*** Champion Stakes Ascot 19th Oct ***

I stand corrected Mac. But looking back, who knows?

I like to think and react on this forum as if I am standing in a pub with my mates. Stupid I know. I like to think I only say what I would to them in those circumstances.
For example: If a mate said he thought Farhh's Lockinge win was the best of the season I would quite easily say 'Are you mad?'. No insult intended and none would be taken. I certainly wouldn't then go on and say 'in his world' that I wouldn't do. Similarly if the are discussing a horses form I could easily say I would be raining on their parade.
Too many people on here insult too strongly and too personally and I suggest I may have crossed the line in the past. But if pointed out I like to think I have apologised.
My views are not everyone's views I can handle that but they are quite a few peoples views and I think I am representing them as best as I can. I make no apologies for that.

Hanigan will lead on Muckadram  and hope to slow it a little before the home turn  but getting the pace right on soft ground is very tricky , they could all be running in glue in the last furlong , i mean those running behins CDA

This just gets funnier, so you can question somebody's sanity and tell them to keep taking the medicine but if they reply you're in your own world then that's a step to far. F--- knows how you'd respond to a real insult

*too far

The home straight at Ascot will not be glue. It drains feely and will be good to soft I suggest.It has been laser levelled and steadily rises. Not sure yet about best place to be and Ascot has been notorious for wide margin winners.

If you don't under the difference between saying 'are you mad' and 'in your world'. Then that answers a lot of the questions Figgis.

I do, I just didn't see any mention of "are you mad" in your original post. Let's try to keep to those 'facts' you say you're so fond of

Brigust, you should probably learn how to read. Talking about moving the goalposts to suit your own game!

* Talk about

I think questioning someone's sanity is the same as saying are you mad. One you may write and the other you may say. The fact is Figgis I acknowledge the errors in my comments but you find that beneath you. Never mind.
Sin why don't you explain yourself then I can answer accordingly. After all I am probably one of the idiots you so eloquently refer to. Now you are someone I need to listen to obviously so I bow to your observance.

Pedro, it's the reported training setbacks in addition to the layoff that worries me a bit. Still believe he has a fine chance though.

Mick saying the jocks are reporting the ground as heavy....is flat heavy the same as jumps heavy

I'm pretty happy the way it looks, Morandi will love this stuff. It's just whether hes's good enough to beat some of these now!

An extremely slow time for the first on the round course but being a 2 mile race more evidence is needed.

16.09 slow

That ground looks near as slow as it was last year
Had a few £££ saver on Cirrus (2.88) as he will love that ground again 2day.
Would still prefer to see Farhh win tho, but not sure he wants the ground this testing over a stiff 10f.
Gd luck punters.

I think George slowed them up and saved some for the last 4 furlongs. Great ride but form looks weird.

rained all year last season ...cant be ground like that .

this is just holding ground ,not bottomless imo

I make the round course a fair bit softer than last year, we're getting into borderline heavy territory.

ye horrible stuff

have backed farrh but am seriously worried now

Yes, far from ideal, harry. With Farhh contracting in price there is the option of bailing out, but the way I look at it is I'd be more annoyed with myself for chickening out of a winning bet than letting it ride and getting beaten by the ground.

Shame about the ground again this year
This Oct date was a bad call for Champions Day & we are stuck with it now with the canny Ire free to have theirs in Sept from next year, clever play by them to give the Brits their support to have this Oct date, leaving them to snap up the Sept date, which is a better date all together imo. Well played the Paddys.

ye i know what your saying figg but the fillies race is worrying me...

they were treading water for 2 1/2f and got very tired so off the lay off i don't think it is ideal

Gives a good balance imo ...controversial but the best horses should be tried on all types of ground .

Frankel did not mind the going and it is true about a very good horse winning on all types of going .

This is going to be a test of stamina and with Morandi getting some weight off the older horses I've had another dabble at 10-1 EW.

The 3yr olds performed well in the QEII and Intello wasn't far behind Olympic Glory at Deauville so IMO Morandi has to have a squeak in this.

I have to say i think the derby winner in these conditions is a bet and have decided as much as i love farrh, off the lay i have to be mercionary and now have to move my position...hillstar should not be dismissed lightly and will save on him

i just feel this will be to much for a fresh horse and have to bale and will just cover on him now

a shame but sometimes you have to just chin it if he wins he wins

Really concerned  about the ground/trip combo for Farhh after watching the rest of the card so have now bottled it and laid off my bet - still make a profit if he wins though. Now hope Hillstar wins.

Yup, i think Hillstar is big e/w odds at 14.

Did me a favour two years ago, so sticking with CDA.

this race used to be one i avoided like the plague

its like kids in a sweety shop  stuff  ...

mon the fast snail ...

sake

WD figgis

well done farhh,backers even with the pulling hard he saw the trip out well

well done Figgis, Milleracing.

Brilliant use of the pacemaker by Godolphin and superb ride by SDS.

he's a good horse

I thought ROW was moral winner. But very happy with result.

wd to brigust as well, think he got the 1st 3 there

one word  gutsy

Ta lads.

I thought ROW was moral winner

Fantastic performance from Farhh and the other two. As uncle said, Godolphin used the pacemaker very well. Set it up nicely for him and he powered home.

Morandi never settled and was disappointing.

Well done winners.

Superb performance - pulled too hard early on but still won. Remember what Frankel did to this horse.

Yes I thought that keenness would cost him late on but he kept finding more.

moral

winner

brilliant tactics , brilliant win by  Farhh ,  the decision  not to go on with Muckadram  was a bit odd  and allowed the go dolphin tactics to prevail  with Farhh he was a deserved  winner .
ROTW  ran well for a three year old  particularly   after running in the Arc  just a couple of weeks
back

I wonder where that puts Treve in the scheme of things?

thatwas pleasing. A good team effort from Godolphin, and wd my fellow winners.

he really is special this fellow...really hope he stays in training...pulling in that ground and still finding...

a very worthy winner

I do think horses trained for specific races have the edge. Farhh and Cirrus trained for it while for ROW it was an after thought. Hope he stays in training to take Treve on again. In fact I hope all three stay in training will make for an interesting year. And perhaps Cirrus trainer was right all along.

yep lucky i am not an in running layer,as after a furlong i thought farhh cant win,funny old game.Opens up alot of doors for next season,cant wait.

Farrh would have won much easier if he'd settled further off the pace - Cirrus not quite what he was - ROTW an average derby winner

Could not disagree with that. Pacemaker in 4th.

Great training performance and once again we are left to marvel at the majesty of Frankel.

It's a pity Farhh had the injury as I'm sure he'd have easily won both the POW and the eclipse this year as they were poor renewals.

stevie throw in the judmonte

yes I'd forgotten that one

Success by association. Works for me. Are we saying Al Kazeem wasn't all they said. Was JG's comment that The Fugue would have won the Eclipse had she been well, correct? Surely not.

In the RP today Al Kazeem is down as, and I quote 'The world's highest rated 1m 2f specialist'. Are we saying this is hype?

Farhh's better at a mile IMO. The horse got the jockey out of trouble today - he ran far to free early on and his class got him home.

no just after today (and i had doubts beforehand) i have changed my mind,thought it was a top top class performance

i dont get your gosden comment 'arugement'as Farhh never lined up for the eclipse

There was a reference to running Farhh in the Eclipse won by Al Kazeem. JG said he thought she would have won the Eclipse but coughed. She then beat AK in Ireland.
We may actually be able to get an idea how good the likes of Nathaniel, So You Think et al were if today's top three stay in training. Camelot crew were unable to do that because they were so poor.

as predicted earlier in this thread brigust still not satisfied even when Farhh/Cirrus 1-2. Apparently they have to do it again next year FFS Farhh will be 6 and Cirrus 8 how long do they have to keep going?

Don't worry At. The 2012 form wasn't tested this year because Camelot's crew were a poor bunch. But now it can be fully tested providing they all stay in training. It can be tested at a mile by Olympic Gloy and Toronado, at 10f by Ruler of the World and Kingsbarns and at 12f by Treve. And then Australia and co will arrive on the scene. To name but a few.
All year you have said how good the form is now you can't back it up in reality. Bring it on. You are not afraid are you?

*Glory

*now you can back it up

Excellent performance from Farhh (trainer & jock).
Showed lots of class & guts to land the big race 2day.

The 2011 3yos have done everything asked of them. They dominated the older horses in 2011 then the 3yos in 2012 - hell the stragglers are still winning Group 1s aged 5. Nothing more to prove.

All year you have said how good the form is now you can't back it up in reality

You've completely lost the plot brigust.

And if they have nothing to prove then you have nothing to fear then have you? And it looks like they are all staying in training so next year looks exciting already.

That should have read 'now you can back it up in reality' AT.

Farhh retired.

Sensible thing to do I'm afraid. I can understand their point of view but it definitely reduces next seasons possibilities.

Still he will have Ruler of the World running for him.They are about the same horse. Maybe ROTW just a bit better.

i think frankel has something to do with his retirement, Farhh has a great cv.

ROW is paceless and cant wait for him to run on good or better ground.

think Kingsbarns is a more interesting proposition for Ballydoyle next year than ROTW.

Shades of SNA about his profile now.

what a monster they produced today and needed every drop of Juice the ground could offer to defy the formbook ,engineering masterclass.

some craic in the trainer post race ,like a runaway train ,,,thought he was gonna blow a gasket and explode .



salubrious  machine V old snail ....me bad .

How far would Treve have finished in front of those 3?

I think she would have loved the ground and the trip, probably better than the 3rd horse did. I'm pretty sure she would have won well. How well we won't know.

thanks for clearing that up Brigust.

Anything worthwhile to add Sin?

Yes, no doubt she was the 'moral winner'

very good horse, beautiful ride by de Sousa, very glad Dettori no longer riding for Godolphin as don't think he would have won on Farhh

The one time Coolmore could actually have done with a pacemaker or two (even if only to disrupt the oppositions pacemaker) is the one time they forego one.

Just pointing out that Treve beat Ruler of the World out of sight at Longchamp and I don't think the trip would have made any difference to her.

Shame we wont be seeing Farhh again on the track (Off to stud)
Suppose with all his injury probs it is the right call.
Gd to see him go out on a high with landing a top G1 over 10f to add to his G1 over 1mile.
A much needed big race win for the BoysNblue after a tough year for them.

Miller does it not bother you just a little that with the recent problems the boys in blue have had Farhh was aimed at the Lockinge successfully then aimed at the Champion Stakes successfully. Two races with a long break before and in between. I wouldn't bother so much had he been lined up for other races during the season but had to miss them but he was off nearly 6 months until the Champion and they hit the nail bang on the head both times.

bother, in what way?

bother, in what way?

Well Sin Farhh had leg problems. The recent Sungate steroid case was to do with horses with leg problems. Plus the obviously high profile Godolphin drug problems. Plus the fact you need a period of time out of training, plus you need a period of time to get the drugs out of your system, plus the accuracy targeting two races on a specific day 6 months apart. Plus the paddock 'well muscled up comments' how often do you hear that? 
For a horse to hit every one of the above targets bang on must surely raise some concerns? Had he missed one of the targets then fine but to hit them all, brilliant training.

Every one of the above targets? - it was only two races for heavens sake.

At least Farhh was trying to win , it those  Horses that  are often  held back in the lesser races which is the scourge of modern day  Horse racing imo , the handicappers are to blame  in many ways  because they impose   excessive penalties on winners  and even making the Frame in many top  Handicaps is  heavily penalised ...just what is wrong with a max penalty of seven pounds ?  If the Horse wins again easily,   put them up another seven , some very useful  three year olds  had their careers blighted this Flat Season  by  twelve pound penalties .The message from the Handicappers is  ,' don't show your talent because we will murder you  if you do '

then we expect the Jockey  to properly push a Horse out for a place   why would they  do that ??

Brig, Saeed Bin Surour is a class act and has been training for two decades over here. Farhh has a history of injury problems, too. You know that. Godolphin love nothing more than a winner at Royal Ascot. If Farrh had no set-back he would have been aimed at the Queen Anne.

I'm a Sheikh Mohammed fan actually Sin. I was just wondering why no-one has brought this up. Seems odd that's all. I'm still wondering why the BHA have withheld the Newmarket 11's names. There has to be a reason and a possible could be Farhh. Given the problems at the beginning of the season with Al Zarooni had a vet administered this Sungate stuff on Fathh, not impossible given it was used on leg injuries, then they may have agreed with Sheikh Mo to let it go. Just a thought.

Bit of a black rod fishing way to end a thread imo

For all the conspiracy theories going around I find it surprising this hasn't been brought up Miller. The BHA not releasing the name of the Newmarket 11, a well muscled Godolphin inmate wins the Lockinge then doesn't run for 6 months then wins the Champion Stakes. Considering lots of Godolphin races are run multi handed this was a spectacular piece of training.
What bugs me in the Newmarket 11. Why not release the names?  I suggest had they just been run of the mill trainers the information would be out there. No-one was at fault so why no names? We are being played like fools!

I think in the case of Farhh your putting 2&2 together & coming up with 7
Bit out of order with that imo END OF!!!

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I wonder what happened to Willing Foe, that was the other horse of Godolphins that won on Lockinge day showing improved form and not seen since.

i suspect there is a lot of covering up of failed drugs tests in sports generally - the authorities who run the sports have too much to lose to risk their product losing all credibility