Christmas Hurdle - Faugheen

I think he has a lot to prove over 2miles, just a shame TNO is not lining up at xmas.

Looks a walkover for Faugheen and that is why he running there.

Definitely a shame TNO not there. However I think Irving may give him more of a race then some people think.

is OP fishing??


it will be a surprise if Irvine gets near it never mind quickens past it 

faugheen takes it up at the 3rd or 4th hurdle and doesn't see another rival

dont forget the forum will then slag off STD.

I will believe Faugheen is the real deal once it has beaten a decent 2 miler. Ploughing through hurdles and beating stayers is a different proposition to beating The New One at Chelt.....

Flashy hopefully you'll be laying Faugheen all day on Friday to make a decent price for the rest of us.

Not at all....but backing horses at 2/5 is certainly not my thing.

Anybody who doubts Faugheen ability to quicken in a 2 mile race obviously didn't watch him on his seasonal debut. The race was run at an absolute crawl and yet he showed an absolute dream turn of foot whilst still in 2nd gear. We know he stays further, he's jumped better at 2 mile pace.

I love The New One, but Faugheen could prove to be an absolute monster; possibly the greatest hurdler ever. Willie Mullins himself has said he's stunned by how good he's become.

Greatest hurdler ever

faugheen is a stunning horse which explains why the best 2mile hurdler in britain is running scared of him, pathetic cowardice from  twister keeping his "champion" away from grade 1 company and winning garbage non-contests instead.

if the authorities in britain had any integrity they would ban tno from the champion hurdle to teach  young nigel a lesson for showing contempt to race fans who want to see the best race against the best, nobody likes a ducker

bit extreme, banning nigel for playing the game

the authorities in britain cause problems like this

if the authorities wanted horses to take each other on, they wouldn't have created a new race worth £60k to the winner (more prize money than the christmas hurdle) at haydock in a packed december which allows trainers to pick up easy money and dodge rivals

last season the new one ran in the international and the christmas hurdle, he was beaten at kempton and now he doesn't have to risk going there because a new race popped up for him

running scared

Spot on Tucho. The graded hurdling calendar is bizarre. I actually reckon that Irving will put up more of a fight than most seem to be expecting, but finish second.

ThunderRoad • December 21, 2014 12:29 AM GMT
Anybody who doubts Faugheen ability to quicken in a 2 mile race obviously didn't watch him on his seasonal debut. The race was run at an absolute crawl and yet he showed an absolute dream turn of foot whilst still in 2nd gear. We know he stays further, he's jumped better at 2 mile pace.

I love The New One, but Faugheen could prove to be an absolute monster; possibly the greatest hurdler ever. Willie Mullins himself has said he's stunned by how good he's become.


Greatest hurdler ever.....ffs

Talk of running scared etc is just plain ridiculous. Trainers talk to each other and then decide running plans.
On the day of the Haydock race,Faugheen ran at Ascot over 2 and a halfm, he could have taken on TNO at Haydock over the CHurdle distance.They both wanted to win so Faugheen goes to Ascot,TNO Haydock.
Its that simple.
As for TNO not running in Xmas hurdle....hes had 3 runs already!!

and would had in been within 3 weeks of his last run ?

4/9 doesn't float the boat on the quickest 2 mile track in the country...a track like Cheltenham will obviously plays to his strengths a lot better so if he trounces Irving he probably wins in March.

faugheen is no flakey dove yet

Hendo taking his out of the ladbroke for this (when the ground wasn't all that bad) suggests they think he's better than a handicapper. If I was to oppose Faugheen I'd be going in that direction rather than Irving I think...

NTD is one of the more open/honest trainers about his horses and targets. Henderson, Mullins etc should be more like him.

Don't know what's worse, the fact you've questioned Faugheen's ability or the fact you've actually said you wouldn't be surprised to see Irving quicken past him. I'll let you away with it though, I remember the night I had my first beer. For the record, do you consider Irving to be a top 2 miler? If so, I look forward to never seeing the words "Faugheen has never beaten a top 2 miler" ever again.

Benjy, the reason for that is because Nigel Twisted Davies only has one horse people actually care about. Especially compared to Henderson and Mullins.

Who's that aimed at Patter?

think it was to the OP sint

Thanks for letting me get away with it Paterson ....haha

By the time of your post, were you having your first beer?

Looks like some of that beer missed his mouth as he is clearly wet behind the ears.

I've laid this. He probably will win and is probably priced about right but this is the first time he will be up against a speedster from the flat that is improving with every run over hurdles (Irving) also, how good is SoaV really? Shown something for Hendo to send him here instead of running in the lad-broke imo.

Lay   
Backer's
Odds
Backer's
Stake
Payout
Liability
Faugheen    1.48    £101.33    £48.24
    £101.33   

Posting my bet in case anyone wants to try and crab me.

ntd looking after his horse-explained why he is ducking this.

Sgt reckless is 10 times the price of irving yet beat it 3 1/2 lengths in supreme

Not his real showing though was it alleged..

just think its way overpriced sint

well going on the supreme the prices are way out....3 times the price??

By the way whats Sgt Reckless doing in the race anyway? thought he was a chaser now.

well going on the supreme the prices are way out....3 times the price??

By the way whats Sgt Reckless doing in the race anyway? thought he was a chaser now.

oops!!

W/O Faugheen market could be interesting here.

Agree with Flashy. Irving underestimated here.

Mr Mullins has made some indifferent comments about his two champions, Not sure he knows which is the best?, Vautour  Broke every horse including Irving at Cheltenham, Mullins comments at the time suggested he thought Vautour much the best of his team, the form book at the time would have suggested the opposite,and now the confusing entries would seem to agree with the form book? I prefer Vautour, but not sure what will be his best trip? Dessie won a king george, but was a Champion chaser(supreme), sometimes they confuse their own team,Faugheen is great and the odds reflect the obvious chance,but how good is Vautour?????

The New One,is proven on quicker ground,but continues with his jumping errors that plague him,he deserves to be fav for a  Champion hurdle,but those who back him will always be nervous. Pitt Zigg is another who may improve further.?

I don't follow you John. You keep switching between chasers and hurdlers. Are you just speculating about which of the Mullins horses has the better chance at the Festival? I would personally much rather be on Vautour in whichever of the races he competes in. As for which on is better at 2m over hurdles at Cheltenham, we'll never know; I was very taken by Vautour's Supreme, but connections seem to think Faugheen has the better CH chance.

Trying to solve with winner of races is confusing enough with switching between hurdlers & chasers Mj.

*without

I'm keen on Irving here, good ground track suits. I'd take him e/w and w/o faugheen

UNLEASH THE MONSTER

AC Stafford

  I was speculating and trying to understand the thoughts of the trainer,He clearly made suggestions that Vautour was the most impressive at last years festival, the Jossies Hill form line  from the NHF flat race is outstanding for Fauheen but Faugheen definitely stays,I for one am very confused by it all!

I love horses like this they give you better value on the other runners. Certainties are a myth in national hunt.

I really rate Faugheen would be very disapointed if he got beat Friday

The clock says that Faugheen is vulnerable so I have place layed it. Cannot do much damage at 1/5 and perfectly happy to be proved wrong.

Blue Heron could outrun his odds,small field the negative.(place bet that is?)

Irving could touch 7/1 soon (BF). I reckon he's already value at 13/2. Faugheen's a worthy fav
but you have to think Irving and Purple Bay look attractive at the current prices.

Irving w/o Faugheen 6/4 and also e/w 6/1 is a play. Speed horse on a track that suits.

ground plenty fast enough for irving am happy to back the good horse sign of a victory to upset all here

Dec 20, 2014 -- 8:09PM, Glossy wrote:

Greatest hurdler ever

Don't say you weren't warned.

Irving pulled up...anyone know why?

Couldnt keep up from what i could see.

ruby typically saying nothing after the race...answering questions such as 'where would you rank faugheen at this stage of his career in terms of 2m hurdlers you've ridden', with, 'well he has 3 G1s and Hurricane Fly 22'...is just annoying.

Irving was struggling from a long way out, looked like the pace was very hot... which makes the win even the more impressive!

Ah there was definitely something wrong with Irving. He was pulled up before Heron Bay had come off the bridle. That's more than not being able to keep up.

I think when everyone reflects on Faugheen's win, which was more than impressive, there will still be a few questions about the form.

I suppose he's doing everything that's asked of him really but he still has Jezki, The New One and Hurricane Fly to beat. When he beats those, nobody can question him.

Bigger challenges lie down the road. If you were not on already, then I wouldn't be taking short odds about him beating the above trio.

If we get much quicker ground at Cheltenham,combined with jumping errors ,which were again apparent today,then the form of today is worth little.Other form-lines may well get interested.This horses is fantastic and versatile,but no ARKLE! No where near.

Tactically come the hour,they will be forced to go early to make it a test,if ground comes up quick? that will not be easy,with plenty lurking for a late challenge.EVENS you must be mad.

not so sure about that soyouthink...there's two races now where a strong pace has been set from the start and irving has fallen to peices, the supreme and today. he ran a similar race in the supreme.

i dont think purple bay is a 161 horse but he has still beaten him as he liked by 8 lengths making a hash of the last, at a track which wasnt expected to suit a horse that can stay much further. at chelenham he'll be different gravy. TNO has a good cruising speed but only quickens once. Walsh v STD?

He would only need to quicken once tbf.

Irving is probably just overrated based on the evidence now.

Totally agree about Irving, looks like he is a bit soft.

Not sure how Purple Bay became a 161 rated horse after winning a summer handicap race at Market Rasen and then a handicap at Wincanton, most bizarre.

FAUGHEENS have been running since time began  .


LAY THEM ALL

i was there today he looks a very good horse to me id have him money on for the champion - finishes his races so well

agree with sonko though 161 purple  bay

Zealot I'm not that certain that we have seen too many Faugheens tbf. He's unbeaten after 8 runs, including 3 grade ones, without breaking sweat on all going types over varying distances. I believe his Punchestown win was particularly good considering the jockey spent the last furlong hugging him.

The engine is OK,but the jumping?

irving found to have infection (puss) in hoof....

Apart from the last which he met all wrong yesterday, what was it you did not like about his jumping Metro? I thought he was very good in the hurdling department yesterday.

shocker, another issue with a nicholls horse after it was stuffed

agree with Brandy , thought it jumped well when chasing the pace ,only mistake was the last when the race was already won , that thing will power up the hill , those that have some nice prices gl to you

I don't suppose it will be any surprise to those who have studied the Cheltenham races but at the time I did look at his speed from, I think, when they joined the course at the same time as the champion field and timed it till the line and he ran the distance in pretty much the same time as the champion the day before. Maybe irrelevant. To me very relevant. The last time I was that taken by the clock was Denman at Newbury on the same card as Kauto. This suggested to me that he was possessed of a lot of speed and that the horse which went with him for a long way until tiring (Coe Harden) was also a better horse than he seemed to show that day.

Irving was beat before half way so clearly something was amiss. That left Faugheen with very little to beat and I'd still like to see him win against a top 2 miler. Would be great to see him in the Irish Champion but guess that will depend on how Hurricane Fly gets on at Leopardstown on Monday. I'd probably expect Faugheen to go straight to Cheltenham now or run in another egg and spoon race (Red Mills trial perhaps?) where he's 1/8 or similar.

At this stage I'd still just prefer to have Jezki and The New One at 6/4 combined than 6/4 Faugheen, but he may well muller them.

A bit surprising to me that the general concensus is less favourable that it might have been.

I think Mullins has been genuinely surprised by the improvement of Faugheen, and very impressed as well.

The overall form of the Xmas hurdle is okay for knocking I suppose, but it was the style of performances that was so very taking.

He seems to travel so well. Although there was a good pace he has not trouble at all going with it and then quickened very smartly. I think the only thing that can beat him in the Champion is injury or a fall/serious error.

The going on the first day of Cheltenham is never allowed to be faster then good to soft ( a scandal but a fact). He has fantastic speed, stays 3 miles, and I think is jumping better every race. He can go from the front if there is no pace, but does not sulk if he has to sit in behind. He would seem to have no obvios weakness and although obviously top class is still unexposed as he just wins easy.
He is acused of not being Arkle. Well that applies in terms of merit to every horse running over the sticks since the 1960s. He just might be the best hurdler since the great Night Nurse though - he really does look very good índeed to me.

SoYouThink • December 26, 2014 7:00 PM GMT
Ah there was definitely something wrong with Irving. He was pulled up before Heron Bay had come off the bridle. That's more than not being able to keep up.

I think when everyone reflects on Faugheen's win, which was more than impressive, there will still be a few questions about the form.

I suppose he's doing everything that's asked of him really but he still has Jezki, The New One and Hurricane Fly to beat. When he beats those, nobody can question him.

Bigger challenges lie down the road. If you were not on already, then I wouldn't be taking short odds about him beating the above trio.

I'M NOT QUESTIONING THE FORM HORSE WON 8 OR 9 ON BOUNCE AND YOU WANT TO PICK HOLES IN THE FORM WHEN HE WON BY LENGTHS.

Sometimes it's enough to sit back, pour a nice single malt and luxuriate in something special. That's enough for me. I'm a huge fan of Jezki at Cheltenham in March and to beat that one Faugheen will have to go some. I hope we can see a new superstar crowned in March and I expect this will be the case.

I suspect there is very little between TNO and Faugheen. TNO will stalk Faugheen who in my opinion will have to attempt to stretch his rivals 3 out perhaps. I can just see TNO ready to pounce and gaining going towards the last flight. It will turn into a scrap up that hill, i really can`t call it.

Hope they all get there in one piece, it promises to be the best champion hurdle in my lifetime from a rating position, I have faugheen on 176, whichever way it goes or whoever beats who? the rating will be massive.

Something we have not touched on is , will Vautour now go for the Champion Hurdle if fit?

No chance of Vautour running against Faugheenin Champion Hurdle ,only if Faugheen has setback they may consider Vautour.

I would imagine Vautour on easy list for 6 weeks+, accurate jumper with pace, a training no brainer, still young, always next year?

Can't think of a better pace maker?

lol metro.

Is anyone able to shed any light on the sectional times of the Christmas Hurdle? Looked not only like a very good pace but Faugheen to my eye seemed to quicken up very smartly from the last on top of it. Would love to see some scientific breakdown, decent horses in behind simply couldn't hack it.

Lets watch the Racing post Novice Chase Grade 1 and see if us armchair punters can solve the problem

http://youtu.be/5o_kBWmcYgM.


Never really travelling or dominant throughout the race, looked a little underweight to me, possibly winded but obviously making no noises? else jockey would have pulled up.
Possibly damaged a muscle? either way if he was mine he would have plenty of time off and in no way could I envision him going to Cheltenham chasing in 16+ weeks

His season is finished!

Vautour on his chasing debut, notice dominant style and all in all a different horse, so possibly sometyhing deeper being the problem?

http://youtu.be/nm5KO5ega3I

Now back on subject, Faugheen beating Purple Bay who may well be an improving sort but beaten on 9 occasions of his 14 efforts and rated on the official high side on that evidence(non systematic method), Nickys have obviously had problems this season,and this run should be ignored, you could argue Faugheen was beating trees, in a very good fashion.