Workforce 2/1 Eclipse

I have to agree that 2/1 seems a very decent price. I have backed it. I can't understand the prices here even taking into account the stable aren't perhaps firing on all cylinders. Though it could just be he hasn't got as many good ones this year. On the flip side Aob couldn't be having a much better season and if you believe So you think was undertrained then he certainly has the potential to challenge workforce. However at the prices and looking at it purely from a form in the book point of view Workforce is my idea of the winner

2/1 is a good price but i think the aussie handicapper will be held on to this time and beat workforsce but 2/1 is a v good price on form but feel hes a better 12f horse but no doubt he has the better form.

thought syt was delivered far too early and the pacemaker did more harm than good playing in to the hands of a cast iron stayer that goes well fresh!

i think syt will win.

gl

I'm going and I'm really hoping its going to be the best race since my last days racing - Tuesday of Royal Ascot and Goldikova vs Canford  Cliffs (race of the meeting in my book)

No doubt we'll leave Sandown Saturday asking questions like we did that day - 'what if Olivier hadn't put up overweight' and 'what if he hadn't changed his boots'...!

Sure Workforce and won a Derby and an Arc but how many Cox Plates has he won?? 

[;)]

Hopefully they ride the champ quietly and let him sprint, show you blokes what a real turn of foot looks like... [;)]

SYT at odds against and evens still in a few places is a stonking bet.

Tbh I couldn't back either horse at current odds, both are too short imo.

Snow Fairy has shown that she is a Filly with a good turn of foot on quick ground at around 10f. If she is fit and ready she could be a big danger.

Cape Blanco has shown his best form over 10f on quicker ground too. Though not a flashy individual I would really fancy his chances if Jan Vermeer swerved the race. He could set his own fractions up front as in last Seasons Irish Champion Stakes.

Same as you, apieceofcake, it's a race I'm just going to sit out and watch. On the face of it, I agree with those saying Workforce looks value at 2s, that was a good comeback performance at the weights. He'll need to come on from that, though, to match SYT's Ascot form. I know many are assuming he will just because it was his first run of the season but it doesn't always work out like that. I'm also not convinced that SYT having a hard race at Ascot was the ideal prep for this. O'Brien said he wasn't fully fit but it was a very good performance in defeat, so I'm sceptical about O'Brien's comments, unless he really is the flying machine he's been hyped up as. Ideally I'd like to take the front 2 on, but it's hard to muster up any kind of realistic hopes for the rest.

At the price he is i have to back Cape Blanco, this race could suit imo, im not entirely sure about Workforce over 10f and although STY could be the horse that everyone wants him to be he could be that "Expensive horse" that everyone follows.

Pretty much agree with you whole post Figgis, the only chance I will have a bet is if Jan Vermeer skips the race, 20s on Cape Blanco would be good value then imho.

I'm quite lucky in that I don't have to have a bet to enjoy a horse race, especially one as good as this.

Others maybe feel they have to have a bet, just sit back and enjoy I say

On soft ground Workforce would be an outstanding bet but it won't be soft. They've had some rain but now set to dry out for remainder of week. Cooper will ensure good ground. I just fear the O'Brien factor. He seems to have the ability to mop up all the middle distance Group Ones unless the horse in opposition is a Sea The Stars type.

Im looking forward to saturday, Camera ready for some good shots hopeully

I can see the appeal of Cape Blanco at his price, he'll need the front 2 to under peform slightly but that's always possible. His latest run puts me off backing him, but you're both right that his price is probably too big.

Im just hoping for a first and second in any order for TTF points.

An exacta could be the bet here, if you fancy one horse strongly over the other.

I can see where people are coming from with Cape Blanco, the price and he may get the race run to suit. To me though he's disappointed more than once since the Irish Champion Stakes. I also think the stiff finish over Sandowns 10f may even be in Workforce's favour. I think his turn of foot is underated as well. SYT is the danger as we really don't know if he showed his best in the last race. At the prices though I'm happy to be with Workforce

I would find it hard to fancy Cape Blanco for this or anything else at the moment. Saw him before the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot and in physical terms I thought he looked a shadow of the horse that turned up for the King George last year and ran a belter. He's been on the go since his run in the World Cup and for me could do with a break.

I like Snow Fairy. The trip and ground should be ideal for her. Just wonder how her form stacks up against the front two.  Would anyone be so kind as to post Timeform's ratings for the principle contenders please?

"Sir Michael Stoute put the finishing touches to Workforce's preparation for the Coral-Eclipse at Sandown on the Newmarket gallops on Wednesday morning.

The Freemason Lodge handler sent the 2010 Derby and Arc winner to the Long Hill shavings where he was asked to do some fast work over a shorter distance.

In company with the useful Class Is Class, who runs at Sandown on Friday, Workforce was given a target at which to aim.

Class Is Class went six lengths clear at one point, leaving Workforce two furlongs in which to reel in his companion, and ended up about a length and a half to the good."


Grammatically, that last paragraph means that Workforce failed to reel in Class is Class. Is that what it's supposed to mean, and if so, does it have any significance anyway

I think it means workforce eventually came out on top, beating C is C by 1.5 lengths

Great state of affairs, isn't it, when you have to make allowances for journalists' lack of grammatical awareness? Either way, I'm not sure the 40 grand punter will be shaking in his shoes.

Im sure the 40k punter knows better than to take a reported gallop literally.

lol @ 40k punter. Guffaw guffaw.

Graeme, you thought Workforce wasn't going to run!

Again, more baseless cynicism proven to be incorrect, so I really dont see why you doubt this 40k bet,tbh.

Whereas you could be very confident SYT will produce a strong performance you cannot say that about Workforce
who could easily throw in a moderate performance like he did at ascot and York last year ,when there was no
obvious reason for such an effort. On the plus side he has won at Sandown and if he's on a going day has
bags of ability. I've got doubts about SYT handling the track , but O'Brien seems to peak at this time of
year and his horses often produce that little bit extra in these big races even when its difficult to
argue his horses are value judging from their previous form. It's a no bet race for me, good luck to those
who are.

Yeah ok sure, right you are. '40 grand' to get a horse in to a price that would take a hell of a lot more than that on race day. Do you remember the massive connections based bet for Workforce to win the 2000 guineas ? the Racing Post were the puppet printers for that story as well.

the spokensman for Korral grame was on racing news. I guess he stood there and lied down the phone to the watching audience, and I guess all the odds compilers back in the office are also lying.

No evidence will hit you in the pocker, always does.

Tinkler, your saying there was no excuse for WF in the Dante then ?

Like i said, if there was a 40 grand(ante post) bet it's a very cheap and conveinant way to corrupt the market. You believe anything they tell you. And if you think a bookies rep wouldn't lie down the phone to a watching audience, i have a 17th century cupboard i inherited from my uncle Ikea that i'd like to sell you.

Not at all Graeme. I just dont make assumptions and like to have somekind of evidence to support my arguements.

You on the otherhand take a cynical approach to everything. It is a default position for you and exactly why you dont have the right mindset for betting. Everything is a conspiracy even though your cynicism has been proven incorrect. Do you learn at all ?

Before the Derby I recall very similar cynical comments. You were adamant Carlton House would not be running purely because the bookies decided to offer 2/1, NRNB. Basless cynicsim again just like now.

Your basically .. guessing.

I'm cynical because i do my own bets, and i've been stung ante post this season especially. As a general concensus punter you don't have to be cynical. You can go into your betting club threads and see that Mr B,E,F and Z are all backing a horse and you can join in because you can easily afford a 4 figure loss, and know that keeping on their side will see you alright. I decide my own bets the vast majority of the time, and have £120 quid on Workforce, have been stung a good few times this season, and 3 of my last bets have all came 2nd at 9/1, 6/1 and 11/2. Therefore luck isnb't on my side. As for being cynical i certainly am. I don't trust bookies, and i don't trust many trainers either. I think its a sensible approach.

personally i dont believe all the sh!te they print and talk about 40k and 80k bets for the simple reason that many ordinary punters will struggle to get 100 quid on let alone 40k.

rampers the lot of them!

That's right buses. 40 grand is a fart in the ocean when they will get it back off the machine on saturday. It was only Corals who took the bet, yet they're all odds on. I've placed another 50 quid on Workforce. How long do you think Confront can hold out for ?

Not sure WF @ 7/4 is my idea of the bet of the season but a lay of SYT @ ~1.9 looks worth a guinea or two

well as u may  or may not know im in the aussie handicappers camp   on the basis of the trip.

he is a mad price tho. i didnt have a bet but i think confront will lead them to the mile pole and then syt will go for it. can wf go with him? im not so sure.

obviously silly to completely dismiss snow fairy but it is asking a lot against these colts 1st time up after an injury.

You are absolutley clueless Graeme.

Exactly. I'm clueless. Being clueless puts me in a great position to spot like minded clueless people, and you're certainly one of them.

Graeme, you really have no idea what you are talking about.
I'd offer you the opportunity to win £1k off me, if I thought you'd except the challenge but people like you just go quiet and backdown thereafter, usually trotting out the ego/comp line.

Actions speak louder than words Graeme, so if you genuinely think im clueless, then we can put it to the test.

So You Think has the "tactical brilliance" to master just four rivals in Saturday's Coral-Eclipse Stakes, according to his overseas connections.

Aidan O'Brien's towering five-year-old has been one of the most talked-about horses of the Flat season, having arrived from Australia in January when Coolmore secured a controlling interest from Malaysian tycoon Dato Tan Chin Nam.

Chin Nam still retains a significant interest in So You Think, and will be desperate not to witness a repeat of his shuddering downfall at Royal Ascot.

But Duncan Ramage, racing and bloodstock manager for Chin Nam, is convinced the colt's turn of foot will this time help to avoid any potential skirmishing at Sandown, in what could emerge a muddling encounter.

Ramage said: "He has the tactical brilliance to get himself out of any trouble, so I'm not concerned about the lack of runners.

"You just have to look at his runs in Australia to realise just how his turn of foot can make all of the difference.

"In fact, I think his turn of foot is his greatest strength."

So You Think looked imperious in two starts in Ireland, but it all went horribly wrong in the Prince of Wales's Stakes, where he was sent off the 4-11 favourite.

O'Brien was swift to blame himself for not having his huge inmate fit enough for the big occasion, in which Ryan Moore kicked on fully two furlongs from home before succumbing to Rewilding's late punch.

Ramage added: "Every situation is a learning process, and I'm sure we can learn from Ascot, where things did not go entirely to plan.

"Aidan said that he had left a bit behind coming into Ascot, so he'll be confident of having a strong horse at Sandown.

"He had two wins prior to his run at Royal Ascot, so he should be seen in a better light at the weekend."

Seamie Heffernan will be hoping that is the case after the Ballydoyle stalwart was given the nod by his bosses to ride So You Think at the weekend.

Heffernan did the steering on the son of High Chaparral's European bow at the Curragh at the beginning of May, but Moore took over for both his victory in the Tattersalls Gold Cup and his reverse at Ascot.

Moore is, however, committed to riding Sir Michael Stoute's Workforce, last year's Derby and Arc winner, which has paved the way clear for Heffernan.

In an intriguing sub-plot, Snow Fairy has been declared to run the gauntlet against the supposed big two.

Ed Dunlop's four-time Group One winner also had the option of competing in the bet365 Lancashire Oaks on the same afternoon at Haydock.

The outstanding four-year-old, who will be ridden by Johnny Murtagh, strives to become the first filly to win the Eclipse since Kooyonga in 1992.

Sri Putra, last year's runner-up, and Stoute's Confront, who is likely to make the running, complete the final field.

Yes i think you're pretty clueless. As i admitted i'm clueless and i'm not a big staking punter, i see no point to your egoistic challenge. You don't have to know a lot about horses, bookies and horse racing racing to win bets. In fact in your case you merely need the ability to read and amass other peoples opinions and views.

Although i've posted and backed many losers so far this season, there have been plenty of winners too, and the thread you are referring to has many winners on it which no one else put up themselves. Again, you have no evidence to support you, which appears to be a recurring theme.

Good luck with you cynicism Graeme. I knwo for a fact it does not get you anywhere as I used to have a similar mindse. But i'll continue guessing and making a profit, whilst you struggle to make sense of facts.

eachway 1/4 odds too....thats only a 25% loss on the bet if SYT beats him into 2nd.

hmmm might be able to back them both like the french oaks.

Definitely a race to watch for me as would be worried about backing a stable out of form. IF Workforce is 100% I would expect him to win. He has a much better turn of foot than Rewilding and has stamina to boot. His pacemaker will set a stern test and that Sandown hill may well be the undoing of SYT. I see him winning a length and a half pulling away. Fascinating race in prospect either way. Just hope they both run to form.

Quite an interesting race.

On the one hand you know how Sir Michael feels about this race. His amazing record in it especially with all the close finishes with beaten horses and Workforce has been laid out just for this. Cant imagine this is a prep for the King George. This is it and he's got the world class form in the book.

Then on the other hand you've got this superstar pegasus of a horse who for the 1st time at Royal Ascot finally ran into a horse that actually stays 10furlongs better than he does and he's run into a similar horse again...at Sandown with a that nasty uphill finish.

He could ran an amazing take your breath away 10furlongs like he did when he won his 2nd Cox Plate but horses arent machines and when he was pushed to his absolute limit and taken out of his element last time he got found out. 

really intriguing race. quite amusing how a derby and arc winner can come into it with absolutely nothing to prove and in a seemingly no lose situation....i mean if he loses it like - whatever. he just got beat by SYT over 10furlongs. The pressure is all on Coolmore and SYT to get this right. It like they must win now. Thats the feeling I got from listening to Magnier post race last time. Like they have a major point to prove now. reputations and kudos got hurt at Royal Ascot.

Looking forward to it. Betting wise...I think SYT has been majorly overbet and will probably get even shorter on Saturday when the big aussie money comes. And he should be this short considering Workforce is far surperior to Rewilding and Sandown will suit him nicely. SYT has a real fight on his hands here.

Sintonian
As far as i can remember there was no excuse for his performance in the Dante. Though it could be said that he
put in a good performance that day but just bumped into cape blanco  on a going day.If he puts in the performances like the Derby and Arc he must have a very strong chance, but theres probably a 25% chance he won't.

As I remember Tinkler there WAS a reason for his poor run in the Dante. His bit snapped entering the straight. The Derby took a lot out of him last year which is why they now leave big gaps in between races (and which is why I doubt we'll be seeing him in the King George). Other than that his form is rock solid. He is PURE class this horse. Sint is right - SYT has it ALL to do.

The reason for his 'poor display' in the Dante is perhaps that it was his second career start. The winner that day had been winning group races at 2. How many other horses have run as well as that in a Dante after just one run at 2 and none at 3?

didnt the bit slip in the dante causing wf to hang.

Top post Gooner. This is a huge test for SYT, surely the biggest in his superb career.

He was outstanding in Aus but taking on a Derby/Arc winner is where he gets a real chance to prove just how good he is.

Ascot was a fk up but it will be long forgotten if he can knock of Workforce. He does appear slightly under the odds but I for one would love to see him do it.

A real favorite of mine from the minute I saw him win the Gloaming at Rosehill...

SYT too short for me again.

What I find rather comical is the way his defeat was celebrated like an Ashes win by the poms followed by the inevitable gloating about how they knew he wasn't any good to begin with. If they are not just "havin a larf" why can't I back him in anything at decent odds?

The bit slipped through his mouth in the Dante and he was also changing his legs around the bend due to the very quick Ground. That meeting there was several non-runners, and complaints from trainers(Michael Bell), due to how quick the ground was. Midday ran 2nd to Sariska at the meeting but was subsequently off the track for 77 days as she got jarred up.

Basically WF had plenty of excuses for his Dante ''defeat'' even though it was a smashing run on just his second start.

But this is a no bet race for me as WF is taking on a bonafide G1 horse over what appears to be his optimum conditions and had things go wrong for him at Ascot last time out,imo.

If Workforce was taking on an in-form Twice Over (last years winner) then i'd have no problem backing WF over this trip, but he is not so i'll just watch and let him win at 2/1 if that is what happens.

gl all!

Does anyone think that So You Think may drift back to evens at some stage tomorrow?
Surely there has to be money tomorrow for the Derby and Arc winner when he only has to beat a horse that was 2nd to Rewilding lto!

As it is I think So You Think will win but the opposition is too strong for me to play at odds on, might do the double with Wladimir Klitschko though at almost 2/1.

FWIW I don't believe a word that comes out of Corals in particular

It's no bet now isn't it?  So You Think beats Workforce on the ground i'd say.  Pray for rain Workforce backers!

"What I find rather comical is the way his defeat was celebrated like an Ashes win by the poms followed by the inevitable gloating about how they knew he wasn't any good to begin with. If they are not just "havin a larf" why can't I back him in anything at decent odds?"



Not as comical as a group of forum invading convicts thinking a New Zealand bred horse is actually Australian. If the horse doesn't win tomorrow he is not good enough to win. It doesn't matter that old Bart isn't the trainer. This horse faced nothing in Australia. He has everything in his favour.

So you Think is top class.  Is he the standard of a Champion European older horse? Maybe, but he has something to prove.

Workforce, really has little to prove.  There aren't many fluke Arc winners.

You're right there aren't many fluke Arc winners but you only have to watch the race last year to know that Workforce did win a fluke Arc.

Workforce has everything to prove tomorrow, winning the worst Derby in years and being extremely fortunate that the other top horses all took each other out in the Arc does not disguise his lack of toe in the Dante nor his performance at the King George.

sarafina shouldve won last yrs arc and had  moore been on the **** horse wf wouldve been 2nd (imo)

Moore wasn't on anything other , wf won, end of....it's in the book. Anything other than that is guess work. I'm tired of reading so and so would win this, so and so would win that.....they haven't; look in the record books.

Oh and I'd love to see Snow Fairy do them both tomorrow, I was fortunate enought to stand in drunken shock at Sha Tin in December when she produced a burst that had to be seen to be believed.

Snow Fairy shouldn't be underestimated and as for the Arc it's always a messy race. You have to have the tactical speed at the right times to stay out of it. I was on WF and Sarafina that day but the best horse won no doubt about it. I agree with HKAccie all of this ifs and buts is a load of bullshit. You don't break record times in Derby's and win Arc's through luck.

MM - I'm also ver smashed, i've been waiting for one horse to come out at sha tin for 4 months, it did today in race 2........and won at 13.5-1 i told everyone i knew about it....i had $2k hkd ew (GBP 160 ew).....i had the forecast and tierce too......smashed isn't the word!! I have to sat Snow Fairy's last 2f last year would put any colt to shame.

got a feeling ryan will try something tomorrow. maybe pull a frankel or do what SYT did in the PoW ie dont wait for the pace maker to comeback...just kick on as soon as and open up a lead on SYT and then rely on the horses guts and stamina in the final furlong.

ELG - don't want to be a pedant, but your post looks like you think RM will be riding SYT? Have i missed something in my drunken state?

Ahhh - I think I've got you

impossible to say the best horse won in wf arc as the 3rd was practically brought down but yes his name is in the record books alright and he was a worthy dinner on the day.

dinner?[smiley:crazy]

winner, sorry.

ILWAB - I do like your repluies, as you're a good read and seem to appreciate bothe sides of a discussion. It's like golf, you write a number on the card, don"t draw a picture of how you got the score. There's too many people professing to know too much about what would have been, if they knew that they'd be millionaires

He may be dinner tomorrow

People whining about Workforce and whether he was a worthy Arc winner need to remember, he was the only horse that went into the race with an outstanding performance in the book ie his Derby. And he won.  What more can he do?

FWIW tomorrow might not be his day, but his record is impeccable.

Jair - I'm with you, but then I like to see all good horses run well

i know what youre saying HK and i didnt back sarafina or anything but if she was to reappose wf this year at longchap i wouldnt be confident that he will confirm form. of course HE did it , he won and i appreciate that but i even remember saying right after the race, had ryan been on the 2nd i thought he wouldve won. i felt hewas the difference there.

but i take your point, as i often use the phrase 'if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle' and generally i dont go by what couldve been or what wouldve happened if... in fact it does annoy me but consideing what happened to sarafina at the top of the straight id give her a huge chance.

i like the aussie handicapper as i said for tomorrow but his odds are a joke at this stage.  tactics cost him the race last time imo but i dont think rewilding (fresh) should be underestimated. i keep hearing he 'ONLY' beat rewilding lto but ewilding would give wf a race if he had a sufficentg break between his races. thats what i think anyway. i dont buy the he wasnt ready sh!te from aob but who knows. we'll find out tomorrow. snow fairy will prob rout them both![smiley:crazy]

but even at 2/1 i cant have wf , purely on trip. arc and derby winners arent bad horses but i feel the trip will prob find him out tomorrow. on the surface 2/1 about an arc and derby winner seems crazy against an odds on aussie middle distance colt who has won t weak races and beat in his other but i feel he will do the business tomorrow but impossible to be confident.


gl

ILWAB - it's 3.40am here and i"ve had too much........it's hard to type sensibly!! Don't you think the hill may play into WF's hands? I'm not backing in the race bar a little sentimental bet with Snow Fairy just in case.....was the best thing i saw last year, though out here we don't see that much!! Looking forward to the Int'l sprint this year though when the aussies send up the next superstar sprinter! Good Luck to all tomorrow. hope it lives up to the race it should be.

the 2/1 wf will be available again tomorrow morning in the high street, form a queue arbers outside the maggic sign establishments

From a sporting contest point of view I hope both horses turn up in peak condition, get a clear run and its
run at a reasonable pace and that we get a great race.

im all in

so you think maybe a wonder horse but a derby/arc winner is pretty smart.

Thou the small field is sh1te.

As I've already said, I have no idea which horse will win, but I'm interested that many are of the opinion Workforce will be inconvenienced by the distance. Are genuine Group 1 middle distance horses ever inconvenienced by running over 10f? I can't say I've ever noticed any "top class" 12f horses over the years that couldn't perform equally well over 2f less.

I had thought So You Think would win but the more I think, the more I think Workforce.

He's been beaten twice, once on seasonal debut when his bit slipped and once round the gaff track.  Forgive any horse that.

He'll have come on for the run and it's not all bad news re: Stoute as Class is Class showed the other day.

RMB ©     29 Jun 11 08:41 
SYT at odds against and evens still in a few places is a stonking bet.

Dissapointed that Sir Michael and Khalid Abduhlla would run a proper proven 1m4f soft ground horse in a fast ground Eclipse just in the hope (and thats all it was) that it might enhance it's stallion credentials. ran as well as could be expected - hope they give it a break until the Arc now.

super race.


wd syt.

wf ran a cracker.

sf was diasppointing if anything buet 1st run after an injury against v good colts, all is not lost!

wd if u profited from the race!

HK wont be disappointed anyway when he wakes up if he hasnt seen it already!


gl

Not much in it. Two high class horses both ran well. Good time. Not sure if there is any significance in Sri Putra being a length closer than at Ascot.
Ground probably just a little bit too lively for Workforce in the end. Softer going could well have seen a different result. Having said that the ground was what it was, and the best horse won on the day, Workforce lost little if anything in defeat. I'm sure Snow Fairy will come on for that and the Yorkshire Oaks or the Nassau must be on the horizon

it was a great race and well done workforce running so well on a trip thats not his best, cant see anyone to touch him over 12 , the king george is there for the taking if reproducing that run , but .cant see him going

We learnt nothing we didn't already know about Workforce who's a 12f plodder with no toe and So You Think isn't all that(talk of Cox Plate confirms this).

Neither will feature in the winners enclosure in the big races at the end of the year.

Ridiculous post,imo.

Nice 1,2 for TTF goers. [:D]

think you should watch last years arc again, if you really think he is a plodder

thought workforce ran a cracking race yesterday, right up with his best performances. and in doing so proved he is very effective over 10f. was beaten by a better horse.

workforce, frankel, so you think, carlton house....the 4 of them should get it on in the juddemont international imo.

according to some forumites....

workforce - a 12f soft ground plodder
Frankel - a lunatic miler who'd be better off in the July Cup
SYT - Overrated Ozzie.
Carlton House - overhyped donkey from the Queen.

I think having Workforce for dinner is probably a bit of a waste of a good animal.  Prob got another Gp 1 or two in him and must be worth a few bob in stallion fees.

However I guess if you are starving...............