Kingman Steaming

got a sore throat


Kingman's planned outing in the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes at Ascot next month is in jeaopardy due to a throat infection.

The John Gosden-trained miler has swept all before him since finishing second in the QIPCO 2000 Guineas, most recently winning the Prix Jacques le Marois at Deauville, his fourth Group One success of the season.

However, speaking at Longchamp, Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to owner Khalid Abdullah, said: "Kingman has a throat infection, which was discovered on Saturday. I have spoken with Prince Khalid.

"Obviously it is less than ideal for a preparation going into a big race, but it (QEII) is still a month away.

"We would be hopeful of still getting him to the QEII, but it is far from certain.

"You know when you have a sore throat, how long does it take to go? Sometimes it is quick, sometimes it's not. I cannot put a time on it.

"We would want to be sure that the horse is 100 per cent fit before we do anything, and then we can make a decision on his immediate future and also on his whole future.

"But at the moment, the main aim is the QEII. If he doesn't make that then we still have the option of the Breeders' Cup.

"And again, that would not precipitate a decision on his future either."

Bookmakers Sky Bet suspended their betting on the race, for which Kingman had been the hot favourite. "Until we get a clearer idea as to how much the horse's preparation has been affected, we can't do anything else," said spokesman Michael Shiners.

kingman retired .

Somebody managed to hoover up a few pounds at 10.5.

I am pig sick although I have had a nice few quid on another possible runner in the QE11 I would much rather he ran. Looks like an Autumn fest of hype to come.

Brig, Kingman and Australia will not meet ever. My pants are safe again.

Spot on Felt. I never allowed for the lack of courage in the Abdullah camp. Silly me. I can see the hype coming. I will have to suffer the Kingman hype but if Oz now runs in the QE11 and wins, although I will benefit financially, the torrent of hype will be intolerable.

Gutted he's been retired. At least he raced abroad though, something Frankel never did.

underated horse imo

Nothing left for Kingman  to prove so why blot he copybook is the thinking i guess, great shame for the day it's self ,  but may lure in Australia if the ground is reasonably firm , clash with Toronado would be interesting in those circumstances .

Well I feel a good decision,it's been a fantastic year for the John Gosden camp,some signs that some may need a rest? they've been on the go since season start and in Kingmans case he achieved all that could be expected,no over hype,just the blip in the guineas,which does in a way expose the uk milers at that point,he improved for sure once they learned to hold him that bit longer,and I feel almost sure with those tactics
Australia would not have had the speed reaction needed,but it will be forever a talking point. Good bye Kingman have a happy retirement

I don't think Kingman has nothing left to prove he has won 4 Group 1 races beating Shifting Power, Night of Thunder, Toronado and Anodin. In my opinion the QE11 was his defining moment. The race looked likely to be strongly supported and there was the distinct possibility Australia was going to be there. This is the only race JOB can do the weight in. I backed Australia accordingly but even if he wins all we will hear is who is the best horse. These points should be sorted out on the racecourse not in the press.

The mile form not great brigust,Australia visually struggles for 3-4 strides to quicken up over further than the mile,Kingman did prove himself for his ability against those around,you could not be at all confident about any of our milers running winning  that distance in America,

Understandable for him to be put away for the season but a real shame he's been retired - a sense of potential unfulfilled - there is a good programme for older horses as milers. IMO not many milers in recent years could have lived with him. Australia still won't be running in the QEII.

Just look at the Guineas ,Derby winners,paceless is the thought that passes through my mind  about the guineas(full of stayers)

I wonder if their recent experience with Tapestry might make Ballydoyle/Coolmore think twice about dropping Australia back to a mile? - though I accept in that case it may simply have been a matter of trying to back up too quickly after her Yorkshire Oaks exertions.

On the other hand, a run in the QEII may negate the perceived disadvantage of softer ground for Oz (if it is softer by the time Champions Day comes around) and allow him to use his stamina to good effect in the mile race.

Re. Kingman, I understand and respect the decision but I'm not sure that it's been adequately explained as to why a throat infection 6 weeks before the race rules him out.Is it a case of the antibiotics not leaving his system in time? Or more likely they just don't want to bust a gut to run in a race where they don't see too much to gain in beating the same horse again for the most part?

same horses, not horse...

Not that I think there is much chance of this happening but if Australia were to hand out a real beating to Toronado et al noone could seriously use this as a point to promote Kingman.

What was the last Abdullah horse from Europe to run in America?

Horses who can switch up and down to/from 12f and 8f and whin Group 1 races are virtually unheard of in flat racing. Australia is no Brigadier Gerard.

midday off the top of my head and sure theres more

cheers alleged ,mind blank here,not sure Abdullah likes to go,Frankel?

Teddy Grimthorpe must be under instructions not to take any chances. Hence we have Frankel retiring with his career partially unfulfilled (I know some would disagree about that) and now Kingman. The press hype these horses up so much the connections fear they have too much to lose by running any kind of risk.
I think I am on pretty solid ground by saying the Coolmore hype is sometimes intolerable but if Australia does win the QE11 then there will be a direct competition to the Banstead Manor Stud horses. And I suggest Coolmore will feel they hold the aces. Race the horses against each other ffs.
If you owned Australia would you run in what looks a weak QE11 or what looks like being a pretty strong Champion Stakes? Plus they have ROTW in the Champion Stakes.
Midday won over a mile as a 2 year old. Never stepped back to a mile afterwards.

I would agree with the this point on frankel,and it was a sad loss too racing fans worldwide that frankel never made the trip,again a case of money and reputation being the most important thing for the racing manager.

Coolmore did try it with Cape Blanco who won the Irish Derby they ran him in the Queen Anne Stakes but he was beaten miles. Not sure that was Jamie Spencer's finest hour that day mind.

sea moon another mj

Australia got nothing to prove in the UK ,everything to prove abroad,and think he is capable to do himself jusice in America at 10f Plus,but i have a nasty feeling we may have seen the last of him already.

cheers alleged

Again Sea Moon won over a mile as a 2 year old. When dropped back to a mile afterwards he finished 12th of 14 and 8th of 8. Horses who win over a mile as a 2 year old aren't necessarily milers. If you know what I mean?

The point All is stepping back to a mile after winning at 12 furlongs. Can Oz do it? Coolmore have been ramping the idea for months.

Brig I think they are talking about Juddmonte horses who have run in the Breeders Cup. I think the experience with Dancing Brave put them off sending their very best.

What was the last Abdullah horse from Europe to run in America?


just responding to this post brig


my old fav twice over is another

Tight tracks, change of climate, running against doped horses, the travelling involved - everything favours the home team.

Horses who win over a mile as a 2 year old aren't necessarily milers. If you know what I mean?


frankel

Again Sea Moon won over a mile as a 2 year old. When dropped back to a mile afterwards he finished 12th of 14 and 8th of 8.


he never ran again over a mile brig

That's true All but when as a 3 year old they stepped Twice Over up in trip he was dropped back 4 times and was beaten every time. I think Henry/Teddy was particularly cowardly about Twice Over. They ran him 26 times over 10 furlongs and never once over 12f. He won over 10f as a 2 year old ffs. I know winning is the aim but I think he was the perfect candidate for 12 furlongs. They ran him on the AW at Meydan and in the Breeders Cup while I thought the Breeders Cup turf would be a good race for him. Frankel never stepped back in trip after his 2 year old days did he?

He, Sea Moon, did in Australia All. Flemington Group 1 12th of 14 and Flemington Group 2 8th of 8.

sorry brig but he stepped back in trip and won the craven

He, Sea Moon, did in Australia All. Flemington Group 1 12th of 14 and Flemington Group 2 8th of 8.


sorry you are indeed correct

they travelled Workforce over there but pulled him out of the race a day before due to firm ground.

Dundonnell raced in a 2yo race too. He does send them over if suitable.

He, Sea Moon, did in Australia All. Flemington Group 1 12th of 14 and Flemington Group 2 8th of 8.


crazy aussies running a horse with stamina stamped all over the pedigree over a mile

Aren't we trying to find a Gr1 12f winner who dropped back to win a Gr1 mile race? Just out of interest before Oz does it.

It was tried with Helissio think he finished second in the Moulin.

Falbrav

Two really good horses there. Well done F. My hopes are rising.

Not convinced the Australia camp would want to take on an held up Charm Spirit,too risky the chance of defeat?

Starcraft

Worst case scenario is if one or two more horses go by the wayside and Aus has nothing but Group 3 horses to beat. I hope sincerely hope there is one top class miler in the race to make it a proper challenge.

Would hope the same, sint, but the better Gp1 milers don't look to be in the best form going into the race. I'd still be surprised if Coolmore choose the QE2 option in spite of it looking a much easier opportunity than the Champion Stakes. Swerving the race while Kingman was around but then suddenly switching now he's an absentee would be fooling nobody.

In their, Coolmore, defence they said some time ago they would like to take Kingman on again over a mile so although his absence may sway them it has been mooted before.

Just playing around with some official ratings and I did notice that officially Australia only improved 10 lb since his first start this year,the major expected improvement from 2-3 never really happened? The Grey Gatsby improved 16 lb from first start this year,reflected in his form,Australia still got plenty to prove,and not just at the mile.

I think it would be almost suicide to risk Australia at the mile, he is bred to stay ,that is what he gives the impression he is(Derby wins),and he idols in-front.

Bring on the NH horses, i am finding the whole flat classic brigade ducking and diving tedious. Bunch of price of sperm protecting bores.

^^brilliantly accurate. So frustrating.

I think the only way Coolmore could switch to the QE2 without looking like they've crapped out of the tougher option would be if it came up soft at Ascot. They could say the soft ground would place too much emphasis on stamina, Australia's all speed, blah, blah, plus the round course is usually softer than the straight.

less than £400 has been matched on Aus for the QEII and I suspect most of that was the sheep jumping in after the Kingman news.

Well I put my bets on the 22nd Aug, 24th Aug and 6th Sept. Thank you.

Have you backed Australia in the Champion Stakes as well Brig?

??

He's backed in the QE II , Arc, and Champion? Mental approach!

Hi Felt. No not a penny. Oz has really screwed me up this year. I hope I don't end up out of pocket. Lasy year I backed Australia to win the 2000 Gns, Derby and Arc. When he lost in the 2000 Gns I backed him continually for the Derby. Then I had this idea that as he was getting shorter for the Derby I would back him for the Arc thinking if he won the Derby I could lay off if necessary. He won the Derby putting me in front. I should have laid off then but I didn't. When AOB started making noises about dropping back in trip in was too late. I backed him for the Juddmonte and had just a small bet for the Irish Champion the price was too short and anyway before the Irish race I backed him for the QE11. I did think about laying Kingman instead but the profit/ridk margin was much better backing Australia. Me bet on him in the Arc looks lost so I have tried to cover it by backing alternatives as I have listed on the Arc thread.
It is as simple as that.

Sorry about the errors I'm using this damned ipad. The letters are so small.

It was easier back in the days Brig, 2000G, Derby, Eclipse/King George, Arc. There was a start and a finish to the top middle distance horses of that year.

A Derby winner not going for the Arc??

Oz could well miss out the lot over here if the ground turns soft (which is likely).
Could turn up at the B Cup in the turf more likely to get fast ground.

Shame that the best miler is off to stud (Kingman)
Was looking forward to seeing him sign off in style (QEII)

I'm gutted as I have an Ascot premier stand ticket and flights booked specifically to watch Kingman and Australia win the QEII and champion respectively

I'm still going and will have to rely on the latter winning the champion as I for one will be very surprised if he goes for the mile and he wouldn't be a good thing if he did. He certainly wouldn't have raced against Kingman in the race, irrespective of the A O'Brien blarney

Hi Andrew. Pretty sad news there will be no Kingman/Oz clash but I never really expected it, I just hoped. I do think there may a be chance he goes QE11 because with soft ground a possibility the straight course, with it's better drainage will not be as soft as the round course. I'm back in France mid to end of October for a stint so maybe I won't be missing much. I had intended to go to the Breeders Cup but work has gotten in the way. Not sure I will be missing much but who knows?

ah .. Brigust .. didn't u tell me that you doubted Aus over 1m ;) .. and I thought u were being serious :O

I don't remember doubting Australia over a mile. I backed him for the 2000 Gns and the QE11. I just think his best form is over 12 furlongs and, providing the ground was OK, he should be running in the Arc. AOB has confounded more than once I can tell you.

I think he will get his ground in the arc brig.

I do not know the watering policy at longchamp, im sure someone will enlighten us?

I think he will get his ground in the arc brig.

I do not know the watering policy at longchamp, im sure someone will enlighten us?

ay??? soz about the double post...

Wouldn't it be great if they grew some balls and ran him?
In the RP today Pietro Innocenzi wrote 'They should but they won't. I would have my biggest bet of the season if Ballydoyle took the bold and daring decision to run Australia in the Arc rather than the wet lettuce option of sending him to Ascot.' Absolutely spot on.

Sep 25, 2014 -- 5:06PM, alleged22 wrote:

I think he will get his ground in the arc brig.I do not know the watering policy at longchamp, im sure someone will enlighten us?

Listen, we have to see what the ground is like, he's all speed ..

But seriously, what do you expect ? He's got a big preference for fast ground, it's not 'wet lettuce' if it's a soft ground and he misses a rematch with TGG or NOT / Toronado because the BHA can't fit their Champs Day around the Arc..

They're already running last yr's Derby winner, and possibly though unlikely Gallante ..

and ofc it would be immensely exciting to see Australia run in the Arc, on good ground, which admittedly it looks like it will be .. but let's not get ahead just yet ...

who wouldn't want to see Australia vs Toronado and NoT etc... over 1m at Ascot ?? Though Michael Tabor did seem to laugh off the idea of going back to 1m, so, o.k. he races TGG and maybe ET .. and Free Eagle runs in the Arc ..

Aidan O'Brien did say "there's the 1m2 and the 1m race, the lads will obviously decide" .. it's quite obvious the Champ Stakes is his preference .. and w Ryan Moore likely on board .. Presumably Kingsbarns will go for the QE2, after all he was 3rd last year.

and if they leave it to Ascot and the ground is gone, he never runs again .. they've also said he has nothing left to prove .. excellent 3rd in the 2000, Dual Derby, International .. and with his breeding and action, could be unreal as a sire which is obv all they care about.

Do you really think Australia is all speed ffs? I've yet to see it. That's just hype in my opinion.

Be interesting to see how Outstrip runs today. I think the 8s looks a fair price for a horse stepping back in Grade having ran only in Gr1's in his last 5 races after beating The Grey Gatsby easily. I would have thought he would have the beating of Wanabee Yours and Hors Dr Combat. I don't mind having a nice bet on horses like this at this price because there is always a lay off in running chance or the clear possibility of recompense. The Hughes horse looks fairly sound as well but Penglai Pavilion could be the fly in the ointment at 12s on here at present. Could be a nice day, or not.

^Hughes in the following race I mean.

Sep 26, 2014 -- 2:42AM, brigust1 wrote:

Do you really think Australia is all speed ffs? I've yet to see it. That's just hype in my opinion.

no, i was only joking .. everything is about speed w A O'B .. in the Derby he obv came from off the pace and caught KH who had gotten a handy lead, and did it travelling beautifully.

Obv Joseph doesn't want to get off him, hence the QE2 comments, but Tabor did fairly rubbish the idea though that was when Kingman was in the frame .. So, would that change their mind .. I doubt it, but I'd love to see him race Toronado.

Though I don't see Ryan Moore contractually obliged to ride anything in the Champ Stks ... ??

I'm sure Ryan will keep his options open.
I've always thought Australia would beat Kingman over a mile. But the fact they are never going to meet means part of me would like to see possibility of more hype removed. I don't think Toronado is unbeatable by any means and Hughes ride in the Sussex should have been absolutely slaughtered but it wasn't. Not that I thought Toronado would win but he removed every possibility the moment they left the stalls. Financially I want Australia to run in the QE11 but the interest has more or less gone now.

hmm .. that's interesting !

I guess Hughesie was still in shock from the James Palace where they had gone fair clip and Kingman just destroyed NoT ... must have thought the only way to beat him was catch him sleeping ... and in fairness he did go odds-on in-running if I'm correct

But you're right, in that playing to Kingman's sprint speed is suicidal . James Doyle was wise in the PJM and if anything that's where they should have tried to stretch him, on heavy ground aswell.

Hi Brigust, sorry I missed your 11.09 post yesterday (busy Bee here)

I'm convinced Australia will be taking the champion route (not the QEII), it's his for the taking and he's the one I will be on. That aside, not seeing Kingman is a disappointment, but that's racing and I hope another of my favs, Sprinter Sacre will be raising the pulse in December

You are probably right Andrew. Trying to second guess trainers is a task all of it's own. Henderson has been making favourable sounds about SS so lets hope he meets Sire de Grugy along the way. Still some mileage in the flat season to go though. Take care and have a good Ascot.

and who do you think will ride Australia - I'm thinking Ryan Moore - but what if Michael Stoute supplemented one of Arab Spring, Cannock Chase or Hillstar ???

I have said for a long time Coolmore is bad for racing and if they aren't running Australia in either the Arc or the Champion stakes BECAUSE JOB cannot do the weight that proves my point. No wonder AOB was so disturbed after the Leopardstown defeat it never sank in until 4 am, the next day. The best laid plans of mice and Coolmore.

yeah Brigust, fair enough, but what about R Moore - is he stuck or could he choose Australia ? JOB won't be doing that weight again