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Aidan O'brien
Aidan O'brien
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This where i believe Adan truly stuffed up, especially knowing SYT can stay given hes run 2 miles, he talked about bringing him back to 1 mile and ran him in two soft races when he had the chance to at least go the Lockinge on English soil for one of those races.
IMHO Adan has taken the too soft approach to this race and is targeting the wrong distance as well going forward. Mistake. |
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The thing is if the horse had held on and won by a neck?, everyone would probably be saying he was idling out in front, the r/up was flattered to get so close to him etc etc and all that blah.
Can nobody except the fact the horse is probably not as good as you thought or wanted him to be?, hence excuses flying everywhere, so they were 6L clear of the third, and even if Planteur disappointed he's hardly the greatest yardstick as he's been beaten numerous times before at the top level!. |
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I am Irish and I think O'Brien is the best trainer of racehorses in the world. Call me foolish if you want but from Cummings to Pletcher, and Sumii to Fabre, O'Brien has no superior IMO. However, soemtimes he dosen't help himself with his comments, e.g. championing So You Think before this race.
I do think there is an element of truth in what he says about SYT's condition though. Naturally, since this horse has a lot more targets this season, we should have expected that he wouldn't be 'fully' trained up for this. Now by that I mean, there probably is 5-10% improvement to come, which could amount to a lot. I think that is a fair assertion? The colt is clearly very smart, and a second in the Prince of Wales' confirms that. However, he has not proved himself the champion on these shores that I and others said he would amount to. For that, we must give credit to those who called it right. HOWEVER, I am standing by what I said earlier, and I expect, an improved run next time out. He will prove himself a champion before the end of the season, that is my belief. |
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"I do think there is an element of truth in what he says about SYT's condition though"
I don't. If SYT is the best horse he's ever trained, then he's obviously been fit enough to prove this at home. So whichever way you look at it, he's talking a load of old baws. |
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I have given my blessing to the winner already and moved on from that.
At the end of the day im the OP of the thread which i started yesterday, I was sensing trouble brewing before this race even began. This is a debacle by any stretch of the imagination, declaring a horse "the best ever" after training it for two pi$$ weak Irish race wins. Bart Cummings is on record as saying he "could be" his best ever and he had the record to at least back it up in Australia. This only goes to show Adan O'brien has drunk too much of his own Koole Aid. |
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One race though is very quick to say he isn't as good as they say. The bubble has been burst but i think he come good over the summer. Provided they don't make a complete balls up of the tactics something which Coolmore have done plenty times before.
On another note Zarooni is having a great start to his new career...hopefully they get rid of Suroor, if that has not shown Sheikh who to back in a 2 horse race i don't know what will. |
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Graeme, I have no opinion on the pecking order of Aidan O'Brien trained horses. Personally, I was very fond of George Washington but I'm afraid I might be laughed at if I said he was the best he'd trained.
I was just refering to what Aidan said after today's race. I think So You Think will improve from today. He knows he took a gamble and it almost paid off, but ultimately it didn't. They should have trained him up more for today but that was at the risk of sacrificing later targets. |
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Well im finished with my comments on this matter for now and moving on, i have business to attend to.
Whats his next race target then do you think? |
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Many would say George was the best AO'B's trained - personally I'd go for Dylan Thomas.
Clearly a very good horse So You think but needlessly hyped by by the trainer. Must have a good chance if he goes for the Eclipse. This race should have put him spot on.  |
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Was it East Lower Gooner who said he'll go for the Classic?
That could be the ultimate aim? Maybe they are trying not to ruin that chance by having him over the top but at the same time, they are trying to sneak a few Group Ones along the way. Not sure if many would say that AT, bar maybe me! Giant's Causeway, Galileo, Yeats weren't bad. But George was unique in his own way! |
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We'll see whether SYT was not fully tuned up for today in good time but it was bad form by the trainer to deflect attention from the winner by making excuses. If he was not tuned up, it was bad form of O'Brien not to let us know before the race. Or maybe he's just trying to protect SYT's stud value. Before the race the trainer talking about SYT as if he did not need training, as if he could perform miracles, but of course that was more typical gas and hype from Coolmore.
Incidentally, the very best horse Aidan has trained, by a country mile, was the invincible, the incomparable ISTABRAQ. |
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I'll throw this out there, see what people think but could they give So You Think a break? Come back for the Irish Champion and then the Classic?
Let Zoffany go to the Sussex and QEII, St. Nicholas Abbey to the King George, Cape Blanco / Await The Dawn / Roderic O'Connor for the Internaional and the Eclipse. The Derby horses are there as well for those kind of races. |
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Take the winner out and he'd be lauded as a champion.
The excuses were on message but clearly bulls***, both horses are high 120s AT LEAST and a big thankyou to the recession for making the bloodstock world think fk it, let's just race 'em. Rewilding is clearly some tool though and running it at such a pace helped him into the race, as did the stiff finish. |
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I really cant believe anyone would believe Aidan had this horse anything but 100% fit today. My Word.
The tactics cost SYT today. He was keen, got messed around with when the pacemaker flew past, and got nutted on the line by an improving horse from a top yard. Run the race again, with a proper experience jockey on the second string and not the trainers son, and SYT would win. |
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jan vermeer missed the break, i dont think o'brien jnr can be blamed for that.
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Agree Sint - not spot on for the Prince of Wales? What is the POW a prep for exactly? Not telling punters in advance he was not spot on? His wife (I think) tweeting that he'd worked like pegasus? I think the true picture is as Sint describes, and clutching onto another narrative is a bit desperate - He was keen, got messed around with when the pacemaker flew past, and got nutted on the line by an improving horse from a top yard.
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Why can't people just accept the idea that Rewilding might be a better horse?
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Jair - you may be right, I am just trying to point out the rank stupidity of O'Briens's position before the race and after the race.
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Nothing to do with tactics, nothing to do with fitness. The horse was totally unproven in this country and was a ridiculous price caused only by the hype coming from the trainer which so many believed.
He has still run a hell of a race and is still a hell of a horse - just not the superstar that AOB had us believing he was. |
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Like Zoffany yesterday Rewilding benefited from being held up at the back of an extremely strong pace. SYT didn't go as early as Frankel but suffered the same problems in the final furlong. In a strongly run contest the horse that runs the most evenly paced race always wins - unless there's a freak like Frankel in it.
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OK fair do's. Was the time quick ?
I just think if the race was run again over 10f you might see a different result. Only by a margin, mind you, as Rewilding is clearly top class and they have always rated him since they got him from Fabres. On a line through Rewilding ... Workforce would smash him 10 lengths   |
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There was a massive sting in the tail for Frankie Dettori as he picked up a nine-day suspension for using his whip with excessive frequency on Rewilding in the Prince Of Wales' Stakes at Royal Ascot.
The stewards found the Italian hit the winner 24 times inside the final two furlongs and he will now be sidelined from June 29-July 7 - he misses the Coral-Eclipse at Sandown and the first day of the July meeting at Newmarket. It is the second lengthy ban incurred by Dettori in the space of a few weeks after he was suspended for 10 days for not riding out to the line on Blue Bunting in the Oaks at Epsom, being narrowly denied third place as a result. |
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Rewilding's Voltigeur win was also coming off a fast pace - seems to be what the horse wants.
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I'm back for a further post mortem on this, forum member SoYouThink thinks O'Brien is a superior trainer to Bart Cummings, not a hope in hell my friend, this debacle today just confirms this as fact.
12 Melbourne Cups make Bart Cummings a Legend in the truest sense of the word, you wont find people bagging out Bart Cummings like i am with O'Brien for mouthing off complete BS for weeks/months after winning two grade F Irish races. Just wouldn't happen, O'brien lives in fairy land, Bart lives in the real world with results to back him up not future BS predictions sprouted daily. I was actually receiving Google alerts on So You think for two months which is why i have the evidence of this garbage O'Brien sprouts on about daily, sometimes three or four times a day i get these ridiculous emails with O'Brien talking complete $hit. The reason i started this thread, yesterday well before the race was that i was completely fed up with constant stream of crap spewing from this mans mouth as this race approached, enough was enough. Im on record already on this forum saying the risk of these crap races leading up was at risk of making SYT soft under a real test, so i feel vindicated given what O'Brien said today. I hope he learns something from this experience and pulls his fuc$ing head in. Luckily im also on record as having greened up on this race so im not even that angry but some Aussie put 200k on him today from what i heard, if i was him id be realy pi$$ed! |
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top ten o brien horses (flat horses only)
1. yeats 2. dylan thomas 3. galileo 4. george washington 5. rock of gibraltar 6. giants causeway 7. henry the navigator 8. hawk wing 9. alexandrova 10. high chapparal top ten overhyped o brien horses 1. so you think 2. star spangled banner 3. steinbeck 4. st nicholas abbey 5. fame and glory 6. haradasun 7. rip van winkle 8. recital 9. hold that tiger 10.jan vermeer |
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High Chapparal should be in the top 2 or 3 for me.
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Force, Oz sprinters may be amongst the best in the world but if My Kingdom Of Fife and Glass Harmonium are competitive in group one and two races beating Shoot Out and Ginga Dude who have form with SYT then your middle distance form wouldnt make your osses 4/11 in group Ones at Royal Ascot
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Just got one of those Google Alerts im talking about , looks liek its back to reality,
Trainer O'Brien takes blame after Stakes defeat at Ascot Bangkok Post Trainer Aidan O'Brien took the blame after So You Think was beaten in the Prince Of Wales's Stakes by Godolphin's Rewilding at Royal Ascot on Wednesday. ... |
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I am saying O'Brien is a superior horse handler to Cummings FM. PR wise APOB would only get a 2/10 but we all know part of his job is to say things like he says. I am sconvinced that it is with great reluctance he makes these type of comments. By the way, I know there is not a person in the whole of Australia who will agree with my first sentence either.
Sint - you could have a point about tactics. However, my belief is that Aidan tried to nick this race whilst leaving something to work on for future races. It was a risk, and ultimately, it didn't pay off. But only just will it go down as a fail. I think people have interpretated Aidan's comments wrong as well. This was not a prep for something else, and the horse was fit - people should not think otherwise as I don't think reference was made to those kind of things. Remember the horse's ultimate target is going to be the Classic or the Arc - and that is when you want to peak. You most certainly don't want to peak in June. Magnier said the exact same thing after the Curragh. We can take it that we will see a much better horse in the Champion Stakes. |
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Rewilding is much improved as well. Congrats to Godolphin and Frankie. They strike when you least expect it.
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Anyone who thinks SYT wasn't A1 today needs to think again imo.
So the Aussie view is that the trainer messed it up? I say his record says that he's a 126-128 horse and that's what he's run today, if not better. Rewilding's record off a break since joining his current trainer? 1111 and he's clearly improved over the winter. So You Think is clearly top class but top class and beating up Aussie middle-distancers and top class and beating European middle-distancers are different things. He might even be the second best 1m 2f horse in Europe and there's no shame in that. |
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Seems Aidan did say he hadn't him fit enough.
Hmm I wonder what he means by this. The way he ran I think the horse was fit. How fit is 'fit enough' then? I guess he kind of means he hadn't got him in peak physical condition. Which is what I was saying earlier. Crux of my argument is that he will improve from today, although by how much I don't know. Rewilding is clearly very good too and they pulled a decent way clear of the rest. |
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A few points to make on all the above:
Ok so I'm no fan of AOB's PR technique but Force Majeur lets face it Bart has been coming out with some sh1te himself in the last few weeks so your hardly in a position to talk about that. Besides the PR stuff had no bearing on today's result. As for all this "he wasnt fit" rubbish, he's had 2 races and Maureen was tweeting about how he left his work companion 15 lengths behind the other day. Now he needed the run. He might well improve but Rewilding is far less exposed than he is and is STILL improving and there is a fair chance he is not the best middle distance horse in Europe anyway. Ultimately today SYT was outstayed by a horse that gets a mile and a half on his head and who had the race set up perfectly for him. It was no disgrace to be beaten but, as stated above, beating Oz middle distance horses and beating European ones are very different things. I would not be at all surprised to see him win another Group 1 again this year, perhaps the Irish Champion where it often cuts up, but I think he may struggle against the very best. |
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Aiden O'Brien has went from a quiet unassuming guy to believing the hype and mythical status that the media and sycophantic public adorned on him, he would afterall be living in the shadow of a guy called Vincent when he took over the reins, and yet has imo become totally possessed in his quest to be talked about in the same terms or if he had his way on superior terms than his great predecessor.
Aiden sorry to say but you don't even come close, in fact Vincent is probably overrated too but at least he was the one who built the empire you now reap the benefits of!. The fact is any half decent trainer can train good horses, no point in me telling you to not lose the run of yourself because you already have, those pictures of you and your unfortunate children with jockeys in tow walking up the centre of various racecourses with the darkest of dark shades on tells me you're probably not the full shilling these days??. |
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"those pictures of you and your unfortunate children with jockeys in tow walking up the centre of various racecourses with the darkest of dark shades on tells me you're probably not the full shilling these days??. "
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He's a good trainer. I can't judge trainers against others as they have different horses and use different techniques and methods. The excuses are tiresome and skimming past valuable answers are no use for race fans. However i wouldn't really question his record or ability as a trainer. I just wish he's stop the antagonism. People ain't daft and know if his horses are good or not.
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Nobody is questioning that he's a good trainer graeme83, just that there does seem to be some sort of mentality out there that only Aiden could have won all those group one races, we all know he'll lose more group one races than he'll ever win, you know why? because the horse wins a race not a trainer, if the horse is slow, its goddamn slow!, no trainer in the world can make it go any faster, but for some reason we have in horse racing fans psyche that somehow Henry, Michael and Aiden are after performing some sort of act of god because a bloody well bred horse can actually run faster than the rest?.
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He's a good trainer alright but he's also an employee and when a horse that's cost untold millions loses one of the races it's supposed to win, someone has to take the rap. With breeding considerations abound, it sure ain't gonna be the horse.
Any different on the other side? No it's not, Dettori was extremely gracious in victory and thanked Sheikh Mohammed and could Al Zarooni take any credit? Certainly not! He graciously thanked the Sheikh for his knowledge and the opportunity to train the horse! Basically at this level, when you win it's thanks to the owner and the horse and when you lose it's the jockey or the trainer's fault. Hilarious really And as for Tom Queally, when you win it's the jockey's fault! |
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that was a bad ride though Jair tbf
16 posts since I last logged on and not one mention of Dettori whipping the bejesus out of Rewilding. Lol Silvergreaser. |
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No comments about the ex Stoute listed G3 runners doing well at the top level out in oz???
You have the best sprinters, be wise enough to admit you dont rule at all disatnces |