Horse Antepost
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 72 comments are related to the topic:
GOLDEN HORN 5/1 ARC
GOLDEN HORN 5/1 ARC
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 72
|
By:
The Irish Champion may not have been a particularly exceptional time or last few fractions but the races that preceded it suggested it was fairly soft ground. None of the other races were run anywhere near to standard apart from the last two races.
|
|
By:
Fallen Angel
The Irish Champion was run just 2.91 secs outside standard i.e +0.29 secs slow pf. I can't have that as SOFT ground. Top Speed rated the winner as just 97 so I'm being very generous in giving him 116. If 97 is a better rating than mine then it was a poor time indeed for a G1. |
|
By:
i would argue it doesn't make any sense that all the other races were run at a dawdle. the 16 runner handicap over 1m 6f was run at 7 secs slower than standard, the mile race with 9 runners ran 6.49 seconds slower, only the 1m 4f race might have had an excuse that it was a small field. These wasn't some run of the mill races at Leopardstown where the quality of the field might dictate a poor time these were a G3 and a handicap worth £69k.
|
|
By:
You'd also have to rate the 7yo handicapper as something special in the final race if you want to rate the Irish Champion as top class.
|
|
By:
Not a great draw in 14
|
|
By:
Not sure I see the draw as a huge negative as Golden Horn's best performance in my eyes was held up off a strong pace in the Derby. I think they have have been forced to make the running more often than they would have liked in the last couple of races. My wider concern would be the pace angle and whether we were going to see a true end to end gallop. That being said at least the rain is likely to stay away and this might well be the best ground the horse has encountered since the Eclipse.
|
|
By:
well just gone through the field and really the pace in the race is only guaranteed from 2 horses and thats if they want to make the pace?
one is obviously the pace maker shahah drawn in stall 1 and the other is golden horn who like figgis alludes to, is supposed to be held up in this race... so are we guaranteed a muddling pace like we saw in 2013 when leading light should of been taken to the lead but missed the kick, leading to a lot of hard luck stories which we also saw last year, with the pacemaker just being a moderate horse unable to make it a fast run affair leading to any number of runners bunching and having to come in the other county to make there challenge in the straight, with of course treve coming up the golden highway rail after a perfect trip will gosden who should of at least given jack hobbs an entry for the draw, going to end up regretting his non sporting decision, we will see, one thing for sure is golden horn will have to do it the hard way imo or risk being a hostage to fortune if the pace in the race doesn't end up as connections may have wished...we will see i'm not bitter about jack hobbs by the way, just sick |
|
By:
fallen angel says golden horns best performances come off a strong pace . which is the opposite of the arc , they race for position then hold it up and then sprint in the turn . it wont be a fair fight so to speak . there will be four or five horses that get the run of the race . one of them will win it ,unless something has stones in hand to usurp them . that his how the arc plays out
|
|
By:
Very well done Iris. A class animal given an inspirational ride by Frankie.
|
|
By:
No jockey could win that race unless you had vast experience of the track... and decades of experience went into that ride ... well done Frankie master class ... also not many horses are good enough to execute that finish.... it was great to watch
What was a more racing certainty (for me) was Treve would not win - couldn't believe how big the Treve bandwagon was... but the most bitter pill was Postponed not turning up I thought - he was a real Arc contender and he did perform better in the trials... Hope his connections will reflect on that. |
|
By:
Thanks Facts!
|
|
By:
Well done, Iris.
|
|
By:
annoyed that I ended up covering all these non-stayers like New bay, when should have won a lot more on Golden Horn.
|
|
By:
You deserve a big one Iris for always putting your neck on the line, so very well done. Your idea that Treve had no chance was something but after dick head Pricewise tipped the mare it was a certainty that she would lose, if only I was a layer. As a backer of Never Can Tell in the 2011 Cesarewitch ( I had 8 arrows that year- a 1/4 of the field amazingly ante-post, and posted on here!), I thought that was one of Frankie's best ever rides but today's ride on Golden Horn was exceptional. Well done again Iris. Kind regards.
|
|
By:
Thanks Madhu - sometimes you have to avoid the loud noise you get when you hear about a horse certain to win a race ... and (try) not to let it put you off... its really hard sometimes...
but yeah Never Can tell was interesting winner... as Frankie went through a phase in his career when you couldn't back him in big fields... and that was a turning point (to a degree), but this season his has proved his doubters wrong on more than one occasion... and GH is the icing on the cake. |
|
By:
yes well done Iris...
but with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it becoming obvious now that a good derby winner is going to be very hard to beat in the arc? I'm thinking this fellow, sea the stars and workforce in recent years... just different gravy to most of the slow middle distance horses that line up in the arc year after year. |
|
By:
Always great reading your selections Iris and the rest of you guys who make these threads. I did not have a bet in the race but GH has been underrated all season including by me. Great ride by Dettori.
|
|
By:
Hi Lewisham Thanks ...you would think so but you have to go back in history, the Derby was renowned for taking it out of horses - quite a few could never bring their A game come October... It had to be a special horse to maintain the form - horses were specifically trained for the Arc and generally you favour those... When you look at the stats in the last 10 years like you said...
Golden Horn, Workforce and Sea the stars... skew it to make it a misleading stat... as you have to consider the quality of the horse, not just the race it has run... In my opinion Sea The Start and Golden Horn are the most outstanding winners of the Derby, Id put them there with the all time greats ... For GH his last 2 runs were no near the level to win an Arc - but clearly it was the ground... that was the conundrum for punters.. and with such a strong favourite.. and New Bay (French Derby winner)... For me you are either in one of the 3 camps... But I don't think its finished for GH... Incidently, the rule I usually use to find an Arc winner is French horse first than everything else second... but some times an exceptional horse comes along and pulls that start apart. Unless GH turns up next year ill be following the French horses for the Arc next year ... |
|
By:
Well done to all GH backers, well deserved. I also hope you chose to have another reback when he drifted out to 13/2 when the draw was made!
Am I correct in saying in Frankie's last 2 Arc wins, both have come from stall 15? |
|
By:
Yeah draw was a concern so often in this type of race ... But didn't put me off backing at 7s on the day ...I think ground was more the key it was riding fast which bodes confidence... If it was raining don't think I would have gone in again... As owner said he would beat Treve on fast ground... And was bullish about it... And he did.
|
|
By:
Also it's more about Frankies knowledge of the track - he knew where to place his horse he went wide off line to avoid interference and went inside to get best position early and then set pace to the race... That's the way to play wide at longchamp...
Not many jockeys could get that right without understanding the track ...horse and French stewards bias...takes a lot of bottle to execute that in such a big race. |
|
By:
Sounds like they are strongly considering the Breeders Cup, hope its not too much but would love GH to go as a final run. He owe's them nothing now and not sure that the BC turf would enhance his reputation at all but it would be quite a haul if he managed to win Derby, Eclipse, Arc and BC.
|
|
By:
Personally,would like them to swerve breeders cup.
As said nothing to gain beating up same horses in arc and weak usa turf horses. Normally its good to see connections running top horses and not retiring them early. However think horn has nothing left to prove,and decsion to retire end of season already made. Dancing brave similar case and although it didn;t seem to dent his reputation,injury could occur after long european season. |
|
By:
@ribotman yeah I would tend to agree, although I would am tempted to say I would love a fully tuned up Golden Horn turning up and decimating whatever is put in front of him, knowing it will be lightening quick ground just to put an exclamation mark on at the end. I watched the Arc a couple more times today and the other horses come at him and he just extends again, its like he gives them an opening and then slams the door. Although it could just be the camera angle
 |
|
By:
Fallen angel,1st time i've placed money on gh,in arc due to ground.
Wasnt prepared for speed he showed last furlong and half,noticed on replay frankie hardly touched him last furlong-great horse. |
|
By:
WD Iris. Agree Frankie gave him a peach of a ride also.
|
|
By:
I think when you have won the Derby and Arc... you have absolutely nothing to lose and go to the Breeders Cup...
As for too many hard races... some could argue it took its toll on him to win the Arc the way he did ... but when you look at the ease he won ... I think there is a battle left in him... |
|
By:
Dancing Brave went to the BC with more confidence than will GH. He still got turned over. Unfortunately, no-one will no whether he has a race left in him until they try.
|
|
By:
Dancing Brave never won going right handed but Golden Horn has a few times. Maybe irrelevant.
|
|
By:
Correction never won going left handed.
|
|
By:
I have to be honest, with a lot of European horses heading the market - surely home team has nothing much to offer this season.. so will be a known quantity for connections in terms of what opposition they will get.
|
|
By:
well he's going to spend the next 20 years of his life eating grass in a field and shagging mares, so why not go to the breeders cup with him. what have you got to lose
|
|
By:
Only thing I'd add regarding Dancing Brave was that the Harwood stable blamed the heat on Dancing Brave's performance in the Breeders's Cup. From memory I think it was in California and they reported that the horse lost a lot of weight due to the weather. Kentucky is much cooler.
A good thread this - as an occasional visitor from the football threads, it's refreshing to hear differing opinions aired in a civilised and convivial environment. |