King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes, 23rd July

Highland Reel will run here next according to AOB. You would, then, expect Dartmouth to be supplemented.

It's right that the early pace was slower in the CC so that explains the time looking so bad in comparison with the Derby. However the fact remains that Postponed still hasn't recorded a high class time and the two Gp1s he won were quite poor on the day. He did win at Epsom with the minimum of effort from the jockey but I don't think that necessarily means the horse was in third gear and had another two gears in reserve.

We see races every day where horses are travelling like winners but find little or nothing at all when put under maximum pressure. When commentators say a horse was value for 5 times the winning distance this is total guesswork and I'd argue in most cases it's a huge exaggeration. Maybe Postponed is capable of more than he's shown but I don't see him anything like as short as a 5/4 chance.

Dartmouth is no Harbinger nor even a Telescope. A supplementary fee would go the same way as Snow Sky's last year.

Not convinced by him as a 2.08 shot I'm afraid. Remember how weak the KG was last year due to late withdrawals by Golden Horn and Flintshire ? I'm happy to have laid him at 2.10.

bit left field but any chance Order of St George turns up here?

I would say he's improved since then Lordnoise. That race marked the start of his improvement.

rease, AOB said yesterday he's not running, a prep race before the Irish St.Leger is next.

Sint, can you really say with confidence that Postponed has improved? I'd say he was entitled to win these recent races just on his form from last year. Maybe he has improved but there has been no hard evidence as yet and it's been more about the style of his wins than the substance. Also I'm always keen to take on the Varian runners at the highest level as I've seen many that have looked like they could be better than shown and they usually fail to make the expected step up. Possibly Varian has managed to get more out of Postponed than Cumani ever could but at this price I'm itching to oppose him, I just hope the field doesn't weaken too much.

ah thanks sint, just browsing the entries - just can't see how Highland Reel beats Postponed - 4+ lengths to find from Sheema Classic, HR probably suited to faster ground but so might Postponed be.

The Grey Gatsby's an admirable animal but without a win since he beat Australia in the Irish Champion nearly 2 years ago.

Just can't see what beats Postponed unless it's a 3yo improver in receipt of 12lbs. Just been through the last 5 renewals and AOB has n't run a 3yo colt in any of those. Wings of Desire goes to Grand Prix De Paris, Harzand will surely be left off until the Autumn after Irish Derby when they know he's more likely to get his ground.

Intilaaq could be interesting stepped up in trip but he's only won a Listed race and a Group 3 and is in the same stable as Postponed.

In my view Highland Reel was the moral winner of the Hardwicke after Seamus dropped his whip. He'll do for me on fast turf back at Ascot (had no prep run in the Sheema Classic). And depending on the ground - remember its not always G-F at Ascot late July - others to consider might be Cannock Chase, New Bay and Exosphere (who hated the ground in the Hardwicke). Lets also see how Tie Test runs in the Eclipse. Postponeds a sitting Duck imo.

highland reel would have won by 2 lengths if he got a few cracks

I like Postponed - I backed him for the Arc last year as a saver and had a good crack off him at Meydan. But I don't think he's ever going to be more than a consistent high-class horse - i.e. I don't see him as an improver any more and his level is definitely beatable - maybe not this year,

But MINDING - if she took it in - with Even Song a strong runner in a possibly wet Irish Oaks,

I'm sure Minding is not being prepared for the KG, as is AO'Bs way with 3yo fillies at this stage of the season, .. but if it was soft/heavy at the Curragh and good at Ascot he could well send her and she'd likely shade Postponed imo.

On the same vein, Harzand and USAR (in particular the latter) would have a good chance - not like Minding ofc,

BUT for the Top Older Horse I think Postponed is quite a weak one year-to-year

As for the Eclipse and Interational - I'm sure The Gurkha will be the rep

i would love to see the english & irish derby winners line up........it would bring life back into the king george. the thought of postponed beating some bunch of group 3 horses wont be good.

I can't recall any reliable form line between the staying 3yo's and older horses so far this season so until there is I can't oppose Postponed but the age allowance is significant in the KG.

AOB has already stated Deauville did not stay the Derby 12f hence is heading to the Eclipse which may mean The Gurkha (TG) is Sussex Stakes bound to duel with Galileo Gold and probably Awtaad again. Until Minding actually runs in the Pretty Polly this weekend over 10f the Eclipse could still be on her agenda given the possibility of softish ground which Deauville hates.

I agree Minding will not run in a 12f race here against the colts until 'Arc' day, if she is runs.

TG is being aimed at the Sussex stakes

I think he has improved yes Figgis. He got beat a few times before his KG win and I think that race was the start of his upward curve. I know what you mean about Varian horses at G1 level but that's more for 2 & 3yo. Postponed is set in stone maturity wise. He'll run to his best and is depends if something else can improve past him.

deauville does not stay any trip in a group 1 race. hes a useless horse. end of.

Got to be a great chance USAR runs here now Sint.

Postponed just might have a worthy opponent in UAR, a late absentee in this week's Irish Derby, here - would that not be great? If Harzand is also an absentee in the Irish Derby we could have the Epsom Derby 1st and 2nd engaged here after all, and that indeed would be very tasty.

I'm not saying USAR won't turn up here, there's obviously a very good chance he might but I don't think it's a given.

The last time AOB ran a 3yo colt in the King George was 2010 (Cape Blanco) and he had Golden Sword and Rockhampton in the 2009 renewal. Admittedly the circumstances where he had a Derby runner up who had to miss the Irish Derby probably have n't prevailed in recent years.

The RP article has a bookies rep speculating that he might turn up in the Eclipse but I doubt that as it may well come too soon after his unsatisfactory scope, they've already stated Deauville will target the Eclipse and USAR shapes like a horse who relishes 12 furlongs.

I could, though, see USAR joining Wings of Desire in the Grand Prix De Paris which I think is at Saint Cloud on 14th July this year.

I cannot see UAR going to the Eclipse because 10f is too short for him. Of course, UAR could go to France but let's hope he comes here.

AOB doesn't seem interested in this race.Of course that could change but I'll stick with the notion that he won't run anything here.Looks like Postponed is a 2/5 odds on  tap in.

AOB usually has an older horse for this race - so Highland Reel might be the Ballydoyle runner. But I would not rule out USAR appearing as he hasn't won a big race yet. However they might not fancy their best colt possibly getting a pasting from Postponed.

AOB usually has an older horse for this race - so Highland Reel might be the Ballydoyle runner. But I would not rule out USAR appearing as he hasn't won a big race yet. However they might not fancy their best colt possibly getting a pasting from Postponed.

AOB usually has an older horse for this race - so Highland Reel might be the Ballydoyle runner. But I would not rule out USAR appearing as he hasn't won a big race yet. However they might not fancy their best colt possibly getting a pasting from Postponed.

knavesmire007,

You could be correct, AOB is giving UAR a 2/3 weeks' 'holiday' which means this race is unlikely, if so.

Not sure 123 - IF hes out of the Eclipse then due to the lack of opportunities going forward (and imo Postponed being a weak fav) then surely he'll run him given decent ground.

lordnoise,

I hope you are right as I've backed him for this race immediately after he was scratched from the Irish Derby. However, now I think it's very unlikely as I believe UAR will only race his elders in the 'Arc' and not before because of the 'financial' costs at stake. Neither will UAR be dropped in trip in his next race.

Could Idaho deputise for UAR here? If so, he'd be a credible deputy, I think.

no speed in the shed right , the gurkha will step down to the sussex , harzand as much as he done me a favour . does he look like an exceptional colt ? its a boring one but id be very suprised if anything can offer postponed a challenge . he,ll win this and go to the arc as red hot favourite imo . and he,ll win that unless a horse comes on tonnes in a prix niel , vermeille , foy imo

it has happened before in that the french train there horses for the arc and we try to stretch ours . lots of graveyard stories for the derby winners , but , training has changed , a good trainer will produce a top horse at his near best now . i think postponed wins the king george and the arc at this moment in  time . boring i know but this horse has a stone at least on all middle distance contempories

i love the intrigue of just asking questions and sometimes you really hit on something unconsidered . harzand for example , so love the scrutiny . i think muhammed ali said a lot about his contendors , he could see they didnt have speed  , technique , confidence and the wherewithall . were talking here about the summer middle distance race , the first one between older horses and 3yos , the king george , postponed is way ahead . no price however . he will float like a butterfly and sting like a bee . his  level is too good . hes got a stone on all imo

i love the intrigue of just asking questions and sometimes you really hit on something unconsidered . harzand for example , so love the scrutiny . i think muhammed ali said a lot about his contendors , he could see they didnt have speed  , technique , confidence and the wherewithall . were talking here about the summer middle distance race , the first one between older horses and 3yos , the king george , postponed is way ahead . no price however . he will float like a butterfly and sting like a bee . his  level is too good . hes got a stone on all imo

i love the intrigue of just asking questions and sometimes you really hit on something unconsidered . harzand for example , so love the scrutiny . i think muhammed ali said a lot about his contendors , he could see they didnt have speed  , technique , confidence and the wherewithall . were talking here about the summer middle distance race , the first one between older horses and 3yos , the king george , postponed is way ahead . no price however . he will float like a butterfly and sting like a bee . his  level is too good . hes got a stone on all imo

Postponed was a good horse last year when he was with Cumani and has developed into an even better horse this year. Until he's encountered a top 3yr old eg Minding, Harzand, Us Army Ranger or Idaho I'd reserve judgement who's the best. Let's hope at least one of the mentioned will give Postponed a race here, if not,I'm certain they'll meet in the 'Arc' in October.

I'd be gobsmacked if Postponed won the Arc. I can see him winning the KG but not both.

AOB has ruled out USAR which is a bit of a surprise.

sintonian

Where have you heard USAR has been ruled out for this race please? I know AOB is giving him a holiday. If so, Minding and USAR would have cost me a small bundle for a no-show in The Eclipse and King George VI & QE2 - perils of betting antepost I guess.

postponed wins this impossibe123 . get a few quid on madison keys

I'm hoping at least Idaho turns up - better if USAR does but very unlikely. If none of the 3yr old turns up then Postponed will walk it.

Regards Madison Keys, I'll after My Dream Boat strolls to a victory in The Eclipse.

He said in the RP this week he'd be given a break and then head for the Royal Whip, G2, before autumn campaign. Very surprising given he'd be getting 12lb from Postponed.

Presently, there is little or no competition here for Postponed unless Erupt is confirmed to run or Hawkbill supplemented on 18th July - the rest are just of no unfavourable consequence to Postponed, if he's sound. Nevertheless, another five days to prevent this unsavoury status quo.

Wings of Desire runs

Hope your right Sint,

Just had a max e/w at 14/1 with Sid.

Just went back to double my stake but price has changed to 10/1.

Charlie Appleby, the trainer of Hawkbill, was non committal about supplementing Hawkbill for this race on monday. However, he did allude to the Juddmonte International Stakes on 17th Aug at York though. If so, Hawkbill is unlikely for the Great Voltigeur on the same day where he's 6/1 2nd 'fav' behind Idaho and probably could be discounted for the St Leger either, I'd have thought.

another very poor turnout for britains big summer race..........

a shocking turnout guys..........juddemont, irish champion stakes and arc are now the 3 premier races..........king george is gone downhill

main problem is the lack of top class 12f horses in Britain. But when there are they usually run - Golden Horn was scratched due the ground.

Coolmore seem to have deserted this race with their 3yos -  if they're trying to win the Arc with one this strategy is not working.

This race is looking like a 'walkover' for Postponed unless Wings of Desire springs a surprise for the 3yr old; it will probably remain so if Coolmore do not possess a 4yr old that is a credible contender as long as their reluctance to engage any of their 3yr old colt or filly is in place for commercial and financial reasons. I think even at a price of 1.5 on race day Postponed could be value in this company, all things being equal.

A look through recent past winners of the KG show it's still a race that produces a quality winner and not many of them went off at very short odds so they must've been quite competitive affairs. Personally I'd say last year's was the worst quality for quite a while. What's noticeable is that where it used to be a race that had more 3yo winners there have been more older winners in recent years, despite many of us still believing that the 3yo allowance is more than fair.

There have been reasonable excuses why some of the best 3yos of their year didn't run, such as trying to achieve the Triple Crown with Camelot, but in many other cases it's just seemed like picking seemingly easier options. This year's race looks like being unusually weak, as A_T says it just happens to be a year lacking top class 12f horses, particularly older ones. So I don't think the race is in crisis yet but I reckon the BHA need to offer more of an incentive to re-establish the importance of the race in the calendar. I think most of us want to see a clash between the best 3yos and older horses on (hopefully) decent ground in the middle of the summer. Having to wait until October is totally unsatisfactory.

Roasting hot week forecast so going should be good-to-firm or faster.

Given Hawkbills recent rapid improvement has come on easy going I would be surprised if they ran him.

It is disappointing Coolmore have withdrawn Idaho and US Army Ranger, the former most probably being aimed at the Great Voltigeur and eventually the St Leger whilst the latter a small prep race in Ireland (probably) prior to a tilt in the 'Arc'. If the 3yr old, Idaho, is running here at least a benchmark will be established between them and his elders eg Postponed.

Appleby said: "Potentially in time a step forward could be a mile and a half, stepping up in trip - we're confident he'd get the mile and a half. He saw the trip out well at Ascot in soft ground and we saw the best of him in the last two furlongs at Sandown.

"First and foremost we'll see how he comes out of the race. He's had a nice race at Ascot, then he's had to battle away yesterday.
"It's the timing more than anything. We don't want to rush him back if he's not ready.
"Equally, he's doing so well at a mile and a quarter at the moment there's a possibility he'll stay at that trip and go for the Juddmonte International or the Irish Champion. Those races are there for consideration.
"We could eke out a bit more improvement stepping him up in trip, but he's more than capable of holding his own at a mile and a quarter at this moment in time.

"I think it's an ace up his sleeve that he can handle those (soft) conditions, but he's a Kitten's Joy colt and an extremely good mover. He's an athlete.
"I'd be confident a sounder surface should suit him better."

Those were Appleby's comments after the Eclipse. At the time he seemed quite confident about the longer trip and better ground.

Sint - are you sure Gosden has said WOD is going for this?

The market says otherwise as I'd have thought he'd be a clear 2nd fav at about 6/1 if Gosden had confirmed him as a runner?

Dartmouth supplemented but no Hawksbill.

All the main protagonists have stood there ground so could be a fairly decent event even if Postponed does hack up.

A woeful turnout even if they all turn up, hence the worst King George winner in recent years, in my view, being odds on for a repeat. Most of the other older horses, despite the titles of races they've contested, are no better than Listed class at best. I'd say Western Hymn is a Gp3 animal at best but isn't proven at the trip and looks to have completely gone off the boil lately. It's difficult to see any of the older runners improving, maybe Sir Isaac Newton at a stretch, as he's travelled very well and only been produced at the end to win his races.

The most realistic challenger to Postponed has to be Wings of Desire. Actually on his Dante run I'd have him 2lbs ahead of Postponed in receipt of 12lbs. The trouble is he ran below that form last time in the Derby. You could make the excuse that the ground was a bit softer than ideal for him there and it's very possible that it came too soon after what was a hard race in the Dante. Nevertheless it will still have to be taken on trust that he can ever repeat his Dante run. There have been many that peaked in a trial and never got near that form again, such as Bonfire a few years ago. Another thing to consider is if he'll be as good over 12f. He won over the trip but at a much lesser level and while I expect him to stay in better company there's no proof he'll be quite as good. All negatives considered I'd still rather have an each way bet on him than back the overrated (imo) very short priced fav.

Agree with much of that Figgis which is why I can't understand why WOD isn't clear 2nd fav.
Felt he ran ok in the Derby and was very tenderly handled once the front 3 had gone beyond recall.
The Derby form has worked out nicely and Gosden has a good record in the KG so why is the horse 10/1 4th best on here?

Uncle, well I'd have him second favourite but Dartmouth is trained by Stoute and goes there on for a four timer so he's going to have his supporters and the Coolmore pick will always be reasonably popular. I think all three that finished in front of WoD in the Derby showed better form than his Dante win but I reckon on form he ought to have finished a much closer fourth and I think most people saw it as a bit of a disappointment, whereas the Stoute and O'Brien horses go there in peak form. That said, I'm expecting him to go off shorter when the each way money is down. Nathaniel's odds shortened in the days before his KG and while this horse isn't in the same class I'd take it as a big negative about his well being if there isn't some stable support for him.

Don't forget many people felt WOD wouldn't handle the Epsom track after his 'Breakfast with the Stars' performance, so that may have played a small part as well.

I didn't back him for the Derby so wasn't at all bothered how he ran on the day, but when watching the race back he did strike me as a horse who was better than the bare form, hence tipping him for the Eclipse a month or so ago.

Either way I still expect Postponed to win very easily - just hoping he has an off day.

Postponed is a genuine enough horse who is consistent, who will have ground, course and distance in his favour. He has run to 126 RPR the past 2 outings but at GE 5 and 16 runs on the board I wouldn't be too keen to argue that he will improve his PB again on Saturday. Maybe, but thats odds against imo. So, the obvious favourite, but is the market right to have him at 1.55 in the A/P book? To mind, that is too short.

He has 3 horses to beat who could improve up to that level. Dartmouth is rated 4lbs behind on 122 and has improved his PB consistently from race to race. Its possible to argue that after 12 runs he may not improve again but with his record he is more likely to than not I would say. Any improvement puts him very close to Postponed and with C&D experience and a trainer who can keep improving his horses I don't see that he can be priced right at 8.6.

Wings of Desire is a top of the ground horse imo and his run at Epsom was  laudable against 3 horses in front of him that day who are all suited by give.He has to improve more than Dartmouth being on 119 RPR but having had just 4 runs he is more than capable of doing so. Gosden was saying some very nice things about the colt prior to the Derby.

Highland Reel represents AOB and that is enough to put him on the premises.His PB is 121 and the Meydan run behind Postponed confirms that is right.He may have leveled off on improvement possibly after 14 runs but with Moore up, he cannot be dismissed easily.

Of the rest, Erupt, WH and SIN can all be given some sort of chance but for any of the rest to figure you would need 200/1 at least.

The average winner over the past 10 years of the KG rates 127 RPR so Postponed cannot be rated above average and to my mind he is not an odds on chance, so I will be taking him on with Dartmouth and WOD on Saturday. The ground is likely to be no slower than good (possible rain on Friday) but with the weather the way it is I should think that GF is more than likely which gives me hope that these two can find sufficient improvement to beat Postponed. At the prices, I'm willing to find out.

age 5

Sandown, I'd say them having Dartmouth only 4lbs behind Postponed is overrating him. His best run was last time out, on times it was an easy card to rate and I have Dartmouth 9lbs behind Postponed. Even though I don't rate Postponed very highly I think it was a particularly weak Hardwicke this year. The way the race was run there's no obvious reason why he should improve much on that, plus he had quite a hard race. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to bridge the gap, it can happen, but it doesn't seem very likely. I suppose Postponed could run below his best though then it's entirely up for grabs. Do you personally rate Dartmouth only 4lbs behind Postponed?

Figgis

I have to use the RPR figures because they are available to all. Your figures, my figures are not. Personally, I would agree with you that at 122 Dartmouth is rated higher by the RP than I would have him, but then I don't have Postponed as high as 126 either. But, my point is that I don't believe that he is so far behind Postponed that a difference of 1.55 to 8.4 represents the gap between them given that for me Dartmouth is the more likely of the two to have a bit more improvement in him. All things being equal, I would expect Postponed to beat Dartmouth on Saturday but their relative chances are not, imo, 65% chances and 12% chances which the odds imply.

Its quite possible for Postponed to run below his best, for whatever reason, and likewise for Dartmouth to improve. (The Irish Oaks illustrated how even within a stable, its not always easy to forecast that an Even Song can flop running 22 lbs below PB whilst a Seventh Heaven can improve 15 lbs on PB).

Again, as a backer of WOD in the Derby, I was not too disappointed by his run at Epsom because I had strong doubts on the ground and adjusted my bet accordingly. On his Dante form, I belive that this horse can run to a 125 rating so I for me he is the better valkue. He is no 9% chance. So,I'll take the 2  together at the prices (7/2 dutched) but I'll most likely have WOD as the bigger winner.

I don't follow their figure regularly but I can't understand at all how they could have Postponed a huge 11lbs ahead of WoD on these wfa terms. I accept that many wouldn't have it as close I have with WoD 2lbs ahead (although my figures are based on WoD's 10f form with no inbuilt allowance for any wfa difference over 12f), but I'm sure most of us would have it much closer than 11lbs.

well i was keen to find a horse to get postponed with but am afraid these horses just are not good enough...i have been very picky in regards trying to pick postponed form apart but really he has improved this year from the horse that battled very hard to beat the average eagle top last year...i just don't feel he has really had a chance to post a real top notch performance this year just because of pace but his dubai run was very good against a decent group 1 horse in second and decent yardsticks in third and forth and he has improved, more in regards to his settling he does seem more settled horse this year which is allowing him to extend and finish his races better...1/2 odds is tight as we stand but i'm not sure what he should be layed at 4/6 probably

anyway i don't feel the need to pick the bones out of the others, as others have put up cases for the horses and have bet them and i doubt i will be betting here except a small forecast and tri-cast bet

erupt a one paced horse who refuses to drop the bit, just may surprise a few and if i was to have an ew bet it would be him but i'm not as he may do his normal act of pulling, then just plugging on at the one paced, a stronger rider would help

its a shame cannock chase never made the race i liked him for this hey ho

It probably sounds like I've been harsh on Postponed, as Sandown says he's a tough, genuine and consistent horse and should be given credit for that. I backed him in last year's race, posted on here before the race, it wasn't one of my larger bets but he was between 8 and 9s at the time and it was still a nice win, so I don't have any axe to grind over him. I just thought last year's race was poor beforehand and still felt that way afterwards.

He's certainly looked more stylish in his wins this year but I think the Dubai races were weak and those behind would've finished as far behind in last year's KG. It was more his Coronation Cup win where he looked an improved horse, but the time was moderate, Found hasn't trained on and the other beaten runners aren't really worth mentioning. Just because he appeared to do it easily doesn't necessarily mean he can improve on that form. I'm not ruling out that he could be an improved horse as a 5yo but at this sort of price I want more solid evidence than I've seen this season.

These are the kind of runners I wait for, one where I think the majority have overrated it. Therefore it's very disappointing that 8 of his 9 likely opponents are well behind even substandard Gp1 form on what I've seen. Postponed remains the one to beat but I think WoD can at least run him very close if coming back to his Dante form. If Postponed does win I hope he proves my doubts wrong and thrashes the field to show he really is an improved horse.

Found is no superstar and is no Minding either; Found has not improved from last year and her greatest moment of glory was beating Golden Horn in America when conditions were in her favour but against the latter.

This race will also have a significant influence on the betting of the 'Arc'; if Postponed cannot beat his opponents here comprehensively especially Wings Of Desire, his position at the head of that market will cease immediately. But I hope he can otherwise, the likes of Order Of St George, Harzand and Minding will vie for that position.

Hi all. I am a fan of this race even if the last winner I had was Danedream. She was 10s though so no crying from this quarter.
This does look a below average race and could be ripe for an upset. I can't see or read of anyone being confident about anything to win it. In fact Postponed only wins it by default. That's what you all appear to be saying. And I agree. 
I've backed Western Hymn at 100s down to win a nice few quid. When he was beaten narrowly by Time Test JG said his next run would be over 12f wearing blinkers. At that time it looked like just what he wanted. However when I looked no suitable 12f races were on the horizon and he was only entered in this race. JG then ran him in the POW and the Eclipse. Has he changed his mind or has he just been getting him ready for this race? Added to that Frankie rides WoD.
Like all of the other runners his form wouldn't normally be good enough but there is really very little between most of these and it will be interesting to see what JG does. He is also entered in the Skybet race on the same day over 10f so it will be interesting to see what unfolds. Sadly I'm only here for a few hours and flying out again in the morning so I will have to wait to see what unfolds. It's a b u gg er trying to plan anything.
I've had a nice few quid on him for the York Stakes at 18s just in case.
If he runs in the KG and he does wear blinkers I will try to get a nice bet on here w/o the favourite and for a place. Not over confident but his best form stands up against the others and with the aids on and over a longer trip he may just get there. I've backed worse animals. Good luck.

Postponed out fo the King George.

^of
Respiratory infection.

Not a way I like to make money but its now a bet to nothing race for me. As a racing fan I want to see the best horses running. As a punter, I've been on the wrong side of non-runners in the A/P book enough times for me to sympathise with Postponed backers. Backing odds on chances A/P is never a play for me because I cannot see where the value ever lies - they're always going to be playable on the day unless there are a large number of non-runners.

Anyway, my sympathies again. I'm sure that what goes around comes around though, and you'll get back your losses. Frustrating nevertheless, especially if you played withing the last 24 hours.There may be some bookies who will refund but no way that will happen on BF, of course. It's all in here.

Was thinking about Wings of desire, but Postponed was still in at the time so i left the race alone. Now that postponed is unfortunately out, i backed wod at 9/2. It's obviously an open race.

I only had a small each way bet on WoD with the intention of topping up when nrnb, but at these prices with Postponed out of the way WoD becomes a maximum bet for me when we get the final decs.  I reckon Western Hymn has the best form of the older runners but his latest runs have been really poor, maybe he could bounce back on better ground but even if he does he's unproven at the trip. Horses like Dartmouth and Highland Reel just aren't proper Gp1 material in my view. For me they'd struggle to even win a decent Gp3 in a good year. Sure they could improve just as any runner anywhere could, but I can't see any obvious reasons why they would. I have WoD's Dante run only 1lb behind the Hardwicke form and he gets a huge 12lbs wfa here. In fact even if he only runs to his Derby form I have him 3lbs ahead on these terms. I just hope it's a truly run race, as it's in well run races that weight differences are maximised.

I wonder if Godolphin now regret not supplementing Hawkbill, although it's unlikely they'd admit it publicly even if they do. If the horse isn't really ready then fair enough it was still the right decision. However if he is ready then they couldn't have had a better chance of him bagging another Gp1. The chances are it'll be more difficult for him in later events.

What a shame Postponed is out! But kudos and possible reward for those trainers not afraid to take him on; the Queen must have an excellent chance of collecting again, if not, the 3yr old Wings Of Desire could be next in the queue following the withdrawal of Postponed.

The Juddmonte next for Postponed without a doubt now, all being well.

market just looks horrible for this

What I'd like to know is should Wings Of Desire come out victorious in this will he carry another penalty for the Great Voltigeur next month? At the moment he's down to carry 9st 3lbs ie 3lbs extra for winning the Dante. Much appreciated if someone could oblige with info.

He would simply carry a 5lb penalty for winning a Group 1 (so 9st 5lb), though if he wins the KG I would say there is no chance of him going for the Voltigeur.

I remember Reference Point and Belmez, both trained by Cecil, took in the Voltigeur after the KG, but agree with uncle it seems unlikely that would happen here.

unclepuncle,

Thanks for the info. I guess giving 5lbs to either Idaho and/or USAR in the Great Voltigeur next month is a non event, I guess. However, Wings Of Desire could still still run in the St Leger the month after.

If I'm right about WOD going preference,then the KG is his best chance of a G1 so I would expect hi to be peaked for Sat. York would come too soon.

seems an awful lot of people keen on wings of desire, i thought the dante was won by the wrong horse and was a poor edition of the race, i suppose the wfa is swinging it but i don't think he's that good even against these horses

It is not difficult to see the attraction of Wings Of Desire given wfa advantage and post the exit of Postponed; Dartmouth was a late entry and is very closely rated with Highland Reel (best over 10f and no Gp1 material). I think the danger could come from Erupt who'd like the better going.

erupt's fifth behind golden horn in last years arc wins this.........last time he was out for a jog and came an awful way from the back to be second.........he should be fav

Backed both Highland Reel and Erupt each way.

I have backed Dartmouth and also had a little on Sir Isaac Newton.

Fancy Highland Reel & Erupt to fight out the finish in 2days (rather weak) KG.
few ££ reverse forecast 1,2 for me. Gd luck lads.

Well it looked a depressingly poor renewal on paper and it got the race it deserved - dull as ditchwater.

Well it looked a depressingly poor renewal on paper and it got the race it deserved - dull as ditchwater.

I wouldn't back Highland Reel with your money for the'Arc' despite Wings Of Desire 'advertising' the form of the 3yr olds to some extent.

Pretty sure Postponed would have caned that lot.

ye agree, a poor race on paper and so it proved, the first 2 had the run of the race so no real excuses, the others just finding the one pace, i think it was the poorest renewal i can remember...wings of desire just backed up the fact the dante was a poor race, he is just an average colt no matter you cut it...the winner is still a solid horse and today was the first time this season he had the ground he craves, so fair play to him for digging in when it mattered and he won a shade cosily in the end...no doubt postponed would of won this race if on song so a shame for the race he didn't make it

I'm sure that the best horse won but the ride on Dartmouth beggared belief. After giving him a very good ride in the Hardwicke, Peslier had a real stinker yesterday and the horse had absolutely no chance from 4 furlongs out when he was still several lengths behind the winner at a modest pace and on the bridle! What exactly was he thinking? I honestly thought that Dartmouth must have lost his action at one point, so little effort was Peslier making to improve his position.

I think the winner is probably pretty good - made all his own running and won cosily giving the Derby 4th 12 pounds. Looks like an ideal type for the Breeders Cup Turf.

What a superbly judged ride that was by Moore. He did not go at a very slow pace but fast enough to maintain control and to have a lead at the 2 furlong pole which made it all but impossible for anything other than WOD to get to him. HR ran the last 2f in 24.2 secs and for anything else other than WOD  to catch him they would have needed sub 23 second last 2f which is hardly likely given the overall pace of the race. Although the final time rating for me was not fast (below average) and the collateral rating will be low at around 122 for the winner I would guess, the race was won by a trained to the minute  which had its ground (as the betting forewarned) and given one of the best rides we've seen for a while.

Just to demonstrate how difficult it is to do (Moore made it look easy) to give a front running ride, in the last race (over 12f) Joe Fanning, an above average front rider himself, got to the 2 pole around 2 secs faster on an 82 rated horse and conked out over the last 2f.

WOD still has the potential to win an average G1 race on fast ground imo as even he had to much to do. As for the other jockeys in the race, especially the 2 French jocks, they had very bad days at the office. They gave their mounts no chance.

I was away for a few days but caught the race and agree with most of Sandown's summary of how the race went. WoD ran as well as I'd hoped, proving himself clearly better than the Hardwicke form with Dartmouth well held and I though Dettori gave him a great ride under the less than ideal situation of a slow pace, not allowing Moore to completely steal the race. I had never been impressed by Highland Reel, like Erupt all his best runs were off slow paces, when involved in fast run races he'd looked pretty ordinary. Once again he got a slowly run affair but even though the wfa wasn't as big an advantage as it would've been if they'd gone fast I thought WoD had every chance and Highland Reel is obviously a better horse than I'd reckoned.

I agreed with the pre-race argument HR could turn around the Hardwicke form with Dartmouth but there's no way I thought he could turn it around by more than four lengths. Once again with the Coolmore operation the pointer to a much improved showing came with a flood of money for the winner in recent days. I thought there was a good chance he could replace Dartmouth for favouritism but I didn't foresee him being supported into as short as 13/8. Occasionally the informed Ballydoyle money misses the target and those who strictly follow the form book win the battle but more often than not those on the inside get it right. The general advice to backers years ago was trust the form book and ignore the insider gambles, as most miss the target or at worst things will at least even out in the end. I'd say that advice is invalid nowadays, some yards are more astute than others but it seems all but the most incompetent of yards are able to judge homework that should get replicated on the track.

Back to the race I still can't rate it true Gp1 form, Highland Reel could possibly pick up another weak Gp1 but I think the beaten runners will struggle in the near future, maybe WoD can do better as a 4yo.

I think AOB uses top races as preps and I think that's what HR was having in the Hardwicke.

Hence the floods of money yesterday.

Well that was possibly a waste of time with Western Hymn but, then again, maybe not. He seemed to stay the trip but it probably wasn't a proper test and only around 6 lengths covered the whole field at the line. The best horse won though and WH isn't G1 anyway. I suppose thankfully John Gosden left off the blinkers so that tempered my enthusiasm anyway and there was no betting without the fav and no real place betting. I also lost on the York race where I took 18s but, of course, he never ran. Maybe he could have gone close looking at the result.
Looking ahead perhaps JG will put the blinds on next time against lesser opposition possibly send WH to France for a bit of cut or wait for the Cumberland Lodge. That should be right up his street. All may not be lost just yet.