According to my records, four horses with significant funds bet on them were balloted out last year - Always Waining, Junior, Merigo and Ballyfitz. My snapshots of prices in the run up to the race show a total share of the book of about 10% for all of the balloted out horses, from Always Waining down to Regal Heights.

I think that BF may have missed the consequences of their proposals. For example, the new rule says "When the number of entries totals less than the allowed safety figure then exposure offset will be available again." In most (all?) cases, these races have reserves which are not stood down until after the ante-post book closes, so exposure offset is never available - Catch 22!

Having said that, I think it is reasonable to allow for the risk of naive players finding they have an unbudgeted dark red screen when bets on balloted out horses are voided. It would be good if they could do this without killing the market.

Any news from the people who were expecting telephone calls?

I have been told that it applies only to ante post horse race markets.  I agree that it shouldnt have been changed after a market has been activated.  The limitation is already in place on the Cheltenham markets.

Also expecting a call today

Meatloaf. BF normally allows offsetting so that the money you lay on one horse reduces
your exposure on any other horse you lay in the same race. Only one horse can win, after all.
Unfortunately, with the National, and some other races, a horse can be balloted out.
Normally, a non-runner is a loser, but with a balloted horse bets are voided. This means
that your exposure will increase because your field money has decreased (there's no
reduction factor like there is on day of the race markets). What they are doing now is
adding liabilities up instead of offsetting them against money fielded.

Same here Pete I think they are looking to help us out until after the National. We will see what the account turns to on Jan 31st.

it is whether you lay more than 1 horse in the race.
balloted out horses you lose the stake(field money).

Pete
I can't cover with my balance, but my understanding was that they will cover me to what I have laid so far but any new lay bets will be under the new rules and therefore reduce my current balance. I hope that I've understodod correctly as now is the time to lay with two big trials and a 120% + book and not all runners declared.

Just thinking.... the 2013 GN market is going to be very slow to get going.
I wonder if they'll give dispensation to selected layers.

Bigger margins for manual layers?

I doubt there are many people who come in and lay single horses. Not enough to make a market, anyway.

The minute you lay the second horse that you don't fancy, you double your liability. Third horse, treble it.

It would be interesting to compare liquidity from last year to this year in races where the new rule applies.

The GN 2013 will be the real test, though, because betting would normally be rolling along by the middle of
April, wouldn't it?

Pete

The way I was told it on Thursday, you don't double the liability by laying 2 horses. Your liability is your biggest loss only, with no offset for the second lay. It still deters the big layers, though.

I have written to them asking for clarification of exactly how it works in practice. I've also asked if stakes on scratched horses (e.g. Beautiful Sound and Meanus Dandy) will be offset to reduce the liability.

The guy I spoke to was very pleasant but didn't seem to understand the likely impact on the market. I pointed out to him that the total matched on the Thyestes was £2006 this year, and suggested that Betfair compare this with the market size in previous years. (My guess is that it was about 80% down).

It is hard to argue with the purpose of this change, but they need to think through how the impact can be limited (e.g. offsetting stakes on scratched runners and allowing offset for the top 40 in the handicap, neither of which will increase risk for them), otherwise the ante-post markets on races such as this will shrink dramatically. They may not be able to implement this for 2012 though, because they will need to write and test the software for the change.

We will see what the account turns to on Jan 31st

Well my balance was reduced by about £1200 which is a bit of a surprise as I was assured by the helpdesk twice last week that the place market would not be affected !!

Yes I've been wiped out. Have called Betfair and been told balance should be restored tomorrow when the market opens.

My understanding is the  balance to cover bets already laid on the national will be activated once the market reopens. We were warned it was being changed but as long as the balance is restored tomorrow I am ok with that. I don't agree with the change I still think the market should just be subject to a % of your laid bets to account for balloted out horses. I would have thought it would have made sense to ride out the 2012 GN market with the current rules and change it for next year.

It is good to know that my £1200 has gone to a good cause.

I can't work out what they've done. I need to ring them.

I hope I am as pleasantly surprised as you are Pete with my new balance when it occurs. £2.43 in my Australian market to play with tonight.

Betfair’s Customer Commitment
3.1 We'll provide helpful and professional customer service when you need it.

My experience over the last week, a customer of 10 years - Total Charges - £22,577.84p

Email received – 18/1 - As part of a racing review we have realised that there is a risk to customers that trade on certain ante-post markets horse racing markets. As a service to customers trading on markets we allow liabilities to be offset against other trades, if the trades are successful enough monies can be re-used for repeat trades  However in certain Ante-post markets there are occasions when horses can be taken out of a market and not settled as losers. As a result of this we are going to have to withdraw draw this liability offset in these markets .
Please could you contact betfair on 0844 871 0000 so we can advise you how this is going to affect your current positions.
Kind regards,
Betfair Helpdesk

Telephone call advised of a potential liability on Grand National – TBP market.  After cancelling all outstanding bets to free up funds to meet the new liability the following Email received – 20/1 upon enquiring when changes were to take place - Further to you enquiry regarding changes to our Antepost markets, I can confirm that the Grand National Ante Post "To Be Placed" market will not be updated. The date for the changes to take place on the Grand National Antepost Winners Market is the 31st January. I hope this answers you questions, however if you require anything further, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,
Betfair Helpdesk Duty Manager
Email sent - 20/1 - Is this a change in policy?  I just wonder why I got the original email and was then told when I telephoned that my Grand National market (I have no bets outstanding on the win market) would be affected.  Does this mean that this new rule only applies to win market and not place markets?

Email response – 20/1- Thank you for your e-mail.  It is a change in policy, at the moment only the Win market for the Grand National is affected.  I am sorry about the e-mail you received as, no, your To Be Placed bets will not be affected.  This was an administrative error.  Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.
Kind regards,
Betfair Helpdesk

After a sigh of relief I began reinstating bets.

31/1 – credit balance disappears.  Email sent - Has there been another change in policy or is this another administrative error?

Response - Thank you for your e-mail.  I can confirm the place market has now been affected by the change in policy on the Grand National Markets. It is not an administrative error.
Kind regards,
Betfair Helpdesk

Betfair’s Customer Commitment

3.1 We'll provide helpful and professional customer service when you need it.

Words and figures differ !

Just noticed they have a similar statement in rules for Betfair Handicap . Again this seems to have been introduced sometime after the market has been open without the rule .This changing of the rules retrospectively is an outrage . BF now so arrogant they think they can do what they like. I suggest this isn't simply bad customer service but plain breach of contract with customer

The experiences encountered by the Gopher just highlight the contempt betfair have for their clients.
I also agree with you wiseguy that these changes to the G.N market are definitely a breach of contract. You cannot make retrospective changes to a market that is 75% to its completed term. We need someone who has legal experience to take out an injunction against Betfair preventing from applying these new rules until a new market is in place.