timed at 945pm last night

Great to see her create a bit more history with 3KG wins.
Shame about the turnout, but with this crazy yr it was always odds on there wouldn't be a 3yo in the field??
Japan has run way below his best, but to be honest it wouldn't have mattered, she's better than him.
It sounds like York is the plan again (oaks) all being well. Be Very interesting if Love lines up as well, she'll be a tough nut to crack getting WFA ??

another one we hear a lot about is the 3lb sex allowance which we're led to believe gives 3yo filles a huge advantage in the Arc but then noone explains why we recently went 25 years without one winning.

Figgis I get your point about 50 mares being better than Enable but to put the boot on the other foot would Allez France, Ivanjica, Three Troikas, All Along, Urban Sea, Zarkava, Danedream, Treve and Found been beaten by Waldgeist? And do you think any of them would have failed to beat Sea of Class and Cloth of Stars? And that is just the Arc winners. What about Crystal Ocean or Sovereign?

I don't know it is just guessing but on known form I think Enable is a bit short on what she has beaten but she is a tonic in an otherwise pretty barren landscape.

Allez France, Ivanjica, Three Troikas, All Along, Urban Sea,

All before the period I'm talking about, which as I've said previously I won't get into a pointless debate over.

Urban Sea

Sorry brig, I know she was an Arc winner but I can't take that one's best form as a serious comparison.

In my view, Zarkava never ran as fast as Enable as a 3yo, as she was good, but not that good. She kept beating her own sex until winning a weak Arc. Most of her previous races were against her own age group and she never faced a decent older filly. I had Goldikova showing improved form when dropped back to a mile after the Diane defeat, which made Zarkava's previous form against her look better than it was. We never got to see her as a 4yo for any comparison there. People can say Zarkava had more in hand, etc, and they're entitled to that opinion. However, the argument is about what was actually produced on the track.

Danedream was very impressive when winning her Arc. There is no doubt that the main opposition ran well below par and the recorded final time is more than questionable. Nevertheless, I rated it equal to anything Enable did as a 3yo. Her 4yo form wasn't quite as good, but as her season was curtailed we don't know what she may have shown later. Treve was also impressive in her first Arc but for me it still wasn't quite as good as Treve's performance. I backed Found, as you know, but she never really showed top notch form until the Irish Champion Stakes (just a shame Almanzor got injured, as I believe he was underrated), which was why I backed her in the Arc. After the Arc she was done.

As to Waldgeist, he was obviously no superstar before the Arc, but he had run some very good races. For me, clearly his best effort prior to that was the King George, so it can be said he was better than ever at the age of 5 and arguably still improving. Gosden has recently said he thinks horses are at their peak at 5. I have always thought the same. Not that all horses are going to keep improving until the age of 5 but the potential is definitely there. Also the circumstances were just right for Waldgeist to run the race of his life. The ground was soft and he was held up well off the fast early pace. I'm not sure that he would've ever been able to repeat that again but on the day it was a top class performance.

I don't believe he would've beaten Danedream but I think he could've beaten those others mentioned if facing the exact same circumstances. On the day though I had Enable 5lbs below her best, so if at her best she'd have beaten him. I have already said that as a 4yo I wasn't as impressed with Enable. The performance when beating Sea Of Class was no better than judging her 3yo efforts while deducting her allowance. I do think she got lucky as a 4yo. Lucky that it was a weak Arc and lucky that Sea Of Class had a troubled trip. To be fair though, Gosden did say even at the time that he never really had her at peak that year after her injury.

Anyway, my post wasn't about which filly should be classed as the all time best on their overall career. I just said that, in my view, Enable put up the fastest Oaks winning performance in the period since, and including, 1985. And she also put up the fastest 12f performance I've seen from an older mare during the same period.

Figgis I get your point about 50 mares being better than Enable but to put the boot on the other foot would Allez France, Ivanjica, Three Troikas, All Along, Urban Sea, Zarkava, Danedream, Treve and Found been beaten by Waldgeist?

On that particular day quite possibly all of them - apart from Zarkava they all experienced numerous defeats in their careers. But of course it's typical of you to want to judge a modern horse solely on it's worst performance - whereas your favourites from the past get a pass on all their losses.

I asked a question AT I never made a statement. I knew Figgis would have an opinion and I haven't the time at the moment to do any research. Perhaps they were just a list of your moderate horses. Who knows?

"Apart from Love, the 3yr olds have underperformed...."

Mis-campaigned or badly ridden in key races eg Pinatubo and Kameko respectively. Let's hope Palace Pier is above average good.