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King George 26th December 2016
King George 26th December 2016
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Can only see about 4 likely runners. I expect connections of Conti will take their chance to try and pick up the place money.
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Pricewise has to put a selection up for this on Thursday - options limited, looks almost certain that he'll have to go for one of the Gigginstown horses as they'll have to split them up between this and the Lexus. He'll have the advantage of a modicum of insight into the running plans when he tips - to me the most plausible ones are Sub Lieutentant and Road To Riches (who'd likely get better ground at Kempton than Leopardstown).They've already said Valseur Lido is more likely to run in the Lexus.
He likes Camping Ground too but that would be a massive leap of faith and soft ground. |
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He surely picks Tea for Two 20/1 won Kauto Star last year 3/3 at Kempton.
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fair point, looking at it again can see plausible reasons for him not firing on his last two runs - would need to step up a lot though.
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If Pricewise put up Road To Riches, Sub Lieutenant and/or Camping Ground for this race they'd need certification for losing their marbles - these are the slowest of the slow boats!
Apart from Thistlecrack (only if CC is absent) Vroum Vroum Mag could be the only fly in the ointment; Valseur Lido like Coneygree would bypass this race and more likely Lexus bound (easier option), the same with Djakadam. |
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Racing news on the atr channel this morning sighted that Thistlecrack may take on CC in the KG or least the owners were thinking about that. Then there be the big problem come fez where i can see only one outcome personally if CC wins KG, Thistle rsa CC gold cup. But that is irrelevant for this thread, after that news i seen a spike on graph and thistle done at 2 on here yes 2, think all the money was took all the way to 2! Back to 9.8 now but only yesterday was 14s!
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Backing Thistlecrack at anything less than 9 here is lunacy as others are offering 8/1 (10/1 yesterday).
I think it is a non-starter as Thistlecrack could do with as much jumping practice as possible, if available. Also, it is so unnecessary at this stage to be taking on Cue Card and other seasoned chasers given the Blue Riband race in next March. |
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impossible123
27 Nov 16 15:49 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 2,541 | Blogger: impossible123's blog If Pricewise put up Road To Riches, Sub Lieutenant and/or Camping Ground for this race they'd need certification for losing their marbles - these are the slowest of the slow boats! these horses may not be good enough to win this race but yet another nonsense statement 123 to call these horses the slowest of the slow boats... i've never heard as much nonsense as continues to flow from you road to riches is a triple grade 1 winner who has won a galway plate and placed in a gold cup sub lieutenant wouldn't be as good as the above horse but has just won a grade 2 over 2m 3f and is progressive camping ground is not as good as the top horse but beat lil rockerfella 11l in the relkeel last year and is not a slow horse you continue to write drivel on here |
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Impossible123
How's about a speculative punt at 14/1 approx a month ago courtesy of the sportsbook   I knew then that the Feltham is the most likely route but it was far too big even then and considering there was a couple quid asking to back him at 9.2 on the exchange too. My main bet is CC at 6/1 courtesy of 365.I can't see how there can be more than 7 runners this year, unless a few plodders stay in in the hope of some prize money. I can see an odds on CC though if that was to happen, maybe that is why the owners were thinking about it? But if Thistlecrack goes faltham, Thistlecrack runs in the RSA IF CC wins the KG!! Though i have a niggling feeling Thistles owners want to know where they are as regards to the blue riband in March and will be eager to find out by pitching him in at the deep end in the KG if you can call a race with an 11 year old possibly odds on fav (or at least short priced fav if thistle runs) After all you can only do so much at home. |
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harry callaghan,
With due respect you are entitled to your opinions and I to mine. And I was merely giving my opinions on another poster's Pricewise possible / plausible suggestions of Road To Riches, Sub Lieutenant and Camping ground for this race. Pricewise is a tipster and also has a huge following which could 'manage' the betting betting. If that is the best Pricewise could come up with all I'd like to say is his followers would do better not to bet in the race! Road To Riches: He's had his days, could not win a Gold Cup after 2 attempts and failed in the Ryanair last year plus several Grade 1/2 chasers in Ireland since; at best this year will be competing in the Ryanair again. Sub Lieutenant: He's only managed to beat a horse rated 143, and now rated 153, possibly Ryanair / 4m Chase if Valseur Lido is Gold Cup bound. Camping Ground: A good horse over hurdles but up to 20f, and his claim to fame was his victory in the Relkeel, rated at 154 but clearly did not stay further; could not even beat Jossies Hill, a one time dodgy jumper over fences. A miracle to be in the frame (unless 3 runners) let alone win! This is the King George thread, and if you disagree with my description 'slowest of the slow boats' for these 3 horses may I suggest you can have these 3 selections against just one of mine (Cue Card) at evens, the winner gets £20 donated to a charity of his / her choice ie put your money where your mouth is to back up your opinions. If this is a handicap race with loads of runners eg Laddies Hurdle, Grand National, etc, I could understand but a Grade 1 King George, Pricewise must be taking the 'mickey', to say the least. |
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SEATHESTARS,
Well done with CC at 6/1 for this race and Thistle at 14/ for the Feltham. Sometimes, they really is value to be had from bookies eg Capri, 20/1 for the Derby (one time only 8/1). Post Newbury I think it is very unlikely Thistlecrack would be RSA bound whether CC win this race or not. However, I do agree CC could start odds-on without the Irish horses eg VL, Douvan and in the absence of Thistlecrack; I think Thistlecrack will go for the Feltham (2/7 now) and then the Gold Cup, if sound. |
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impossible123
28 Nov 16 20:58 Joined: 07 Sep 15 | Topic/replies: 2,544 | Blogger: impossible123's blog harry callaghan, With due respect you are entitled to your opinions and I to mine. And I was merely giving my opinions on another poster's Pricewise possible / plausible suggestions of Road To Riches, Sub Lieutenant and Camping ground for this race. Pricewise is a tipster and also has a huge following which could 'manage' the betting betting. If that is the best Pricewise could come up with all I'd like to say is his followers would do better not to bet in the race! Road To Riches: He's had his days, could not win a Gold Cup after 2 attempts and failed in the Ryanair last year plus several Grade 1/2 chasers in Ireland since; at best this year will be competing in the Ryanair again. slow boat yet you think he should run in ryannair interesting  Sub Lieutenant: He's only managed to beat a horse rated 143, and now rated 153, possibly Ryanair / 4m Chase if Valseur Lido is Gold Cup bound. the 4 mile chase is for novices...when will you stop this non sense and once again followed in by the ryannair yet the horse is a slow boatCamping Ground: A good horse over hurdles but up to 20f, and his claim to fame was his victory in the Relkeel, rated at 154 but clearly did not stay further; could not even beat Jossies Hill, a one time dodgy jumper over fences. A miracle to be in the frame (unless 3 runners) let alone win! once again you have already said he is a slow boat so why the speed test in ryannair This is the King George thread, and if you disagree with my description 'slowest of the slow boats' for these 3 horses may I suggest you can have these 3 selections against just one of mine (Cue Card) at evens, the winner gets £20 donated to a charity of his / her choice ie put your money where your mouth is to back up your opinions. have no wish to bet with you as don't even fancy these horses, just disagree with your rash statements in regards them being slow boats, when none of them are short of speed these constant posts with no thought, just whatever comes in your head at that time, just annoy me tbh... also i have no wish to take even money about a horse who is way to short for the race just for the record, i haven't got an opinion on the race yet, as don't know who is actually running pricewise is just trying to find value and why not when you have a horse who is way to short, good luck to him |
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In fairness, imp you think VVM is 'could be the only fly in the ointment'.
This is a mare who has not been sighted on a racecourse since the end of April, has not run in a 'chase since November 2015 and has never run in a chase outside of her own sex - and she's as laughably short as 7/1 with one high street bookmaker, where's the value there? As somebody else pointed out recently, the ratings are just somebody else's opinion. Road to Riches who has 'had his days' is only a year older than Thistlecrack and a year younger than Cue Card. As Harry states, Sub Lieutenant is clearly progressive, has won 3 of his last 5, reversed the form of his Punchestown defeat by Outlander last time and looked like a non stayer when pulled up in the Irish National (he's probably not slow enough for that!). Camping Ground was more idle speculation than a serious suggestion though he is starting to look like a non runner here to me - if he is sound though then I reckon there is a decent 'chase win in him on soft ground this winter. Anyway, Jasey probably has the right answer in Tea For Two who I note is entered in the Peterborough Chase on Sunday, which would be a decent prep opportunity. I was really highlighting the lack of options for Pricewise - he'll probably have to tip something at a big price each way that's a likely runner in the expectation that the field will cut up. |
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...and same as harry, I don't have an opinion personally on the race yet - but I don't have to tip one, unlike Pricewise.
The previews are usually worth reading for the trainer quotes plus the fact that he won't just bang on about the Tizzard and Mullins horses. |
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harry callaghan
This is a King George thread hence, whatever runs here will be judged accordingly ie King George standard, and not some run-of-the-mill races; if some of the big boys do not show up eg CC and Coneygree, then it could be deemed as a sub-standard King George, and rightly so. The 'slowest of the slow boats' is just an expression and the 3 horses in question are slow boats to me in comparison to the others entered in the race. And why are you so anti opinion on this race if you do not have an opinion yourself? This is a thread ie a platform for sharing and exchanging ideas and opinions. If it irks you so intensely use the filter facility; I'd rather read an opinion than faced with none. Road To Riches: is not good enough for the Cheltenham and Irish Gold Cup so apart from the Ryanair where else could he go, a handicap race? And with his owner being the sponsor is there a more suitable race than the Ryanair? Sub Lieutenant: progressive? But progressive is relative and open to interpretation. He beat Outlander who has consistently failed to deliver last season, but King George standard? I'd be absolutely astounded, if so. Camping Ground: connections were so mesmerized by his Relkeel win that a tilt at the Champion Hurdle - what a bizarre decision? Cue Card at 6/4 might not be value to you but he was 6/1 when this market opened and 5/2 immediately after the Betfair Chase. But come King George day if Thistlecrack and Douvan both available at 8/1 and 10/1 respectively do not show up 6/4 or even money is value to me (anyway). ReaselHeath, Yes, VVM could be the only fly in the ointment if Douvan and Valseur Lido do not turn up, why? She's definitely progressive and her potential yet to be defined. And at 27 here at the outset (about 13 now) could be value, trade or otherwise, only doubt is will she be ready even though she's entered in two races at Fairyhouse this weekend? |
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I'd say a much bigger doubt is whether she's actually going to run in this.
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I123 - presumably you feel these 'slow-boats' have as much chance as Found did of winning an Arc.
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unclepuncle,
Very funny, I was just wondering when you'd turn up to remind me of that! Is it not a case of frequency of victories and winning sp the main determinants of a profitable outcome on a selection over a period of time? As for Found everything went right for her in the Arc - even her regular jockey got it RIGHT! But she immediately started another losing sequence courtesy of same jockey again. Did you see the victory of Highland Reel especially the 'cunning' ride by his jockey in the BC Turf? That was truly sensational,........and where was the dumb-bell jockey of Found? At the back.....waiting, that is what he does best in the big races!!!!! ReaselHeath, We could get a clue post the weekend as VVM has been entered for two races in Ireland. |
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I'm an infrequent contributor, but an avid reader. But I have to agree with Harry here, Imp's incessant stream-of-consciousness style of posting, much of it uninformed, is making reading this stuff increasingly difficult. However, even the guff he comes out with, is as nought on the irritant scale compared to his random use of apostropes (hair pulling out emoticon required). I gave up on the 'Arc' (arrrrgggghhhhh) thread, because I couldn't bear it any longer.
That's better. As you were. |
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Got to about the 2nd paragraph on each persons posts here and gave up, first sentence on imp123's
 I didn't say i had 14s thistle for the feltham i have 14s thistle for the KG and 6s CC. I placed both bets relatively same time as each other knowing at that stage Thistle is 14/1 cos he is more likely to rock up in the novice race but if anything was to happen to CC then there is a good chance so a bit of insurance really. I'd be pretty amazed no one else thought that same way and did same thing seeing as one which was 100% cert to run in it was taking 17% of the book and another which still is, depending how you look at it taking out only 7%, i thought crazy bookmaking even at that early stage - Don't get me started on the markets for the festival, i can't ever remember such stingeness |
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Moore dominates rivals to win Best Jockey award
RYAN MOORE has been crowned 2016 Longines World's Best Jockey for the second time in three years after winning eight of the top 100 highest-rated Group and Grade 1 races worldwide, as established by the Longines Rankings Committee.( 3 hours ago)More Some "dumb- bell" |
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tom segal put up thistlecrack at 8/1 l. 7/1 bf,375.bo.
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"Dumb-bell" would have been given a different accolade if the racegoers/punters here were given their voice/right to vote on the rides he gave to US Army Ranger (Derby), The Gurkha (St James' Palace), Seventh Heaven (Fillies and Mares), Order of St George (Irish St Leger/Qipco Ascot), Found (Breeders Cup), and many others the season's just gone.
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As well as the potential stumbling block of Thistlecrack another thing that may be a problewm for those who think Cue Card is a certainty is the going.
Been very dry for a couple of weeks and the long range forecast suggests a similar pattern for the next fortnight. Given Cue Card seems to relish heavy going these days could good ground be a potential banana skin? |
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It's a good point - I also agree with Segal that Cue Card is better LH - all his form backs that up anyway. The problem in opposing him at this stage for me is that he is literally the only leading contender committed to running in the race (at least that we know about) - so it's a waiting game for me.
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Im not sure he is significantly better on soft going myself. He was cantering in the GC and supremely impressive at Aintree both on decent ground. I think he goes on all going much the same myself.
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Placed Description Odds Stake (£) Pot. Return (£) Status
26-Oct-16 11:20:17 King George VI Chase 2016 Thistlecrack - Each Way EW Terms: 1/4 Odds | 3 Places Betfair Bet ID O/0233312/0000093 15 On at 14s and now segal has put him up  |
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Or should a more accurate emoji be
or  Oh and by the way i wont cry if he don't go after all i new at time i placed bet he could only be 50/50 as did CC at 6s also |
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Thistlecrack could be backed at 15/8 with a run now; Douvan is still 10/1 with Paddies with Coneygree at 11/2 (no change). Just three weekend to this race.
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and Vroum Vroum Mag an even less likely runner than this time last week...
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It is unlikely VVM will run here or the Champion Hurdle. But I think she will run over fences next; I hope connections might aim her for the Ryanair or Gold Cup eventually.
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Thistlecrack and Cue Card are 3/1 and 6/1 for the Gold Cup respectively; the former is 15/8 (with a run) here and the latter at 6/4 to win. The question is will his price be shorter than 15/8 on the day of the race? Logically yes, if so, 15/8 (with a run) is value, no?
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Unless Cue Card is a non runner I'd expect Thistlecrack to be at least 2/1 on the morning of the race, and Cue Card will probably be bigger than he is now as well.
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Are you implying if both Cue Card and Thistlecrack run and assuming the former is 7/4 and the latter 9/4 how could that be possible if Ar Mad does not run which, according to Moore, would be the case ie Ar Mad will not be supplemented if Thistlecrack runs? Logically, Thistlecrack is more likely to be shorter than Cue Card using the Gold Cup betting as a guide, would you not agree?
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impossible123 07 Dec 16 09:29
Logically, Thistlecrack is more likely to be shorter than Cue Card using the Gold Cup betting as a guide, would you not agree? No they are two seperate entities. Cue Card is proven at 3m round Kempton, but he has yet to prove he stays the Gold Cup trip at Cheltenham - hence he is much shorter for the KG than the GC. Obviously if these are the only two worthwhile entries the prices will be much shorter but I'm assuming there will be some half decent opposition and 6-8 runners. Thistlecrack is too short for both races really given his limited chase CV, but clearly he has greater potential based on his age and hurdling form. He is the sexy option if you like. Personally at the current prices I wouldn't back either unless the prospect of having a slightly bigger price than on the day is so important to you. |
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I'm already on Cue Card at 5/2 and 2/1 similarly Thistlecrack (saver) at 10/1; Thistlecrack, I agree, is too short for both events but I would not say Cue Card is not proven over the extra 2.5f at Cheltehnam - he looked to be going sweetly when he tipped over 2 out at Cheltenham last season.
Ar Mad could be an interesting addition (only runs if Thistlecrack is absent) but an extra mile is a severe concern the way he ran in the Tingle Creek; Valseur Lido (opens to most improvement, I fear) but unlikely to turn up, according to owner, and he is the fav for the Lexus in Ireland; Coneygree, I cannot have, and he again more likely to be Lexus bound as well, the same could be said for Douvan and Vroum Vroum Mag. The rest just do not come into my calculation. |
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If anyone is interested Colin Tizzard is 5/4 to win this race with the sponsor, the same for any other trainer.
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Just to let you know Ryan Moore got his world`s best jockey award in Japan this evening.
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Yes, I'm sure Moore got it for his rides at Ascot and Epsom predominantly; I've yet to know a senior seasoned jokey ever performed so below par consistently in big and prestigious races.
I'd donate £500 to a charity of your choice if ordinary punters voted the same here for Moore. Hugely over-rated and undeserved that's all I say. |
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Hear Hear,Moore the most overrated obnoxious knob wearing the silks at the moment..The media pandering truly embarrassing..Some of his rides this year list as some of the worst ive ever seen at the top level of flat racing..25 yrs been punting!
Worlds best jockey my arse. Like giving the bold Jose coach of the year. |