connections surely wouldn’t have wanted either to back out. Perhaps, generally speaking, the breed is not as tough as it used to be? Altior coming second and finishing best at the weights in a Grade 2 hardly indicates he’s lost his way and I’d still back him against Chacun Pour Soi in the QM.
Report impossible123 January 3, 2021 11:12 AM GMT
I'd blame the trainers for Altior and Cyrname eg too gungho for running (former), and indecision of tactic (latter).

I'd too give Altior another chance as long as the ground is not testing against Chacun Pour Soi; more hopeful if Ryanair. The others not for me until rejuvenation is evidently clear.
Report sageform January 3, 2021 2:40 PM GMT
I would not rule Native River out of anything once the yard get back to form. Denman chase looks ideal again.
Report Autocue January 3, 2021 4:09 PM GMT
It’s a shame the performances of Might Bite have deteriorated so much. He didn’t really fulfil his potential after what was a scintillating demolition job in the Sun Alliance chase before his shenanigans at the end.
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