Sprint Cup - Haydock

I had just logged in to start a topic on this, I thought it strange that one of our biggest sprints of the year had no thread with just 10 days until the race.

Beaten to it so top stuff mate.

Quite like Whizz Kid myself for all the reasons you state. Doubts about those at the head of the market too. Dream Ahead has to put an abysmal run behind him and Deacon Blues is racing against the big boys for the first time.

My thoughts about the leading contenders

DREAM AHEAD - IF he can bounce back to his July Cup form he should be the horse to beat imo.

DEACON BLUES - Highly progressive sort and has been winning races very easily, too short for what he has beaten though.

BATED BREATH - Trainer was less than confident that he would handle the ground lto, if he gets G/F must be respected, only defeat on G/F was in July Cup, 2 time CD winner too.

SOCIETY ROCK - Ultra consistent sort, no idea why he is twice the price of DB tbh. Goes on most surfaces so may be a pretty decent ante post ew selection. Does he save his best for Ascot though?

DELEGATOR - I wouldn't back him with stolen money, FAR to inconsistent, though obviously top class on a going day.

ELZAAM - Not got to much to find against most of these and further progress may be possible given he is a lightly raced sort.

ZOFFANY - Not sure what to make of this fellow? Ran a cracker in SJ Palace, I thought he dodged it in France on his next run then a stinker in the PMdeG. Trainer form a concern too?

WOOTTON BASSETT - Disappointed this Season but a drop back to 6f could bring a return to form. Has always looked like a sprinter to me.

BEWITCHED - Started fav for Golden Jubilee but flopped. Of the track since then so a problem maybe??? Was highly progressive before then so if fit and well I would expect a big run.

WHIZZ KID - A progressive 3yo Filly. Won a very good Group2 race then ran a cracker lto in Nunthorpe, 2nd on the unfavoured side. Has all the allowances but is she really crying out for 6f? Currently 25/1, far to big imho

At the moment I think that this looks and extremely tricky race to call.

Fillies have a very decent record in this over the years so it would not surprise me to see Whizz Kid and Bewitched going well, of the colts Society Rock and Bated Breath would be the ones I would rely on for a good run.

No bet for me yet, need to whittle that list of 4 down.

Thoughts guys?

Had Dream Ahead down as the winner of this straight after the SJP, so was gutted to come back of my Hols and find out he won the July Cup

Given the normal bit of cut they get in this race he could be tough to beat.

Bewitched was backed off the boards for the Golden Jubilee (having made mince of Zoffany previously) but ran no sort of race (returned lame iirc) so has to be on anybody's shortlist

Wootton Bassett an interesting recruit back to sprinting, but he doesn't really look like he's progressed from his 2 y/o career so best watched for me

Looking forward to seeing Temple Meads back out.

Wootton Bassett

Actually ran a good race over 6.5 furlongs last time - just faded at the end. Could be interesting.

War Artist is interesting.Would have gone close in July Cup if he
had been drawn on stand side.His win at Dubai,giving over a stone away,to group horses,was amazing.Needs riding late for speed,and does not want it too soft

No rain this week forecast for Haydock, so I'm willing to take a punt on fast ground. This would be against the front 3 in market - Deacon Blues, Society Rock and Dream Ahead.
The AP value has to be Delegator and Bated Breath.

aaargh, Wizz Kid not declared..

Unless Kirkland overwaters, ground should be genuinely G/F on the faster inside sprint track.

I like Hitchens and Genki to run better than their odds but confidently expect BATED BREATH to run a massive race and at 8/1 will be a player. His record on G/F or faster ground (all over 6f) is 1-1-1-2 (July Cup). Also a C& D winner and stable knows how to win this race

No rain this week forecast for Haydock, so I'm willing to take a punt on fast ground. This would be against the front 3 in market - Deacon Blues, Society Rock and Dream Ahead.

Since when was fast ground a negative for Society Rock? The only reason he was 25/1 at Royal Ascot is because people thought he wouldn't like the soft ground. And now he's a soft ground specialist? Personally, I think Society and Deacon will be fine on anything.

Since when was fast ground a negative for Society Rock? The only reason he was 25/1 at Royal Ascot is because people thought he wouldn't like the soft ground. And now he's a soft ground specialist? Personally, I think Society and Deacon will be fine on anything.

You just need to look at Society Rock's form for one. Bated Breath beat him comfortably at Haydock this year on good and quicker ground will be even more in Bated Breath's favour. Deacon Blues definitely wants cut. Jockeys like Dettori who have ridden him have reported as much. Fanshawe's stated it. It's a no brainer. They are both better with dig and it doesn't look like they're going to get it unless weather forecast changes dramatically.

Im also taking at a punt that will be GF so Hoof It has to be a danger, but at the prices on a flat track, I want to be with Elzaam. I accept however that next season may his year.

I can't see Deacon Blues running here.  The horse needs juice.  Society Rock will be fine.  As mentioned above, Bated Breath is the one at 8's.

threat of a touch of rain today(about 1mm) and friday(1.2mm),lets hope the COC leaves the course unwatered and we have good decent flat racing ground

half the battle in these Ante-post races is working out what the ground will be and what will run.
Deacon Blues - best 6f horse in the Uk on Good or softer ,did a great time at the curragh last time.
Dream Ahead - basically an inconsistent horse. Won on cushioned fast ground ;he won't get the cushion here.
    My view is that the ground will be fast on Saturday and there is a decent chance that one or both of the
above will not run and be saved for the Diadem.
Hoof it- looked to have lost some condition prior to his York defeat. Has to be respected on ability grounds.
Society Rock- tough and consistent has an E/w chance
Bated BReath- looked in great condition at York and will likely have perfect conditions here.
Delegator and Elzaam both likely to get ideal conditions.
Bated breath looks the Ante post bet here at 8/1. His form is solid ,he's very consistent and will probably
get ideal conditions.

Up until yesterday the likelihood of rain according to the forecast was nil.

Today I look and the forecast is for some rain Friday and more/plenty on Saturday. You must bear in mind however that it has been raining for a while already today, yet the forecast for all day today is 'mostly cloudy with some sun' Basically they don't have a clue. We will have some rain though, this is September in Haydock.

I am going on the basis that with a mostly dry week with a bit of rain (don't think KT will need to get his can out) we're looking around goodish ground.

The record of the Arab owners in this race is interesting and I already had Bated Breath and Dream Ahead as the 2 I wanted to be on, with a watchful eye on how Delegator and Elzaam were punted.

will always be the vernons to me as well op

I live 17 miles from course and where we are the rain has come down in torrents on Monday for about 10 minutes and has rained intermittently every day for about 5 days before Monday and since then the same, but I do remember as a child watching it rain on a cornfield about twenty yards from my grandmothers house and the pavement was absolutely dry.
Be prepared for soft at least.

agent r posted on the nice hotels in the cotswolds, the swan bibury fabulous thanks, incase you hadnt seen the post

I am on Dream Ahead as I think he has the class. Ran four times at 6f never beaten and 3 of those were G1. A lot seem to fancy Bated Breath and claim the going will be in his favour yet dream Ahead beat him 1/2 L on GF? Bated Breath does have a 4lb pull but it looked as though Dream Ahead had trouble in running so not sure it'll be enough. As for the going I'm 35m from the track & we've had rain today (none forecast) & the dark clouds are still with us. Accept there's more experienced folk than me on here but I can only comment on what I see as being factual.

Hitchens has decent e/w shout on run behind Dream Ahead 4 pounds better off for 2 lengths, as long as ground stays better than good?

bazzar

are you serious when saying soft at least?

That's clinched it. Wait till the day, know what the ground is after all

Deadly serious, plenty of rain 17 miles from course, this is why southerners believe that it ALWAYS rains in Manchester.
My umbrella has been in much use recently.

I'll stick to saying good ground.  Currently good with a dry week forecast until the weekend. Says good to me.

Elisjohn good to hear, I hadn't seen so I'll look back through your posts.

Cheers

I'm in Warrington, 6 miles away, and we've had nothing since sunday morning.

Lets get this straight for the clueless people on here.  There has been very liitle rain and as of 13.15 today the ground reminas as gd with gd/fm places on the sprint course.  Rain is only due to hit Haydock later on in the afternoon on Saturday with no rain or little rain beforehand.

The ground is likley to be fast although there is always the possibility of the Saturday rain hitting earlier which we will know more on Thursday.

thanks lads,kept putting websites up and they were all saying hardly any rain about throughout the week till late on.
Cheers again

Rain now due Friday and dry Saturday. Good g/f ip if this is seen to be true.

http://uk.weather.com/weather/10day-Haydock-Park-UKXX2095

ps ground was a bit wet this morning so we must have had some light rain overnight

In my first post I did say how I had seen it raining 20 yards away,
but the pavement 10 feet away was dry, the poster from Warrington is much nearer than me and his word must be taken over mine, in Manchester we have had intermittent rain and a VERY heavy shower on Monday for about 10 minutes.
Rain almost every day since Monday and heavily overcast as I post.

I was at the Three Sisters on Sunday and it ****d down, less than a mile away the in laws had no rain.

Probably best not to comment on ground conditions unless you're relatively close. i.e. not Manchester

The course has seen 3 months rain in the last five days, we have had torrential rain with hardly any let up, Monday we had flash floods that saw a lot of the lanes in and around the course Forded.

The ground will be dead whatever the rest of this week brings

Deacon Blues almost certain NR

I have plumped for Bewitched in this, purely because I feel 16s is a big price.

Hughes is a very interesting booking and if you can forgive her Golden Jubilee run she should probably be single figure odds.

1 of only 3 horses that I could see being pricewised atm, the others being Elzaam and Masamah.

pricewise will tip WOOTTON BASSETT if he's got any sense

Regards the going, Haydock is the worst track on record for over watering. I expect if no rain is forecast, that they will artificially turn the ground into a bog, as they always seem to do.

If rain is forecast they will turn on the taps anyway.

It happened once, seriously and that was for the Sprint Cup, the same mistake won't be made twice.  There will be no watering as rain is set to arrive tomorrow anyway, with maybe a tad more on Saturday. It's been dry now for 24 hours and with a dry warmish day today the ground will be fast side of good.

Good ground, a bit wet on top but should be fresh and nice, is my forecast still for Saturday's big race.

Some absolute toss written on this thread with regards ground. No rain forecast for next 3 days, and ground will be on quick side if it proves correct. No reason for the clerk to water.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/3071?area=WA12

No reason for the clerk to water!!!!

This is Kirky you know, fwiw the straight course seems to have a far higher reading than the round by a whole point, both straights are being used(and they often differ) and you ant be sure that he's evn got the distances right 1st time!!!

As usual with that gaff, unless its been raining all week, i'll stick to thoughts after the 1st couple which is a shame because id fancy one in the 1st on quicker ground

No rain forecast? I beg to differ.

Oh I see you've been on the bbc, who can't tell you what it's doing outside right now.

A nightmare of a race to solve. The difficulty is in finding a horse that is likely to run to its mark, rather than the best horse in the race. Dream Ahead's July Cup win was vastly overrated imo and I wouldn't be interested in him at all. I'm extremely surprised that Masamah is as big as 33/1, ok he's coming here after a below par effort but the same is true for the majority of the field. Maybe it was the ground that did for him last time, officially he'd already won on good to soft at Chester last year but the times that day suggested it was closer to good to firm. Maybe he just wasn't on a going day, as can often happen with these sprinters. What I do know is if he returns to his King George Stakes form he will take a lot of beating, he put up a much improved performance that day and ran quicker than this lot ever have (with the exception of Sole Power but he seems very inconsistent). I can only think he's such a big price because of doubts about the extra furlong, but he got the 6f at Chester last year, where he ran as good as he ever had up to that point. It's possible that he's just gone off the boil but at the price it's worth giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree Masamah is an interesting runner. He was given a bizarre ride by Spencer at York who dragged him across
the track onto the slowest ground. Under the circumstances he ran well. Amour prop has boosted his York and
Goodwood wins. The Trip is a doubt, but he'll never get a better chance to stay it. The inner track at
Haydock is nowhere near as stiff as the old one, the ground is likely to ride fast and he's the only front
runner left in the race. On the negative side a higher draw would be better.
Markab(a horse quick enough to come second in the king stand) made all on fast ground last year and Masamah has to warrant an interest at 33/1 to do the same.

Agree with Masamah. Also fired a bullet at Hitchens who is also well overpriced.

Tinkler I don't understns the 'stiff track' comment over a straight 6.  The new and old course are side by side.

Anyway, dry night but two different forecasts for today from the BBC and the Weather channel, either way 'soft' will certainly not be in the going description.  Rain due on Saturday but we're likely to know this years Sprint Cup winner by then. GL with your bets.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/3071?&search=newton%20le%20willows&itemsPerPage=10®ion=world&area=Newton-le-Willows

http://uk.weather.com/weather/hourByHour-Haydock-Park-UKXX2095

Agent R
When Markab won this race last year he clocked a track record time for both tracks and the time was 2 1/2 lengths quicker than any time ever recorded on the outer track. Markab is no great sprinter which indicates
that the inner track is significantly quicker. I've only been to the track a couple of times since they
started using it  and the gradients appeared to be more sweeping than the outer track, where there are a few
more subtle undulations, possibly throwing a horses stride pattern.

Yes, I was there last year and backed Markab and the ground if I remember rightly was quick.  Just the rest of the years racing hadn't left me thinking the inner was any quicker than the outer.

'no need for them to water"

I never noticed them ever worrying asbout the "need to water" before at Haydock.

Looks a mare of a race, id rather it either became faster or sheeted down with rain. think its watch up until 10 mins before the off to deide the line i want to take

ok, cryoftruth, so they will be watering ahead of tomorrow's race, clearly.

I remember they over watered the outer track for this race a few years ago . They listed it as good to firm
,but all the jockeys said there was cut and it was loose. Sakhees secret was the favourite who loved fast
and he couldn't handle it , this led to his trainer having a fit about Haydocks over watering policy.

Too many horses underperformed last time out to confidently find the winner of this race, imo. The only two horses that didn't are Society Rock & Hitchens.

Elzaam is the interesting one at a big price given his liking for a flat track and quick ground.

Think i'll skip it and by a lotto ticket.

York ground was a joke though, sint, so excuses are fair enough. This race is very simple for me - Bated Breath vs Delegator assuming there isn't a deluge of rain pre-post time.

still no rain around here.
Delegator, back on a flat, fast, straight course...[:p]

Johnny/Twonky I was just going to say that on second thoughts Delegator might be worth a crack here.

Last season they intended on training him as a sprinter but due to injuries they had to abort that plan and race him over 7f. This season all has been well with this horse and they have trained him for sprints, winning the G2 at York and then finishing 5th behind Dream Ahead from the widest draw. Last time I was a little surprised they ran him the Lennox baxk over 7f, even though he gets the trip, and it may have been just to give him an extra race. SBS horses are going better now than they were early season too so at 11/1 with sly-bet (hoping the rain stays away) he is a bet for me. gl

Does he stand the training though Sint??, seems like his 1st two appearances of the season are usually his peak for the year

why is nobody interested in sole power if it's fast ground?

There is now rain f/c from early morning onwards for the Wigan and Liverpool areas, deffo leaving this until i see the race before

Haydock is further east though - all the forecasts I've seen predict a bit of light rain at most, and only a shower or two.

On this thread, I did hope that we might get someone who lived within a very short distance from the course, who could relay the actual weather as opposed to the "weather forecast", so far we have had someone as near as 6 miles.

There does appear to be some inconsistentcy about him Zilzal but if we ignore his defeat in the Irish Guineas 2 years ago when the going was Heavy, then his form figures up until end of Aug/early Sept that season would have been 1221, so he is capable of putting some consistency together. If there is an excuse for his poor run last time at Goodwood then the prices seem OK to me as I think his run in the Julp Cup was rather good given he didn't have the clearest of passages or best draw.

A cursory glance at the times today @ Haydock shows there is plenty of juice in the ground there.  2mrw will be good ground (barring monsoons).  For me Bewitched represents the value based on her win in the Ballycorus win when she laughed at Zoffany and co first time out.

Fill yer boots 

LTL - sprint races were run into a strong headwind,back straight always has plenty juice ZIL - b 1/2 mile away from track from 7.00 am - will update weather

Delegator is a best fresh animal Sint- 3 wins fto now, regresses after that.
With LTL on Bewitched, can't resist a saver on Wooton at 20/1, big price if they run him.

Well Done Sands of Time please get up around 7-00 and give a half hourly Bulletin

Rains come and its a DA/WB rfc for me

very very light drizzle just started in the last 5 minutes - will update throughout morning

Sticking with Hoof It....will run his race and better back at 6furlongs.

Ought to be no ground excuses for good to firm horses, judging by the time of the first sprint.

Well done DA backers, I thought he was too short and also thought he was beat in the photo, wrong on both counts.

should have stuck with my original decision and stayed out of the race. [>o] 11//1 for Relegator I thought worth a crack.

well done DA backers .. not many on here ? Zilzal ..

some horse to concede the ground he did by running all over the shop.

Nah i went for the bigger priced one had DA in a rfc

And Seelo finished 4th in a 15 runner hcap(1 withdrawn)

Ach well, mice and men, its been a fabulous year so far

Doubled him ante-post with POUR MOI, poor me.

Although I'm not certain that she would've troubled the first three, Bewitched backers (including me) must be seething at that ride. She was switched three times at the back, needlessly, and then asked to quicken through a gap that wasn't there. Looked full of running too, grrrrr

^ Abbaye winner [;)]

Made up with Dream Ahead

should give HoofIt a little rest then Hong Kong for the big sprint vs ROcket Man et al.

Think DA was in front way too long, 5f would be no problem for him. Bewitched never at the races - c'est la vie, take your point sands.

Agree with Liam. He hit the front too soon and needs to be ridden like at Newmarket I think. Hard to say he was not the best horse though.

most talented maybe, and I backed him, but Hoof It fans would argue the point a bit. I reckon Hoof It suffered more than 6 inches worth of interference when Dream Ahead dived to the left. Hoof It was an unlucky loser.

Hoof It did suffer more interference than the beaten distance, but DA must have condeded at least 1-2 lengths with his shimmying across the track.

* conceded

Bated Breath was the unlucky loser. Dream Ahead barrelled into him, and how he didn't win the race is beyond me - including the result of the photo.