Horse Antepost
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02 Nov 11
22:24
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Date Joined:
01 Nov 09
Outstanding renewal in store with Long Run, Kauto Star, Diamond Harry, Weird Al, Time for Rupert and possibly even Grand Crus all intended runners at this point. Long Run will be making his seasonal bow and I think can be opposed at the prices, odds on everywhere bar PP's who go evens. Bearing in mind he'll probably come on for his first run(like he did last year), not to mention the quality of opposition he's likely to encounter at Haydock, his current odds represent no value whatsoever and he can be readily opposed here. I am hopeful too that he will be available at better odds for the Gold Cup after this
Diamond Harry 10/1 (no morals) is the value. I think had he run he'd have won the Charlie Hall. He won the Fixed Brush at Haydock off top weight in 09 and a repeat of that or his Hennessy victory last year might well be enough. His setback is a concern(I believe it was just a minor knock) but he's that type of horse and his strike-rate makes up for such concerns. Or at least at 10/1 I'm willing to take the chance it will.
I see no reason why Weird Al should not confirm placings with Time For Rupert and he is clearly a danger to all in current form. I do think however that DH is notch above both of those and will be racing 1st time out which is when to catch him.
Kauto Star will keep them all honest but is simply not the force of old at this level. He should have been retired immediately after his heroics in the Gold Cup. He wasn't though and can be backed at 12/1 for this. He wouldn't be of much interest to me at twice those odds to be honest.
Those who like an outsider could do worse than Planet of Sound. He looked in need of a break from the game last season and was duly given one after a lackluster performance in the King George. Not seen since he has gone well fresh before and possesses the raw ability to belie his odds of 40/1, even in company such as this.
Suggestions
Lay Long Run @ odds on
Back Diamond Harry @ 10/1
Diamond Harry 10/1 (no morals) is the value. I think had he run he'd have won the Charlie Hall. He won the Fixed Brush at Haydock off top weight in 09 and a repeat of that or his Hennessy victory last year might well be enough. His setback is a concern(I believe it was just a minor knock) but he's that type of horse and his strike-rate makes up for such concerns. Or at least at 10/1 I'm willing to take the chance it will.
I see no reason why Weird Al should not confirm placings with Time For Rupert and he is clearly a danger to all in current form. I do think however that DH is notch above both of those and will be racing 1st time out which is when to catch him.
Kauto Star will keep them all honest but is simply not the force of old at this level. He should have been retired immediately after his heroics in the Gold Cup. He wasn't though and can be backed at 12/1 for this. He wouldn't be of much interest to me at twice those odds to be honest.
Those who like an outsider could do worse than Planet of Sound. He looked in need of a break from the game last season and was duly given one after a lackluster performance in the King George. Not seen since he has gone well fresh before and possesses the raw ability to belie his odds of 40/1, even in company such as this.
Suggestions
Lay Long Run @ odds on
Back Diamond Harry @ 10/1
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This race was worth virtually the same as the KG last year so I think its unlikely fitness will be an issue for Long run.It's no prep race. On last years form he's significantly better than these. The problem is that
time and time again you see these chasers produce one great year then thats it (Imperial Commander is a shining
example). Thats what made KS and Denmans achievements so great. Long run is a young horse though and is relatively lightly raced so maybe he's a best mate type. I wouldn't be keen on opposing him but would need
6/4 + to consider backing him.
time and time again you see these chasers produce one great year then thats it (Imperial Commander is a shining
example). Thats what made KS and Denmans achievements so great. Long run is a young horse though and is relatively lightly raced so maybe he's a best mate type. I wouldn't be keen on opposing him but would need
6/4 + to consider backing him.
If there is a bit more rain, I think Rubi Light could do well. Young and progressive, a great jumper and he travels like a dream in his races. 14/1 with most layers atm, he's a very interesting entry. Trainer was quoted that this is the plan, final decision to be made tomorrow after a workout.
I'm on Rubi Light at 40/1 for the Gold Cup so want a big run from him. Is Kauto e/w value at 8/1?? Sadly got this funny feeling he's going to fall :(
In answer to my own question. I notice Paul Webber said today he thinks Haydock will not play to TFR's strengths and that beating Long Run is a pipe dream round there. Probably explains the drift. He does however expect the run at Wetherby to have brought him on. That has dampened my enthusiasm a little, but I still think he's got a decent chance at shaking up the big guns there
I always thought Weird Al was overrated until the Charlie Hall where I was very impressed with the way he went about his business and if in the same sort of form he must be a player.If the ground remains good and Kauto is ridden from the front think he will run a decent race also.No reason to think that Long Run may be short on fitness but im still not 100% convinced about his jumping, although if he does jump well,his the one to beat
Will backing Weird Al win & place
Will backing Weird Al win & place
Diamond Harry has such an amazing first time out record that he'd have to be my pick at around 7/1 - though the fact he was clearly trained and ready for the Charlie Hall before the last minute problem may be a little negative - will he actually be 100% fresh for the Betfair?
Diamond Harry still has a lot to prove to me. Winning the Hennesey of bottom weight of 10stone doesnt mean he has proved he can mix it at top level. Also, ongoing training difficulties mean I wont be playing on DH.
Giddy I have always rated Weird and thought he would have won the sun allaince the year he got injured. That may have proved a blessing. DH with Little Josh (subsequent PP winner) over 2.5miles proved to me he has speed. Very disappointing after that but now seems back to best and change of stables also perked him up.
Long Run, may have been flattered last year running against so chasers on the decline (Kauto, Denman, WAF). New generation coming through and this makes saturday race so exciting.
Hope Weird Al can bridge the gap to this level and win bet for me.
Giddy I have always rated Weird and thought he would have won the sun allaince the year he got injured. That may have proved a blessing. DH with Little Josh (subsequent PP winner) over 2.5miles proved to me he has speed. Very disappointing after that but now seems back to best and change of stables also perked him up.
Long Run, may have been flattered last year running against so chasers on the decline (Kauto, Denman, WAF). New generation coming through and this makes saturday race so exciting.
Hope Weird Al can bridge the gap to this level and win bet for me.
DH has a lot to prove to me as well.A load of soft ground nov hurdle wins,and a Hennessey win with 10st.Not one bit of winning form in a decent race on good ground as far as i can remember.
Overrated imo.
Certainly yet to prove top class over fences.
Overrated imo.
Certainly yet to prove top class over fences.
can anyone clarify antepost betting rules, if i took Kauto each way at 1/5 first 3 will those each way terms stand now there are only 7 runners or does it change to 1/4 first 2 like it would if the bet was placed on the day of the race? Thanks in advance
Just had a look at DH Chases.Hes run 4 times,one on heavy ground beating Knockara Beau,one on G/S beating Bensalem.
Then pulled up on good ground in the RSA,and won the Hennessey with bottom weight on G/S.
Where on earth is the form that gives him a chance of beating those horses he meets on Saturday.
Then pulled up on good ground in the RSA,and won the Hennessey with bottom weight on G/S.
Where on earth is the form that gives him a chance of beating those horses he meets on Saturday.
Well on the figures DH, TFR, WA all have no chance of beating an on song Long Run or a near top form Kauto Star.
I think where most people are coming from is that thewy want to oppose Long Run (first time out at odds on) and feel Kauto has seen better days - of the rest DH is top rated and always run well fresh.
If it weren't for Webber saying TFR won't be suited by the course (is he just getting his excuses in early?) I'd give him a great chance too.
I think where most people are coming from is that thewy want to oppose Long Run (first time out at odds on) and feel Kauto has seen better days - of the rest DH is top rated and always run well fresh.
If it weren't for Webber saying TFR won't be suited by the course (is he just getting his excuses in early?) I'd give him a great chance too.
Personally around flatter tracks, like Haydock and newbury,I think that DH was a very useful animal. The problem
is ,is he the same horse after a significant injury. It would be no great surprise to see him give Long run a
race at a track like Haydock, yet at it would be no surprise to see him pulling up 3 out ,not being the
same horse he was a year ago. If he retains his abilty 7/1+ is probably a decent price, if the injury and time
off have seen a significant decline in his abilty then 100/1 would be a poor price.
So the questions are 1.Does he have enough abilty under Saturdays conditions? I think yes
2.Will have retained that abilty? Very difficult to assess given the injury and long absence and your forced to make an educated guess. My guess is that he won't have and for that reason are far
as betting on this horse goes I'm out.
is ,is he the same horse after a significant injury. It would be no great surprise to see him give Long run a
race at a track like Haydock, yet at it would be no surprise to see him pulling up 3 out ,not being the
same horse he was a year ago. If he retains his abilty 7/1+ is probably a decent price, if the injury and time
off have seen a significant decline in his abilty then 100/1 would be a poor price.
So the questions are 1.Does he have enough abilty under Saturdays conditions? I think yes
2.Will have retained that abilty? Very difficult to assess given the injury and long absence and your forced to make an educated guess. My guess is that he won't have and for that reason are far
as betting on this horse goes I'm out.
I can buy into the argument that Long Run beat horses in decline last year and that he is taking on a new generation.
You have to also bear in mind though that he is the youngest horse in the field and therefore should be the one open to most improvement.
Of the others, Weird Al would now appear to have least questions to answer (the main one being is this race too soon after Charlie Hall for him). Nacarat apparently found the ground too tacky at Wetherby but he and the others were a long way behind WA and TFR.
You have to also bear in mind though that he is the youngest horse in the field and therefore should be the one open to most improvement.
Of the others, Weird Al would now appear to have least questions to answer (the main one being is this race too soon after Charlie Hall for him). Nacarat apparently found the ground too tacky at Wetherby but he and the others were a long way behind WA and TFR.
I think Rease that is what makes this race so fascinating, we will all know where we stand after this one, cant wait
Point i am making Tinkler,is that DH has no form whatsoever that puts him in with a chance of beating these horses at level weights,yet people are touting his chances.
You say if he retains his ability hes a good price at 7,what ability is that mate??
Way i see it he has shown the ability to beat average handicappers and win a decent race with bottom weight.I see no ability that gives him an earthly of
beating top horses at level weights.
To me its all hype with this horse which started with his racking up a sequence of soft ground novice hurdles,and is still going now.
You say if he retains his ability hes a good price at 7,what ability is that mate??
Way i see it he has shown the ability to beat average handicappers and win a decent race with bottom weight.I see no ability that gives him an earthly of
beating top horses at level weights.
To me its all hype with this horse which started with his racking up a sequence of soft ground novice hurdles,and is still going now.
DIAMOND HARRY.......owner Paul Duffy said: "He got cast in his box overnight we think. It's obviously very disappointing. We hope it is not serious.
"He's in the Hennessy, but obviously we will have to see how he is."
The above was the quote immediately after the Charlie Hall. Didnt sound too optimistic and looks like the betfair wasnt the plan at that time. For me it just one thing after another with this horse.
"He's in the Hennessy, but obviously we will have to see how he is."
The above was the quote immediately after the Charlie Hall. Didnt sound too optimistic and looks like the betfair wasnt the plan at that time. For me it just one thing after another with this horse.
Diamond Harry may not be absolute top class (i.e 170+) but he is pretty bloody good over both hurdles and fences. He also might not be the hardiest of battlers, can hang and be a difficult ride, and is clearly fragile as well.
Over hurdles he was running all over Big Bucks 2 out in the Long Walk (at Newbury) and as has been the case with every other horse, couldn't match Big Bucks in the last furling. He gave Burton Port over a stone and hacked all over him at Haydock - the same Burton Port who went on to be 2nd in the RSA behind Weapons Amnesty and then hacked up in the big novice race at Aintree.
Over fences he's only had 4 runs and thrashed a good yardstick in Knockara Beau first time out, then beaten Bensalem (who but for falling would have won two WH H'Cap's at the festival) and after dissapointing in the RSA (like many before him) he then wins a Hennessey Cognac.
Hardly all hype - and to be fair the owner and trainer have never been saying he's a world beater.
Over hurdles he was running all over Big Bucks 2 out in the Long Walk (at Newbury) and as has been the case with every other horse, couldn't match Big Bucks in the last furling. He gave Burton Port over a stone and hacked all over him at Haydock - the same Burton Port who went on to be 2nd in the RSA behind Weapons Amnesty and then hacked up in the big novice race at Aintree.
Over fences he's only had 4 runs and thrashed a good yardstick in Knockara Beau first time out, then beaten Bensalem (who but for falling would have won two WH H'Cap's at the festival) and after dissapointing in the RSA (like many before him) he then wins a Hennessey Cognac.
Hardly all hype - and to be fair the owner and trainer have never been saying he's a world beater.
Just to reiterate - people are simply opposing Long Run due to the price and feel Kauto may be over the hill - of the others he is top rated, and goes extra well first time out, so thats why some people are tipping him on Saturday - it dosen't mean anyone expects him to win a Gold Cup or become a 170+ horse.
not owners and trainers,but plenty on here and a few in the media.
You can say what you like,but looking at the formbook i dont see any form over fences that puts him in the same bracket as the best around,in fact nowhere near.
Long Run would have to be way off his best and Kauto would have to be way over the hill for DH to beat them.
No way would i take 7's on hoping those will happen.
You can say what you like,but looking at the formbook i dont see any form over fences that puts him in the same bracket as the best around,in fact nowhere near.
Long Run would have to be way off his best and Kauto would have to be way over the hill for DH to beat them.
No way would i take 7's on hoping those will happen.
You seem to have ruled out any possibility of improvement Budd. Not quite how racing works, is it ? If his form was in the book, you would be getting 7/1 !!
He may not be good enough to win at the weekend, but plenty of owners would love a horse like him. He's won 10 from 13 starts and over £300k in prize money.
He may not be good enough to win at the weekend, but plenty of owners would love a horse like him. He's won 10 from 13 starts and over £300k in prize money.
Plenty of money in the lay columnn for you to mop up if he's a no-hoper
If 7/1 is way too short what price should he be then?
He's slightly shorter than Time For Rupert, about the same price as Kauto Star and Weird Al and way bigger than Long Run - has the market got it wrong, and if so what is the value bet in your opinion?
If 7/1 is way too short what price should he be then?
He's slightly shorter than Time For Rupert, about the same price as Kauto Star and Weird Al and way bigger than Long Run - has the market got it wrong, and if so what is the value bet in your opinion?
Sint,
im all for improving horses mate,especially with novices going into senior level,i often back on the strength of that.But DH will be 9 soon,no way i see him improving enough or even at all to be honest.
I aint got anything against the horse,and yes hes won a few races,most of which in his nov hurdle days,i just dont think he is or ever will be as good as some seem to think he is or will be.
im all for improving horses mate,especially with novices going into senior level,i often back on the strength of that.But DH will be 9 soon,no way i see him improving enough or even at all to be honest.
I aint got anything against the horse,and yes hes won a few races,most of which in his nov hurdle days,i just dont think he is or ever will be as good as some seem to think he is or will be.
As for his price,well maybe thats fine for some,but obviously not for me for reasons i have stated.
I wont be laying,ive never laid a horse in my life and never will.I am an old fashioned backer of horses plus if i am wrong about a horse i wont lose a shed load of money!! And believe me(i know you will!)ive been wrong about a horse a few times in the past!!
Maybe i'm wrong about DH,and if i am proved wrong,i'll be on here praising the horse.We all want as many gooduns as we can get after all.
I wont be laying,ive never laid a horse in my life and never will.I am an old fashioned backer of horses plus if i am wrong about a horse i wont lose a shed load of money!! And believe me(i know you will!)ive been wrong about a horse a few times in the past!!
Maybe i'm wrong about DH,and if i am proved wrong,i'll be on here praising the horse.We all want as many gooduns as we can get after all.
Fair play to you Bud.
I haven't backed DH myself (yet anyway) - I just put him up as an alternative to the favourite.
You still haven't said, what, if anything, is the best bet in the race at the current prices - or is it in your opinion a case of 'Long Run should hack up', but at the price I'll just watch.
I'll watch how the betting goes and if any of the outsiders (DH, TFR, WA) drift to silly prices (say 14/1) then I might have a little dabble purely on 'value' grounds
I haven't backed DH myself (yet anyway) - I just put him up as an alternative to the favourite.You still haven't said, what, if anything, is the best bet in the race at the current prices - or is it in your opinion a case of 'Long Run should hack up', but at the price I'll just watch.
I'll watch how the betting goes and if any of the outsiders (DH, TFR, WA) drift to silly prices (say 14/1) then I might have a little dabble purely on 'value' grounds
Its tricky Uncle cos it really all hinges on Long Runs fitness first time out.I would be inclined to leave the race alone,but if i do have a bet i would take a chance on Kauto at the odds.
I can't see how you can say there's no way you can see Diamond Harry improving at all. He's run 4 times over fences, achieved a rating of 168 in doing so and won a Hennessy practically on the bridle. Admittedly his first 2 wins over fences were nothing to write home about but he'd put Denman away 2 out without being given his head at Newbury and Denman went on to run second in The Gold Cup. He was getting 2 stone in that race but there's no way there's much between him and Denman and he's got very low mileage and a superb win record.
If you fancy him you have to forgive his RSA Chase run but I think you can on the grounds that he didn't start chasing until the end of January and the trainer tried to rush him to get experience into him and, as in his novice hurdle season, he may not have been fresh enough by March.
We all know his record fresh and on flat left handed tracks and, if anything, I think good ground will help as he's got blinding speed for a stayer and that could be vital in a small field and possibly tactical race.
If you fancy him you have to forgive his RSA Chase run but I think you can on the grounds that he didn't start chasing until the end of January and the trainer tried to rush him to get experience into him and, as in his novice hurdle season, he may not have been fresh enough by March.
We all know his record fresh and on flat left handed tracks and, if anything, I think good ground will help as he's got blinding speed for a stayer and that could be vital in a small field and possibly tactical race.
The Diamond Harry angle seems to be the biggest axis of disagreement in this race. I firmly side with uncle and booster - think he could well improve (and to be honest, Long Run aside), I think he is the only one in the race with the potential to actually do that to any great degree.
Totally agree tat the RSA was a race to put a line through. He was never travelling, pre-race vibes were bad, and he never jumped a fence if recollection serves me well. He was a deeply impressive winner of the Hennessy (he needed to be off such a low weight) and his ability to travel and quicken makes him a huge player in my opinion.
I think the form in the book, as someone said earlier, is there. To me, the Hennessy win was something that would have proved beyond anything else in the race (beyond Long Run and a younger Kauto Star), and his form behind Big Buck's was good enough to suggest he can make the leap over fences. Also think winning that valuable handicap hurdle giving weight (significant lumps of it too) to Burton Port and a stack of Cheltenham Festival winners was evidence that he could potentially be top class. He may be 9 but he's very lightly raced really, so improvement is certainly possible, and I think the ground might help if anything.
For me he is the only bet at 7-1.
Totally agree tat the RSA was a race to put a line through. He was never travelling, pre-race vibes were bad, and he never jumped a fence if recollection serves me well. He was a deeply impressive winner of the Hennessy (he needed to be off such a low weight) and his ability to travel and quicken makes him a huge player in my opinion.
I think the form in the book, as someone said earlier, is there. To me, the Hennessy win was something that would have proved beyond anything else in the race (beyond Long Run and a younger Kauto Star), and his form behind Big Buck's was good enough to suggest he can make the leap over fences. Also think winning that valuable handicap hurdle giving weight (significant lumps of it too) to Burton Port and a stack of Cheltenham Festival winners was evidence that he could potentially be top class. He may be 9 but he's very lightly raced really, so improvement is certainly possible, and I think the ground might help if anything.
For me he is the only bet at 7-1.
Totally take on board that he is a bit fragile and connections are hot and cold by the day with him, but for a horse that seems to have a reputation for being a hype machine, his wins to runs record (in good races too) is pretty excellent.
Booster and tomdeane, I don't think the previous posters have said that DH can't have improved but just stated there is no evidence of improvement. He is 8 turning 9 has not had any extra runs for over 12 months to gain any further experience. He has been plagued by off-course injuries and niggles, and the only time he has run on good ground (likely on saturday) he was pulled up. Under these circumstances it is hard to confidently say he is a better horse than he was in the Hennesey.
If you believe there is no evidence for improvement you can only go off his form in the book.
I honestly dont know how it will pan out but will certainly fascinating. Personally I am hoping Weird Al is the improver. I have always liked the horse, stable/jockey switch has proved positive and recent form has shown significant improvement (albeit in the untrustworthy Charlie Hall).
If you believe there is no evidence for improvement you can only go off his form in the book.
I honestly dont know how it will pan out but will certainly fascinating. Personally I am hoping Weird Al is the improver. I have always liked the horse, stable/jockey switch has proved positive and recent form has shown significant improvement (albeit in the untrustworthy Charlie Hall).
^ Fair point, and Weird Al is interesting for sure.
I suppose what I was meaning is that for me, bar his flop in the RSA (when he clearly didn't give his running), Diamond Harry has already run some great races and two of those wins (Hennessy and the Haydock handicap hurdle) were, at the time, in the best company he had faced. So I am interested to see if/how he improves now he faces his greatest test of all in Long Run and co. I think he could well improve again but take the point that this is guesswork having not seen him for a year.
I suppose what I was meaning is that for me, bar his flop in the RSA (when he clearly didn't give his running), Diamond Harry has already run some great races and two of those wins (Hennessy and the Haydock handicap hurdle) were, at the time, in the best company he had faced. So I am interested to see if/how he improves now he faces his greatest test of all in Long Run and co. I think he could well improve again but take the point that this is guesswork having not seen him for a year.
Pretty much agree with most of that Swardean re DH.Certainly for a horse to improve at his age i would consider to be pretty unlikely.Soon to be 9.
I think over fences we have seen his capabalities and they are not top class.Added to that his problems i think 7/1 is an awful bet,plus it aint soft ground likely,where most of his good form over Hurdles was.
Tom,
The form is clearly not in the book,he has to carry a stone and a half more on Saturday than in the Hennessey!! The ability to travel and quicken with 10 stone against handicappers,Denman aside, would be somewhat easier.
Look i may be proved wrong,fine,thats the game we are in,but he does not have form that puts him in with a 7/1 chance against the best around at level weights
Added to that his problems i think 7/1 is an awful bet,but as i have said,i've been wrong before,and may be again.
I think over fences we have seen his capabalities and they are not top class.Added to that his problems i think 7/1 is an awful bet,plus it aint soft ground likely,where most of his good form over Hurdles was.
Tom,
The form is clearly not in the book,he has to carry a stone and a half more on Saturday than in the Hennessey!! The ability to travel and quicken with 10 stone against handicappers,Denman aside, would be somewhat easier.
Look i may be proved wrong,fine,thats the game we are in,but he does not have form that puts him in with a 7/1 chance against the best around at level weights
Added to that his problems i think 7/1 is an awful bet,but as i have said,i've been wrong before,and may be again.
All a game of opinions, but have to say one more thing on this.
He did win with a lot less weight on his back in the Hennessy, but he has been raised by the handicapper for that effort to a mark of 166, which seems perfectly fair to me. Denman was 15 lengths behind in third, and would have been further back if Diamond Harry had kicked for home sooner.
It all comes down to whether or not you think Long Run will return at the top of his game (or close to it). I suspect he will be close, but probably 6-7lb below his best. Like many, I doubt he earned a rating of 182 in the Gold Cup (I'd have him on 178-179), which in my head means anything that runs to 173 on Saturday could beat him. Do I think Diamond Harry could be 7lb better than his current mark? Yes. He probably won't be, but I think he has a better than 1 in 8 chance.
For me, the improvement issue comes down to one thing. He always looked like he was a very good horse in the making but only put it together in the Hennessy. That was, however, his last run, and as he goes well fresh I am hopeful that we will see him come forward from that at the weekend, and that it might be good enough. Time will tell!
He did win with a lot less weight on his back in the Hennessy, but he has been raised by the handicapper for that effort to a mark of 166, which seems perfectly fair to me. Denman was 15 lengths behind in third, and would have been further back if Diamond Harry had kicked for home sooner.
It all comes down to whether or not you think Long Run will return at the top of his game (or close to it). I suspect he will be close, but probably 6-7lb below his best. Like many, I doubt he earned a rating of 182 in the Gold Cup (I'd have him on 178-179), which in my head means anything that runs to 173 on Saturday could beat him. Do I think Diamond Harry could be 7lb better than his current mark? Yes. He probably won't be, but I think he has a better than 1 in 8 chance.
For me, the improvement issue comes down to one thing. He always looked like he was a very good horse in the making but only put it together in the Hennessy. That was, however, his last run, and as he goes well fresh I am hopeful that we will see him come forward from that at the weekend, and that it might be good enough. Time will tell!
I think 7/1 is about right, because although we have picked holes in DH the remaining opposition all have question marks?
- Long Run - FTO is perhaps time to take it on, henderson form?
- Weird Al - Behind DH in Hennesey and poor in gold cup
- Time for Rupert - Beaten in Charlie Hall, disappointed in RSA
- Kauto Star - Despite record in race In not sure KAuto has ever been at his best at Haydock, too old?
So with these issues you cant go too long on DH IMO
- Long Run - FTO is perhaps time to take it on, henderson form?
- Weird Al - Behind DH in Hennesey and poor in gold cup
- Time for Rupert - Beaten in Charlie Hall, disappointed in RSA
- Kauto Star - Despite record in race In not sure KAuto has ever been at his best at Haydock, too old?
So with these issues you cant go too long on DH IMO
I'd actually love to see him miss Saturday altogether and bid for a second successive Hennessy as I don't believe his mark is insurpassable and the race doesn't look full of well handicapped horses. He could pop away in 4th or 5th and be unleashed after 2 out.
He'd be up to conceding the weight on last year's ratings.
He'd be up to conceding the weight on last year's ratings.
Interesting booster, race was always considered a certainty for 2nd season chasers off a low 10stone something mark, but Trabolgan and Denman has recently shown it can be won my top weights.
Good enough or not I think connections have to 'try' to take on top class oppostion as some point.
Good enough or not I think connections have to 'try' to take on top class oppostion as some point.
That's true, as was The Paddy Power but Great Endeavour and co may have shown that last year's novices weren't so bright. I think either of the races at Haydock or Newbury will deliver optimum conditions for him, I guess the one thng nobody knows is whether he's good enough after being injured.
I'd love to know what price you think DH should be Budd in the context of this race ..
I got my fingers burnt on the 4-1 Ante Post for Wetherby but 6-1 is way too big now the declarations are known.
2008 kauto falls at the last struggling to get the better of snoopy loopy and tamarinbleu when he was 8 never been convincing since his 1st win which wasnt the strongest betfair if he finishes in front of D H i will be amazed forget about d h never being a grade 1 winner and not having as higher rating this race has everything in his favour he has no chance of winning a gold cup in march but this is his time and thats why he will win on saturday granted a clear round
Ok let me put it this way if i can.
He has not got his ground.Predicted Good.
He has no form at this level of chasing.
He has had 4 chase runs,pulled up on his only run on good ground,and won 3 handicaps on softer than he will get on Saturday.
He has not been seen for a year,and has had a recent setback,to go with his history of problems.
Given all that i would have him normally in a race against the top horse well in double figures. However i will concede that doubts exist with Long Run and KS which are the proven Grade 1 performers.
So,in answer to your question Sint,about 10's.
I would have Weird Al in front of him who we know is in form and also TFR in front of him as he has had a run out and ran ok for his 1st run.
He has not got his ground.Predicted Good.
He has no form at this level of chasing.
He has had 4 chase runs,pulled up on his only run on good ground,and won 3 handicaps on softer than he will get on Saturday.
He has not been seen for a year,and has had a recent setback,to go with his history of problems.
Given all that i would have him normally in a race against the top horse well in double figures. However i will concede that doubts exist with Long Run and KS which are the proven Grade 1 performers.
So,in answer to your question Sint,about 10's.
I would have Weird Al in front of him who we know is in form and also TFR in front of him as he has had a run out and ran ok for his 1st run.
So when i return from my weekend away,i shall be on here singing the praises of DH
and eating huge slices of humble pie.
and eating huge slices of humble pie.
on all known form, i think diamond harry is a cut above wierd al
well on Hennessey form of course,but WA has just put in a good performance against pretty good horses,so we know hes fit, and as can happen with a new stable looks a better horse for the change.
even look at his form with knockara beau. prob spelled wrong! i think most horses improve for a change of stable on their first run for that stable, and often not as much after the first run
Would be wary of any ground description there, they gave it as good to soft last year when IC beat Tidal Bay, id be surprised if he hadnt watered quite a bit, depends on what rain we get on thursday night and friday as some is forecast
If it came up g/s it would be a DH/WA rfc for this camp
If it came up g/s it would be a DH/WA rfc for this camp
I like Diamond Harry as an alternative to Long Run, and I've found the debate here interesting reading, but the issue I'm having is what people are meaning by "improvement". From my understanding of the word I wouldn't consider him to have improved as such on his Hennessy win, clearly having had no more race experience to learn from, but I don't feel that I've ever seen Diamond Harry's been forced to show as much in races as I believe he is capable of. So when we speak of improvement, are we saying that a horse is actually a better racehorse than he was last time he ran, or simply that he's capable of posting a better rating?
Also, since this debate revolves so much around Long Run, and if you believe there are no concerns first time out you might make him as short as 4/7, so Diamond Harry would naturally have to be longer than he is. Is there as much disagreement in the betting w/o Long Run, where Diamond Harry is 9/4F. (Not that that's a bet I would fancy myself.)
P.S. After writing this I've just refreshed the page and read Budd's pretty convincing case against him, so I'm reconsidering what I think but am posting anyway. I so rarely post on here, I'm sorry if my few contributions are utter balls.
Also, since this debate revolves so much around Long Run, and if you believe there are no concerns first time out you might make him as short as 4/7, so Diamond Harry would naturally have to be longer than he is. Is there as much disagreement in the betting w/o Long Run, where Diamond Harry is 9/4F. (Not that that's a bet I would fancy myself.)
P.S. After writing this I've just refreshed the page and read Budd's pretty convincing case against him, so I'm reconsidering what I think but am posting anyway. I so rarely post on here, I'm sorry if my few contributions are utter balls.
Concerning DH does anyone know of a decent chaser who's had a similer ligament injury and how it faired
on its comeback. Also what is the record of Nick williams on getting horses back after they've been injured(martin pipe used to be vg at it). Nick williams comes across as an honest guy and his assessment of the
signifiance of the injury and how confident he is that the horse is as good now as he was before his hennessy
win, would be interesting(maybe they'll interview him pre-race). I cann't see many other ways to try and
quantify how a horse will recover and what price it should be.
Maybe if he's in a1 condition he has a 7/2 chance and if the probabilty of him being in a1 condition is
evens then from my calculations that would prob make his true price 7/1.
on its comeback. Also what is the record of Nick williams on getting horses back after they've been injured(martin pipe used to be vg at it). Nick williams comes across as an honest guy and his assessment of the
signifiance of the injury and how confident he is that the horse is as good now as he was before his hennessy
win, would be interesting(maybe they'll interview him pre-race). I cann't see many other ways to try and
quantify how a horse will recover and what price it should be.
Maybe if he's in a1 condition he has a 7/2 chance and if the probabilty of him being in a1 condition is
evens then from my calculations that would prob make his true price 7/1.
If DH had not had the injury then given his record 1st time out I would say the chance of him being in A1
condition is around the 1/4 mark so making his current price value. The difference in prices of 1/4 and evens
reflect the lack of confidence I have that he will have fully recovered.
condition is around the 1/4 mark so making his current price value. The difference in prices of 1/4 and evens
reflect the lack of confidence I have that he will have fully recovered.
Would not worry too much Waterwheel,most on here disagree with me it seems,so they probably think my contributions are utter balls!!
FWIW,i think you make some valid points in your post above.
FWIW,i think you make some valid points in your post above.
but I don't feel that I've ever seen Diamond Harry's been forced to show as much in races as I believe he is capable of. So when we speak of improvement, are we saying that a horse is actually a better racehorse than he was last time he ran, or simply that he's capable of posting a better rating?
In particular Waterwheel that has got me thinking to be honest
In particular Waterwheel that has got me thinking to be honest
That's an excellent point. I'd say you could ask has DH been tested to the utmost of his ability yet? He clearly wasn't right in the RSA and I think he was always beating Burton Point in the Hennessy so have we really seen the best of him yet? It's a question I think can be legitimately asked of a horse who runs so infrequently. As a backer I believe that DHs best is yet to come and am hoping we see that on Saturday. We will have to if he is to beat Long Run.
Aint changed my mind at all,i mean even if he does find a lot more for asking,he still aint got his ground,which is key looking at his form,but it is food for thought nonetheless.
Lots of good points on here whether you're with or against DH. Personally I think 6/1 now he's declared is very fair. Remember Long Run beaten first time up last year off 158. Kauto as much as I admire him is def past his best. Weird Al, I cannot see reversing Hennessy form, and the track is probably not stiff enough for TFR. Just my opinion and Saturday will reveal all.
Cheers, Budd. I think my problem is that I was really fairly confident of his chances in the Charlie Hall, so I've come into this race talking myself down from backing him again, when there is stiffer competition and more doubts surrounding him. I think I'm going to hold back for now, check the vibes from the stable and the going and make a decision closer the time, I expect 11/2 will still be available even then (though saying that Pricewise likes the horse first time out, having put him up for the Hennessy last year so the price may not hold).
i think you're wise to wait myself mate,certainly as regards the ground.
I really think hes a lot better on softer ground,so if it were to rain in the next couple of days it would help his cause.
I've pretty much said all i need to say on the horse,but i genuinely hope he runs well for you if you do have a bet on him. I have no problem if the horse proves me wrong,and it would only be good for the sport to have another top chaser around.
I really think hes a lot better on softer ground,so if it were to rain in the next couple of days it would help his cause.
I've pretty much said all i need to say on the horse,but i genuinely hope he runs well for you if you do have a bet on him. I have no problem if the horse proves me wrong,and it would only be good for the sport to have another top chaser around.
DH still has a lot to prove for me. Looks like going will be wrong , also jockey still has it to prove.
Kauto must be the value call. Even though he is 11 , not too many miles on the clock.
Kauto must be the value call. Even though he is 11 , not too many miles on the clock.
All this talk about the going being wrong is tosh. There is bound to be some juice in the ground. Tellwright will have mad sure and there have been some decent morning dews this week in Lancashire also. It will be a test as usual.
See you on Saturday in the Newton Stand.
I will be nutter shouting Ruby, Ruby,Ruby.
River Cool where I belong in my Mersey Paradise.
Also City to thrash the Geordies for a perfect day.
I will be nutter shouting Ruby, Ruby,Ruby.
River Cool where I belong in my Mersey Paradise.
Also City to thrash the Geordies for a perfect day.
Long Run wins easily followed by TFR then a Kauto in third. my prediction
Good luck Kauto, hope you run a blinder and give Long Run a scare.
Race revolves around Long Runs fitness fto, if he's close to full fitness he'll win this. Diamond Harry the possible danger, plenty of talent but been off the track for a year.
Race revolves around Long Runs fitness fto, if he's close to full fitness he'll win this. Diamond Harry the possible danger, plenty of talent but been off the track for a year.
I'm going tomorrow and am looking forward to seeing this. Despite reservations about the track I have decided to have a punt on Time for Rupert @ 9/1. Willing to think it improves on the Charlie Hall, can't imagine it will have been at full tilt first time out after it's previous injury and it's RSA fifth looks excellent considering the problems it supposedly had. Obviously relying on LR not being fully wound up but no reason why it doesn't beat the rest. Don't see any benefit in the each way terms so a win only stab at TFR for me.
So where does this leave us?
Kauto Star final swansong but will stuggle for rest of season?
TFR - not good enough?
Long Run - Still the best now cobwebs blown away?
Diamond Harry - Hype machine or blown up?
Weird Al - Just short of top class and best fresh?
Are we any clearer
Kauto Star final swansong but will stuggle for rest of season?
TFR - not good enough?
Long Run - Still the best now cobwebs blown away?
Diamond Harry - Hype machine or blown up?
Weird Al - Just short of top class and best fresh?
Are we any clearer
Id Keep Weird Al fresh for Cheltenham and pray for a bit of rain, ran on well enough
Was fantastic to see Kauto win, similar scenes to when Denman won his 2nd Henessey
If Long Run had jumped better on the 2nd circuit he'd surely have won. Waley Cohen is a top amateur and as good as many pro's but imo if Walsh and Waley-Cohen had swapped mounts just before the off I expect we'd be having a different discussion. But there is always that little **** in his armour so come Boxing Day I'll again be looking for the value against him.
Diamond Harry simply isn't good enough and TFR has become very dissapointing - they should have gone for the Hennessey.
If Long Run had jumped better on the 2nd circuit he'd surely have won. Waley Cohen is a top amateur and as good as many pro's but imo if Walsh and Waley-Cohen had swapped mounts just before the off I expect we'd be having a different discussion. But there is always that little **** in his armour so come Boxing Day I'll again be looking for the value against him.
Diamond Harry simply isn't good enough and TFR has become very dissapointing - they should have gone for the Hennessey.
Swardean - I think that's a fair assessment.
Except I'd expect Kauto to put in a decent showing in his remaining races, and I would quibble about whether running well in G1 chaees is "struggling".
Except I'd expect Kauto to put in a decent showing in his remaining races, and I would quibble about whether running well in G1 chaees is "struggling".
Thing now must be the question of can Kauto keep his form second time up as he was revved up for his compared to his last couple of seasonal reappearances. The jumping will always be a concern if you are taking short prices on Long Run
Personally, I'd sent Kauto straight to the Gold Cup for his swansong, but I can see him running in the King George. A little odd if both he and Masterminded show up though.
Just watched the replay after getting home from work. How uplifting was that? His jumping won the day from the very gutsy Long Run who was under pressure from a long way out. Horse and trainer brilliant. This was way above the triviality of betting. It doesn't matter what he does next.
I was there - did n't back Kauto but that will live on in my memory for a long time.
On a separate tack, still hope Henrietta steps Somersby up to 3 miles.
On a separate tack, still hope Henrietta steps Somersby up to 3 miles.
At the risk of agreeing with you twice in one day Strontium - I was just saying to my missus that they should hold him back for the Gold Cup and not go to Kempton. Kauto was clearly trained for today and it showed. I doubt whether he would uphold the form at Kempton (despite it clearly being a track and distance more to his liking than the GC).
What a performance from KS . Showed a great attitude and jumped them into the ground. Looked in very
good condition pre-race and he may well be in better condition this year than last.
Long Run looked very fit pre-race and didn't look keen to me, like many other gold cup winners he may have lost his enthusiasim for the game. Time will tell.
Diamond harry looked very fit pre-race but was edgy and found little for pressure and looks one to swerve imo.
Kauto Star is a true racing Great in every sense of the word.
good condition pre-race and he may well be in better condition this year than last.
Long Run looked very fit pre-race and didn't look keen to me, like many other gold cup winners he may have lost his enthusiasim for the game. Time will tell.
Diamond harry looked very fit pre-race but was edgy and found little for pressure and looks one to swerve imo.
Kauto Star is a true racing Great in every sense of the word.
Brilliant display of jumping that really put the pressure on Long Run who could'nt live with Kauto down the back.
Interesting change of tactics with Kauto leading and can see same being used at Kempton. If he jumps as well at Kempton we could see same result though I think that's the heart speaking. Head says Long Run should improve enough to win.
Totally agree with you tinkler. Kauto is a true racing great and so glad we'll get to see him again.
Interesting change of tactics with Kauto leading and can see same being used at Kempton. If he jumps as well at Kempton we could see same result though I think that's the heart speaking. Head says Long Run should improve enough to win.
Totally agree with you tinkler. Kauto is a true racing great and so glad we'll get to see him again.
Most of Hendersons have been fit enough first time out this seasons, think lot of people getting carried away with Long Run being in badly need of this run. No nose band on kauto today i noticed...
brook, people thought long run would need it because he ran well well below his ability on his seasonal reappearance lto. i think he will show himself in better light nto
Also Kauto's noseband been off since the GC. Long Run will come on for that I am in no doubt. As a Kauto fan I think Long Run turns that form around at Kempton and definitely at Cheltenham. However I would happily be proved wrong
What a horse. He's just magical. Yet another grade 1, how good is he?
Magical is the word.
Some of the records C4 flagged up are extraordinary - won a G1 in 7 different years, the top rated horse at 2m, 2 1/2m and 3m in 2007... and so it goes on.
He could be the second best ever? 15 Grade 1s from 2m to 3m 2f, left and right handed, on flat tracks and undulating ones. Certainly the best since Dessie. A privilege to have seen him.
Some of the records C4 flagged up are extraordinary - won a G1 in 7 different years, the top rated horse at 2m, 2 1/2m and 3m in 2007... and so it goes on.
He could be the second best ever? 15 Grade 1s from 2m to 3m 2f, left and right handed, on flat tracks and undulating ones. Certainly the best since Dessie. A privilege to have seen him.
Hats off to Ditcheat. Many thought(myself included) they were being foolhardy keeping this great horse in training for another season. They proved me wrong and boy, am I delighted they did! A potential clash against Masterminded at Kempton would be a race for the ages.
Long Run should be there too and I've no doubt he'll come on leaps and bounds for today's run but until his jumping improves he will always be opposable at short odds. A lot of judges were quick to question the strength of Long Runs achievements last season, one of the principal reasons cited was that he beat two regressive horses, both well past their best in the Gold Cup. Would be interesting to hear how they square that particular circle now!
Weird Al and Diamond Harry will probably not run again this side of January. Both are top class horses in my opinion but having said that I'd be surprised if either ever won a Gold Cup. Diamond Harry is tailor made for a race like the Irish Hennessy imo and with Pandorama out for the season and last years novices looking less and less frightening by the week, he would be of serious interest if he did show up at Leopordstown. Poor old Time for Rupert does not look likely to make it in the big leagues Im afraid but should improve for a return to his beloved Cheltenham.
Today was all about one horse though and what a supreme racehorse Kauto Star is. We are talking Arkle territory here.
Long Run should be there too and I've no doubt he'll come on leaps and bounds for today's run but until his jumping improves he will always be opposable at short odds. A lot of judges were quick to question the strength of Long Runs achievements last season, one of the principal reasons cited was that he beat two regressive horses, both well past their best in the Gold Cup. Would be interesting to hear how they square that particular circle now!
Weird Al and Diamond Harry will probably not run again this side of January. Both are top class horses in my opinion but having said that I'd be surprised if either ever won a Gold Cup. Diamond Harry is tailor made for a race like the Irish Hennessy imo and with Pandorama out for the season and last years novices looking less and less frightening by the week, he would be of serious interest if he did show up at Leopordstown. Poor old Time for Rupert does not look likely to make it in the big leagues Im afraid but should improve for a return to his beloved Cheltenham.
Today was all about one horse though and what a supreme racehorse Kauto Star is. We are talking Arkle territory here.
i was one of those who thought kauto couldnt win yesterday i was big on d h but stood on the balcony of the park suite at haydock yesterday it was a pleasure to applaud a great horse all the way from the last to the line well done to all connected with the horse
Long Run's performance was reminiscent of his debut last season in the Paddy Power in terms of the way he travelled and jumped, imo. I fully expect him to be cherry ripe for the King George and improve a fair bit for the run, but i'd be in no rush to take the current odds of 6/4.
Ahead of the season D McCain flagged Weird Al as a possible Grand National entry - this may be a more achievable target than the GC?
Except he's now about a stone too high in the weights. his last two races have "ruined" his handicap mark from a GN point of view.
Phil Smith's approach to handicapping at the top of the range probably means that a stone is on the high side. McCain's quote today was "We'll give him a nice break and in the spring decide whether we go back to Cheltenham or straight to Aintree."
He may have the Bowl in mind - with the exception of Denman, it didn't attract much talent this year for an 85k prize.
He may have the Bowl in mind - with the exception of Denman, it didn't attract much talent this year for an 85k prize.
In 15 years of going to Haydock regularly I've never felt an atmosphere close to that. The ever-increasing roar from 3 out all the way to the line was incredible. As UnclePuncle says above, it was equal to that at Newbury for Denmans second Hennessy. My mate who rarely comes racing with me and doesn't really follow the sport actually said as we were walking away from the winners enclosure "I've just witnessed something very special there haven't I". Yep, he had.
Rydal, given Weird Al's apparent benefit of running fresh and a possible acceptance that he is not quite good enough to win a GC, then straight to the Aintree bowl seems a great option with other horses probably taking it in as an afterthought
Well,just back from my weekend away,and just watched the race.
Absolutely brilliant to see Kauto back winning,what a horse he is.
Think Long Run ran ok,but his jumping was not as good as it could be,and he will need to get that sorted if hes to defend his crowns,but it was his 1st run,so will be interesting to see him next time out.
Weird Al i think thats as good as he is,and TFR looks to be struggling,and maybe suffering with something,cos i am pretty sure hes better than that.
Now Diamond Harry,well i have to say i thought he travelled really well for a large part of the race,as he normally does to be fair,but could not quicken when he needed to.(theres a big difference between quickening with 10 stone on yer back compared to the weight he had on Saturday)
Was that down to the fact that hes just not good enough at this level,or did he need the race??
I know hes normally reliable first time out,but its still possible he needed it.
Whatever,he still has not showed me that hes top class at 3m chasing,and hes another that will be interesting on his next run.
Absolutely brilliant to see Kauto back winning,what a horse he is.
Think Long Run ran ok,but his jumping was not as good as it could be,and he will need to get that sorted if hes to defend his crowns,but it was his 1st run,so will be interesting to see him next time out.
Weird Al i think thats as good as he is,and TFR looks to be struggling,and maybe suffering with something,cos i am pretty sure hes better than that.
Now Diamond Harry,well i have to say i thought he travelled really well for a large part of the race,as he normally does to be fair,but could not quicken when he needed to.(theres a big difference between quickening with 10 stone on yer back compared to the weight he had on Saturday)
Was that down to the fact that hes just not good enough at this level,or did he need the race??
I know hes normally reliable first time out,but its still possible he needed it.
Whatever,he still has not showed me that hes top class at 3m chasing,and hes another that will be interesting on his next run.
Have to agree after that performance which was very disappointing from Diamond Harry. I thought Reveley was niggling at him from before the winning post on the first circuit but then he seemed to be travelling well down the back straight. Reminded me a bit of his Newbury run behind Big Buck's and just possible that he's not as good as I thought or he's not come back from injury as good as he was.
He did quicken under a big weight in the Fixed Brush Hurdle at Haydock a couple of years ago but I guess that was against handicappers. I'm sure he's better than Saturday's run but need to see him do it again.
He did quicken under a big weight in the Fixed Brush Hurdle at Haydock a couple of years ago but I guess that was against handicappers. I'm sure he's better than Saturday's run but need to see him do it again.
Increbible performance from Nicholls and Kauto. I have to say I'd totally written him off. I think I read DH's next outing will be the King George now, so I'll watch that with interest.
For what its worth I reckon Diamond Harry ran about 3 lbs below his best ever race.
Kauto Star (180) , surprisingly was as good in winning as he was when he beat Exotic Dancer all those years ago.
Long Run was not at his very best (about 7 lbs below his Gold Cup rating according to RPR, (but I personally think that rating may be a bit high), but he ran his third best ever rating according to the Racing Post and he is capable of improvement, especially since Kauto was known to have been trained with this one race in mind.
i expect they'll go for the King George with Kauto, but if he was mine, I would turn him out until the new Year and then get him as good, fresh and fit as possible for the Gold Cup. He certainly remains top class, Kauto although perhaps not quite as good as he was. If he jumps well next time, and Long Run is not foot perfect, he might even beat him again!
Weird Al is the interesting one for me. Only 2 lengths behind Long Run, he is lightly raced and has scope to improve again.
Kauto Star (180) , surprisingly was as good in winning as he was when he beat Exotic Dancer all those years ago.
Long Run was not at his very best (about 7 lbs below his Gold Cup rating according to RPR, (but I personally think that rating may be a bit high), but he ran his third best ever rating according to the Racing Post and he is capable of improvement, especially since Kauto was known to have been trained with this one race in mind.
i expect they'll go for the King George with Kauto, but if he was mine, I would turn him out until the new Year and then get him as good, fresh and fit as possible for the Gold Cup. He certainly remains top class, Kauto although perhaps not quite as good as he was. If he jumps well next time, and Long Run is not foot perfect, he might even beat him again!
Weird Al is the interesting one for me. Only 2 lengths behind Long Run, he is lightly raced and has scope to improve again.
cry - is that 180 for Kauto the RPR? I posted about the ratings in the Cheltenham/Kauto thread. I see the BHA rated him at 174 which seems a little on the low side (and they rated LR 166).
Yes its the RPR.
I am not a slave to such ratings, but look at the race at the start. You had the first 2 from the Charlie Hall, fit as fleas and bouncing for the fight; you had last year's King George and Gold cup winner, the brilliant winner of the Hennessy (Diamond Harry) known to go best when fresh, and Kauto Star.
Now everyone, including me had Kauto Star as on the slide, and his best ever rating according to RPr's was 191 in a King george with just a couple in his lifetime over 180 before. I reckon 180 was about right, maybe even slightly understating the level of the performance. I personally don't see why the rating is wrong. It has to be based on Weird Al improving and Long Run running below par, but that seems reasonable. Its not as if Weird Al's form with Time For Rupert was that far off what you might have expected on Wetherby form is it?
I am not a slave to such ratings, but look at the race at the start. You had the first 2 from the Charlie Hall, fit as fleas and bouncing for the fight; you had last year's King George and Gold cup winner, the brilliant winner of the Hennessy (Diamond Harry) known to go best when fresh, and Kauto Star.
Now everyone, including me had Kauto Star as on the slide, and his best ever rating according to RPr's was 191 in a King george with just a couple in his lifetime over 180 before. I reckon 180 was about right, maybe even slightly understating the level of the performance. I personally don't see why the rating is wrong. It has to be based on Weird Al improving and Long Run running below par, but that seems reasonable. Its not as if Weird Al's form with Time For Rupert was that far off what you might have expected on Wetherby form is it?
Todays's quote from Donald McCain on Weird Al's plans;
"I've got three or four for the National this year - Ballabriggs, Fabalu, Wymott and maybe Weird Al will be one."
My guess is that he will enter him and then see how he's handicapped and who the opposition is in the the Bowl.
"I've got three or four for the National this year - Ballabriggs, Fabalu, Wymott and maybe Weird Al will be one."
My guess is that he will enter him and then see how he's handicapped and who the opposition is in the the Bowl.
Todays's quote from Donald McCain on Weird Al's plans;
"I've got three or four for the National this year - Ballabriggs, Fabalu, Wymott and maybe Weird Al will be one."
My guess is that he will enter him and then see how he's handicapped and who the opposition is in the the Bowl.
"I've got three or four for the National this year - Ballabriggs, Fabalu, Wymott and maybe Weird Al will be one."
My guess is that he will enter him and then see how he's handicapped and who the opposition is in the the Bowl.
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