2012 QIPCO 2000 GUINEAS:

Parish Hall not entered

Godolphin really should be running Mandaean imo - one horse proven on soft going and will easily get the trip

If the horse is fit they're fookin nuts imo.

I suspect he isn't though.

Newmarket ground soft after overnight rain
By Racing Post staff 3 MAY2012

THE going at Newmarket changed overnight to soft as 25 millimetres of rain hit the course, significantly more than forecast.
Between six and seven millimetres was forecast overnight, on ground described as good to soft, but the heavy rain has eased the ground to soft for the two-day Guineas meeting which starts on Saturday.
Clerk of the course Michael Prosser said: "We had 25 millimetres overnight and the ground is soft, but the track has taken the rain well."

No appreciable rain forecast from now until the big race, so yielding ground likely for Saturday, drying up further by the time of the 1000 Guineas on Sunday (slow/dead ground but unlikely to be very soft or heavy).

1    (2)     Abtaal (USA)    Jean Claude Rouget, France    9st 0lb    C. Soumillon
2    (8)     Boomerang Bob (IRE)    J. W. Hills    9st 0lb    Seb Sanders
3    (14)     Born To Sea (IRE)    John M. Oxx, Ireland    9st 0lb    Johnny Murtagh
4    (11)     Bronterre    Richard Hannon    9st 0lb    Jamie Spencer
5    (12)     Camelot    Aidan O'Brien, Ireland    9st 0lb    Joseph O'Brien
6    (5)     Caspar Netscher    Alan McCabe    9st 0lb    Shane Kelly
7    (3)     Coupe de Ville (IRE)    Richard Hannon    9st 0lb    Paul Hanagan
8    (15)     Fencing (USA)    John Gosden    9st 0lb    William Buick
9    (16)     French Fifteen (FR)    N. Clement, France    9st 0lb    Olivier Peslier
10    (4)     Hermival (IRE)    M. Delzangles, France    9st 0lb    Gregory Benoist
11    (17)     Power    Aidan O'Brien, Ireland    9st 0lb    Ryan Moore
12    (1)     Ptolemaic (Visor)    Bryan Smart    9st 0lb    Tom Eaves
13    (13)     Redact (IRE)    Richard Hannon    9st 0lb    Jim Crowley
14    (10)     Red Duke (USA)    John Quinn    9st 0lb    Tom Queally
15    (7)     Saigon    James Toller    9st 0lb    Robert Havlin
16    (6)     Talwar (IRE)    Jeremy Noseda    9st 0lb    Frankie Dettori
17    (9)     Top Offer    Roger Charlton    9st 0lb    James Doyle
18    (18)     Trumpet Major (IRE)    Richard Hannon    9st 0lb    Richard Hughes

, someone layed me 50s 4/5 days back, this morning         , there was quite a few quid trying to back him in the 20s, next thing n/r

thx bjg

Abtaal draw

PARISH HALL, FURNER'S GREEN and the two Godolphin horses have been taken out.  PARISH HALL the only major surprise.

Mandaean for the Dante then?

Did Jim Bolger sleep in?

what about the draw, best horses drawn middle to high. if low numbers favoured then abtaal could romp it

sorry BJG , is that definetly a bad draw ?

Most of the fancies drawn high.

I agree with elis, in soft I think Abtaal has got a good draw

History suggests that ABTAAL, HERMIVAL, CASPAR NETSCHER and the other low-drawn horses needn't bother to turn up if the ground remains on the soft side.

COTC was quoted as saying the 2000gns will be run on unraced ground i seem to remember..

My opinion is best draw is where the best horses are drawn.  A high draw is best imo on fast ground and it ain't fast.  But my guess is they come up the middle.

When SPECIOSA and SPECIAL DUTY won the 1000 Guineas (on soft and good/soft ground respectively) the high-drawn fillies had a significant advantage.  The location of the stalls may make a difference though.

Sorry yes was thinking low was stands side - keeping forgetting the change of stalls numbers

A low draw is horrid elisjohn

They usually use the far side course for the Craven meeting and the stands side course for the guineas, the Post havent given out the info about where the stalls are going to be but i suspect its the middle.

id suspect theyd come middle to stands, whos going to make the pace??

NEWMARKET (Updated: 8:28) Soft
  (GoingStick: 6.8 on Wednesday at 14:00)
  Stalls: Stand Side Course
  Stalls: Qipco 2000 Guineas Centre
  Stalls: 12f Far Side
  Stalls: Remainder Stand Side
  25mm of overnight rain.
  Thursday Cloudy and breezy with patchy light rain at times 11C.
  Friday Largely dry but possible light afternoon showers 13C.
  Saturday & Sunday Mainly dry 10C.

Thursday, Friday, Saturday dry and it will be good ground.  Fingers crossed.

3    (14)     Born To Sea (IRE)    John M. Oxx, Ireland    9st 0lb    Johnny Murtagh
8    (15)     Fencing (USA)    John Gosden    9st 0lb    William Buick
9    (16)     French Fifteen (FR)    N. Clement, France    9st 0lb    Olivier Peslier
11    (17)     Power    Aidan O'Brien, Ireland    9st 0lb    Ryan Moore
18    (18)     Trumpet Major (IRE)    Richard Hannon    9st 0lb    Richard Hughes

Some serious jockeys on the high draws.

Might have to look at the Sprints then, wouldnt want to be too far away from the stand rails(famous last words)

When Special Duty won (and Speciosa) the ground had gone soft duty to heavy overnight rain and hadn't had
enough chance to drain away. By Saturday there's likely to be 2 full days of drainage. Also when special
duty won there was a significant cross wind which if it hit those drawn low first would have been a
disadvantage plus did it rain on watered ground. On Saturday there's due to be a cross wind that will hit
those drawn high first and they could shield the low drawn runners.

JOSEPH O'BRIEN has admitted the soft conditions at Newmarket are a concern for Camelot as the colt bids to maintain his unbeaten record in Saturday's Qipco 2,000 Guineas.

"There has to be a question mark over the ground. It's an unknown and there's a lot of top of the ground in his pedigree. He's a good moving horse and he'll be a better horse on faster ground.

"He's got plenty of boot, a high cruising speed and he's won a Racing Post Trophy, so I'm not too worried about the mile. He's come to hand and although it's his first run, he's ready for it." O'Brien told At The Races.

Born To Sea, a three-parts brother to Sea The Stars, is also on track for the 2,000 Guineas and his trainer John Oxx said: "He's made the expected progress from two to three and I'm happy with the way his preparation has gone.

"He was lame after the race at Leopardstown having torn a muscle, but hestill ran a good race. He has a good bit of ability, but we don't know how much.

"He's an idle homeworker, he keeps plenty for himself and we are throwing him in at the deep end but it'll tell us a lot. He's going straight there,rather than having a prep, and I just hope that's the right decision.

"He has the look of a miler, we'll take things one step at a time as he's only raced twice, but he's flexible with regards to the ground. I think he'll prefer a faster surface but I'd never pull him out because of the soft ground. He still has to prove he stays a mile."

Jean-Claude Rouget thinks Abtaal could finish in the first four in the QIPCO 2000 Guineas after pleasing him in his preparations.

Hamdan Al Maktoum's colt was narrowly beaten by Saturday rival French Fifteen on his seasonal return in the Prix Djebel at Maisons-Laffitte but the top trainer is expecting significant improvement ahead of his Newmarket bid.

"He was not fit enough to win the Djebel and the trip was a bit short for him, but he has improved a lot from the race and that is why we decided to confirm Newmarket for him," Rouget told At The Races.

"It is never easy to win the Guineas, but I think he has improved enough to be competitive and finish in the first four. Christophe Soumillon told me the horse would like the track at Newmarket."

Is anybody actually in Newmarket that can report on todays weather.

The report from the clerk of the course on the Racing Post website suggests that they weren't expecting any more rain (or very little) after this morning but I live about 45 miles west of New'Mkt in Northamptonshire and after a persistently drizzly and showery morning it has been raining really heavily all afternoon - heavier than much of the rain we had earlier this week. If this heavier rain has hit New'Mkt then I don't see the going being good to soft by Saturday.

I also forgot about the change in the way they do the draw - when I said you wanted middle to low - I meant high to low. I expect they will filter over to the stands rail - cue traffic problems in such a big field.

Previously high draws (the new low) did well

I think only Sea teh Stars i recent years has come from a stand side (now High)draw

when I said you wanted middle to low - I meant high to low

Uncle - you're confusing me...

Unclepuncle, in Newmarket today it stopped raining at about 9.00 and there was a heavy shower for about fifteen minutes in the afternoon, but that was all.

7 or 8 rated within a pound of each other
inexperienced jockey
anecdotally 0% chance on breeding
hasnt run for 6 months
only had 2 races and never been in a battle

and ladbrokes want us to believe they are doing us a favour by providing a service that allows us to back this 5/1 shot at evens.

for future reference use this as an example of how people are morons that can be led like goats

Laying the fav E/W

GL all

So do we want a high or low draw? I'm very confused now!

Recent history would indicate than when the ground is soft it is better to be stand side ie high numbers after the changes.

If the Craven meeting (and other recent soft ground Guineas) is any guide then they will probably edge over to the stands side and the horse(s) who get over to to the stands rail in the last 2-3 furlongs may be hard to peg back. These days the high numbers are nearest the stands rail.

Hopefully they will stay bunched in the middle of the track and the best horse will win whatever the draw.

The only horses who have led in their last 4 starts are Ptolemiac and Abtaal drawn 1 and 2. Abtaal to have the run of the race up the middle of the track as the stands side horses get going too late?

Pretty happy with the draw for French Fifteen. I just hope Peslier doesn't over do the tail end charlie routine because that will almost certainly hinder FF's chances on the soft ground. I think he will have to position FF in a more prominent position for this race, otherwise it could be a nightmare trying to find a gap with the field bunching up onto the stand side rail (high numbers).

It will be better for all if the race is run down the centre of track but somehow I think the jocks will be like a herd of sheep and head to the stand side!

All the best with your bets, it's been a good read apart from a few dip sticks putting up some weird stuff recently.

Cool thx. I've backed Power. Has a good draw and his best form was on soft. He's versatile with his running style too. Ladbrokes are really looking to lay this one though. They're bigger than on here now.

Born To Sea sails into the unknown

Oxx admits he's unsure of potential within Star's sibling


By Niall Cronin herald.ie Thursday May 03 2012

It was three years to the day yesterday that John Oxx won the English 2,000 Guineas at Newmarket with the subsequently all-conquering Sea The Stars.

He was a mildly fancied 8/1 shot on that occasion as Oxx proved just how capable he is at preparing one for the biggest of stages, and while it would be simply foolish of one to expect something similar to Sea The Stars this coming weekend, don't be surprised if Oxx can have a major say in the first Classic of the season.

Born To Sea, who is, of course, a half-brother to the aforementioned Sea The Stars, will make his seasonal debut over Newmarket's Rowley Mile on Saturday afternoon and while he is the current second favourite for the race, the three-year-old's trainer feels he is going into the unknown.

Oxx said: "Everything has gone very well with him and he's had a trouble-free run. He's enjoyed a good winter, hasn't missed any time at all since mid-December and he's as fit as we can have him for his first run."

Born To Sea carries the same colours of Christopher Tsui as Sea The Stars did before him and the son of Invincible Spirit will be hoping to bounce back to winning ways after finishing second on his final start of last season.

"It's always a toughish preparation to get a horse ready for a Classic at the beginning of May without giving them a prep race, but we decided against a trial run," Oxx revealed.

"He's not experienced but is a pretty sharp sort of horse and doesn't seem to be very green.

"He's as fit as we can get him and we think he's pretty ready."

After opening his account on his debut at the Curragh last September, Born To Sea was then overturned when 8/11 favourite in the Group Three Killavullen Stakes at Leopardstown.

Aidan O'Brien's Nephrite obliged on that occasion. However, the favourite was found to be lame post race by Oxx and there seemed a valid excuse for his narrow length-and-a-half defeat.

The ground has dried out from soft to good to soft at Newmarket, but rain due could see it ease again, although that isn't a major concern for the master of Curraghbeg.

"He's fairly adaptable ground wise, but he's a horse who's unproven and we don't know an awful lot about him yet," said O'Brien.

"He's won over six furlongs so I supposed I'd have preferred fast ground rather than slow ground because he has to get the mile. We'd prefer it wasn't a real slog but will have to take whatever comes."

Sea The Stars won over a mile, mile-and-a-quarter and mile-and-a-half in his three-year-old season. However, tilts at the Derby or the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe are unlikely for Born To Sea.

"We don't look on him as a stayer. You don't see many of Invincible Spirit's stock winning races at longer than a mile or 10 furlongs. I don't think you've ever seen a good winner by him over a mile-and-a-half.

"We look on him as a miler but to start the year off we'd have preferred a mile on better ground just to make sure he had a better chance of getting the trip. Long term I don't think a mile will be a problem."

Oxx concluded: "We don't know what we have. We know he's a smart horse and has some of his brother's ability. We think he's capable of running a decent race but we don't actually know how good he is. We'll have to wait for the race to unfold to get some answers.

"It looks a good 2000 Guineas, all the best horses are there, everyone is taking Camelot on. It will be a very competitive whatever wins will be a very good horse."

- Niall Cronin

It's a horrible thought but ...

Power is 14/1 with Ladbrokes so they are in the know that he won't win.
Power drawn 17, Camelot drawn 12.
Camelot has stamina, probably not miler speed.
Camelot hasn't run at Newmarket, Power has.
Same owners for both horses.
Ground will be good / good to soft.
Camelot jockey 0 for 3 runs at Newmarket.

They are going to use Power as a pacemaker for the Camel ot ...
... to make it a stamina test, to help the inexperienced horse, to help the inexperienced jockey. 

Ryan Moore on Power is encouraging.

Be surprised if he took the ride if it wasn't there to win bearing in mind Hannon runs 4...

I know, I know, hacks up at odds on in Irish Guineas...

Moore isn't going to be taking pacemaking duties...

Agree re the booking of Moore.

Usually when AOB wants a ''treat softly'' ride he books Pat Smullen or uses one of his stable jocks.

I think alot depends draw wise whether they race as a group up the middle or the high drawn take the initiative & tack over to the stands side rail which im convinced when they race right up the stands rail(and not the false stands side rail they have up the middle for most of other meetings) is a distinct advantage.

I can see Power powering past Trumpet Major to win the 2000 Guineas, with maybe the French colts fighting out third with Casper Thingy-me-bob.

depending on the draw id be having my finger on the bet button for the palace house

Aidan O'Brien insists he has not "forced" Camelot to be ready in time for the Qipco 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on Saturday.

The eclipse of St Nicholas Abbey in the race two years ago is still a raw memory for the Ballydoyle team and they admit it took him a good year to get over those exertions.

With Camelot by the same sire in Montjeu, and having followed the Racing Post Trophy route, comparison has been drawn, but while O'Brien was reluctant to commit the unbeaten colt to the Classic until only recently, the last few weeks have seen him discuss his chances in a far more bullish mode.

"He's never run in a big field, but he's a straightforward horse and a relaxed horse at home. Obviously the bigger the field the more dangers there are, but I don't think it's going to be a problem," O'Brien told British Champions Series TV.

"If the horse wasn't going to be ready for the Guineas we didn't want to be forcing him so we were letting him tell us. He's been coming along nicely and everything has gone smoothly so far. I'd imagine so (he'll get further). His two runs were over a mile last year and we're using this as a start-off race."

Camelot will be ridden by O'Brien's son, Joseph, who is looking for his first British Classic.

"It's going to be his first run of the year so he should improve from it, but he's been doing everything nicely. He won very impressively at Doncaster and was in control all the way. He's a very uncomplicated horse, he takes no work at home. He's very easy to ride - he has it all," said O'Brien jnr.

The Ballydoyle team also have a strong second string to their bow in Power, seen by many as an unlucky loser in the Dewhurst on his last start at two.

"He started off at six furlongs and went up to seven. He hasn't run over a mile yet, so he's a little bit different to Camelot," said the handler .

"He's well and he's a big, hardy horse. I don't think a mile will be a problem, but he's a horse who shows plenty of early speed in his work, so I'm not sure how much further than a mile he'll get. In his races he has a lazy way of racing and comes home well, so it will be interesting."

By Richard Forristal independent.ie


Friday May 04 2012


With heavy rain rendering the official going as soft at Newmarket, varying degrees of caution are emanating from the two Irish camps with runners in tomorrow's 2,000 Guineas.

Officials at the course remain confident that the Qipco-sponsored first Classic of the year will be run on good to soft ground, but Jim Bolger elected not to declare his Dewhurst victor Parish Hall for the Group One yesterday, while Joseph O'Brien and John Oxx admitted that their respective contenders would be happier on a drier surface.

O'Brien will be aboard Camelot for his father Aidan, and the Doncaster Group One winner's odds at the head of the market drifted a mite to 7/4 after his teenage rider expressed his concerns.

"I have to have a question mark over the ground," the dual champion apprentice admitted of Camelot. "He's a very good moving horse and won both starts last year on good ground. The ground at the weekend is an unknown, but we won't know until he goes and does it."

Being by the recently deceased Montjeu, most of whose offspring cope well in slow conditions, O'Brien's fears may prove unfounded. Indeed, when you take into account the dismal record of the sire's better progeny over a mile, conditions might well help Camelot.

Oxx also suggested that Born To Sea would prefer better going, but he doesn't see it as a serious issue for what will be just his third runner in the Newmarket feature.

"He still has to prove he stays a mile and I'm not sure he'd want a slog," Oxx reported of Johnny Murtagh's mount, "but the ground as such, I don't think it's a big worry."

Parish Hall was the notable absentee when a final field of 18 was unveiled for the race yesterday. Ballydoyle's Power, with Ryan Moore up, is the only other Irish-trained runner.

The Rosegreen team also has the favourite for Sunday's 1,000 Guineas in the unbeaten Maybe, and O'Brien, who won three times on the Galileo filly last year, suggested that he didn't "see the ground being a major issue".

Ger Lyons' Lightening Pearl could yet miss the fillies' showpiece because of the ground, but a decision may not be made until tomorrow.

Oxx also revealed that his Epsom Derby hope Akeed Mofeed -- which met with a setback recently -- is an intended runner in the Derrinstown Trial at Leopardstown on Sunday week, though he added: "He would certainly want another week, but if we can get him there fit enough to run a good race we'd be hoping to run. I think he has to run at Leopardstown if he's going to run in the Derby, so we'll see how the next 10 days go."

- Richard Forristal

Newmarket's ground has turned soft again after substantial overnight rain.

The track had dried up to good to soft on Wednesday but 25 millimetres of rain has seen conditions ease again.

Declarations for the first Classic of the season, Saturday's Qipco 2000 Guineas, have been made today, with the 1000 Guineas run on Sunday.

Weather for Newmarket 12pm
Friday 04 May 2012 2day forecast
Today

Light rain
Temperature: 4 C to 9 C
Wind Speed: 14 mph
Wind direction: North
Tomorrow

Cloudy
Temperature: 2 C to 9 C
Wind Speed: 18 mph
Wind direction: North east

Any thoughts on Noseda's Talwar following the supplementation. Will love the testing ground surely?

La combinaison des prévisions des trois premiers chevaux de la djebel prix mon ami


Spanish Duke in the opener, Meandre/Fiorente sfc and ill be watching the guineas in whoevers firm is biggest about My fav Jam song in the Palace House re the draw

Down in The Tube Station at Midnight?

That wun wasnt allowed, too many letters

Wonder if MOORE will have his usual snooze in the stalls?

NEWMARKET (Updated: 16:38) Good to soft
  (GoingStick: 6.9 (Stand Side 6.8; Centre 6.8; Far Side 7.0) on
  Friday at 15:30)
  Stalls: Stand Side Course
  Stalls: Qipco 2000 Guineas Centre
  Stalls: 12f Far Side
  Stalls: Remainder Stand Side
  The re-positioning of the bend has increased the distance of the
  12f races by 12m.
  Dry overnight.
  Friday Largely dry but possible light afternoon showers 1-2mm.
  Saturday & Sunday Mainly dry 10C.

zilzal - sounds like your mood tomorrow night may be similar to mine although I'll probably be double handed in the Palace House with Temple Meads.

Interesting that according to the stick, low numbers will be best. Perhaps as someone else said, it's different as the course has had time to drain rather than it being overnight rain

It could be inconclusive to rely on the guineas though.

The stalls are stand side in the Palace House with probably two or three runners less, so whilst it may be feasible in the guineas to go far side with the stalls in the centre, its a bit longer to go over with less runners and a shorter distance.

Then again these are jockeys we are talking about

Then again these are jockeys we are talking about

:)

The point that seems to be being missed is that there are no horses on the stands' side with a history of being in front early. Who is going to make a beeline for the stands' rail? If they do that, they'll have to lead. On the far side, we know Abtaal has shown his best form in front. Ptolemiac is also a front runner. Abtaal looks to have a huge advantage because of these factors. Someone tell me who's going to lead on the stands side?!

The Pacemaker, aka Power

Hermival @27 and Power @13 for me also think Saigon will out run his odds,and might back him to place in the 4th place market on here good luck all

Not read anything on this thread so apologies if i am repeating someone with this quote but isn't it worrying for Camelot takers onners that laddies have always been the shortest by miles on him for at least the last 2 months? Even now when he is 7/4-2/1 with all the other firms, they are just evs!

Wonder what they will go to at 8am, could be interesting as they must surely push him out to get any trade on it

I am one of them backing against him however, having backed the next 5 e/way in the market at 8s 9s 10s 10s and 12s, basically laying the fav and in the hope there is not a shock result.

There was a lot of instances in the last 2 years where Ladbrokes were shortest on APOB runners that ran shockers (or didn't run at all). They've been biggest about a few of his that have gone onto win too. So I think the notion that they know any more than anyone else when it comes to Ballydoyle runners is daft. The fact that they are shortest on Camelot and longest on Power means nothing. I've no opinion on either btw. Both good horses and wouldn't be at all shocked to see either romp home. From a value point of view, I'll go for French Fifteen myself. But just pointing out the Ladbrokes thing as I read posts form kincesm and SeaTheStars using the "Ladbrokes know" argument.

ladbrokes know

fukk all

Can pass on good word from Ballydoyle re Power. I have been told to back it e/w

Agree with Viva, they went longest SNA on Breeders Cup morning

So whats the consensus of opinion of where they will go
All in 1 group up the middle
split into 3 far middle & stand
tack over to far
tack over to stand
split into 2 far & middle
split into 2 middle & stand

I will go for all up the middle
altho I hope common sense prevails & the drawn 10 plus or so come stands side.

I could never understand McCririck giving Ladbrokes credit - "they knew" - for George Washington in the Guineas when the fact is they were longest about him at 6/1 after he'd won the Phoenix by eight lengths at two.

Right the jobs done i'm on red Duke at 110 win and 20 place...

No idea Geoff. After the debacle of the Cambridgeshire last year nothing would surprise me now.

Frenhc Fifteen seems to be weak on here at the moment, double the price of Abtaal. fwiw.

Bill Esdaile ‏ @BillEsdaile
Ground continues to dry out @NewmarketRace 11am Going Good to Soft GoingStick 7.1, Stand side: 7.0, Centre: 7.1, Far side: 7.2

Cmon d low numbers

Judging from the thread it looks like just about everyone will lose if Camelot goes and wins.

French Fifteen 14/1 and Top Offer 16/1 my antepost bets with stakes savers on Born To Sea and Abtaal. Just hope the draw dosen't play too big a part.

Good luck all.

just added Top offer @17,good luck all

John Oxx has just walked the course at Newmarket and told Bruce Jackson: "It's not bad at all - what we call yielding. It's not a worry to us and we won't be making excuses because of it even though Born To Sea prefers it faster

Ground not as bad for Top Offer as feared. I'm in.

Great run by French Fifteen, no complaints with the result. Well done Camelot backers!

Never good for me when the hot favourites win

French Fifteen ran a cracker and was clearly the 2nd best horse in the race - just wish I'd had some on the place.

Camelot won comfortably in the end and the Derby looks his for the taking -  though hopefully my long range fancy Bonfire (who was an unlucky 3rd to French Fifteen last year) may put it up to him. Was a good ride from Joseph as well so fair play to Coolmore.

Surely Hermival second best given where he was drawn?

Not many Camelot backers oh here which is fair enough as he was a short price. I wouldn't have backed him at 3/1 let alone 15/8.

wd Mr Dinos with FF.

Camelot what a beast!! Can't believe so many were against him

Agree with U unclepuncle, the two horses with the best turn of foot filled the first two places. A true run race with a true out come. Makes a nice change.

I don't know why they split into three groups, some of these jockeys are a joke!!!

After about half a mile Abtaal and the ones on the far side were hopelessly behind, maybe 6 lengths.

We will never know for sure, but my opinion is that Hermival lost because he was drawn low.

Cheers Sint, the EW money helped me out a bit, the win would have been better.

I'm not sure what French Fifteen has to do anymore! He wins the Criterium International but Bonfire should've won, he wins the Djebel but Abtaal shoud've won and now he comes a neck second to a horse that looks special and now Hermival is the one that should have finished second!

I give up, I'm like a one man French Fifteen band. Haha

I like french fifteen too, but the draw did seem to do Hermival in pretty well.

Hermival does come out with credit for sure but after watching the first two races I was amazed that Abtaal and Hermival's jockeys went that way.

I'm only messing cryofruth, Hermival ran a great race and won his side well. I don't why the jocks went over there in the first place. I wouldn't follow Soumillon at Newmarket if my life depended on it, he's not great at this track IMO.

Think those who raced on the far side raced on the faster ground and that hermival was possibly flattered to come
Third.  Winning time suggested the ground was bordering on heavy, the winner clocking a 10 length slower
time than Speciosa did over c/d in 2006 1,000 guineas.
Quite a few appeared unable to cope with the conditions.
For me Camelot and french fifteen where clearly the best 2 horses in the race on this ground. French
Fifteen showed a great attitude but Camelot was just too strong but not by much.
Abtaal probably didn't handle the ground and I didn't like his attitude and he won't be getting my money again. Trumpet major was given a strange ride but still ran well.
Apart from believing the french form was good I totally mis-judged this race. Guess your intrepretation
of the french form re Abtaal and French fifteen was right Mr Dinos, every credit.

Despite the slow winning time (or perhaps because of it, as it indicates that the ground was sticky/holding) I reckon that the likes of ABTAAL went off too fast and paid the penalty.  The first two home came from some way back.  I don't think the draw was a significant factor - it looked a level playing field (the COTC had previously told us that the ground was slightly faster on the far rail, but this was negated by the fact that most of the runners came centre to stand side), there was no obvious bias against the low-drawn horses.  HERMIVAL was given a better ride than ABTAAL, that's for sure.  I don't think it was a great Guineas, to be honest, but CAMELOT is clearly going to be a very interesting proposition in the Derby.

They definitely went too quick for the ground conditions imo. Played into the hands of the first two.

Agree with tinkler - the far side horses were probably flattered. Unless you think Coup de Ville and Ptolemaic are Classic horses, that is.

having seen the race again I take back a bit of the stuff about Hermival; the far side was so far behind, if at all, so the first 2 were probably there on merit.

It was a horrid race with the filed splitting into 3 groups and the going was plenty dead enough after all the rain, making it a real test of stamina.

No reason at all the crab the merit of the form of the first 3 home though. It will be interesting to see their progress through the season. Also interesting to see how a certain hooded brute progresses as well.

Hermival was 2 lengths in front of Camelot and French Fifteen with 2 to go.

Think the first two home would have won by 4/5 lengths had they raced on the far side

Oxx keeps faith in Born to Sea

Thursday, May 10, 2012


Trainer John Oxx will resist the temptation to bring Born To Sea back in distance after he finished 12th in the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on Saturday.

Famous more for being a half-brother to Sea The Stars, more than for his exploits on the track so far, he was beaten 10 lengths behind Camelot.

He was not given a hard time by Johnny Murtagh in the hope there are better days to come.

“The race was a bit of a non-event for him he just pulled too hard, even when the pace increased in the second furlong he still didn’t drop the bit,” said Oxx.

“He basically took off for three and a half to three furlongs, and that was that. Johnny wasn’t hard on him after that so it was a non-event, I’m afraid. If he settles better in future I’m sure he’ll run a good race.

“I think we’ll stick around the mile and if we do bring him back, it will only be by a furlong.”


Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/oxx-keeps-faith-in-born-to-s...