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Just back from an amazing week.
The atmosphere at York was incredible all week but especially on Wednesday when the gate was up by 10k on last year.
I have never seen so many people shedding tears about horse racing, especially the flat. Henry and Frankel - an amazing story, the sort cheesy films are made about, except its true.
Okay St Nick was running over a distance a bit short for him, but for Frankel to canter past him on a tight reign was stunning. God alone knows how far he would have run if he had been asked to go on at the 2 furlong marker - my guess is about 15 lengths. Sad to see Henry so thin though. Maybe Vincent OB would have a few supporters, but there has never been a greater trainer of racehorses than Henry imo - a true legend. This time last year Frankel was a tearaway; now he settles like a lamb. His speed is simply shattering to watch, especially live.
The Nunthorpe was another great race and the Ozzy mare Ortensia is very good - did she really make up 8 lengths in the last 2 furlongs to win going away?
Although just on top after Ebor calculations all done, I was disappointed with the race. I actually backed over half the field in the end, but ante post prices made the return okay. Too many times there is no real pace in the Ebor, making it a hard race.
Best ride of the meeting? Well the two top weight handicap rides by Keiron Fallon were brilliant of course and Frankie was sensational on Thought Worthy. However I personally really admitted the way Frank rode Hoyam in the roses Stakes was superb. Running into a pocket, he had to switch right round 4 or 5 others. His skill in performing the manoeuvre, so smooth, no pulling the filly's head, losing as little impetus as possible, and even taking his time after he had got her clear to make his run before timing the winning effort was very very pretty to watch. I never really got the stuff about a jockey having "good hands" before; Lester had them of course; Frank is the next best to Lester, a really talented artistic rider I would say.
A great meeting, a memory to take with me to the grave. Whatever happens for the future, I will always have the sight of Frankel cantering past a triple group 1 winner before bursting clear, putting 7 lengths between himself and the rest in the last furlong.
The atmosphere at York was incredible all week but especially on Wednesday when the gate was up by 10k on last year.
I have never seen so many people shedding tears about horse racing, especially the flat. Henry and Frankel - an amazing story, the sort cheesy films are made about, except its true.
Okay St Nick was running over a distance a bit short for him, but for Frankel to canter past him on a tight reign was stunning. God alone knows how far he would have run if he had been asked to go on at the 2 furlong marker - my guess is about 15 lengths. Sad to see Henry so thin though. Maybe Vincent OB would have a few supporters, but there has never been a greater trainer of racehorses than Henry imo - a true legend. This time last year Frankel was a tearaway; now he settles like a lamb. His speed is simply shattering to watch, especially live.
The Nunthorpe was another great race and the Ozzy mare Ortensia is very good - did she really make up 8 lengths in the last 2 furlongs to win going away?
Although just on top after Ebor calculations all done, I was disappointed with the race. I actually backed over half the field in the end, but ante post prices made the return okay. Too many times there is no real pace in the Ebor, making it a hard race.
Best ride of the meeting? Well the two top weight handicap rides by Keiron Fallon were brilliant of course and Frankie was sensational on Thought Worthy. However I personally really admitted the way Frank rode Hoyam in the roses Stakes was superb. Running into a pocket, he had to switch right round 4 or 5 others. His skill in performing the manoeuvre, so smooth, no pulling the filly's head, losing as little impetus as possible, and even taking his time after he had got her clear to make his run before timing the winning effort was very very pretty to watch. I never really got the stuff about a jockey having "good hands" before; Lester had them of course; Frank is the next best to Lester, a really talented artistic rider I would say.
A great meeting, a memory to take with me to the grave. Whatever happens for the future, I will always have the sight of Frankel cantering past a triple group 1 winner before bursting clear, putting 7 lengths between himself and the rest in the last furlong.
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cryoftruth - glad you enjoyed it. Agree with a lot of your post however I cannot concur with your description of Hoyam as ride of the meeting. Spencer had the horse positioned last of the field, and opted to go down the inside rail. He found trouble in running, pretty inexcusable in 6-runner race IMO, and had to switch around the whole field before making ground to lead late under a showboating finish. Any praise he receives is unwarranted in my opinion, he was lucky the horse had the pace to get him out of trouble.
I think Spencer has a tremendous amount of ability as a jockey, but his desire to sit bang last as often as possible quite rightly drives punters to distraction. Personally I would rather see horses I have backed given every possible chance (through their track position, I'm not suggesting any nefarious activities!) rather than see Spencer look good in a finish.
Enjoyable post otherwise, all the best.
I think Spencer has a tremendous amount of ability as a jockey, but his desire to sit bang last as often as possible quite rightly drives punters to distraction. Personally I would rather see horses I have backed given every possible chance (through their track position, I'm not suggesting any nefarious activities!) rather than see Spencer look good in a finish.
Enjoyable post otherwise, all the best.
Frankel settled in the Royal Lodge and was cruising on slow ground at the mile pole. He has always been a stayer he has always got all trips connections have got it wrong stepping him up far too late. Lets not have those who said he wouldnt stay back then in the early days trying to use the get out of jail 'settles now' card to avoid their blushes.
"Frankie was sensational on Thought Worthy" - It is amazing how much he is starting to look like William Buick!
Eric
I cannot have Frankel described as a stayer. He is bred to get 12 furlongs, and he may get 12 of course. However his defeat of otherwise champion miler EXcelebration by 11 lengths makes him the best miler ever.
To be a stayer, he would need to be winning St Legers and Gold Cups.
Nor do I believe he could have won the Derby last June. He was just too free and headstrong. It has taken them till July this year to really settle Frankel. Now he has he can either win the Arc or CHampion Stakes. I personally think they should support Champions Day, and I think that,s what they will do.
14 straight wins means Henry Cecil has not done too much wrong plotting Frankel through his career. I would not wish to start trying to tell him which race to go for next. I suspect he knows more about the next step or steps better than forumites.
I cannot have Frankel described as a stayer. He is bred to get 12 furlongs, and he may get 12 of course. However his defeat of otherwise champion miler EXcelebration by 11 lengths makes him the best miler ever.
To be a stayer, he would need to be winning St Legers and Gold Cups.
Nor do I believe he could have won the Derby last June. He was just too free and headstrong. It has taken them till July this year to really settle Frankel. Now he has he can either win the Arc or CHampion Stakes. I personally think they should support Champions Day, and I think that,s what they will do.
14 straight wins means Henry Cecil has not done too much wrong plotting Frankel through his career. I would not wish to start trying to tell him which race to go for next. I suspect he knows more about the next step or steps better than forumites.
You know what I mean, he has always stayed middle distance trips. It has totally depended on how he has been ridden as to how much early speed he has shown. I got it spot on on the Frankel thread he could have been sat on and cruised as far as they wanted as a 2 yo the horse was and is a freak.
The Royal Lodge they 'settled him' as a 2 yo. Henry Cecil got it wrong publicly on him not staying the Derby trip however privately I believe he was confident he would stay but preferred a safe uncomplicated career for him at a mile. Laughable get out of jail after getting it wrong statements from you again.
The Royal Lodge they 'settled him' as a 2 yo. Henry Cecil got it wrong publicly on him not staying the Derby trip however privately I believe he was confident he would stay but preferred a safe uncomplicated career for him at a mile. Laughable get out of jail after getting it wrong statements from you again.
Cecil has never liked stepping exceptional colt milers up in trip. That was always the biggest danger to this horse proving himself as the all time great. The all time great HAs, like all the other all time greats, to win a Derby or Arc to be the greatest European horse of all time. He may have the wrong trainer for that unfortunately as I have said All Along.
Dont you ever bored of this pocket talking bitterness Eric? I've never known a punter to be so bitter about losing his money. Perhaps you should just stop betting.
In a way I'm glad he isn't, I actually find it quite amusing
COT - I would concur with Workforce re Jamie Spencer and imo to compare him next to Lester is way off the mark. The best jockeys get horses to win that shouldn't and whilst Spencer is a go-to jockey for a horse that needs to be held up, personally I think Hughes is better.
For the ride of the week, though he got done on the line by an exceptional performance, Frankie's ride on Spirit Quartz was right up there.
Glad you had a great week, pretty envious tbh. Never been racing at York, must make the effort sometime
For the ride of the week, though he got done on the line by an exceptional performance, Frankie's ride on Spirit Quartz was right up there.
Glad you had a great week, pretty envious tbh. Never been racing at York, must make the effort sometime
Thanks Roobuck
Eric
WHat are all these "getting it wrong" statements I am accused of making. Perhapsit was the "one that pointed out that Frankel was bred to stay 12 furlongs and that if a horse is bred to stay 12 furlongs it usually does stay".
What you say about Henry having a history of not wanting to run his horses over a mile and a half but to keep them unnecessarily to smile is I'll informed hogwash.
His 2000 Guineas winner, Wollow certainly went straight for the Derby after HQ. I think some evidence might be quite helpful so you can justify your position,especially since you express your opinion with a hint of rudeness.
Eric, you do seem to be one of those people I generally try quite hard to avoid. Perhaps I am wrong but you could be one of those people always trying to impress others by proving they were "right all along" and that anyone disagreeing with you must be stupid. Such people are the archetypal bores, ending up with few friends and spending much time on Internet chat rooms.
Of course everyone has a right to an opinion, I respect your right to yours. However I suspect that Henry Cecil has forgotten more about racehorses and what is their best trip than you will ever know. That is my opinion of you ERic, and my evidence is the last response you polluted this thread with.
Eric
WHat are all these "getting it wrong" statements I am accused of making. Perhapsit was the "one that pointed out that Frankel was bred to stay 12 furlongs and that if a horse is bred to stay 12 furlongs it usually does stay".
What you say about Henry having a history of not wanting to run his horses over a mile and a half but to keep them unnecessarily to smile is I'll informed hogwash.
His 2000 Guineas winner, Wollow certainly went straight for the Derby after HQ. I think some evidence might be quite helpful so you can justify your position,especially since you express your opinion with a hint of rudeness.
Eric, you do seem to be one of those people I generally try quite hard to avoid. Perhaps I am wrong but you could be one of those people always trying to impress others by proving they were "right all along" and that anyone disagreeing with you must be stupid. Such people are the archetypal bores, ending up with few friends and spending much time on Internet chat rooms.
Of course everyone has a right to an opinion, I respect your right to yours. However I suspect that Henry Cecil has forgotten more about racehorses and what is their best trip than you will ever know. That is my opinion of you ERic, and my evidence is the last response you polluted this thread with.
Hi Cryoftruth,
Like eric, I also backed Frankel for the Derby, but I have no problem with the way he has been campaigned. If Cecil had done what a lot of people were calling for last year then, assuming it was successful, we wouldn't have seen Frankel as a 4yo, consistently performing at a level higher than anything we could've seen from him last year. Given the choice, I would rather see him go to the Arc than the Champion Stakes, but I won't be too disappointed if connections stick to their original plan, unlike some I don't see the Arc as the be all and end all of defining a champion.
I don't know if you've already seen this article in the RP, but it sums it up perfectly, for me.
http://www.racingpost.com/horses/home.sd?story=1102847#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews
Like eric, I also backed Frankel for the Derby, but I have no problem with the way he has been campaigned. If Cecil had done what a lot of people were calling for last year then, assuming it was successful, we wouldn't have seen Frankel as a 4yo, consistently performing at a level higher than anything we could've seen from him last year. Given the choice, I would rather see him go to the Arc than the Champion Stakes, but I won't be too disappointed if connections stick to their original plan, unlike some I don't see the Arc as the be all and end all of defining a champion.
I don't know if you've already seen this article in the RP, but it sums it up perfectly, for me.
http://www.racingpost.com/horses/home.sd?story=1102847#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews
Hi Figgis
I backed him for the Derby as well. However I like you have no problem with the way he has been campaigned. It took a while to teach Frankel that he didn't have to go flat out from the start and to race "properly"; now he has learned he could win the Arc. A price of 1/4 with a run reflects his chances if he went for it too.
I would personally prefer it he went to Ascot for champions day though for selfish reasons. My own Arc book would be well messed up by introducing Frankel into the Arc market at 1/4. I see the argument about achievement etc for Frankel to win the Arc though; I would (more or less) happily see my Arc book ruined just for the pleasure of Frankel winning the Arc and seeing Sir Henry take this prize to complete his own awesome CV.
However Cirrus and Nathaniel are probables for Ascot already so in reality Frankel thrashing Danedream, Vlayra and a few middle distance plodders at Longchamp would be perhaps less of an achievement that it might, at first glance appear compared to the Champion Stakes. Of course there is another possibility - that Frankel could use the Arc as a preparation exercise canter for the Champion Stakes bid. Now that would be nice!
Trouble with Eric's rant is that he equates the "bred to stay - will stay" argument with the "should have run in the Derby" argument. Sir Henry was convinced Frankel was not ready for Epsom, presumably believing he would be lit up by the crowd and the occasion and pull hard and ruin his chance. After the 2000 Guineas performance it is hard to see how this view is anything other than spot on. Eric still still seems bitter that he lost his 50p each way bet on Frankel at 2/1 for the Derby. Pocket talk does not shed any light on anything other than on the peevish nature of some forumites!
I backed him for the Derby as well. However I like you have no problem with the way he has been campaigned. It took a while to teach Frankel that he didn't have to go flat out from the start and to race "properly"; now he has learned he could win the Arc. A price of 1/4 with a run reflects his chances if he went for it too.
I would personally prefer it he went to Ascot for champions day though for selfish reasons. My own Arc book would be well messed up by introducing Frankel into the Arc market at 1/4. I see the argument about achievement etc for Frankel to win the Arc though; I would (more or less) happily see my Arc book ruined just for the pleasure of Frankel winning the Arc and seeing Sir Henry take this prize to complete his own awesome CV.
However Cirrus and Nathaniel are probables for Ascot already so in reality Frankel thrashing Danedream, Vlayra and a few middle distance plodders at Longchamp would be perhaps less of an achievement that it might, at first glance appear compared to the Champion Stakes. Of course there is another possibility - that Frankel could use the Arc as a preparation exercise canter for the Champion Stakes bid. Now that would be nice!
Trouble with Eric's rant is that he equates the "bred to stay - will stay" argument with the "should have run in the Derby" argument. Sir Henry was convinced Frankel was not ready for Epsom, presumably believing he would be lit up by the crowd and the occasion and pull hard and ruin his chance. After the 2000 Guineas performance it is hard to see how this view is anything other than spot on. Eric still still seems bitter that he lost his 50p each way bet on Frankel at 2/1 for the Derby. Pocket talk does not shed any light on anything other than on the peevish nature of some forumites!
i went wed, thurs enjoyed both days but the racing just doesnt merit 4 days,the strensal now being bigged up by the boys in blue was a 2 penny race ran at the oct meeting 5 years ago,2, 1 mile 6 races and the lonsdale on the saturday is plainly ridiculous,if they want a saturday it should revert to thurs ,fri, sat,the fact people went on the wedensday but didnt go on another day by looking at the figures shows people dont want the 4 day festival
Yes agreed
I was against a 4 day meeting and dead against a Saturday Ebor too. Some of the races like the poxy fillies handicap and the dreadful apprentice race that ends the meeting are clearly fill ins to make up the need for an extra day.
However its still the best meeting overall throughout the season. Its actually far less snooty than Royal Ascot and the time of year means that the 2yo races are better quality and the handicaps and group races like the Yorkshire Oaks and International, bring together the 3 and 4 year olds. The Ebor is still a great handicap and the Melrose is an excellent race now too.
Even on the first and last days, the bookies and tote booths were accessible. The fact that Thursday and friday were a bit quieter, is to me an absolute bonus. I like quiet rather than rowdy.
York is a great place to eat and drink and sightsee as well. I went bowling on a council bowling green with mates after each day's racing apart from 1 and the staff there as everywhere were decent helpful and polite.
The 2 Sam Smiths pubs we visited were excellent, and at £1:80p per pint of smooth old brewery bitter, amazing value as well.
Finally even at the races there is excellent choice of almost decent food, some not too pricey and a very decent selection of real ales as well as the compulsory availability of cheap champagne and horrid Pimms.
I have an annual week at York each Ebor week and its alwys something to look forward to and remeber throughout the year. And this year there was of course Frankel - a rare bonus.
I was against a 4 day meeting and dead against a Saturday Ebor too. Some of the races like the poxy fillies handicap and the dreadful apprentice race that ends the meeting are clearly fill ins to make up the need for an extra day.
However its still the best meeting overall throughout the season. Its actually far less snooty than Royal Ascot and the time of year means that the 2yo races are better quality and the handicaps and group races like the Yorkshire Oaks and International, bring together the 3 and 4 year olds. The Ebor is still a great handicap and the Melrose is an excellent race now too.
Even on the first and last days, the bookies and tote booths were accessible. The fact that Thursday and friday were a bit quieter, is to me an absolute bonus. I like quiet rather than rowdy.
York is a great place to eat and drink and sightsee as well. I went bowling on a council bowling green with mates after each day's racing apart from 1 and the staff there as everywhere were decent helpful and polite.
The 2 Sam Smiths pubs we visited were excellent, and at £1:80p per pint of smooth old brewery bitter, amazing value as well.
Finally even at the races there is excellent choice of almost decent food, some not too pricey and a very decent selection of real ales as well as the compulsory availability of cheap champagne and horrid Pimms.
I have an annual week at York each Ebor week and its alwys something to look forward to and remeber throughout the year. And this year there was of course Frankel - a rare bonus.
i was around the paddock and pre parade for frankels race, was anybody in the ring and were people backing the 10 to 1 on,just to have a betting ticket of the day,
i was at longchamp when all the japs were getting tickets for deep impact
i was at longchamp when all the japs were getting tickets for deep impact
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