Horse Antepost
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
perhaps now that his substitute has flopped the machine will be allowed to show...
Show More
the 142 is provisional but as I said time and time gain before the Guineas this is the best since Sea Bird II.
How can you justify giving him less is what I would like to know. He's made Group 1 winners look like selling platers.
The very same Group1 winners some would have had you believe could beat him but as it turned out the couldn't even lie up with him.
Can it be that all the horse who raced yesterday are near useless or is Frankel exceptional well worth his 142 rating?
If you have to ask yourself that question your in the wrong game IMO.
How can you justify giving him less is what I would like to know. He's made Group 1 winners look like selling platers.
The very same Group1 winners some would have had you believe could beat him but as it turned out the couldn't even lie up with him.
Can it be that all the horse who raced yesterday are near useless or is Frankel exceptional well worth his 142 rating?
If you have to ask yourself that question your in the wrong game IMO.
Rondetto, are you saying Dubawi Gold and Native Khan are 130 horses though? That's the problem with ratings!!
I have to say I am completely in agreement with COT. As I watched this I couldnt believe what I was seeing. If you had paused it at halfway, I would have sworn that he would be swallowed up up the hill. That he wasnt is testament to his stamina as well as his incredible speed and stride but can't help worrying that the race will have left its mark.
Queally's ride was similar to the one he gave Twice Over in the Eclipse when he KNEW he was on the best horse and blasted away giving the horse a harder ride than was probably necessary.
As for the opposition - I think the result in behind would have been totally different had Frankel not been in the field. Those that tried to stay with him were obliterated with the exception of Native Khan who always struck me as horse that needed further. For those of you knocking NK, it is worth remembering his trainers comments - the same guy who trains Snow Fairy and trained Ouija Board. They knew they had a nice horse.
It seems now a common theme that previously good horses fall apart when they have to take on Frankel. No coincidence there - he detroys them. A bit like when Nacarat tried to cling on to Kauto a couple of years ago in the KG and ended up 4th when clearly the second best horse.
I hope Henry doesnt run him in the Dante but he will do what is best of that you can be sure. He NEVER over-runs his horses.
As for the Derby, again agree with COT that he will have to learn to settle but would not put anything past the trainer or this extraordinary horse.
Queally's ride was similar to the one he gave Twice Over in the Eclipse when he KNEW he was on the best horse and blasted away giving the horse a harder ride than was probably necessary.
As for the opposition - I think the result in behind would have been totally different had Frankel not been in the field. Those that tried to stay with him were obliterated with the exception of Native Khan who always struck me as horse that needed further. For those of you knocking NK, it is worth remembering his trainers comments - the same guy who trains Snow Fairy and trained Ouija Board. They knew they had a nice horse.
It seems now a common theme that previously good horses fall apart when they have to take on Frankel. No coincidence there - he detroys them. A bit like when Nacarat tried to cling on to Kauto a couple of years ago in the KG and ended up 4th when clearly the second best horse.
I hope Henry doesnt run him in the Dante but he will do what is best of that you can be sure. He NEVER over-runs his horses.
As for the Derby, again agree with COT that he will have to learn to settle but would not put anything past the trainer or this extraordinary horse.
I wonder if the presence of World Domination and Workforce in the same ownership will have a bearing on their decision.
Would be fascinating to see Frankel in the Derby, but equally it would be great to see him take on Goldikova over a mile, or even drop back for the July Cup.
A season to savour, whatever their decision.
Would be fascinating to see Frankel in the Derby, but equally it would be great to see him take on Goldikova over a mile, or even drop back for the July Cup.
A season to savour, whatever their decision.
Howellsy you are talking to the converted. I had a fight for weeks with Timeform about Dream Ahead saying they had to be joking rating rating him up there with Frankel. A blind man could see the ground beat the horses he beat and the rating was wrong so yes they can get it wrong but the fact is something had to finish second to Frankel today.
Had it been run like a normal race those who wilted early wouldn't have and I dare say the placings may have altered. Timeform could give him an even higher rating based on how far he beat Pathfork and Casamneto but they pulled the reins back and got it just about right IMO.
Sea Bird II has been up therefor a very long time I reckon Frankelwill go on to bigger and better things maybe even run at 4 years old being Henrys and finish with a rating so high it will never be beaten. He really does look that good to me.
Had it been run like a normal race those who wilted early wouldn't have and I dare say the placings may have altered. Timeform could give him an even higher rating based on how far he beat Pathfork and Casamneto but they pulled the reins back and got it just about right IMO.
Sea Bird II has been up therefor a very long time I reckon Frankelwill go on to bigger and better things maybe even run at 4 years old being Henrys and finish with a rating so high it will never be beaten. He really does look that good to me.
Having seen that race you do wonder what sort of horse Tudor Minstrel must have been to win the 2000 Guineas by 8 lengths - this is probably the most extraordinary performance since then, even allowing for the fabulous races run by Brigadier gerard, Kings Best and Zafonic.
of course tudor minstrel lost the derby (failed to see the trip out).
Frankel has amazing speed, and it might be that he is just too fast to get home in the Derby - this is my best guess. However he does seem to be a bit of a freak. He also has a true genius training him. Frankel is bred to stay 12 furlongs and when they are bred to stay they usually do. He has actually shown, in the Dewhurst and in the Greenham, the ability to settle (after just a little while) too.
If Frankel can be helped to agree to go a sensible sort of pace in the Derby, one burst of speed at around the 2 furlong poll would certainly be enough to settle matters.
If he goes off like he did in the guineas there is no chance of him staying, but Henry knows this as well as we do.
Statistics are often shattered and shown be pretty useless by events and time to come. When they are shattered its often because a great horse comes along and makes "normal rules" irrelevant. I think Frankel will struggle to get home in the Derby. However he might just be so good, (he is certainly better imo than Sea The Stars was at this stage of his career) that he can win atv all distances from 8 to 16 furlongs. That Australian brute now at Ballydoyle), a group 1 winner at 9 furlongs damned near won the Melbourne Cup so it can be done!
of course tudor minstrel lost the derby (failed to see the trip out).
Frankel has amazing speed, and it might be that he is just too fast to get home in the Derby - this is my best guess. However he does seem to be a bit of a freak. He also has a true genius training him. Frankel is bred to stay 12 furlongs and when they are bred to stay they usually do. He has actually shown, in the Dewhurst and in the Greenham, the ability to settle (after just a little while) too.
If Frankel can be helped to agree to go a sensible sort of pace in the Derby, one burst of speed at around the 2 furlong poll would certainly be enough to settle matters.
If he goes off like he did in the guineas there is no chance of him staying, but Henry knows this as well as we do.
Statistics are often shattered and shown be pretty useless by events and time to come. When they are shattered its often because a great horse comes along and makes "normal rules" irrelevant. I think Frankel will struggle to get home in the Derby. However he might just be so good, (he is certainly better imo than Sea The Stars was at this stage of his career) that he can win atv all distances from 8 to 16 furlongs. That Australian brute now at Ballydoyle), a group 1 winner at 9 furlongs damned near won the Melbourne Cup so it can be done!
Wow, what a performance. Whatever happens, a true champion.
Just hope that they don't go to the Dante. He did have a hard race and I agree that Queally did not give him the best ride, and if ridden out front with a little more restraint could actually have won further. Also not a great message to send to the horse with future races in mind. Going to York less than 2 weeks after that would be silly. If they got a small field, what would they actually learn?
I disagree with you joni about Cecil overracing his horses. He has always shown a tendency to go for what he considers prestige races for his top 3yos and towards the end of the season they have never performed to the same level. The one exception was Bosra Sham and she missed the middle of the season with injury. We need to see this horse competing in the best all aged races over whatever distance. Personally I would love to see him race against Canford Cliffs and Goldikova.
As for ratings, time will only tell. NK was 11 lengths clear of the 4th horse and I believe will continue to improve over a distance.
The thread is all about Frankel and the Derby and I have always been of the opinion that it isn't the race for him. Yesterday showed why to me, he just has brute speed.
If he does go the Derby route however I will really hope he wins as have no other financial interest surviving in the race.
Just hope that they don't go to the Dante. He did have a hard race and I agree that Queally did not give him the best ride, and if ridden out front with a little more restraint could actually have won further. Also not a great message to send to the horse with future races in mind. Going to York less than 2 weeks after that would be silly. If they got a small field, what would they actually learn?
I disagree with you joni about Cecil overracing his horses. He has always shown a tendency to go for what he considers prestige races for his top 3yos and towards the end of the season they have never performed to the same level. The one exception was Bosra Sham and she missed the middle of the season with injury. We need to see this horse competing in the best all aged races over whatever distance. Personally I would love to see him race against Canford Cliffs and Goldikova.
As for ratings, time will only tell. NK was 11 lengths clear of the 4th horse and I believe will continue to improve over a distance.
The thread is all about Frankel and the Derby and I have always been of the opinion that it isn't the race for him. Yesterday showed why to me, he just has brute speed.
If he does go the Derby route however I will really hope he wins as have no other financial interest surviving in the race.
Id be very surprised to see him at York next week but what a performance yesterday, im not old enough to remember it but it must have been shades of 1947, was quite interesting that he didnt seem to move right in the closing stages either as he's done in previous races.
He seemed to settle ok in his 2yo races and it was a probable combination of freshness and a crawl in the Greenham that caused him to throw his head around a little, he's the Arse of a sprinter but could just be a freak, only thing being that having been set alight once in this fashion will they be able to stop him as well in the future, either way its going to make for a interesting few months ahead. His presence in the Derby betting with the refusal of the Bookmakers to lengthen anything else makes it a virtual no bet race unless you take the 7/2 odd though as they're pricing up the next few as if he was a non runner.
He seemed to settle ok in his 2yo races and it was a probable combination of freshness and a crawl in the Greenham that caused him to throw his head around a little, he's the Arse of a sprinter but could just be a freak, only thing being that having been set alight once in this fashion will they be able to stop him as well in the future, either way its going to make for a interesting few months ahead. His presence in the Derby betting with the refusal of the Bookmakers to lengthen anything else makes it a virtual no bet race unless you take the 7/2 odd though as they're pricing up the next few as if he was a non runner.
Good post COT of course it can be done some horses are just so good all distances within reason are the same to the.
On the national hunt scene look at Kauto Star. If you didn't know better and you had sen him absolutely destroy QMCC winner Voy Por Ustedes by 7 lengths in the Tingle Creek you'd be locked up for suggesting he'd win 2 Gold Cups.
Frankel like Kuato has a touch of magic, seldom seen, about him and put up a performance yesterday that stunned even his most ardent of fans.
Be a brave man who says he definitely won't get 10f and an even braver man who lays him if he goes for it.
On the national hunt scene look at Kauto Star. If you didn't know better and you had sen him absolutely destroy QMCC winner Voy Por Ustedes by 7 lengths in the Tingle Creek you'd be locked up for suggesting he'd win 2 Gold Cups.
Frankel like Kuato has a touch of magic, seldom seen, about him and put up a performance yesterday that stunned even his most ardent of fans.
Be a brave man who says he definitely won't get 10f and an even braver man who lays him if he goes for it.
My thoughts the following morning.
When watching the race with some fellow punters after 2 furlongs we literally looked at each other and laughed, not quite believing what we were seeing. Initially I thought the two KA runners were aiming at a "pincer movement" from either end of the draw to bring the pacemaker into play. Unfortunately when Queally looked round neither the pacemaker or anything else for that matter was anywhere near. Comments about tearing up Derby vouchers were quickly made and, with hindsight, that was the impression that stuck with me after the race.
I was fully expecting Cecil's post-race interview to immediately put any Derby thoughts to bed. That was clearly not the case.
On further reflection I do not think that Frankel had a hard race. Equally I didn't see him stopping at the end, particularly relevant as the trainer and jockey of Native Khan are now talking enthusiastically about running him in the/a Derby. Admittedly NK came from a fair way back but to my eyes any ground he made up on Frankel in the last 2f, and particularly in the closing uphill section, was minimal.
As far as his possible tendency to drift to the right is concerned I believe that in the closing 2 furlongs at Epsom the course slopes away from the grandstand effectively "throwing" horses towards the far rails i.e. to the left. This will in part at least compensate for any tendency to hang right in the closing stages.
No idea what will happen next. Lets just enjoy it.
When watching the race with some fellow punters after 2 furlongs we literally looked at each other and laughed, not quite believing what we were seeing. Initially I thought the two KA runners were aiming at a "pincer movement" from either end of the draw to bring the pacemaker into play. Unfortunately when Queally looked round neither the pacemaker or anything else for that matter was anywhere near. Comments about tearing up Derby vouchers were quickly made and, with hindsight, that was the impression that stuck with me after the race.
I was fully expecting Cecil's post-race interview to immediately put any Derby thoughts to bed. That was clearly not the case.
On further reflection I do not think that Frankel had a hard race. Equally I didn't see him stopping at the end, particularly relevant as the trainer and jockey of Native Khan are now talking enthusiastically about running him in the/a Derby. Admittedly NK came from a fair way back but to my eyes any ground he made up on Frankel in the last 2f, and particularly in the closing uphill section, was minimal.
As far as his possible tendency to drift to the right is concerned I believe that in the closing 2 furlongs at Epsom the course slopes away from the grandstand effectively "throwing" horses towards the far rails i.e. to the left. This will in part at least compensate for any tendency to hang right in the closing stages.
No idea what will happen next. Lets just enjoy it.
I was at Newmarket yesterday,he was so relaxed before the race just looking at everyone as he walked around.It was an privilege being there yesterday,the procession of a King, it will live long in the memory,my hands were in the air after three furlongs,I turned to my father and said we are seeing something very special,the race was over. The Derby,how can you not let this champion run,even if he pulls when they drop him in, I can not see him being beaten,this is one of the greats.
Frankel has speed and stamina as all the all time greats had .... if he didnt he wouldnt be an all time great.
Sea The Stars most recently, Nijinsky, Nashwan they all had speed and stamina like Frankel. That is what makes them all time greats. Let's not try and make basic arguments that because a horse has speed over a mile staying on past the line he doesnt also have stamina simply because you probably have backed something else in the Derby ... ffs this forum is turning into a playschool.
Sea The Stars most recently, Nijinsky, Nashwan they all had speed and stamina like Frankel. That is what makes them all time greats. Let's not try and make basic arguments that because a horse has speed over a mile staying on past the line he doesnt also have stamina simply because you probably have backed something else in the Derby ... ffs this forum is turning into a playschool.
...and if they decide to go sprinting with him as the Racing Post seem to be clamouring for (no doubt they all backed him antepost Guineas and Derby and know all about the horse ... NOT) please will the last person turn out the lights before the boredom sets in.
He simply has to go to the Derby he is bred for it and gives all indications he will stay, whether it is wise to give him a break on the way if the Dante may come too soon HRAC will know.
He simply has to go to the Derby he is bred for it and gives all indications he will stay, whether it is wise to give him a break on the way if the Dante may come too soon HRAC will know.
But he doesn't "give all indications he will stay", does he? It would be great to see him in the Derby but there's a huge question mark over his stamina for the trip and given the way he was ridden yesterday it won't be an easy job getting him to settle. It's not "turning the forum into a playschool" at all.
The more I read the Racing Post the more I see why these lot dont bet for a living ...sprints ffs yes lets see him mentioned in years to come alongside Sobas, Habibti, Dayjur but also able to win a Guineas ...wonderful dear oh dear.
He wont be ridden like that in a Derby though who in their right mind thinks he would be ...
Really the worst thing about flat racing is all the luvvies who are pretty good at writing bullsh1t articles coming up with theories that are basically rubbish.
If you win a Guineas RIDDEN INTENTIONALLY flat out from the start winning by a second best ever 6 lengths staying on past the line idling in front YOU ARE NOT A SPRINTER. Let's get that total sh1t out of the way first.
Now equally for a horse to be RIDDEN INTENTIONALLY as he was to be able to last the mile idling in front still going on after the line who had previously not been touched with the whip over a mile and who also had previously won the Royal Lodge going further away at the 1 mile finish line on that occassion on slow ground and is bred to get middle distances gives EVERY INDICATION HE WILL STAY GIVEN AN INTENTIONAL MIDDLE DISTANCE RIDE.
This arguing is like Sea The Stars pre Derby when he was only 2nd fav all over again. Thank god Oxx didnt listen to the naysayers or the horse would have just been another Guineas winner instead of an all time great superstar.
Really the worst thing about flat racing is all the luvvies who are pretty good at writing bullsh1t articles coming up with theories that are basically rubbish.
If you win a Guineas RIDDEN INTENTIONALLY flat out from the start winning by a second best ever 6 lengths staying on past the line idling in front YOU ARE NOT A SPRINTER. Let's get that total sh1t out of the way first.
Now equally for a horse to be RIDDEN INTENTIONALLY as he was to be able to last the mile idling in front still going on after the line who had previously not been touched with the whip over a mile and who also had previously won the Royal Lodge going further away at the 1 mile finish line on that occassion on slow ground and is bred to get middle distances gives EVERY INDICATION HE WILL STAY GIVEN AN INTENTIONAL MIDDLE DISTANCE RIDE.
This arguing is like Sea The Stars pre Derby when he was only 2nd fav all over again. Thank god Oxx didnt listen to the naysayers or the horse would have just been another Guineas winner instead of an all time great superstar.
Agree with COT that Frankel is better than STS was at the same stage, actually I'd say that performance yesterday was better than any single performance from STS. The important difference, though, is that STS kept something in reserve and that must've helped him hold his form throughout the season. I tend to agree with Ch4's Jim McGrath's post race comments, that performances like the one Frankel put up yesterday are very difficult to repeat.
Settling Frankel over middle distances will be the best way of preserving his form over the season imo. Having him settle early cruising easily and learn to use his amazing stride late will lead to a lot more mileage from him in Group 1 races than blasting him out over a mile over again as they did yesterday. He can show he has more in reserve if not RIDDEN INTENTIONALLY as he was yesterday.
Do you not think a clock busting effort (allowing for conditions) like that might've taken something out of the horse, regardless of whether he will stay or not?
No Dante by the sound of it, think it may depend on how WD does in his trial
It could have. The people who think he may not settle over middle distances dont seem to be asking themselves the same question over a mile? Why is this it couldnt be their bets could it? Presumably there is an equal chance of that happening him not settling early in a mile race if ridden to last the season according to these naysayers.
The fact is he wont be winning races throughout the season ridden like that over any trip (spare me the sprint rubbish though), he has to be taught to settle anyway which I am sure he can do at any trip he will be going over. Middle distances will take less out of him imo his stride will eat the ground in nowhere near top gear as the others struggle before he is unleashed.
The fact is he wont be winning races throughout the season ridden like that over any trip (spare me the sprint rubbish though), he has to be taught to settle anyway which I am sure he can do at any trip he will be going over. Middle distances will take less out of him imo his stride will eat the ground in nowhere near top gear as the others struggle before he is unleashed.
The Dante did look unlikely to be fair think they will go straight there. World Domination could win a weak Lingfield Derby trial as Bullet Train did it wont mean he is out of the ordinary like Frankel who will win the race if ridden for a middle distance.
Also taking on his own age group will be much easier and the Derby carry a lot more prestige than a second to Goldikova or Canford Cliffs down the line. I honestly believe he can win the Derby even if he didnt settle well though I think he will as the Royal Lodge and Greenham show he can settle in ok.
Just trying to get inside Henrys brain, it may be worth trying to hit the back button for Frankel a furlong out if WD looks like he's in trouble in his trial
I always thought he was a Derby horse after his debut. He had no problem at all getting the mile in soft ground, obviously at a lower level but it was a fair time for a debut. Also the fact that Cecil pitched him in at a mile on soft ground straight away convinced me stamina wasn't an issue. My confidence in him started to wane after seeing him at Ascot and Newmarket, 2yos that fast more often than not, don't train on. He proved me wrong in devastating style yesterday.
I don't have a great deal of interest in pedigrees as it's too much of a grey area for me, but I agree with the much maligned Nick Mordin, that a horse's stamina limitations can often be as much influenced by how they're trained and ridden as how they're bred. That was an extraordinary way to ride a horse if stepping him up to a mile and a half was the next consideration. Switching him off after that might prove extremely difficult. Personally though I'd be more worried that he will need a decent break after yesterday.
I don't have a great deal of interest in pedigrees as it's too much of a grey area for me, but I agree with the much maligned Nick Mordin, that a horse's stamina limitations can often be as much influenced by how they're trained and ridden as how they're bred. That was an extraordinary way to ride a horse if stepping him up to a mile and a half was the next consideration. Switching him off after that might prove extremely difficult. Personally though I'd be more worried that he will need a decent break after yesterday.
"I wouldn't personally back him for the Derby." says Henry Cecil
To be honest I think HRAC is going to chicken out of the Derby and this horse will go down as a 'what could have been'. He doesnt have the nads of Oxx.
Never mind I just lost most interest in him the St James Palace doesnt register on my scale of races for all time greats.
Hope others who have now lost the sentimentality re HRAC having an all time great colt had anticipated this could happen and have built a book around him.
Carlton House is now my fancy for the Derby which has a strong chance of being without Frankel imo.
Never mind I just lost most interest in him the St James Palace doesnt register on my scale of races for all time greats.
Hope others who have now lost the sentimentality re HRAC having an all time great colt had anticipated this could happen and have built a book around him.
Carlton House is now my fancy for the Derby which has a strong chance of being without Frankel imo.
"I think the Dante is unlikely. He's not definitely not (going to run), but it's not my first thought.
"The two options are he'll either go for the St James's Palace or the Derby.
"There's no point guessing and we want to get it right, but people who want to back him for the Derby want to sit, because he's not definitely going to be a Derby runner.
"We haven't decided and nothing has been confirmed yet, but I wouldn't personally back him for the Derby."
"The two options are he'll either go for the St James's Palace or the Derby.
"There's no point guessing and we want to get it right, but people who want to back him for the Derby want to sit, because he's not definitely going to be a Derby runner.
"We haven't decided and nothing has been confirmed yet, but I wouldn't personally back him for the Derby."
Eric - as I said well before the Guineas and again straight afterwards - I want him to go to Epsom simply for the thrill of it. He may do a Slip Anchor / Shergar - or he might do a Mister Baileys, either way I can't wait to see it
.
But, even with HRAC himself expressing doubts, you keep accussing peeples opinions of being influenced by what they have backed for the Derby or that they must have layed Frankel for it - I haven't seen any of that myself. Indeed many Frankel Derby backers are the ones saying they think he won't stay or shouldn't turn up.
I am on your side and hope he goes straight to Epsom - and personally I'm pretty sure he will (I'd take evens that he shows up), but please stop bad mouthing other posters just because they express a different opinion.
.But, even with HRAC himself expressing doubts, you keep accussing peeples opinions of being influenced by what they have backed for the Derby or that they must have layed Frankel for it - I haven't seen any of that myself. Indeed many Frankel Derby backers are the ones saying they think he won't stay or shouldn't turn up.
I am on your side and hope he goes straight to Epsom - and personally I'm pretty sure he will (I'd take evens that he shows up), but please stop bad mouthing other posters just because they express a different opinion.
I already said earlier HRAC has a history of keeping his best colts to either a mile or middle distances but not both. If that is your definition of badmouthing because I am saying he is chickening out then fair enough. Bad mouthing to me is telling you that you are a useless tw@t.
"Chickening out"...lacking "nads".
Badmouthing in my book.
Badmouthing in my book.
Is that all you have to say. I dont kiss @ss I tell it as it is even though HRAC is my fav trainer. He will be lacking a great mile/middle-distance horse to his cv when he retires ... and it wont be because he didnt have the ammo if this pans out as I expect. It isnt financial as I have Carlton House for as much ... the great man will stick to his old ways perhaps.
Mr Cecil will do the right thing and keep Frankel to a mile(maybe ten) in the Juddmonte
oh eric, if only you'd listened to me sooner[;)]
ul
ul
14/1 Frankel on Betfair now...Looks like its Ascot
That interview on RUK was pretty conclusive. Probably won't even wait to see how WD runs.
Eric Morris - "He will be lacking a great mile/middle-distance horse to his cv when he retires"
Sorry but your talking bollox here ;-)
Sorry but your talking bollox here ;-)
i told you eric he was 10s to run at epsom let alone win there but you would not believe me.
secretgambler obviously I mean colt if you'd read my earlier posts. I have several in the race for 5 figures preparing in case this happened dont worry about that mugs was hoping HRAC would let the horse do the talking as he has been saying. Appears the horse could now be gagged from doing the talking in the greatest race in the world.
He has had plenty of quality middle distance colts, Reference Point, Slip Anchor, Commander In Chief to name just three and plenty others. I can totally understand Cecil's decision if they do bypass Epsom...we don't always get what we would like to see in this game but he has to think what's best for the horse and not what the public may want and I totally respect his decision 100% as he is the Champion trainer and the best positioned to take advantage. What are the 'several' you have for 5 figures then? I assume it will be all the horses at the head of the market but at much bigger odds than their current odds lol.
Don't worry lads. Eric has backed anything with a chance at three figure odds. He never loses. Always gets it right.What a guy.
Probably World Domination, Carlton House and three others, one of which will be revealed at around 4.30 on the 4th of June...
Eric's book (imo)
Frankel 30k at 16/1
Carlton House 5k @ 16/1
World Domination 10k @ 20/1
Seville 7k @ 20/1
Casamento 4k @ 16/1
Still sitting pretty...
Frankel 30k at 16/1
Carlton House 5k @ 16/1
World Domination 10k @ 20/1
Seville 7k @ 20/1
Casamento 4k @ 16/1
Still sitting pretty...
Oops, forgot about that unraced one,zil. Always best to have some "cover" in case they supplement. 
These Danish unexposed sorts can be anything they want them to be
Brief apologies for the (.) dot.
So opposing camps as regards his prospects of a Derby run. I've him backed.
Does he do as I and other say does he do a "Slip Anchor" or a Shergar and simply 'run away' from the pack, he's capable of doing it.
If Cecil does run, he'll win Epsom, that I've no doubt.
Price in here is mad, he was 12s when I looked earlier.
Bookies offering 6/4, I've looked and that's ante-post, no refunds if he doesnt run.
So 6/4 and up to 10s in here if you want to back him.
So opposing camps as regards his prospects of a Derby run. I've him backed.
Does he do as I and other say does he do a "Slip Anchor" or a Shergar and simply 'run away' from the pack, he's capable of doing it.
If Cecil does run, he'll win Epsom, that I've no doubt.
Price in here is mad, he was 12s when I looked earlier.
Bookies offering 6/4, I've looked and that's ante-post, no refunds if he doesnt run.
So 6/4 and up to 10s in here if you want to back him.
Eric has, and I quote, ''built his Derby book around Frankel''.
He has also saved on Recital, World Domination & Carlton House.
All posted here.
So were only 1st May and he's got 4 horses covered already whilst all the other mugs excercise patience.
He has also saved on Recital, World Domination & Carlton House.
All posted here.
So were only 1st May and he's got 4 horses covered already whilst all the other mugs excercise patience.
Yeah 6/4 'with a run' but why take that when he's about 10s in here?
I can't wait to see him run again, he annihilated some top class horses yesterday. It's going to take a very special horse to beat him at any distance.
town...did you see the ruk interview today....all but said he wont run...hence the price...i have him backed also...but looks a nonner.
I have 150 @33/1 and 100@25's - but the bird has flown - St James Place is the next Port of Call IMO.... ah well.....
Cecil, wont be able to turn down a chance of derby glory.Once world domination is show to be nothing special they will run Frankel in the derby. This horse will get 1 1/4 mile standing on its head. His class will see him through to victory. All is not lost Frankel, derby fans.
Carlton House will put world domination in his place and become the 5/2 fav for the derby.
Carlton House will put world domination in his place and become the 5/2 fav for the derby.
Is it time for me to hop aboard the St James Palace Stakes bandwagon? Choo choo.
He'll take in the Irish 2000 Guineas on 21st May followed by the St James Palace Stakes on 14th June. The spacing is perfect.
World Domination - talk of a setback. Not what you want only a week or so before his big Derby trial and he is so inexperienced. If things don't work out with WD, surely they won't be able to resist running Frankel at Epsom.
We already know he will be unbeatable over a mile. The narrative of the Flat season is all about seeing how he gets on at Epsom.
We already know he will be unbeatable over a mile. The narrative of the Flat season is all about seeing how he gets on at Epsom.
The way Frankel ran on Saturday he does not look a Derby horse. Nothing would live with him in the July Cup! He wouldn't have beaten Dubawi Gold over another two furlongs let alone half a mile, regardless of Cecil saying he was waiting for the others to catch up. That sounded like hyperbole but you can forgive him for being caught up in the moment after such a magnificent performance.
Frankel will next run at Royal Ascot after Henry Cecil said that the remarkable 2000 Guineas winner would not line up in the Investec Derby.
Cecil will resist the temptation to step the unbeaten colt up to a mile and a half at Epsom, instead focussing on the St James's Palace Stakes over a mile.
The Warren Place handler told the Daily Mail: "I think the Derby would not be doing the right thing.
"I'd want to give him a race before Epsom over a bit further but I can't do that.
"Frankel is very well, but we will take it step by step.
"You have to think of the horse and we don't want to be experimenting with him.
"At the moment, he is telling me not to go a mile and a half and the Prince (Khalid Abdullah, owner) agrees.
"All being well, we'll go to Ascot and then go from there."
Cecil will resist the temptation to step the unbeaten colt up to a mile and a half at Epsom, instead focussing on the St James's Palace Stakes over a mile.
The Warren Place handler told the Daily Mail: "I think the Derby would not be doing the right thing.
"I'd want to give him a race before Epsom over a bit further but I can't do that.
"Frankel is very well, but we will take it step by step.
"You have to think of the horse and we don't want to be experimenting with him.
"At the moment, he is telling me not to go a mile and a half and the Prince (Khalid Abdullah, owner) agrees.
"All being well, we'll go to Ascot and then go from there."
It's a pretty minor setback, Johnny. Missing one piece of work almost a fortnight before the race which is only a trial anyway. I get the impression they're not that concerned about it.
I got 20/1 Frankel for the Derby after Doncaster. I'd obviously love to see him at Epsom but it ain't going to happen.
I got 20/1 Frankel for the Derby after Doncaster. I'd obviously love to see him at Epsom but it ain't going to happen.
Wolrd Comination is race fit anyway as he has raced and won this season, so missing 1 piece of work is not as bad as a horse making his seasonal debut.
Why is this story not being reported on the RP website!?
Domination still on course despite setback
By Graham Dench and dAVID BAXTER 6:31PM 2 MAY 2011
LEADING Investec Derby contender World Domination missed work at the weekend owing to a bruised foot, but he remains on course for the Totesport Dante Stakes at York on May 12.
RELATED LINKS
* Dante card
* Derby card
* Derby betting
* Eclipse card
* Eclipse betting
* King George betting
* Oaks card
* Oaks betting
* Free bets
The Henry Cecil-trained colt has won only a Newbury maiden, yet is so well regarded that he is now in to 4-1 favourite in some lists for the Derby following news that stablemate Frankel is more likely to be aimed at the St James's Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot.
Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to owner-breeder Khalid Abdullah, said on Monday: "He was found to have a bruised foot at the weekend and missed one day's work.
"We didn't want anyone thinking we were hiding something major - it is just a bruised foot and he's sound now - but there's a lot of interest in the horse and we want to be as open as we can.
"He will work again when he needs to and we'll get on with it, but he will obviously be a little bit short going into the Dante. We still have the Derby in mind and expect him to come on a good deal for the race."
From RP Websight
By Graham Dench and dAVID BAXTER 6:31PM 2 MAY 2011
LEADING Investec Derby contender World Domination missed work at the weekend owing to a bruised foot, but he remains on course for the Totesport Dante Stakes at York on May 12.
RELATED LINKS
* Dante card
* Derby card
* Derby betting
* Eclipse card
* Eclipse betting
* King George betting
* Oaks card
* Oaks betting
* Free bets
The Henry Cecil-trained colt has won only a Newbury maiden, yet is so well regarded that he is now in to 4-1 favourite in some lists for the Derby following news that stablemate Frankel is more likely to be aimed at the St James's Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot.
Teddy Grimthorpe, racing manager to owner-breeder Khalid Abdullah, said on Monday: "He was found to have a bruised foot at the weekend and missed one day's work.
"We didn't want anyone thinking we were hiding something major - it is just a bruised foot and he's sound now - but there's a lot of interest in the horse and we want to be as open as we can.
"He will work again when he needs to and we'll get on with it, but he will obviously be a little bit short going into the Dante. We still have the Derby in mind and expect him to come on a good deal for the race."
From RP Websight
Even the "stud vale" fixated Coolmore operation have taken the chance and run their doubtful stayers in the Derby.
A hammer blow for the race.
A hammer blow for the race.
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
Add contact | Send message
When: 30 Apr 11 15:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,056 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Here come the luvvies again ... Francombe sweating between the legs blah blah he sounded disappointed he has been proven wrong on the horse.
He is an all time great the 2/1 the Derby is an amazing price with a Greenham ride. Queally let his nerves get to him there imo. With a Greenham ride this horse wins the Derby head in chest. The Dante he will scare them off nothing beats him he is way too good.
Anyone know if this is still available anywhere?
Add contact | Send message
When: 30 Apr 11 15:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,056 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Here come the luvvies again ... Francombe sweating between the legs blah blah he sounded disappointed he has been proven wrong on the horse.
He is an all time great the 2/1 the Derby is an amazing price with a Greenham ride. Queally let his nerves get to him there imo. With a Greenham ride this horse wins the Derby head in chest. The Dante he will scare them off nothing beats him he is way too good.
Anyone know if this is still available anywhere?
clueless mong! the annoying thing is that he doesnt even bet!too bad he didnt do his fooking conkers and he might have fooked off!
he hasnt exactly said no you know.
just the horse might need a break before Ascot.
everychance if the race cut up badly and the ground was decent he would run.
just the horse might need a break before Ascot.
everychance if the race cut up badly and the ground was decent he would run.
Frankel running in Derby NAP
Not A Prayer.
Under no circumstances whatsoever.
Not A Prayer.
Under no circumstances whatsoever.
Henry - you are giving them a free Derby - when FRANKEL would sluice up against a rubbish bunch
Agree with mike Frankel would destroy these in the Derby however I will still win k's on this race as stated previously.
I am still the best, please take note mayweather.
eric_morris
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
Add contact | Send message When: 01 May 11 12:09 Joined: Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 3,075 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
To be honest I think HRAC is going to chicken out of the Derby and this horse will go down as a 'what could have been'. He doesnt have the nads of Oxx.
Never mind I just lost most interest in him the St James Palace doesnt register on my scale of races for all time greats.
Hope others who have now lost the sentimentality re HRAC having an all time great colt had anticipated this could happen and have built a book around him.
Carlton House is now my fancy for the Derby which has a strong chance of being without Frankel imo.
I am still the best, please take note mayweather.
eric_morris
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
Add contact | Send message When: 01 May 11 12:09 Joined: Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 3,075 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
To be honest I think HRAC is going to chicken out of the Derby and this horse will go down as a 'what could have been'. He doesnt have the nads of Oxx.
Never mind I just lost most interest in him the St James Palace doesnt register on my scale of races for all time greats.
Hope others who have now lost the sentimentality re HRAC having an all time great colt had anticipated this could happen and have built a book around him.
Carlton House is now my fancy for the Derby which has a strong chance of being without Frankel imo.
eric_morris
12 May 11 14:53
I am still the best, please take note mayweather.
Isn't talking to yourself the first sign of madness
12 May 11 14:53
I am still the best, please take note mayweather.
Isn't talking to yourself the first sign of madness
I am not Mayweather, however I have to commend his attempts to remove half the forums heads from their own backsides re their antepost frailties, impossible task though this may be.
Uncle, it is a gay ploy. Eric thinks he can fool people into believing he is not Mayweather. Fact is they both couldn't tip sh1t from a bucket and are mentally deranged.
Shortening all the time on here, will there be a change of plan now there looks to be only Carlton House and Recital to beat? Frankel wins the Derby if he turns up after a nice break.
Shortening all the time on here, will there be a change of plan now there looks to be only Carlton House and Recital to beat?
Yep he was around 25/26.0 yesterday & hes plummeted down to 24.0 clearly Henrys given the nod & somebodys had a fiver on.
Pack the game in Eric if you seriously believe Frankel will run in the Derby.
IT WILL NOT HAPPEN
told you after the guineas he would not run in Dante despite your misguided thoughts he would.
told you world domination would run in the Dante
told you Frankel wont run in the Derby.
2 out of 3 with the biggest certainty still to happen
Frankel is a potential all time great .Henry aint going to buggger him up by running over a trip out of his optimum range.Cant you see that?
Yep he was around 25/26.0 yesterday & hes plummeted down to 24.0 clearly Henrys given the nod & somebodys had a fiver on.
Pack the game in Eric if you seriously believe Frankel will run in the Derby.
IT WILL NOT HAPPEN
told you after the guineas he would not run in Dante despite your misguided thoughts he would.
told you world domination would run in the Dante
told you Frankel wont run in the Derby.
2 out of 3 with the biggest certainty still to happen
Frankel is a potential all time great .Henry aint going to buggger him up by running over a trip out of his optimum range.Cant you see that?
Can understand the layers getting worried over the next 3 weeks, virtually an instant loser for them if he is given the chance to prove his greatness connections must be giving it a lot of thought.
Don't forget to "tweak" your Derby book on the day, YBM/Kirk/Eric.
I wonder how much money Eric has lost this season ? Cant be looking good going on his threads so far. About time he listened to people.
Being hammered in the market now as the £3 @ 24 & £4 @ 23 have been smashed into.
Must have had a trial over 1mile 2 @ home this morning with the 7:34 from Ipswich trailing in his wake.
& work watchers lumping those meaty bets on accordingly.
Must have had a trial over 1mile 2 @ home this morning with the 7:34 from Ipswich trailing in his wake.
& work watchers lumping those meaty bets on accordingly.
I wonder how much money Eric has lost this season ? Cant be looking good going on his threads so far. About time he listened to people.
He took a massive hammering in both Guineas - and with Frankel out of Epsom his Derby book is in tatters too.
He took a massive hammering in both Guineas - and with Frankel out of Epsom his Derby book is in tatters too.
I've actually tried being civil to him in the past AT. Everytime you get abuse and lies from the fella though.
A_T...he did not take a "massive hammering" in the 1000 Guineas. That is an outrageous slur. Although his "total stake" going into the race was "5k" without a mention of Blue Bunting, YBM/Kirk/Eric "tweaked" his "book" and the reason he made a "636 loss" - peanuts as far as he is concerned, I'm sure - is because he "messed up" his "account funds". Otherwise, he "would have been level". Oh, ye of little faith.
Tweaking one's book is a latter-day version of a "late cover" but the principle is the same: the man is a betting genius.
Tweaking one's book is a latter-day version of a "late cover" but the principle is the same: the man is a betting genius.
Oh buggur forgot they could still supplement & im in up to me neck laying him.
Maybe Eric/Kirk/Ybm will be on the blower to price Khaled advising him of this unique strategy of taking him out & then supplementing.
Anyone recall last derby winner to be taken out then supplemented?
Maybe Eric/Kirk/Ybm will be on the blower to price Khaled advising him of this unique strategy of taking him out & then supplementing.
Anyone recall last derby winner to be taken out then supplemented?
KRIS KIN had crept into the Derby consciousness late, having been re-entered at the supplementary stage following his surprise win in the Dee Stak
R.Post
R.Post
eric_morris
05 Mar 11 07:35
Joined:
27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,507 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Really want Frankel to be an all-time great for HRAC to be remembered by. But to become an all-time great he has to go Derby.
He is bred for it and he got a trip already last season pulling the jockeys arms out at the mile pole as a 2yo. Will be really disappointed if they miss the Derby as then he drops into the category of v good Guineas winner and horse at a mile and just above ... and we have had tons of them over the years HRAC wont be remembered any more for that. Will we remember HRAC for Reference Point or Frankel in years to come ... he deserves an all-time great
05 Mar 11 07:35
Joined:
27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,507 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Really want Frankel to be an all-time great for HRAC to be remembered by. But to become an all-time great he has to go Derby.
He is bred for it and he got a trip already last season pulling the jockeys arms out at the mile pole as a 2yo. Will be really disappointed if they miss the Derby as then he drops into the category of v good Guineas winner and horse at a mile and just above ... and we have had tons of them over the years HRAC wont be remembered any more for that. Will we remember HRAC for Reference Point or Frankel in years to come ... he deserves an all-time great
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
Add contact | Send message
When: 30 Apr 11 15:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,056 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Here come the luvvies again ... Francombe sweating between the legs blah blah he sounded disappointed he has been proven wrong on the horse.
He is an all time great the 2/1 the Derby is an amazing price with a Greenham ride. Queally let his nerves get to him there imo. With a Greenham ride this horse wins the Derby head in chest. The Dante he will scare them off nothing beats him he is way too good.
WHAT A MUG
Add contact | Send message
When: 30 Apr 11 15:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,056 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Here come the luvvies again ... Francombe sweating between the legs blah blah he sounded disappointed he has been proven wrong on the horse.
He is an all time great the 2/1 the Derby is an amazing price with a Greenham ride. Queally let his nerves get to him there imo. With a Greenham ride this horse wins the Derby head in chest. The Dante he will scare them off nothing beats him he is way too good.
WHAT A MUG
eric_morris
01 May 11 12:50
Joined:
27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,509 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Is that all you have to say. I dont kiss @ss I tell it as it is even though HRAC is my fav trainer. He will be lacking a great mile/middle-distance horse to his cv when he retires ... and it wont be because he didnt have the ammo if this pans out as I expect. It isnt financial as I have Carlton House for as much ... the great man will stick to his old ways perhaps.
backs every horse and still misses the winner
01 May 11 12:50
Joined:
27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 3,509 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Is that all you have to say. I dont kiss @ss I tell it as it is even though HRAC is my fav trainer. He will be lacking a great mile/middle-distance horse to his cv when he retires ... and it wont be because he didnt have the ammo if this pans out as I expect. It isnt financial as I have Carlton House for as much ... the great man will stick to his old ways perhaps.
backs every horse and still misses the winner
................................,-~*`¯lllllll`*~,............................. .....
...........................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,..........................................
......................,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,......................................
..................,-*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\... ..................................
................;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\....................................
................\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/...........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,................................
.................\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*.............`~-~-,...(.(¯`*,`,...............................
...................\llllllllllll,-~*........................)_-\..*`*;..)..............................
.....................\,-*`¯,*`)............,-~*`~................../...............................
.....................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;.................../.\..............................
.................../.../..../..../..,-,..*~,.`*~*..................*...\.......................... ...
...................|.../.../..../.*`...\................................)....)¯`~,........... .........
...................|./..../..../........).........)`*~-,............../.....|..)...`~-,..............
.................././.../....,*`-,.....`-,....*`....,---......\...../...../..|..........¯```*~-,,,,
.................(............)`*~-,.....`*`.,-~*.,-*.......|.../..../..../...............\..........
..................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*.............|.,*...,*....|.................\.........
......................*,.........`-,....)-,..................,-*`...,-*.....(`-,..............\........
........................f`-,........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*.....,-*......|....`-,...............\.......
...........................,-~*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll¯`*-,..........................................
......................,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,......................................
..................,-*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.\... ..................................
................;*`lllllllllllllllllllllllllll,-~*~-,llllllllllllllllllll\....................................
................\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/...........\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,................................
.................\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*.............`~-~-,...(.(¯`*,`,...............................
...................\llllllllllll,-~*........................)_-\..*`*;..)..............................
.....................\,-*`¯,*`)............,-~*`~................../...............................
.....................|/.../.../~,......-~*,-~*`;.................../.\..............................
.................../.../..../..../..,-,..*~,.`*~*..................*...\.......................... ...
...................|.../.../..../.*`...\................................)....)¯`~,........... .........
...................|./..../..../........).........)`*~-,............../.....|..)...`~-,..............
.................././.../....,*`-,.....`-,....*`....,---......\...../...../..|..........¯```*~-,,,,
.................(............)`*~-,.....`*`.,-~*.,-*.......|.../..../..../...............\..........
..................*-,.......`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*.............|.,*...,*....|.................\.........
......................*,.........`-,....)-,..................,-*`...,-*.....(`-,..............\........
........................f`-,........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*.....,-*......|....`-,...............\.......
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539