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If you take the Supreme form at face value then Prospect Wells is as reasonably treated as Darlan. He would certainly be suited by a faster pace to aim at but whilst I can see him going close of this mark in future handicaps, he may be vulnerable at this early stage to improvers that have had less opportunity to show their ability. That said he has been raised by 4 for the future.
Not sure I have seen too many from PFN turn out so quickly but if he were to pitch up, 32 seriously underestimates his chance |
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If I fancied Darlan I would not be worried about the 11st12lb. Class horses usually come to the fore in this race notably Menorah who won it off 151 just recently.
There is a suspicion he might be better, perhaps, on a flat track but it is only a suspicion, nothing more than that looking at his form. Same thing was said of Gradouet so it's very dangerous to pigeon hole novices. There is a lot of rain forecast for Saturday. |
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Menorah did win the race off 151 and top weight, like Darlan will try to do. But Menorah had won the Supreme, demonstrating an aptitude for the course, and he was double the price of Darlan. Menorah's Supreme was probably stronger as well, and Darlan could well go off at 2/1, making him a third of the price of Men. Darlan is far far too short in my book.
I think Kazlian and Vendor are the lurkers here. |
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Yeah I agree and that's why some have decided not to back him. They usually get turned over when they're short.
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It is certainly true that the juice is now gone out of Darlans price. It is also true that his current odds are lobsided in relation to Prospect Wells odds. However, it is an error to decide to just look at the one piece of form from March and to take it literally and deduce it means there is little bewteen them. For starters Darlan got a terrible ride and was much wider all the way than PW. Also, the Aintree raced confirmed Darlan a far superior horse as has the subsequent formline with Zarkander. Absolutely all evidence suggests Darlan to be a significantly superior animal. Maybe not as much as the prices suggest but everything still points to the Henderson horse having a big edge.
I also must seriously question the suggestion that Menorah, by winning the Supreme Novices had shown an aptitude for the course but Darlan hasn't because he only came second in the same race? Look at the race again. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the horse was in any way inconvenienced by the downhill as he travelled fluently in a good rhythm through this section. He also finished better than everything with the exception of the winner who will very likely go on to become a 165+ horse this year (personally I think he will be 170 and win the Champion) according to his shrewd trainer who should know, especially as he has Overturn to compare with. So yeah, again nothing but strong evidence that he will have no problems with the Cheltenham hill. He got a terrible ride last March, wide all the way, especially rounding the last bend where he lost several lengths. He ran a cracker in the circumstances and must emerge with great credit. P.S. To be fair to AP it is possible he took a wide berth as the horse was young and had taken a horrible fall at Newbury and he wanted to give him sight of the hurdles. However, it wouldn't be the first time AP has lost a lot of ground by riding Cheltenham poorly. |
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So you will in no way accept the superiority he showed over PW at Liverpool may, I repeat may, have had something to do with a flatter / faster course?
He clearly acts around Cheltenham and the way he finished in Supreme, and his poor run imo in a novice event, showed that stamina or the hill isn't an issue. He has only run 6 times and twice at Cheltenham over hurdles - I would actually suggest there is no strong evidence either way. Obviously a very good horse, will be interesting to see how good |
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Yeh,very interesting.
I am of the view that the Supreme wont add up to much this season and will swerve the likes of Darlan and Cinders and Ashes early on this season. Therefore on Sunday i shall be looking lower in the weights for the likely winner. |
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@roobuck; Yes, it may be a factor.
But it's my contention that he didn't run any better at Liverpool than at Cheltenham. The lengths he lost were many plus also the slow pace was a big factor. He got shoved so wide off the last bend and lost a few lengths at a vital time. I honestly believe he ran an absolute cracker and that he and the winner were by far the two best horses on the day. If it was a fast pace and he got a better ride the first two would of pulled clear. Just my opinion. I believe the overall form of the race to be weak with the exception of the 1st 2 who I see as 160+ types at least. Time will tell. |
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Bud ,
I think cinders will surprise a few people this year - very open champion hurdle but want him in my stable |
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Yeh,maybe mate,would not be a major surprise being the top 2m novice.
Thats just my view at the moment on the supreme,but that could all change. If Cinders wins the Fighting Fifth beating ROR,then i have to rethink straight away. I do find his price for that race baffling-fav? Im also think current price for CH is skinny as well. |
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I'm doing my brains on ch already - had 80 on zark at 14.5 but laid it off at similar price as thought pw would win sat and odds may go up ! Now in on c and a and nipping at darlan - I reckon ditching top 6 would prob make money but ..... I'm a huge h fly fan so hope he fires thus year but won't be getting involved ap just yet .
Any thoughts / opinions on rsa ? I know it is off topic Regards |
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dtamutants
Date Joined: 15 Jan 08 Add contact | Send message 14 Nov 12 12:57 Joined: 15 Jan 08 | Topic/replies: 147 | Blogger: dtamutants's blog Menorah did win the race off 151 and top weight, like Darlan will try to do. But Menorah had won the Supreme, demonstrating an aptitude for the course, and he was double the price of Darlan. Menorah's Supreme was probably stronger as well, and Darlan could well go off at 2/1, making him a third of the price of Men. Darlan is far far too short in my book. I think Kazlian and Vendor are the lurkers here. so do I (and maybe Bothy too!) Not looked at race in detail yet but think it might be significant that King was initially talking about Raya Star for this race until he won at Ascot and now relies on Vendor Would rather back him ew than Darlan at the prices. |
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think there are a lot of potentially closely matched runners in here & the Irish contingent need consideration
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AP to ride Its a Gimme I believe. Very surprising.
Suppose they must fancy putting a claimer on Darlan to keep the weight down.... |
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Forget that... still deciding. I misread my text!
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No way does anyone other than AP ride Darlan imvho
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Yep I was very surprised when I misread it! Although I did think it might make sense to get a decent claimer on Darlan to ease the weight. But at the end of the day, JP will decide.
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Ann Stokell has been riding out at Hendersons, any chance she'l get the nod
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The horse is only supposed to carry 11-12 Liam.
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I must admit i haven't seen her lately stront - but if NJH needs a strong pair of hands . . .
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![]() JP Magnier always available. 7lb off but like a penalty of a few stone. |
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I backed one of hers in the Foxhunters a few years ago. I think it may still be going round. I still feel the shame
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^ Actual LOL here..very good SD
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Can anyone put me off Dark Lover for this,Never been out the first 2 and won with a bit in hand after a long absence around here..No weight and is totally unexposed plus Ryan seems to ride Cheltenham very well,If he runs i'll have a win/place on him as i didn't expect him to be pitched into such a tough race..Interesting runner imo
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Dark Lover won well at the last meeting but it was a pretty poor race.
Up 11lb,in a much stronger contest and fairly quick 2nd run after a massive lay off. Too many negatives for me. |
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Thanks for the reply Flyingbolt...
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So no Its A Gimme. PW declared with Harry onboard - hope you took the 32 on offer bazz.
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Yes I did but was going to double with my selection for PADDY P, but because of the big price on here, didn't bother.
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G/l bazz. I might play him e/w but will wait on ground. The more rain that comes, the less he will prefer it.
So what have you chosen for PP? |
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WALKON.
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Sorry all Darlan backers....but go on Nicky pull him out
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Darlan is set to give Pros wells 12lb yet PW was argueably less suited by the slow early pace in the supreme novice. Like the fact
that he also ran very well in probably a better handicap hurdle (the ladbroke).They weny so slow early at wincanton that I doubt it took much out of him and he should be primed for this. The main concern is if the ground is too soft for him . Given present best odds 14/1 then the ground doubt can be withstanded within the price and backed him . Also think his stable mate Dark lover could run well and had something on him at 14/1. (note Henderson has said he may pull out Darlan leaving a big r4 at 9/4) |
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Racing Post @Racing_Post
Darlan a "serious doubt" for ther Racing Post Hurdle says Nicky Henderson. Decision in morning. Cash And Go and Captain Conan definitely run |
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I see cash and go has joined new stable since last season, how is he CCM? LOL or is he also with new owners as well?
Really like KAZLIAN for this, was 14s this afternoon while the PP was being run, missed the boat completely but spose could wait till morning see if they push him out, tho then again if darlan dont run! |
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CCM sold cash and go iirc
darlan won't run according to sportinglife website |
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Racing Post @Racing_Post
Darlan will not run tomorrow at Cheltenham, Nicky Henderson has announced. "We are sorry but the horse comes first," he said. |
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paddypoweraudioteam @PPaudioteam
@Racing_Post On the back of news that Darlan & Sprinter Sacre won't be running tomorrow, we're refunding ALL ante-post bets on both horses! |
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Wasn't Olofi a forum 'charge' horse on at least one occasion last season? Got his ground tomorrow so I'll give him another chance along with Cash And Go.
Can't do any worse than I did in the PP today. ![]() |
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I have to say in terms of PR, what PP have done re refunding Darlan AP bets is first class.
I still think that Darlan will be better served running in the Fighting Fifth anyway. Yes uncle lost a bit on Olofi last year and also giving him another chance along with Bothy, think their experience on the ground could also be important. Small e/w to back up Cash and Go - don't worry you'll have a better day tomorrow ![]() |
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Vendor NR now too
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