Clearly not yet at decs and hope he runs at Wetherby,  but WP not entered at Ascot

Thats the thing though Roo,hes 10/1 cos his recent form is rubbish.In fact he should be bigger than that really imo.

His Hennessey form goes back too far,his form recently suggests that,and thats where he should be judged until he proves hes as good as some think he is/was.

Last season he pulled up twice and got well beat twice.

Better to watch him if yer like the horse,rather than spending yer hard earned,imo.
Of course if you do think 10's is value,cos that price is worth the chance he might come back,then yer have to take it i guess.

Well he had a few entries last season,never won any of them on the bridle,in fact he werent good at all!!

FTO is the time to catch him and I'm not sure it's entirely fair to judge him against Kauto Star and Long Run, especially when he was the one who tried to go with Kauto.

To quote the OP:
Record on seasonal
debut:

1/1/1/1/1/4 (the 4 being behind two of the finest chasers in recent memory)

Really? That is a surprise. I guess that says more about Kauto in 2010-11 than anything else.

I think you know what I mean though - Kauto and Long Run (in good form) beating DH does not make him a bad horse. There is nothing in that class in this Charlie Hall. Personally (as we've discussed in other threads) I think he might be even better treated in the Hennessey.

am i the only weird al fan
still comes out best on OR...., 2/2 at the track, 1st time out figs of 2,1,1,1,1

i've played the 5/1

Thought DH's hennessey win was really good form. He may have been getting nearly 2 stone off Denman but he still managed to beat
him by 15 lengths which was no mean feet considering Denman looked in top shape and later in the season went on to come second in the Gold Cup. If he was in that kind of form you could argue that he'd be a 2/1 fav to win this race . But the chances of him being
in that form probably about 3/1 plus .(3/1 x 2/1 =11/1) Throw in that he may not need to be in as good form as he was that day around
8/1 + is probably the about the right price. Judgement of what physical and mental condition he'll turn up in is thus crucial.
Personally think he may have gone physically and mentally plus he isn't getting any younger but at least he's got the ability buried
within him somewhere.

As they set off down the backstraight for the final time in the Betfair Chase Diamond Harry's jockey James Reveley made a fateful decision that may well have a negative impact on the immediate prospects of every horse that ran in the race.

With nine fences still left to jump Reveley decided to move Diamond Harry up to take on Kauto Star for the lead. With the benefit of hindsight and sectional times the leaders should probably have been taking a breather at this point due to the strong early pace they'd been going. But, thanks to the ensuing duel between Diamond Harry and Kauto Star, they ran the roughly five furlongs from the first in the backstraight to four out 4.4 seconds faster than Grade 3 class chasers did over the same trip in the next race won by Cappa Bleu.

This brought about an unusual phenomena that I call a pace collapse where the entire field tires badly until they nearly grind to a halt approaching the finish.

From four out to two out the leaders ran 6.3% slower in the Betfair Chase than they did in Cappa Bleu's race. From two out to the last they ran 8.9% slower. From the last to the finish they ran 10.4% slower. All told they took five seconds longer to get up the homestraight.

Normally every horse that runs in a steeplechase over two and a half miles plus where there is a pace collapse requires as long as ten weeks to fully recover from the effort according to my research. However there is quite often one horse that the race brings on in fitness rather than knocks off form.

In the case of the Betfair Chase it is easy to leap to the conclusion that LONG RUN (40) will be such a horse because he was almost certainly the only runner that needed the run. You could well argue that he simply blew up through lack of fitness and this prevented him dipping as deeply into his reserves as his rivals.

Most likely this is the correct conclusion. But I reckon there's around a 20-40% chance that Long Run will be knocked back by the race as well.

What worried me the most about Long Run's performance was the way he got stretched into a string of jumping errors when Diamond Harry and Kauto Star kicked on. In addition he ballooned the last due to being tired and landed in a heap. He could so easily have crumpled on the landing side of the fence if he had set down even slightly wrong.

Before the race Long Run's trainer Nicky Henderson had voiced concerns about his charge's jumping and reported he'd just returned from extensive re-schooling with the expert in this field Yogi Bresner. This being so there has to be a concern that Long Run could once more be stretched into jumping errors in the King George.

The obvious counter arguement is that Long Run made several mistakes when running below form on his seasonal debut last term but bounced right back to take the King George next time out.

I wish I could say definitively what the right position is to adopt with Long Run after this performance. All I can say for sure is that the general odds of 6-4 now available about him for the King George make me want to look elsewhere for the winner.

KAUTO STAR (43) is clearly not the horse he once was. But he still put up a magnificent performance. He jumped boldly, set a strong pace, stood off a lengthy challenge from Diamond Harry then repelled Long Run when his old rival tried to work his way back into the race.

I honestly thought that Kauto Star was finished after he'd run a clunker at the Punchestown Festival. But trainer Paul Nicholls shrewdly reasoned that if he was ever going to win another Grade 1 it would be the Betfair Chase where he could give him a fitness edge by training him to the minute. As Nicholls said "he was very, very fit we made sure of that ... this was his Gold Cup."

It now seems clear that Nicholls' game plan all along was to win this race with Kauto Star and the King George with Master-Minded. However he and owner Clive Smith are now mulling over the idea of letting Kauto Star join Master Minded at Kempton for one last shot at the race he's won four times.

If he were mine I'd be tempted to retire Kauto Star and let him go out with a big win. He finished tired here so it's going to be hard for him to recover in time to reproduce this effort in the King George. The Gold Cup might seem a logical target if he's kept fresh. But the Cheltenham race appears to favour younger, more lightly raced horses these days - with fourteen of the last fifteen renewals going to horses that had thirteen or fewer previous starts over fences. It's hard to see what else Kauto Star could win.

Then again, thoughts like these simply highlight the wonderful difference between jump racing and flat racing where so many of the very best horses get retired before they've really shown what they can do. And no one should ever under estimate a horse that I agree is the best steeplechaser since Arkle. I think he's going to have a tough time winning again but you can argue it's great that he has the chance to try.

Third placed WEIRD AL (40) moved well for a long way and impressed with his accurate jumping at speed. But he didn't run quite up to the form he'd show when winning the Charlie Hall on his comeback. Indeed trainer Donald Mc Cain reported that jockey "Timmy Murphy said he didn't feel quite as sharp as Wetherby - which, with his track record, would be understandable. But it's a great run, and we're very pleased with him. It will be a long break, because he is definitely a better horse fresh and sharp."

Mc Cain is clearly right. Weird Al is not that robust for a chaser and almost certainly needs breaks between his runs as he requires longer to recover from them. He underwent surgery to correct partial paralysis of his larynx after running a clunker in last year's Hennessy and bled when pulling up in the Gold Cup in his comeback outing.

The major worry before Weird Al ran so badly in last year’s Hennessy was that he was legless in the closing stages in his previous start when just getting up in a slow motion finish to dead heat with subsequent Paddy Power Gold Cup winner Little Josh at Carlisle.

It was especially worrying to note that the Racing Post reporter said Weird Al looked distressed in the unsaddling enclosure after that race. I say this because it was a similar story after he'd won on his hurdling debut where he actually needed to be given oxygen he was in such a bad way.

The only win Weird Al has scored that wasn't preceded by a break of at least eight weeks was in a very slow run race on his second start last season where they were only going at racing pace for the last half mile. He'd needed a one year break after his hurdling debut win when he'd finished distressed.

It's going to be very tempting for Weird Al's connections to bring him back in the Gold Cup. But I think that race is simply too stressful for him. He had to be pulled up in it last year despite having had a break of 111 days beforehand.

The right race for Weird Al's comeback is surely the Totesport Bowl at Aintree. The tight turns and smaller field will make the race less stressful and therefore more suitable for Weird Al. And the exceptionally stiff jumps will make the most of his good jumping. If he skips the Gold Cup and goes straight to that race I'd like his chances.

Jockey James Reveley reported that fourth placed DIAMOND HARRY (37) was "flat out all the way", had finished very tired and would need a long break. This suggests to me that Diamond Harry may well need softer ground to slow the pace down. I suspect this will prove to be true as his career develops.

It does seem that Diamond Harry has recovered from the problems he experienced with a suspensory ligament. But he's clearly still inclined to push himself very hard in his races and needs time to recover from particularly stressful ones like this.

I don't know whether Diamond Harry will recover from this race in time to produce his best at Kempton in the King George. But his trainer Nick Williams says he won't run him in that race unless he feels he has recovered. So I'm going to be rather interested in his chances if he does line up and the ground is a good deal softer than it was here.

In my experience almost all horses run below form the first time they're taken on by a genuinely top class rival as Diamond Harry was here. The fact that he was able to sustain his effort for so long and actually look a big threat to win for quite some time says a lot for his qualities. I'm sure he'll be winning again in Grade 1 company sooner rather than later.

Same here

Among his rivals on Saturday will be Diamond Harry who was well fancied for the race last year when ruled out on the day.

Jane Williams, wife of his trainer Nick, said: "He's got more excuses than any schoolboy with his homework but he is well and we are happy with him at the moment.

"He is very big and very fragile but on the course he is a magnificent horse. I think we have ironed out most of his problems unless he has found a new one!"


lol a lot has changed in 2 days

1359.20 to be exact!

PA Stables ‏@PA_Stables
Charlie Hall defector Weird Al could run in Haydock’s Betfair Chase. Fellow Wetherby absentee Diamond Harry has suffered “a slight injury”.

Master of the Hall possibly now the value at 10s, small field etc, but not sure he can defy his penalty.  Maybe PoS a better bet, good record 1st time out, and does well at these weights.

"1359.20 to be exact!Sad"




Ouch...does that put a dent in your season ?

The Hennessy it is imo.

Wanted to say I was gutted but couldn't help laugh at myself for being so stupid. Told myself not to play until NRNB, said so on here and still played.

Hennessy is a good option for him off his current mark - just not AP

unlucky guys, after the comments he was on target for the race I dont blame for taking a price. Just the way it is

Unfortunately its one thing after another with this horse,and has been for a while now.
He was never an antepost bet with his record of setbacks plus his form of last season.

People really need to forget his form of a few years ago,especially if its costing them money.

wait till just before the off then mate,and certainly not before the day.

was thinking of backing harry ante post on tuesday  for the charlie hall but miss williams statement did not fill me with confidence ,so held back .