The winner was a shock to me but on reflection not a complete washout for my opinions before the race. Kingman good but beatable and unlikely to finish worse than second, Shifting Power much underrated compared to others in the market. War Command and Kingston Hill not good enough, but not much good when my pick, Toormore, only just managed to finish ahead of those two and I must have overrated his National Stakes win.

well just watched the race a few times and as much as the front 3 looked good it still looks below real top class form...

shifting power puts some sort of angle on it and unless he improved dramatically it doesn't look a high class renewal as we all knew pre-race

kingman ran his race but just seem to idle when NOT wandered...james doyle may regret pulling him out to challenge as early as he did but really he can't have to much excuses, although on figures you would have to say he didn't perform to the same level as his greenham win and maybe bounced, although maybe he was plenty ready enough first time and the winner has improved but i doubt it...the winner is probably a 120 horse at this stage but class wise i would say the front 3 are just average group 1 horses...could be wrong

Thought it was a really good Guineas. Kingman just got outstayed ever so slightly in the end. Think the first three will turn out to be very good. As a race I do hate it when we have separate races being run in a classic. Luckily the result was pretty satisfactory but as a spectacle it is just awful.

As for the fourth holding the form down. I'd say he's improved for the mile and even if he doesn't turn out to be great there is always something at a big price running on at the end. Frankel beat Dubawi Gold. Sea The Stars beat Delegator. I'd say this was a v good guineas on my first impression.

Didn`t you see my post earlier. All green thankyou. The clock was on the ball,Kingman(clock horse)beaten by the horse Kingman beat in the Greenham.

sorry missed the post on NOT balancing your book dear feltfair...still your an honest guy like most on the betfair forum...still nice that you shared it with us!!

only on the wind up feltfair...

out of interest then, you didn't actually have a bet just greened up??

Why Kingston Hill came over to the stands side ill never know, drawn low, all previous races they came up the home straight about 5 wide off the far side rail like Kingman's run, very diss.

Without going into too much detail

Backed Kingman immediately after his maiden win at Newmarket and again before the Solario. All other bets have been lays.
Backed Toormore a couple of times after he won the National Stakes at around 11 and then layed 7.4 after the Craven.
Backed Kingston Hill at 15 in the Winter and layed at 9 when Varian announced he would almost certainly start his 3 year old campaign in the Guineas.
Backed Outsstrip at 52 a few weeks ago when it seemed that firm ground would prevail at Newmarket and layed at 34 soon after when Be Ready flopped and he looked like the only Godolphin runner.
Backed Shifting Power at 90 as soon as it was announced Frankie would ride and traded at almost immediately at 70. Sadly I didn`t do the same with Night of Thunder thinking that a form reversal with Kingman was unlikely and Ryan Moore had deserted him.
Finally backed War Command many times after the Coventry and over the Winter assuming he would be Coolmore`s main reprasentative.Sadly this did not turn out to be the case but as explained previously was still able to lay at between 7 and 8 having had 9 all in based on his two year old performances.
Also backed Piping Hot the Hannon horse that Godolphin purchased as a two year old but sadly died.



How`s that for you.

feltfair how did you lay toormore after the craven at 7.4...he never went below 8.4 after the race...i was watching and he was weak after the race...unless i'm going mad

8.4 is 7.4/1 from a trading standpoint.

you are right mac99

sorry wrong thread !!!

Cheers Harry.

I've ended up with Night of Thunder on the same rating I gave to Haafhd, so not a bad winner but below the likes of Makfi, Dawn Approach, etc. He'd obviously have a favourite's chance of adding the Irish version to this if he comes out of the race well, but I think he'll struggle to maintain his position at the top of the milers afterwards unless he improves and don't see him as good enough to pick up a clutch of Gp1s.

I actually have Kingman 3lbs lower than his Greenham win (if he'd ran to that mark I reckon he'd have been a narrow winner). It's certainly not low enough to be called a bounce. Possibly it could be attributed to the extra furlong but that's not the view I'm taking. When I back a horse after it runs a fast time I don't expect it to always repeat it to the pound and if it runs to within 2 or 3 lbs I regard it as running pretty much to form. For me, having a trial isn't always the best preparation, especially when the trial involves the horse running to its peak. I think the Greenham probably just took the edge off him, rather than having the desired effect of bringing him on.

I have Australia on the same rating I had Camelot on for winning the race. It'll take something very good to come out of the trials to beat him.

I have Toormore running below his Craven form, nevertheless, in hindsight I'd overrated his National Stakes win and the Craven win is probably as good as he is. None of the other beaten horses would immediately interest me for the future at this stage.

Hard to ignore that if Australia with a different trainer he may have trialed first and won the guineas?

Yes I feel that.

No, I mean what is it that's a major downgrade?

They can't all be group 2 horses surely?

The first five numbers home not bad ,but not good to start upgrading too much?Austrailia can only go forward,kingman is a sprinter they could drop it to 6f(weather permitting) and in kingman lies the big doubt about the whole race?

To make the race look standard you gotta raise kingman 3 lb or so,I just can't do that over the mile?,7f or 6f maybe.The winner is ok,Australia,wrong trip and needing run?,and most of the rest of the field with lengths of each other.