** Imperial Cup SANDOWN March 10th 2012 **

Seen Dare Me run both this times this season and not sure he is quite good enough to be winning an Imperial Cup tbh.

Alrazi's mark must have slipped a few lbs this season, he'd be interesting.

*Alarazi's

Have no idea whether he would be entered and at this stage whether he would get a high enough mark to get in, but Ifyouletmefinish appeals as the type of horse that would run well

I will give you a Pipe horse

Kazlian

came in here to post Kazilian too

thread over

Ted Spread. shhhhhh

Who sponsors this race now?

Paddy Power

Interesting shout

Forget what I said about IYLMF - been given new mark of 135. No chance off that - put up 16lb for a deat heat, ridiculous

Dare Me will have to brush up on his hurdling, it's been poor so far. Don't think he can.

This is supposed to be the plan for Tocca Ferro. If he lines up I'll be having a crack at him.

Good point Beryl - had forgotten that

TED SPREAD (NAP)

OK, I've heard Ted Spread from the preview evenings too, that is interesting.

Of note DEP said today in the Racing Post there will be no double attempt this year due to no suitable interest from owners at the yard. Interesting and intriguing comment.

So this now looks wide open. Something to do your nuts on this weekend then ...

I'd like to see chesil beach boy have a crack in this, keeps winning and still looks to have stacks left to me....miranda roberts or not i'd be keen to back it off 129.He's 9 but has been lightly raced after having 2 years off and the initial promise he showed during his bumper career (just beat by tocca ferro for one instance) hasn't been stunted by his absence as he is progressing with each run over hurdles.

Is there still a bonus for winning this and a race at the festival, please?

yes 100k i think

Thanks trev.

Thought it was a £50k bonus unless they upped it ..

Could do with seeing the betting for this,last big race before festival ..

I think we can safely add Master Of Arts (USA) to the list.

Sintonian, it used to be 100k, but everything is being cut back now, as a sport we have suffered more than any other, through political meddling, VERY POOR VALUE TO WINNERS, I remember races being worth more about 40 years ago, this was normal every day meets and no night racing or Sunday racing with a maximum of 6 races daily at each meet, this stupid way of doing mushroomed under the NEW LABOUR government, plus the machines and cartoon racing in betting shops, absolutely disgusting!!!!!

Which comparable race that has been programmed in the last year was worth more 40 years ago, bazzar?

The Great Metropolitan and the 1 1/4 mile handicap at Kempton,
won by Eric Cousins several times.
Check out by all means.

Ted Spread
4/1
Sire de Grugy
10/1
Master of Arts
10/1
Hinterland
10/1
Tocca Ferro
12/1
Red Merlin
12/1
Nampour
12/1
Ile de Re
12/1
Devil To Pay
14/1
Outrageous Request
14/1
Ciceron
16/1
Celtus
16/1
Pascha Bere
16/1
Chesil Beach Boy
16/1
Lucaindubai
16/1
Starluck
20/1
Via Galilei
20/1
Torphichen
20/1
Pateese
20/1
Swift Lord
20/1
First In The Queue
20/1
Paintball
20/1
Monetary Fund
20/1
Dark Shadow
20/1
Art Professor
25/1
Johns Spirit
25/1
Valid Reason
25/1
Lady Bluesky
25/1
Clarion Call
25/1
Zanir
33/1
Ascendant
33/1
Grafite
33/1
Helium
33/1
El Dancer
33/1
Rowan Tiger
33/1
Looks Like Slim
50/1
Sacrilege
50/1

    Each Way Odds » 1/4 Places 1,2,3,4

I look forward to hearing any reports as to Tocca Ferro's participation.

Kazlian not entered, thought he would be too tbh, perhaps Pipe thinks better of him and may go for the Triumph instead of the Imperial/Fred double?

I think I read his owners didnt fancy attempting the double .

glad chesil beach boy is running, monster.

^
not guaranteed to run and the stable has had a bit of a cough

Any body got access to FLASH IMPs win in this race a few years ago
and give us a comparison to this weekends race, as regards value to winner?

Whilst he may well prove a lot better, I certainly don't think that Ted Spread is thrown in off 135 and wouldn't go anywhere near him at 4s.

Obviously he was a very good flat horse and last time having spent more time in training with PFN, he was visually very impressive up against a fair marker. However unexposed he is, he has still been put up 15lbs and that's a hell of a hike

Ted Spread 9/2

Awful price

Will probably give Valid Reason another chance @ 25/1

Tel, think one of those that ran in behind Bourne lto will win this race, just not sure which yet

Valid Reason ran behind Bourne

Think fav is an awful price

FFT of similar ability to BOURNE (2nd in the Old Newton Cup) The Dapper Don has one in this which won the Old Newton Cup - RED MERLIN.

Has had some time out due to a back problem but when he came back he put 3 together and ran up a sequence. Seems to act on all ground (better on good but not apparently ground dependent) I think this fella's better than 130, he hurdles very slickly indeed and has been double entered with a view to picking up the bonus. Last visit to this track he was out of sorts in the Tolworth and didn't ever get going, he's better than that and this was at the time of a physical issue  since resolved.

Appears to have been saved for this. 12/1 looks decent.

Oh and re MASTER OF ARTS, Pipey's actual words in RP Saturday were -

"By the way, it’s looking unlikely
we’ll be going for the Imperial
Cup/Cheltenham double that Gaspara
pulled off a few years ago. I had a
couple of possibles in mind but I am
not sure the owners are keen."

Queue MASTER OF ARTS Bolting up at 9/1 ... No I haven't backed it either. Possible I'll live to regret that.

Oh and re MASTER OF ARTS, Pipey's actual words in RP Saturday were -

"By the way, it’s looking unlikely
we’ll be going for the Imperial
Cup/Cheltenham double that Gaspara
pulled off a few years ago. I had a
couple of possibles in mind but I am
not sure the owners are keen."

Queue MASTER OF ARTS Bolting up at 9/1 ... No I haven't backed it either. Possible I'll live to regret that.

Reading the RP, if tomorrow's forecast rain arrives a good chance that Ted Spread won't run.

Regardless, if the rain does come I think Sire de Grugy still has some wriggle room of its current mark. Won't get too heavily involved but on balance I would sooner back him than one of the others mentioned here that whilst not without chances may not have enough on hand for their seasonal debut

Master of arts price has collapsed. Also been backed for the county. Pipe plot on the cards? Hasn't raced  over hurdles since Cheltenham 2009.

harchibald
05 Mar 12 21:12
Joined:
30 Sep 01
| Topic/replies: 321 | Blogger: harchibald's blog
FFT of similar ability to BOURNE (2nd in the Old Newton Cup) The Dapper Don has one in this which won the Old Newton Cup - RED MERLIN.


Please forgive my ignorance but who are you referring to here? Solely Red merlin? I am not sure he was 2nd in the old newton cup

Just interested in what your saying and found to get a bit confused, by FFT your obv replying to far from trouble.

Bourne was 2nd in an Old Newton Cup

Red Merlin has won an Old Newton Cup

"Bazzar",
I am struggling to find a race that was worth more in 1972 than it is in 2012. As an example, the race you highlight, The Great Metropolitan, run over 2m of course, was worth £2000 in '72.  This year it will be run for £15,000, despite it being downgraded somewhat (as the course cannot take a 2m race these days so it's run over 1m 4f and would clash with the City and Sub -40K, 1m 2f- if it's rating band was much higher). 

Happy to check back for you on any other specific races and allay your fears...so fire away...

Is £2,000 in 1972 money worth £2000 in today's then?

Good point SANKARA, I should have stipulated "comparable value" and I am only interested in value to winner, as that is one of my criteria for betting.

Sintonian, the bonus for Imperial Cup is 75k this time, still a drop from previous years.

Rancid point Sankara as that was not what bazzar wrote and doesn't appear to be what he meant either.  I don't think you'll find many infaltion-deniers on here  

Bazzar, the value to the winner would be the same exercise as the total prize fund.  They are linked funnily enough

Anyway, if you fancy carrying on start another thread that I'll reply to as this, knowing you, could go on a bit.

Bit confused here

The point I was making is that I think that the winner of this race may have been behind Bourne at Ascot last time (Helium, Art Professor, Valid Reason)

Reckon that race will work out well. Art Prof the one i'm leaning towards most at the moment. beat Hinterland the previous race and got fairly close to Module. Think he'll outrun his price

Don't worry harchibald, I for one understand

Pipey sounded very sweet on his runner just now on ATR. ''A high class horse we're looking forward to running''. They will attempt the double aswell if all OK.

Tell me, didn't they bring back a similarly lightly raced,fragile but talented horse to finish an unlucky second .. Seven Is My Number ??

Roobuck, I thought any rain would help Ted Spread, loved soft ground on the Flat.

cheers Bazzar.

harchibald
03 Mar 12 22:04 Joined: 30 Sep 01 | Topic/replies: 321 | Blogger: harchibald's blog
OK, I've heard Ted Spread from the preview evenings too, that is interesting.

Of note DEP said today in the Racing Post there will be no double attempt this year due to no suitable interest from owners at the yard. Interesting and intriguing comment.

So this now looks wide open. Something to do your nuts on this weekend then ...



and now



sintonian
07 Mar 12 11:26 Joined: 21 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 17,945 | Blogger: sintonian's blog
Pipey sounded very sweet on his runner just now on ATR. ''A high class horse we're looking forward to running''. They will attempt the double aswell if all OK.



Shameless, but far from the only one.

Roo you read my comments correctly btw thanks

sint - I agree but PFN was quoted in the paper as saying that won't run if its soft. Maybe they wouldn't want too hard a race ahead of the County Hurdle if it was soft.

Just thought it might be worth taking a price now if others fancied something else, because if TS does come out it will cause a huge shake in the market

No problem harchibald and good luck with Red Merlin

Tocca Ferro 1st horse jocked up but still a N/R.

Cheers Emma

Did you back him DD ? I had not read anything from trainer re a run ..

Apparently Anthony Bromley said Ted Spread wont run at the Leopardstown Preview meetting last night, but lo and behold he is declare at 48 hrs..

Had a few quid eachway on Devil To Pay. He does need a career best,21lb higher than his last win, but still looks to be going in the right direction and will be suited by the race conditions, nice weight. Took 14/1 but you can get 5 places elsewhere fwiw.

Afraid so Sint. An incredibly promising horse, off the course for well over a year but left in at the 5-day stage and jocked up. Not unreasonable to assume it would line up, at least that's what I thought

Unlcuky mate. Fan of the horse aswell but want to see him ruh again after his lay-off. Think he did a tendon ? Cant remember.

tocca ferro pulled out due to bad scope....mucus

Ah. Sounds like you have just been very unlucky there DD.

All part of the game, apologies to the lovely Emma if she saw my previous post

Interesting that you picked Devil to Pay sint. He ran a good race against SDG last time and though he is 2lb better off I though he was held and a better race with a little more pace in it I'm hoping will carry SDG further into it than at Taunton.

The other one I'm also interested in is Nampour, but e/w. As much as anything if he runs well I may well be hovering over Balbarry for the Martin Pipe

I'm down on this already due to a big punt on Red Merlin. Seriously bad judgement and just too trigger happy on my part.

I backed MASTER OF ARTS This morning pre decs at 9/2. He can recover this race to a healthy profit or make a heaftier loss for me.

Bromley 'at it', Pipey 'at it', mute from McCain and More also putting punters away. This really has to stop. The first two, although I'm a personal major fan of the latter, have both blatantly contradicted themselves, one at a preview evening another actually in print. Don't understand it ... or I hope I don't ... reality may be as it appears.

Master of arts must be covered here,it looks like they mean business with the blinkers on. Interestingly he won 3 times when backing up within 7 days with Sir Mark. Im already on Pateese  but ive gone off him now, the other one i can see in the mix is Zanir who is capable of framing off his lowest mark for over 2 years.

Nampour as mentioned above is the value here.  Good horse for Hobbs a few years ago and back on a decent mark. Good effort last time and as long as the ground drys, this stiff finish could suit.  20's e/w looks good value with Tom O'Brien booked for a red hot stable.  Could see a gamble on this one.

if Ted Spread is this good thing why is Pascha Bere 25/1 when the swing in weights favours it?

That's because Pascha Bere is an exposed 9yr old with Nick Gifford and Ted is an improving 5 yr old trained by Paul Nicholls.  Match Bet?

Only had a few quid on Roobuck. He was held by SDG agree but in the context of THIS race DTP has a nice weight. Wasn't expecting the ground to be Soft though so not sure if he'll like that. May add another selection tonight/tomorrow.

Ile De Ray ? WL2,CD winner,no weight.Trainer in form.

Though I haven't backed it, I also think Ciceron will outrun its current odds. Won off this mark last year and if you can forgive his last run when he really wouldn't have been suited by the pace ( I know that applies to many in that race ) has course, distance and going form. Trainer still seems to have her horse in good form generally.

The difference to the front two in price is startling considering they still have it to prove

And yet Aidan chooses Art Professor....

I think I'll just stick with SDG and small e/w on Nampour...may have jumped too early. I think the County Hurdle will be easier than this race

Backed Devil to pay @13 and Art professor @46,gl all

good luck turnip, have backed mast' of arts 6-1..

And you Tin my worry with Master of Arts is he was very in and out with Mark Johnston during the flat season,backed him a few times after catching my eye in the previous races,but was very poor and never delivered,maybe Pipe has sorted him out,but won't be carrying my money this time,like i said,good luck though.

yep fair play, guess we'l all know soon enough...

paintball for me at a price

I'm really coming round to Master Of Arts being a proper tilt at the bonus from Pipe again. That beating of Copper Bleu at Donny in the race before it ran in the triumph a few years ago reads really well. I know it was getting over a stone but I remember the race well because I was following Copper Bleu and it won easily. Copper Bleu was smart and was then 4th in a good supreme in it's next race.

I think this has double bubble attempt written all over it and when they really go for it quite often it comes off.

Graffiti way over priced at 500/1.Tough little horse at the right end of the handicap with top claimer on board.Will stay the trip well and was running a good race behind Dynaste  not that long back.Not that great a race imo and worth a small dabble.Good luck all.

Anyone have racecallers trends?

Obv. Trained by M.Pipe is one but would like to see the others, I think this race is usually won by a younger horse 5 or 6 and every year I am always looking at an older one that is well h'cpd at a big price!

Paintball for me , has had a wind operation .

Sire de Grugy the class act saver

Rowan Tiger 33/1. Has a 20lb pull with Ted Spread for a 2 length beating. Probably didn't stay at Ascot and may be better back on softer ground.

Patesse could be a lively outsider IMO.

wd conditor and mrcombustible - great tipping !

yep hats off, enjoy the win

Well played you two - great call and price