CLERKWATCH 2012

I bet Turftrax dont stick that quote alongside Seamus Buckleys testimony on their Website

Although it can be very apt at times

We need to get at em this year.
See if Maxse is as approachable as Paul Struthers was........

Morning JJ, Zil...

Nice to see you posting again pal :)

Not long until the Flat Season(oh and the description of Good to soft,Heavy. firm, good in places(delete as appropriate) for the supreme novice hurdle)

Timeform speak up on the watering issue at last

Ground at Donny is pretty quick at the moment, grass cover is better than this time last year. Over the last couple of weeks we've had very little rain and dry forecast until tuesday now, so I'm not backing any soft ground horses for the lincoln at the moment.

It looked awful last spring

I know its far from ideal, but courses should be putting plenty of water on at the moment. It has been so dry and unless they put moisture into the ground now to get grass growing etc, the rest of the season could be much worse by having to over water when it gets warmer to avoid firm going.

Also trainers are far less likely to run horses at the start of the season on firmish ground as it could ruin their season

Lets hope they have already done that, its selective watering and aiming for good ground instead of the BHA's remit of good to firm that im mainly on about

Take a look at these ridiculous stick readings at Donny and try to make sense of them!!

No rain for ages, he hasnt even issued a reading(with the history im not surprised)

eeting Date    Official Going    GoingStick Index
03-Mar-12    Good    8.9
02-Mar-12    Good    9.1
22-Feb-12    Good    9.3
09-Feb-12    Abandoned    no information
28-Jan-12    Good to Soft (Soft in places)    8.4
11-Jan-12    Good (Good to Soft in places)    9
29-Dec-11    Good to Soft (Good in places)
Changed to Good to Soft after race 1    8.9
10-Dec-11    Good to Soft    no information
09-Dec-11    Good to Soft    8.4
25-Nov-11    Good to Firm (Good in places)(watered)    C: 8.7
H: 8.9
05-Nov-11    Straight Course: Good to Soft (Soft in places)
Round Course: Soft (Good to Soft in places)
Round changed to Soft after Race 1    6.9
22-Oct-11    Good    9
21-Oct-11    Straight Course: Good
Round Course: Good (Good to Soft in places)    8.9
10-Sep-11    Good to Firm    Overall: 8.6
Far side: 8.5
Stand side: 8.7
on Friday at 09:00
09-Sep-11    Good (Good to Firm in places)    Overall: 8.6
Round: 8.4
Straight: 8.7
Home Straight: Far side: 8.5
Stand side: 8.7
08-Sep-11    Good    Overall: 8.5
Round: 8.2
Straight: 8.8
Home Straight: Far side: 8.6
Stand side: 8.6
07-Sep-11    Good    Overall: 8.2
Home Straight: Far side: 8.6
Stand side: 8.5
07-Sep-11    Good (Good to Firm in places)    Overall: 8.2
Home Straight: Far side: 8.6
Stand side: 8.5
13-Aug-11    Straight: Good
Round: Good (Good to Firm in places)    7.3 on Friday at 15:00
30-Jul-11    Good to Firm (Watered)    7.4
21-Jul-11    Good (Good to Soft in places on the Round Course)    7.4
on Wednesday at 4pm
14-Jul-11    Good to Firm (Watered)    7.3
07-Jul-11    Good to Firm (Watered)    7.8
01-Jul-11    Good to firm (Watered)    6.7 on Thursday at 07:15
25-Jun-11    Good to Firm    6.7
24-Jun-11    Good to Firm    6.4
12-Jun-11    Good to Soft (Soft in places)
(after race 4)    Straight: 6.5
Round: 6.7 on Sunday at 07:00
12-Jun-11    Straight: Good to Soft (after race 2)
Round: Good (after race 1)    Straight: 6.5
Round: 6.7 on Sunday at 07:00
12-Jun-11    Straight: Good
Round: Good to Firm (Good in places)    Straight: 6.5
Round: 6.7 on Sunday at 07:00
04-Jun-11    Good to Firm (Watered)    7.3
03-Jun-11    Good to Firm (Good in places)
(Watered)    6.9
14-May-11    Good (Good to Firm in places)    7.6 on Saturday at 07:00
30-Apr-11    Straight Course: Good to Firm (Watered)
Round Course: Good to Firm (Good in places) (Watered)    8.7 on Saturday at 10:00
29-Apr-11    Straight: Good to Firm (watered)
Round: Good (Good to Firm in places)
(watered)    8.5 on Thursday at 16:00
16-Apr-11    Good to Firm (Good in places)(Watered)    8.5
03-Apr-11    Good (Good to Firm in places)    no information
02-Apr-11    Good    7.8 on Saturday at 07:00
05-Mar-11    Good    7.7 on Saturday at 07:30
04-Mar-11    Good    C: 7.5
H: 7.9
23-Feb-11    Good to Soft (Soft in places)    7.1
29-Jan-11    Meeting abandoned    no information
28-Jan-11    Good (Good to Firm in places)    8.7 on Friday at 10:00
12-Jan-11    Good    8.4
11-Dec-10    Abandoned due to snow and frozen ground    no information
10-Dec-10    Abandoned due to frost and snow.    no information
06-Nov-10    Good to Soft (Soft in places)    6.6
23-Oct-10    Good (Good to Soft in places)    7.5
22-Oct-10    Good (Good to Soft in places)    7.4
11-Sep-10    Good    Round: 8.0
Stand side: 8.2
Centre: 8.6
Far side: 8.5
10-Sep-10    Good    Round: 8.3
Stand side: 8.2
Centre: 8.5
Far side: 8.5


Next Page

The guy is a liar, pure and simple. Previous clerk was open to quetions from anyone, this one answers until anyone disagrees with him. I've never seen him use the going stick, but I regularly see him doing a weird lurch down the straight mile (like something from the ministry of funny walks) slamming his walking stick from shoulder height into the ground with each stride. His going descriptions are nonsense, the only thing you can be sure of is that they are incorrect.
Apart from that I'm a big admirer of his!

Cheers TM, does it look an even surface this year?? Or will i be middle to stands again??

Just walked the straight mile. Loads of water has gone on in the last few days, but to me it's still quick side of good. I think it's pretty even across the track and the only reason the draw will be taken into account by me is to find the speed. I'll walk it again tomorrow afternoon.

Cheers TM, It would be nice if we could find around 40 people who lived just outside each racecourse around the country just for the updates

Just back in, I think quicker now than it was last night, and I'd say it's currently good/firm all over. He'll water tomorrow though.

Not been impressed with the ground at Donny,it would appear to my eyes that there's been too much watering going on

Agreed, he's happy to say live on telly that he's watering to maintain GOOD ground!

Not a great start to the year, get on to the authorities about wasting water

Unfortunately they have their own bore hole!

Aintree do it again

RIpon doing a not very fine job of keeping their Going Report on the BHA website updated for the meeting this Saturday 28/4.  They have history of doing this before.

Clerks been over doing the watering again, look at the state of the going at the tracks again today, meetings abandoned all week and this weekend already, there's supposed to be a drought ffs . They cover the tracks for frost why can't they do it for excessive rain. Be a good idea if the had like a tent style so the water runs off them onto the side of the track, will have to go and see if I can get it patented before it takes off big style, especially with all this global warming going on It's going to be June before we get firm in any going description at this rate and that's if its not raining then, Seamus down at Goodwood must be in his element watering away with his machine down there, trying to maintain good to heavy going for the glorius meeting .

How's everyone doing by the way not posted on here for ages, Zil and Jonjo OK ?

Fine thanks Stu

So you are going to blame the COCs for all the recent rainfall as well?

A Morshead on RUK now, a habitual rail mover and no info up on the BHA site when at Musselburgh, and now assistant at York, one of the best run tracks in the country for informing on rail movements. If yer man Derby takes a holiday, the place could go hoop up.

Haydock were up to the usual standard last saturday, according to them the jumps course was softer, results look slightly strange then as they dicked standard in the 3 miler and all the flat races seemed about 0-40 slow per furlong

Mark Johnston today.

17th May 2012


I called the Clerk of The Course at Doncaster this morning and asked him if he had been on holiday. I assumed he must have been away as everyone else knows that it has rained nearly every day in Yorkshire for the last month and yet he is watering.
It cannot be right and I can only assume that he simply doesn’t know what Good-Firm ground, for Flat racehorses, is.
It is raining here in Middleham now although my iPhone tells me that it is dry in Doncaster. However, it also tells me that it is forecast to rain in Doncaster tomorrow and on Saturday. I am almost certain that the ground will be softer than good and, if that is the case, I would be wrong to run Elkhaart.
As we do not charge our owners any expenses (staff, travelling, racing plates etc.) if their horse doesn’t race, non-runners have been costing us dearly in recent weeks. In all cases to date, there is nobody to blame for that – they can’t do anything about the weather – but this is a very different scenario and, if the ground is soft, Doncaster should be forced to compensate us for our losses.



Mick Channon ‏@Mick_Channon_TV
Watering at Doncaster. I'm trying to run a business. Are they? Livid.


understandable rage imo

The mind boggles....

Have Newm overdone the description for today? Times don't indicate Good to Firm!

9mm overnight at Doncaster, so Mark Johnston was correct

Id say a refund for connections who dont want to run on this ground would be in order..

Heyup fellas. Didn't realise there was a thread up this season. Hope you are all keeping well?

20th May 2012


This morning we took six two-year-olds to gallop at Haydock on their newly refurbished track. I was most impressed. It looks in terrific condition and, despite the wettest spring in my memory it was remarkably good ground.
I walked the track after the gallop and, although I could see each footprint, there were no divots turned over. On closer inspection I could put my finger about two inches into the toe of each hoofprint. I asked how Haydock would describe this ground and I was told it was Good-Soft. This is in stark contrast to the ground at Doncaster last night where the horses were turning over great clods of earth and returning with mud up above their fetlocks. It was certainly much softer than the Haydock ‘Good-Soft’ ground and yet it was described as ‘Good’.
Surely we can devise a simple system based on analysis of times, wind, finishing positions and other objective parameters to assess the true state of the ground after a race meeting. Then, when certain Clerks of the Course are found to consistently mislead us on the true state of the ground and/or mismanage the racecourse (e.g. by watering when the ground is already softer than optimum and rain is forecast), the management should be penalised.




17th May 2012


I called the Clerk of The Course at Doncaster this morning and asked him if he had been on holiday. I assumed he must have been away as everyone else knows that it has rained nearly every day in Yorkshire for the last month and yet he is watering.
It cannot be right and I can only assume that he simply doesn’t know what Good-Firm ground, for Flat racehorses, is.
It is raining here in Middleham now although my iPhone tells me that it is dry in Doncaster. However, it also tells me that it is forecast to rain in Doncaster tomorrow and on Saturday. I am almost certain that the ground will be softer than good and, if that is the case, I would be wrong to run Elkhaart.
As we do not charge our owners any expenses (staff, travelling, racing plates etc.) if their horse doesn’t race, non-runners have been costing us dearly in recent weeks. In all cases to date, there is nobody to blame for that – they can’t do anything about the weather – but this is a very different scenario and, if the ground is soft, Doncaster should be forced to compensate us for our losses.



16th May 2012 very early am

Just home from dinner at James and Sally Bethell’s (great night) and I am watching Racing UK while catching up on my e mails. Anthea Morshead has just been on telling us that the fact that jockeys spread all the way across the track looking for the ‘golden highway’ at York confirms that there is no bias. Sorry, Anthea, I don’t agree. Whenever I see horses spread right across the track I think that the race is a mess.
She also told us that, for five and six furlong races, the stalls would be placed in the middle of the track. Why?
Prepare yourself for more controversy at York.



8th May 2012

I agree with Mick Channon’s comments about the placing of the stalls in the middle of the track at the Guineas meeting. It is a regular scenario these days and it seems that, somehow, clerks of courses have been convinced that placing the stalls in the middle of the track will reduce bias and provide a fairer race. Or, more likely, they simply think that, by placing the stalls in such a way, they will spread the field across the track and, by so doing, make better use of the available ground.
We even see some cases where the stalls are placed on the disadvantageous side of the course to try and prevent jockeys from congregating on the fastest strip.
As Mick Channon said, it results in messy races with a huge bias and a very poor spectacle to watch.
It is much better when the horses have a rail to race down and jockeys know what they have to do to try and overcome any bias. At least we then see the horses racing as a group.
That said, the situation at Chester is even more ridiculous when we have a situation whereby the worst drawn horses are so disadvantaged that they may as well not turn up. It is no surprise that many of the poorly drawn horses, particularly in the sprints, will be withdrawn and the authorities, rather than look to force connections to run their horse, should be asking themselves whether it is acceptable to run races with such a bias.
Heavy Metal is drawn 14 of 14 over five furlongs on Wednesday and I am wondering whether it is physically possible to win from that draw. Has it ever been done?

Some good MJ rants there, but he really ought to have told us what Sally Bethell served up for dinner.......

Agree with him on the other stuff though, Doncaster a sick joke watering.

will the mad irishman at goodwood be turning on the taps for this weeks fixture now that its dried out to good and the warm weather has arrived

Would love to know why Newbury consider it worthy to water for this weekends meeting on a going stick reading of 7.5, its only been a week since the Lockinge and the ground seemed soft enough then

Goodwood as usual will water when it even gets near a stick reading of 8??


Silly season is approaching

11.5 at Haydock today

Rupert Trevelyan, Epsom supremo said this morning they are watering every day with the intention of having good to soft for the Derby meeting.
Wonder if Andrew Cooper agrees with him?

remember when john oxx threatened to withdraw sea the stars anytime the going was too soft and CoCs everywhere suddenly stopped watering and prayed that they got no more rain on top of the overwatered slosh that they had been working towards.

adamski, is this a joke, intention of having good/ soft

That's what the guy said elisjohn, I've just listened to it again on the Talksport website, it's at about 6.55 am on the Brazil breakfast show.

madness, cheers adam

After the watering, Epsom ( ok according to COC ) is Good to Firm with possibilities of showers.

So guys in your infinite wisdom with the weather we have been having, do you think they should not have watered?

epsom never watered for the first 200 years and never had a problem and the good fast going is what made the race the top 3yo race in the world.

it is a bit like glorious goodwood.
for a hundred years it was the best flat meeting of the year with exciting racing and close finishes all over the place.
now they regularly overwater and some years the single file racing on the mud is so poor that nobody cares much about it.   

the best flat meeting of the season reduced to an uninteresting slog by a CoC who knows absolutely nothing about racehorses.

Outpost,you have just hit the nail on the head,i went to ggoodwood for about 25 yrs and can remember the ground being like a road,never heard of any problems then,makes you wonder

ardross,dancing brave,brigadier gerard, kris, triptych,oh so sharp, recall these horses winning on really fast groud,didnt harm their careers, yes ok msome horses it could shorten their careers, but fla racing for me is top class horses running on good or faster ground.

EPSOM SET TO WATER AGAIN


Epsom clerk of the course Andrew Cooper could water the track to keep the current going description of good, good to firm in places.

The track has missed the forecast thunderstorms in the area and little rain is forecast after Wednesday.

Cooper told At The Races: "I think it would ride as good fast ground, which for summer Classics we should be racing on.

"The last two nights we've had suggestions of thunderstorms which have missed us completely. The last prospect of any rain for us seems to be Wednesday with the possibility of showers coming in from the west.

"They are not expected to be particularly heavy, but we could just catch something. Then it looks like it will cool down and stay dry. If we don't see any rain today I think we will have to do something to the track.

"We don't need a lot (of water) at this stage. It's just a question of keeping it where it is. That means on a daily basis putting on about three millimetres of water."

AOB has threatened to pull one of his oaks horses out if the ground isn't softer.

(camelot likes good to soft as well)

soft ground on friday then i suppose, and looks theyve **** the draw

Personally at this stage, I think they have handled the watering in the right way for Epsom. However after what he has said, if AOB does run Kissed then it is likely to a bit slower than advertised.

Anthea Morshead at Ayr today. Track at full width. Useless information as usual.

any news at epsom, any rain?

usually they give the going as good to firm no matter what the going really is. 

so epsom could well be good to firm (slippy in places)

Pontefract now post on the BHA site :
PONTEFRACT - Flat (Updated:01/06/2012 at 06:31:44)   
Going
Good to Firm
(GoingStick: 8.7 on Friday at 06:30)

Stalls
Inside all races

Rails
False rail is in place over the last 6 furlongs.
The rail is about 15 feet from the inside rail and will add
approx 12yds to all races.

years after I rang them personally and told them moving the rail out 15 feet must have an affect, they said no...

Divots flying left right & centre

A brief synopsis of Chester racecourse. 31 meetings since 2010, and 6 of them raced on the racetrack proper (19%). 81% of meetings run on a moved rails basis. Must be the most rail moved track in the country. Taking the p is what it is.

Id imagine that Goodwood must be high as well

And?

Meaning race distances and therefore time ratings may carry some degree of uncertainty, Haydock ran one last year that was nearly half a furlong shorter

racing tomorrow at Chester on standard track makes it 7 from 32 nearly 22%. Still seems too low for me.

But this information is known before the racing takes place so is it not possible to adjust to make your bets and record and adjust ratings afterwards?

no rail movements will equal less mistakes for all involved in the sport. Surely this makes sense...

So race on exactly the same strip of ground irrespective of weather conditions etc? Sorry but how would that benefit owners, trainers and jockeys exactly?

never mind. im busy.

That's what they do at Thirsk, never seen em put a running rail in on the top bend, irrespective of the damage on the inside 'racing line', & I've walked it plenty of times........Funny thing, you never hear a word of trainers complaining about it?

You spoted them JJ,,, So they had to act fast.. rofl.

THIRSK - Flat (Updated:19/06/2012 at 06:29:48)   

Going
GOOD to SOFT, GOOD in PLACES
(GoingStick: 8.0 on Monday at 15:00)

Stalls
Round Course - Inside
Rails
Rail moved out 3-4 yards on both bends to preserve inner; this
adds approximately 12 yards to races over 7F and 1M and
approximately 17 yards to distances in excess of 1M.

Weather
No rain since Saturday and a fair, drying, past 48 hrs. Dry
overnight and a fair day forecast.

Other
Clerk of the Course - James Sanderson, Tel 07850 058019
Head Groundsman - Steve Kelsey, Tel 07801 685611

Disgraceful going descriptions at Ascot and Ayr today. Putting punters away. 18mm of rain at Ayr and they give Good to Firm!

Can reports that Windsor are 'selectively watering' really be true in the current climate?

And if they are, why is no one from the BHA investigating why this needs to be done?

And why aren't the betting public given more detail when this 'selective' watering' does take place?

Gross profits tax gone mad imo........

Maybe someone more scientific than me can give their opinion on todays rail movements at Sandown and Andrew Cooper's yardage of a an extra five yards....
that rail out looked a bit more than 5 yards extra travelled to me...

BEVERLEY - Flat (Updated:23/07/2012 at 09:13:48)   
Going
Good to Firm, Good in places
(GoingStick: 8.4 on Monday at 08:30)

Stalls
Inside (all races)

Rails
All race distances as advertised

Weather
Dry overnight. Monday - 24C, warm and sunny.

Watering
No watering to take place. Still moisture in the ground and
think watering could produce false patches.

Ha! How long's it taken them to find that out

"Points re Raceday Management is that CoC are told to avoid Firm going at all costs as increases likelihood of injuries, and they should always work to getting the ground to as close to “Good” as possible, unlucky you fast ground lovers!"

http://dgkelly84.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/overview-of-british-racing-seminar/

Leicester pleased to be racing

After losing five consecutive meetings due to waterlogging they are due to race at Leicester tonight on ground described as good to soft, good in places.

Leicester clerk Jimmy Stevenson said: “It has been a dreadful summer for us. The ground is quite patchy due to the nature of the drying. It will probably ride very dead.” 

roughly translated that means "it's been really bad. We have hardly been able to water at all this year"

looking ahead to goodwood next week when will that lunatic irishman start watering to produce the soft ground he loves so much? i reckon the taps will be on by friday even though rain could be on its way by the weekend

As "Close to good as possible" is an alarming story, if adhered to it could provide all kinds of excuses for COC'S

Why is the aim of "Good to firm" for flat courses being altered??

GOING LATEST

The going at Goodwood is currently GOOD.

Clerk of the Course Seamus Buckley reported today: "We are where we want to be with Glorious Goodwood now less than a week away and the going is good all over.

"We will begin watering tomorrow to maintain the current conditions.

"We had been forecast a shower on Friday but the chances of this arriving have died away and there is now no rain forecast until Monday and even then it is predicted to be light."

thank god seamus is on the ball those soft ground horses that havent had their favoured conditions all year can now look forward to a potential mudbath next week

Having been originally quite amused at this thread, I completely agree that what Goodwood are doing is quite frankly wrong.

Turtle Island has been supplemented for the Sussex Stakes, I hear.

^ - a genuinely funny post

Course    Ascot
Next Race    Friday 27th July
Report Date    Friday 27th July; 10:30 am
Going    Good to Firm (Firm in places)
GoingStick    Straight Standside: 10.7, Centre: 10.9, Farside: 11.2, Round: 10.1
Additional Information    May water friday night after racing

11.2 proper fast ground at last

GOODWOOD (Updated: 9:16)    Good

    (GoingStick: 8.0 on Tuesday at 09:00)

    Stalls: Straight course Stand side. Round course inside except 1m
     4f.which is outside

    The running rail on the lower bend has been dolled out 6 yards
    from the 6 furlong marker to the winning post increasing race
    distances by approximately 10 yards.
        The running rail on the top bend has been dolled out 3 yards
        increasing race distances by approximately 5 yards.

    2 mm of rain overnight.
    Light rain this morning, clearing away mid morning and giving
    a dry bright afternoon.

Buckley sounds absolutely terrified of any possiblity of good to firm ground, unbelievable.

Slop by saturday isnt out of the question

GOODWOOD (Updated: 9:12)    Good

    (GoingStick: 8.2 on Wednesday at 09:00)

    Stalls: Straight course Stand side. Round course inside except 1m
    Stalls: 4f.which is outside 2m 5f.race flip start.
    The running rail on the lower bend has been dolled out 6 yards
    from the 6 furlong marker to the winning post increasing race
    distances by approximately 10 yards. The running rail on the
    top bend has been dolled out 3 yards increasing race distances
    by approximately 5 yards.

    Dry overnight and a dry day ahead.
We had heavy rain this morning in the west Country and they said it was moving across the country, but I suppose it could miss Goodwood.

Ummmmm....

GOODWOOD - Flat (Updated:02/08/2012 at 07:41:19)   

Going
Good
(GoingStick: To be updated on Thursday at 09:00)

Stalls
Straight course Stand side. Round course inside except 1m
Rails
The running rail on the lower bend has been dolled out 6 yards
from the 6 furlong marker into the straight increasing race
distances by approximately 8 yards. The running rail on the
top bend has been dolled out 3 yards increasing race distances
by approximately 5 yards.

Weather
Showers overnight

Watering
Following a couple of incidents on the outer loop yesterday the
grass in that area was cut shorter and watered so the going in
that area may ride slightly easier then other parts of the
course.This was carried out at the request of the leading
jockeys.
Other
Fresh ground last 3 furlongs up the the straight

Ayr latest: Early news
It's bright, dry but chilly up here in south west Scotland. The going is heavy. The GoingStick is 8.0, but the readings on the round course are far side 7.9, middle 7.8, stand side 8.0.
By Colin Russell, live from Ayr (26 mins ago)

How can it be heavy going with that going stick reading !!!

September 27th
NEWMARKET (R-H) (GOOD (Overall 7.4, Stands' side 7.5; Centre 7.2; Far side 7.3)

Today Good to Soft (Overall 7.3, Stands' side 7.3; Centre 7.2; Far side 7.3)

going looks near enough the same to me, these stewards know how to put the punters away

Good spot Stu not surprised though

Not far off good at HQ, although the rail looks a little bit faster

Newbury going stick reading of 6.7 with the going at good to firm