thanks mr dinos...personally think SeaMoon is the one...always thought of him as HarbingerII even when he was losing St Legers and BC Turfs. Just had that feel of a harbinger type.

anyways

about Soumillon - I wonder if he might get actually racetime on the Orfevre before the big day.....I assume the Prix Foy is the first target....also would be nice if he had 1 more race in Japan and flew over for that....which these days is pretty easy and commanplace to do. Kinane use to do that all the time in Hong Kong ie Ireland / England on the Saturday then straight to the airport and 1st plane to hong kong for the sunday. Got a private jet in the end.

Ribotman, Soumillon is retained by the Wildenstein's (Beauty Parlour) but I don't think they will have a runner and that's why the Sunday Racing Consortium have snapped him up for Orfevre's planned runs at Longchamp.

Nearly all the Japanese runners that have gone for the Arc in the past decade have had a long break before their prep race, which has been Prix Foy or Prix Niel depending on age. The only one I can remember coming over early was El Condor Pasa and he came 2nd in the Prix D'ispahan (May) and then won the Grand Prix De Saint-Cloud (July) and Prix Foy (September). El Condor Pasa was unique as he took the typical French trained route for older horses and he nearly won the Arc for Japan!

Gooner I've back tracked on Deep Brillante and backed him EW for the King George. Racing Post Ratings have him second best rated on 137 behind Danedream (138) and with the weight difference I couldn't resist having a go at 20-1. The G3 he won at Tokyo over 9f on soft ground was impressive and it looked his best performance to me. As I posted before some of his other runs looked moderate but he has never been out the first three so he can't be that bad!

I agree with you about Sea Moon and he ticks all the boxes trends wise but his price isn't my cup of tea.

Good luck all.

Totally agree ribotman, Orfevre looks top notch and I just hope the trip to France goes well.

I still feel sick about Nakayama Festa!!! I backed him a few times Ante Post for his first Arc run, shame Mr Ebina didn't have a bit more strength.

El Condor Pasa race was agonising to watch.

do any of you chaps know if Beat black make the trip to paris?If so could be trained for 1 last great run

Viewed the ORFEVRE gallop today, very interesting but cannot speak French,
does anyone know what was said as regards instructions during gallop, please?
Thanks for the info.

Thanks AKAK, it sounded as if instructions were being given during the workout,
I just wondered what they were, I ASSUME that radio communication was used
from the urgency transmitted during the gallop.
He seemed to do his work with relish.

Akak, thanks for your info regarding Ofevre.

A very interesting read below about the Monster and his Trainer.

Yasutoshi Ikee - Aiming at Arc glory
Article taken from European Trainer Online

Yasutoshi Ikee has dreamed of winning the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe ever since he watched Pilsudski finish second in the 1997 edition. Working for Sir Michael Stoute at the time, he now has his own chance to make history with Japanese Horse of the Year Orfevre.

Based at Ritto Training Centre near Kyoto, Ikee currently occupies the top spot in the trainer’s championship by prize money and lies second in terms of winners. Now one of the stars of Japanese racing, it was only by chance that his family became involved.

“My grandfather was a barber, so we don’t come from a racing family,” Ikee explains, before adding, “When my father Yasuo was at junior school, his teacher said to him that he should become a jockey because of his size.” And so started the dynasty.

Ikee senior began his new career in the saddle in 1959, which spanned 20 years. During this time, he won 368 races, including 17 at stakes level, and was known universally as “front running Ikee” for his style of riding.

After hanging up his boots, Yasuo then became a trainer, going on to handle the careers of several Group 1 winners, including Japanese Horse of the Year and young sire sensation Deep Impact.

Growing up, Ikee junior dreamt of becoming a jockey. With so much in common, he became great friends with Yutaka Take, who attended pre-school with him, and later rode for his father.

Much to Yasutoshi’s disappointment, this career choice was never to materialise. “I always knew right from the start that I was going to be involved in racing. I wanted to start by riding in races, but I quickly became too tall, so that went out of the window.”

As a result, Ikee then trod the path to becoming a trainer. After spending some time with Kuniichi Asami, he went to work for Sir Michael in 1996. “I saw a clip of the Warren Hill gallops on television, and asked my father where it was. When he told me, I made up my mind to go and work in Newmarket because racing started in England, and I wanted to see where it all came from.”

During his year spent at racing’s headquarters, Ikee worked with the likes of Pilsudski, with whom he experienced his first Arc when taking him to Longchamp. Also in the stable at the time was multiple Group 1 victor Singspiel, as well as the talented filly Whitewater Affair, later the dam of Dubai World Cup winner Victoire Pisa for Japan.

The following season, Ikee had a spell in America with Neil Drysdale. “I wanted to see how racing worked in the United States because they train on a round track like we do in Japan. I learnt a lot from him because it was a good combination – he trained like a European, but on a Flat racecourse.”

Ikee first passed his training licence in March 2003, and started his career a year later. Everything fell into place from the outset, something that was becoming customary for the young Nippon. “As is always the case in Japan, I took over from a retired trainer. My first runner had been due to race the week previously before I began, but had been balloted out. He was entered again, and won for me as my first runner. It was just luck!”

One could say that Ikee may have had a head start because of his father’s success, but make no mistake: his impressive results are down to hard work and graft. Like many of his countrymen, he is strikingly modest.

The 37-year-old started with approximately 20 horses and now has three times as many. Such was the confidence in his ability early on, renowned businessman Fusao Sekiguchi, owner of Kentucky Derby winner Fusaichi Pegasus, sent him his €2.27 million sales topping foal when the time came. Clearly the world new he was destined for great things.

Another important patronage Ikee was to receive from the beginning was that of the Yoshida Family, who owned half his stable. They now count approximately two thirds of his horses, and gave the young trainer his earliest big race success with Dream Journey, who became champion two-year-old in 2006.

One of the most striking things about Dream Journey when he first saw him was his size, Ikee remembers. “I knew him as a foal at Shadai Stallion Station after he was born, and he was absolutely tiny. He turned into a very good racehorse however, so it definitely didn’t matter.”

It wasn’t by chance that the Yoshidas sent Dream Journey to Ikee, as no other family could know his pedigree so well. Yasuo had trained his sire Stay Gold whilst Yasutoshi had been working as his assistant. Together they had travelled to Dubai, where the son of Sunday Silence won the Sheema Classic in 2001, beating Fantastic Light. That year, he also took the Hong Kong Vase.

Out of the three-time winning mare Oriental Art, Ikee senior had also trained her sire Mejiro McQueen. Inducted into the Japanese Hall of Fame, the grey won four Group 1s for his connections on home soil, including the Tenno Sho Spring (Emperor’s Cup) twice, becoming the third generation of his family to take this race.

After Dream Journey’s success, it was then set in stone that Ikee would continue to receive his dam’s progeny. After coverings by several other Shadai Stallions, it wasn’t until four years later that she visited Stay Gold again, this time producing a phenomenon.

Named Orfevre, or “goldsmith” in French, it seems that the chestnut colt was always destined to take his chance in Longchamp’s €4 million event. Born in early May, Ikee was already impressed.

“When I saw Orfevre as a foal, the first thing I thought was that he was so much bigger than his brother, and a different colour! I said to myself, if his brother was so tiny and he was such a good horse, then this one will be even better.” Dreams were about to become reality for Ikee, but not without some teething problems.

Top class racehorses always have that special something, and for Ikee, it became clear that the highly-strung temperament of the colt’s family was to play a big factor in Orfevre’s career for better and for worse. This was there for all to see when he made his racecourse debut.

“Before his maiden race at Niigata, everything had gone very smoothly. He was training really well and his preparation had pleased me.” On race day, everything continued in the same vein, until the colt’s temperament shone through.

“Orfevre crossed the finishing line with a length and a half to spare, before he succeeded in getting rid of his jockey straight afterwards. They then couldn’t hold the winning ceremony after the race. He is a monster!” Ikee laughs.

The colt quickly progressed to better things, and after another couple of races, Orfevre turned into his Classic year. “His first two prep races didn’t go according to plan, as he was showing a lot of attitude.  By the third however we had worked out a way to handle him.”

What was to follow was outstanding, and Orfevre became the first Japanese Triple Crown winner since Deep Impact in 2005. His win last October in the Kikuka Sho-Japanese St. Leger, the third leg, was an extremely emotional moment for both Ikees, with Yasutoshi dedicating the feat to his family. It was at this point that the Arc picture started to become a reality. 

Winning Europe’s richest race has long since been a preoccupation for the Japanese, whose best results have come with the Yoshitaka Ninomiya-trained pair El Condor Pasa and Nakayama Festa, runners-up in 1999 and 2010, respectively.

Six years ago, Ikee accompanied Deep Impact to France, where he was third past the post in the Arc before later being disqualified after testing positive for a banned substance. At the same time, Ikee brought over his own Picaresque Coat, who went on to finish second in the Group 2 Prix Dollar. “In Japan he wasn’t even stakes class, so I was amazed that he did so well,” he remembers.

That experience has proved invaluable for Yasutoshi, who came to Chantilly in July to do a reconnaissance mission. “Orfevre will stay at Satoshi Kobayashi’s stable during his time here, and I think it will suit him.

“He will have a stable companion, and I think this will make him calmer. It is a fantastic place to train, and the gallops are amazing. Even if he is used to training on the racetrack, it is so peaceful that I think he will have the time to relax that he needs. The way they race in France is quite like Japan, going slowly at the beginning before a sprint finish, so I think that this will suit him too.”

Currently resting at Shadai before his journey at the end of August, Orfevre will use the Prix Foy as a prep race before the big event. Here he will experience French racing for the first time, but also a new jockey. “It has been decided to use Christophe Soumillon, because he knows Longchamp like the back of his hand, and has won two Arcs,” Ikee explains.

The Belgian jockey has been riding in Japan for the Yoshidas and Ikee for several winters. “Christophe said to me last December that it is his dream to win the Arc on a Japanese horse trained by me. At the time I thought he was flattering me, but now it could become reality. One of the most important things is that they get on well together, because Orfevre can be very difficult.”

It won’t be the first time that the two-time Champion jockey has ridden the colt however, as he remembers riding him as a juvenile one morning at Ritto when working for Ikee.

Come the first Sunday in October, both Ikees will be present, together with Yasutoshi’s son, who one suspects is likely to take over the reins when the time comes. Although recently retired, Yasuo still keeps a close eye on the horses, watching them train at least once a week, and goes racing every weekend. They have a very close relationship, conversing regularly about Yasutoshi’s charges, however where the Arc is concerned, father has let son find his own path.

Japanese trainers have won several international prizes, but Longchamp has thus far remained elusive. It surely won’t be long before they do succeed, as one of the Nippons’ most enduring traits is that they never give up.

Should Orfevre be within winning distance in the final stages of the Arc on 7th October, one thing is certain: his many fans will be riding the last few furlongs with Soumillon. A If anyone can win the Arc for Ikee, it’s him and Orfevre.

Charge gathering momentum today Gwan lad

Spot on Gooner, I've posted about that kind of move from Soummy earlier on one of the threads. It does worry me but a geat prep race for the Arc, this fella is the business and he will only have been 70% to 80% fit. I cannot wait for Arc day, it's now or never for the Japanese!

I had to listen to the race over the phone but it sounded impressive, last to first in a flash. Monster performance.

It wasn't very impressive MrDinos. But satisfactory. Bound to improve given he has not run for so long.

After watching yesterday's trials repeatedly, I have to say my first reaction to Orfevre's win was one of disappointment, and for the obvious reason...the proximity of Joshua Tree.

I still think he's the one to beat in the Arc, and the Foy has just confirmed his well-being & acclimatisation which is always reassuring...just look at how Black Caviar struggled.

Whilst always having had a soft-spot for Shareta, she had a fairly straightforward task (as she was well-ridden and handily placed) but there were a few sob stories in behind, and her supremacy may be exaggerated.

The Niel proved NOTHING (except that Saonois was far speedier than the rest of them) and it was a very disappointing trial, as Kesampour looks a real tough stayer to my eye - I hope connections give him a chance in the big one, though I mentioned after the French Derby on another thread that he had St.Leger written all over him.

Alas, the Aga Khan seems to hate that race after Shergar's demise, and besides the English-trained Baynoun (1984) he has only had one other runner in over 30 years!

In summary...this Orfevre hype has gradually been grabbing me over the last year, and I suspect he's capable of far better than he showed us yesterday.
Well done to the guys who've kept the faith and had the fancy prices...I wish I was one of them

I'm not THAT confident when I hear these excuses nowadays...I like Peter Moody, but he could be another Aidan!
A narrow victory over Moonlight Cloud (and she was heavily eased too) isn't exactly embarrassing though the proximity of the others could be seen that way - with Society Rock winning well at Haydock, even the face-value form is excellent, despite clear reasons for her scrambling home.

I think Canford Cliffs' supposed injury is likely to be guff as well, and these exaggerations really insult our intelligence - I'm absolutely convinced if Frankel had kicked a long way out in that Sussex (instead of 300 yards out) he would have slaughtered him like he did to Excelebration in the Queen Anne.

Anyhow...I think you know the point I'm making about Orfevre, and it has to be remembered that connections weren't gonna be foolish enough to leave the Arc behind, by bottoming him in a trial!
I'm now more impressed than I was 24 hours ago.

Orfevre and the word hype keeps getting mentioned and it's bugging me. He's a triple crown winner and beat seasoned globe trotting horses in one of Japan's biggest races last year which included the Japan Cup winner. His record is there for all to see, no hype just a genuine Arc contender with solid credentials.

Hyping a horse is when they win one good race and people sing from the roof tops that it's going to do this and that but Orfevre has done this and that in his own country. He only needs to win the Arc to add to what has already been a very good racing career.

Sorry Navel but I needed to get that off my chest!

There are loads of big international races now it's not that hard to get a handle of the form from various countries. You can use Snow Fairy as a solid yardstick with her races in Japan and Hong Kong with some of the form. Danedream's run in the Japan Cup was one to put in the bin because that wasn't her true running but there are a lot of other horses I could mention with form in international races that interlink pretty well IMO.

No, Navel!

French trials are always an anti-climax because they are trials. It's cat and mouse and nobody wants to show their real form in a race which is not as important as the Arc.

Your right about Coolmore and hype how many times have we heard O'Brien say this is the best horse we've had, he does this and that on the gallops. It's getting a little tiresome, he never says that much about the female horses he trains. I wonder why!

That's me done, sayonara.

Coolmore and the gang have come out with some brilliant stuff over the years. Which horse would O'Brien say is the best his trained now!!! I wouldn't have a clue.

Meandre reminds me of Shirocco the year he ran away with the BC Turf so I'll wait for that.

Is it possible to bet on the PMU from the UK?

Planet Turf Arc Special can be seen at 10am tomorrow on Racing UK & will be repeated throughout the week.

Anyone know the answer to my PMU question? (can we bet on it?)

Japan's Orfevre ready for Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
By Pirate Irwin (AFP)

PARIS – Should Orfevre give Japan their first win in Europe's most prestigious race the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe at Longchamp on Sunday it should be considered a magnificent feat for the whole country, his trainer Yasutoshi Ikee said.

The 37-year-old - who first dreamed of winning the Arc when he worked for English training great Sir Michael Stoute in the late 1990's - will not only be trying to end 32 years of frustration for his compatriots but also make up for his father Yasuo's disappointment in the 2006 edition.

For Yasuo - also a trainer and the first member of the family to be involved in racing - brought Deep Impact over as a hot favourite for the Arc but he could finish only third and was subsequently disqualified for testing positive for a banned substance.

Thus Yasutoshi, who has been a trainer since 2003, is more aware than many of the great expectations surrounding his horse, who last year became the first Japanese Triple Crown winner since Deep Impact achieved that in 2005.

He hopes the similarities end there and that Orfevre succeeds where 12 previous challenges failed in a race that holds a mythical status for Japanese turfistes.

"To give Japan their first win in what is the most important race in the world would be truly magnificent," said Ikee on Wednesday before the massed ranks of the media such has been the interest engendered by Orfevre.

"It has been a dream of mine for nearly 20 years and for the Japanese people it has been even longer."

As to how he will feel should he succeed in what has become Japanese racing's search for the Holy Grail he was not certain.

"I won't know until it happens," he said with a smile.

"One thing is for sure the pleasure will be greater than it is now."

Ikee has left nothing to chance in the preparations for the Arc of the five time Group One winner including taking the unprecedented step for a Japanese stable of putting on board a non-Japanese rider.

However, it is no ordinary jockey he has chosen - step forward France-based Belgian ace and two-time Arc winning rider Christophe Soumillon, who got to know the Ikee family by riding for them in Japan in the past two years.

"He has won two Arcs, he knows the terrain and is a great jockey plus one that we know," said Ikee.

Ikee's decision met with the approval of the man who had Soumillon on board for his two Arc wins, Alain de Royer Dupre, who saddles one of the great dangers to Orfevre in last year's runner-up Shareta.

"If Orfevre has an advantage it is Soumillon," the 68-year-old trainer told AFP.

"He won twice for us (Dalakhani 2003, Zarkava 2008). The Japanese always used to put their own jockeys on their horses and that was a disadvantage.

"I feel that in terms of choosing a jockey it is rather like football, it is easier playing at home than away."

Ikee, who also had a spell working in the United States before he returned home, is also not concerned by Orfevre's habit of switching off in races, which whilst he is phlegmatic about it if repeated in the Arc would be fatal.

"I am not too concerned where he finds himself in the initial stages so long as he finds his rhythm," he said.

Ikee is confident that his star has made significant progress since he won the traditional Arc prep race for older horses the Prix Foy at Longchamp nearly three weeks ago, although even with his pacemaker Aventino, who performs the same task on Sunday, it was a slow run affair.

"I believe he is getting better and better every day and I am confident.

"He is a winner, he has the spirit of a champion and he has adapted to the different terrain in France."

Aside from dreading rain as his horse prefers good ground the only thing that ruffled the trainer was the undue attention of former jump racing star Al Capone III, who peered out of his stable and chomped away at his jacket.

"Have I ever had an interview interrupted by a horse before? Yes just once and that was Orfevre!"