Frankel vs Canford Cliffs vs Goldikova

Would Frankel not make it like in the Guineas?

Aye.

Personally think Canford Cliffs is the real deal. travels well, sees out the trip well, puts the race to bed in a matter of strides and saves energy by just doing enough. Very akin to Big Buck's. If there's something to aim at he'll catch them

Think as last year went on connections learned exactly how he should be ridden. Can see him going unbeaten this year

He's in my TTF list and will be unbeaten for as long as he avoids Frankel,imo.

goldi wont go but if she did she'd win

Can't see all 3 of them meeting anywhere but the Breeders Cup, and personally wouldn't be surprised if Frankel never meets either.

You have Goldikova, Canford Cliffs and So You Think pencilled in for the Queen Anne, but it looks like SYT will be in the Prince of Wales instead, but that would be a good contest IMO.

geoff m, not trying to score points but if this was being run next week the betting would be something like 4/7 Frankel, 7/2 Goldikova & 9/2 Canford Cliffs (around 106%), believe me 10/11 would'nt last long.

Aha!!! the inevitable post. But will it ever happen?

First off forget Goldikova she simply isn't that good. She's a star in her own right but when you consider how close Paco Boy has come to beating her it doesn't take much imagination to work out what Canford Cliffs would do to her. In Hughsies own word Canfor Cliffs is in a different county to his stablemate.

I sincerely doubt connections will be in any hurry to be taking him on and she won't go within a mile of Frankel unless it's at the Breeders. Personally I think if Frankel keeps going the way he's going and they were set to meet excuses would be made and they'd retire her rather than see her lose badly.

Don't mean to offend anyone but this is all about Canford Cliffs V Frankel the mare doesn't come into it.

Being a huge fan of both horses despite having lost my balls when Canford was beaten in France (the swine, but boy has he made up for it), makes it easy not to be influenced by rose coloured glasses.

Like everyone I was blown away by Frankel's display in the Guineas. I had said before he was potentially the best racehorse since Sea Bird II but even I wasn't expecting what we saw.

Burt ask yourself this. Frankel was as you would expect slowing in the closing stages and the horse who followed him home was non other than Canford Cliff's much inferior stable companion, Dubai whatitsname?

No matter his name he wouldn't be anywhere near as good as Canford Cliffs and had that been him following Frankel what then. You'd have to think he'd have gotten a lot closer and perhaps even pegged him back.

I'm not saying Canford Cliffs is a better horse than Frankel but what concerns me is what I am hearing from Warren Place. Apparently they no longer try to settle Frankel at home they just let him go whatever speed he wants to and that the same tactics used in the Guineas will be the way forward for Frankel.

Perhaps Frankel is the best since the great French colt but if they are going to ride him like that against a horse like Canford Cliffs he'll have to be.

I just can't see them trying to do another 2000 guineas no matter how strong a gallop he can go. If there is one way to get him beat it's to go tearing off at a million mph and be running out of gas with a horse like CC chasing after you.

It would e far more sensible to hold him up for at least 4 or 5 furlongs then use that unbelievable mid race speed to settle matters and not run out of gas.

What goes against this rumour he will be ridden the same way again is the fact that the owner according to William Hill is keen to run him in a race he sponsors but has never won. The Juddmonte over 10 furlongs at York.

To be honest this Frankel V Canford Cliffs may never happen. Richard Hannon has also spoken about stepping Canford Cliffs up to 10 furlongs so if either he or Frankel do it makes it very easy to avoid each other.

We'd all like to see it but look at Sea the Stars. He was kept to 10 Furlongs with good reason. Rip Van Winkle was best at a mile as was Mastercraftsmen and Fame and Glory is now being spoken off as a possible Gold Cup horse. A brilliant piece of placing by his trainer and kid glove handling by a great jockey meant the horse never had a single hard race leading up to the Arc. That was probably the only time we saw the real Sea the Stars as they knew it was going to be his last race. How good he actually was is hard to say but they kept him unbeaten and his shed value soared which is what it's all about.

The difference is Frankel has a real horse to contend with if meeting Canford over 1 mile because unlike those Sea the Stars met that is without doubt his proper trip. So make no mistake Frankel has everything to lose and Canford Cliffs has everything to gain.

My guess is if  Canford Cliffs wins his next couple and looks as impressive as ever where he goes Henry wont so don't hold your breath.

Goldikova has won 12 Group Ones - including three times at the Breeders Cup. If this is not the mark of a great horse, then I don't know what is. Her connections have never shyed away from a challenge, in fact she's beaten all milers of any substance that there's been since 2006: Darjina, Paco Boy, Henrythenavigator, Natagora, Kip Deville, Elusive Wave, Silver Frost, Gladiatorus, Delegator, Rip Van Winkle, Dick Turpin and Gio Pointi. So I would say, she is more than just not that good.

The only way Cecil would dodge a meeting with Canford Cliffs would be if it did'nt suit Frankel's future targets, why would he be scared of a horse who is inferior in every way. Frankel would eat him for breakfast, can't understand why there is even a debate about their relative merits but i suppose everyone's entitled to an opinion.

Are Goldi and Canford both being aimed at the Queen Anne?

anyone who judges the distance between goldi and paco boy as a literal reflection of the mere superiorty over him needs to be locked up.

ty.

COT... You can't have it both ways. On one hand you say Frankel would have to improve and in your next post you bring in Timeform rating to makee a case for Goldikova beating Canford.

Must have slipped your mind that Frankel was given 132 by Timeform before he had even won the Guineas.

Forget ratings and use your imagination.

Goldikova has never beat anything of real quality or at least not without them running below par.

You quote Henrythenavigator and Natagora for starters who both run behind Paco Boy so unless you want us to believe Paco Boy was a better horse than either of them why even mention the fact they finished behind her?

You mention Elusive Wave but fail to mentionwhen she beat her 1 1/2 lengths it was at a time when Elusie Wave had lost her form completely, in between getting beaten over 6 lengths  by Ghanaati and then getting stuffed by over a dozen lengths by Aqlaam. In fact she won one poxy race after that when she beat nothing.

Gladatorious was a one hit wonder, Delegator wouldn't get a mile in a bus. Sure she beat Rip Van Winkle but so did friggin Zacinto and another couple of monkees that day.


About the only times she was up against anything half decent is when she beat Paco Boy and and Makfi and neither of them proved to be Supertars far from it.

Zarkava was in a different league to her and had she been kept at a mile Goldikova wouldn't have won didly squat and that wasn't even Zarkava's best trip.

Ratings are 10 a penny when you are comparing them to horses who are overrated in the first place. That's exactly how Master Minded was rated above Denman and Kauto Star becuase Voy Por Ustedes the worst QMCC winner in years was already rated too high.

Goldikova is a very good mare who is ultra consistent but she lacks real star quality.

She will never be put up against Frankel you can bet your life on it and if they do take on Canford Cliffs she would be blown away by the Hannon monster.

Since he cam to himself and matured fully  after a poor start last season, Hughsie has always ridden Canford Cliffs within whatever pace is put to him him and just picked up and gone past what's front of him.

There's a lot more in that tank if needed and should Goldikova ever cross paths with him she'll find he's a totally different ball game to anything she has tackled before. Barring Zarkava of course.

Rondetto     Joined: 20 Jul 10
Replies: 563 15 May 11 05:12
Goldikova is a very good mare who is ultra consistent but she lacks real star quality.

ROFL this gets better

Im with Rondetto.
Goldikova has picked up an awe of invincibility & sequence of wins by being a very good horse but not a great.
Twice she met Zarkava(a great imo) and not just get beat but got blown away on both occassions. for those that argue 1 was over a trip 2 far for Goldi you could argue both where over a trip 2 short for Zarkava(certainly the Pouliches was but class was the winner).
Im in the Frankel (is & will prove to be a great) & would blow Goldi and Canford away .

There is no way in hell that goldi will beat Canford in the queen anne,the prices will have flipped flopped before to long and Canford will go off evens or even shorter,i wont knock Goldi as she has won me more money than i would care to count but the fact is that Canford is a different class of beast all together.without doubt as big a banker as you will get all week at royal ascot

I think people are now getting carried away with Canford Cliffs. While he travelled well in the Lockinge he didn't find as much at the end of the race as you might have expected. In may ways, similar to Paco Boy. It was hardly a vintage Lockinge. Goldikova has far stronger form in the book. She was idling in front in the Queen Anne last year. I'll still be backing Goldi to beat Canford Cliffs.
I think it's a shame Frankel is being restricted to a mile. Would still love to see him run in the Derby. Connections have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

i've just heard that freddie head has vacated his training premises and that rondetto has taken over, as he clearly knows a lot more about horses

mythical prince

'deary me wheres the head in hands man when you need one. you claim to have won more than you can count on goldikova yet you still don't seem to appreciate how good she is.. all makes sense now'

i dont remember saying that goldi was not all that in my post d1ck brain,obviously she is and exceptional mare,the plain fact that i was making is that Canford is an exceptional Colt and simpley better than her.a point which will be proven next month and and as for Canford being a bridle horse what a muppet.

Hannon-'he is the best horse i have trained in my 40 years work,

Hughes-'he is the best horse i have ever ridden and the best horse i will ever ride'

clearly they dont think he is a bridle horse with no speed