I'm the one with the funds in the bank. Never after time without backing the thing. Keep making excuses Fig and trying to deflect the fact that you lost AGAIN. If you ever want a tipping competition just say and I will show you up for the fraud you are.

u probably had a saver on cracksman as well lmfao

hey up Howellsy another loser has joined the scene. I don't attack anybody, even said that cracksman ran a great race for brigust who had got a great price. imo he was never to going to win the race. result he lost. but you lot can't help yourselves. Bullshat artists and people who should give the game up and can't admit when they are wrong. A typical english trait.

Always admit when i get it wrong. I am  the same in victory as in defeat. Would have been the first on here to say well done to brigust if cracksman had watered the track. Just ashame that u lot can't do the same. Anyway goodnight losers

If I'd just had a massive win on the Derby I doubt I'd be so angry. Still, each to his own.

Figgis, it's always hard to know the extent to which slight personal frustrations are affecting one's interpretations. I can't help wondering what might have happened if Moore had been closer to the pace, like Cracksman. It's a strange thing about the Derby - it seemed like a 'blistering' pace yet DMac finished very close up. I suspect the trackers went very quick between the 3 and 1 pole to catch him and paid the price close home. Moore's ride was a virtually exact replica of how he rode US Army Ranger and the Queen's horse a few years ago, and Tartan Bearer - it may well be that the horses just weren't good enough, but surely he must be curious as to what might happen if he sat closer? If any of these horses had been world beaters, I'm sure they would have won, but all I'm interested in as a punter is whether they could have won given a more tactically astute ride on the day. Lester Piggott reckoned the best tactic was generally to be in the first 6 coming around Tattenham corner. As for the winner, I just can't see how that set of circumstances can be repeated again, so find it hard to see how he can follow up. It reminded me a bit of the filly Talent a few years back - visually an impressive winner but no tactical speed and never able to repeat it. Nevertheless, I would love it if WOE could be ridden handier and could win the Irish Derby, and then come back in trip and win a top 10f event. There's no prejudice against him at all- just a feeling that this'll be another year when the Derby winner doesn't win again, which doesn't do the race any good, especially as there are plenty of people who like to undermine it.

Anyone that backed WOE well done has obviously improved alot and wasn't a complete rag (100/1+) so there must have been a feeling in the yard there was a little bit more to come from the Chester Vase form. A bit galling for COM to run a huge race only to come up short especially after a similar outcome from USAR last year. My initial take was that it wasn't a great race given the top 10 were covered by 8L but i suppose time will tell. The time of the Derby does actually compare fairly favorably to the 1m 4f handicap in the next race and was run 4 seconds quicker than that. Considering the field size of the derby and conditions it was well set-up for a good clock time but it will be a headscratcher for the timebeing.  My final take was that i thought Cracksman ran probably better than the bare result given his inexperience. Anyway its been a great ride from picking out 2 yoy form to being at Epsom watching it yesterday. The derby is always a great puzzle to solve even if the result isn't necessarily what I would hope for.

Awful night in London last night. Our hotel was nowhere near it thank goodness but what started off as an early night ended up well into the early hours. Had planned an early start, off to spend a few days with friends north of the border and hopefully get in few rounds of golf.

I think Cracksman was the moral winner yesterday, through gritted teeth. He was in the heat of the battle from the start and was still running on at the death. Epsom is clearly a fast horses track with the winner ridden like a non stayer, CoM, Eminent and Benbatl the speed horses, Capri is a 10f horse according to his trainer and then come the supposed guaranteed stayers. Douglas MacArthur, Best Solution, Glencadam Glory, Permian, Dubai Thunder, Venice Beach, Khalidi. Had this been a true stamina test Cracksman would have won easily. In my humble opinion of course.

All eyes are on the Curragh now, though I wouldn't mind if he missed it, which will suit him admirably then a month later the King George. I would fear a top class 3 year old filly in the King George but I wouldn't fear the non stayers Highland Reel, Jack Hobbs and Almanzor.

And finally, the Derby result shows again how misguided those people are who think AOB is a genius. He had the Derby winner in his yard, managed to get him beaten several times and only won a p oxy maiden. If that had been Curley the BHA would have been all over him. And I am convinced that wouldn't have happened if he were trained elsewhere. He would have been placed differently, raced differently, potentially been unbeaten and would not have come in unmentioned and under the radar. But that obviously suits a team owned by bookies where more money is made from bookmaking and from breeding.  Still the CoM backers clearly didn't mind being kept well and truly in the dark, treated like mushrooms then fed a good dose of c rap at the end. Good luck to you.

Sorry guys.It's been a long night. Will be back for the Curragh but in the US of A for the King George. Have a good one and be lucky. That includes you Loto and Uncle.

Certainly think COM had a very hard race - Cracksman was coming back at him - I would not want to back him next time

I don't think Moore did anything wrong - the winner came from a long way back too but nothing else from behind was closing - WoE was "the last to challenge" (in the words of Pat Eddery) and may just be a very good horse

Certainly think COM had a very hard race

Another thing with CoM is he obviously gets pretty edgy about the whole racing scenario anyway, a hard race like that could affect him more than most.

winner could be a high chaparral type

fast improving stayer for me

AOB said Cliffs of Moher (CoM) could be Eclipse bound. Could he be on the same wavelength as some here regards CoM's Derby race eg he was coming to the end of his tether? I think the prospect of CoM winning a prestigious Group 1 12f is very limited.

If CoM does take the Eclipse (10f) route it seems unlikely Churchill will be up in distance until the Juddmonte International at the earliest; if CoM excels over 10f even less chance of Churchill doing so to avoid an encounter, I firmly believe.

Went to 100/1 on here. There comes a point where the price was just ridiculous for its chances. Whose the clown now Jedi Sophie.LaughLaugh

What are you talking about TRY MY BEST???

Gloating baffoon!

Well done if indeed did bet winner,around 14th on my radar....Couldnt bet with counterfeit!

Brig .. Down but not out. I have had an awful fortnight backed Chelsea for £1200 in the FA Cup laid off some then thought playing well enough would at least get back in game 1 down backed them again switched over back again Moses walking had Rodendenron at 25/1 laid bit off to mean not supping smart price and cracksman EW at 33/1 went for glory really no other way describing madness put lay up for £500 at 2 for a few bottles of dom pom was done at 2.04 lowest got some ammo though for RA been backing Gold Cup favourite for ever since last year Hills went 2/1 then an even more generous 3/1 for a while for a jolly good wodge. Ended up winning should of and could have been more. Hindight is a wonderful thing. Be careful on them planes world is a dangerous place. Had also backed Churchill at 20/1 in Derby more down the drain.

That should have been Chelsea at 6/1. when we get to Arc time think we'll see mile and half english and irish horses are well down the pecking order French will be miles in front wouldn't be suprised to see japanese have a very good one or two. Like Figgis says hard to know how good winner was i'll throw a couple of bob at it in the Irish derby because price might be value there you go. probably more down the drain.

so Jack, did Wave really get the 7f ? Cry Sickened, didn't do any jumping up and down but tried to coax his to the finish line - the last 50yds was just too much, even Cracksman made nearly 1L back on him,


Wave certainly stayed 7 furlongs as a 2yo and CoM stayed the distance yesterday, he was just outstayed by a much stronger stayer who was more suited to how the race was run.

I don't know how you think Cracksman made nearly a length back on him when CoM was never more than half a length ahead of him at any time. I agree with Figgis that Ryan Moore does not ride this race well. He ties to make up ground in the hottest part of the race and uses up too much energy doing so.

Cracksman was given a perfect ride by Dettori, had CoM been given the exact same ride I think he would have won. He would have been asked to deliver his effort slightly later and not use up his energy making up ground on horses being asked to quicken. Moore needs to watch how Piggott used to ride this race.

As for the future, the biggest factor for these young horses is how they come out of this race and how much improvement they have to come. That is impossible to predict so I wouldn't have a strong view about which of the first four will be best in future and I certainly would not back the winner at a short price to confirm his superiority.

Douglas Macarthur ran an amazing race to be beaten less than 5 lengths considering he and The Anvil went off so fast they were largely ignored by the rest. He has had a very hard race and may never recover his best form, but hopefully not.