FURY

Just taken a bit of 33 s

Not a bad price!!!

Looks a proper horse

Good performance, but enthusiasm is tempered somewhat by the proximity in second of Pisco Sour, who had won a nursery off an official mark of 76.  The third Formosina is a smart colt, but he threw away his chance with a slow start and has never run on soft ground before.  Fury is clearly a smart horse in the making but has a lot of ground to make up on the leading Guineas contenders.

According to the RP: "He looks sure to build on this again and was quoted at 33-1 for the 2,000 Guineas in some places, although the trainer gave the impression he thought he might be more of a Jersey Stakes horse."

Point taken James p, and I am no flat expert by any means but he looked to me the type that is very adaptable and he won with a substantial amount in hand.  Whether it was the ground or inexperience (perhaps a combination) that made him run around a bit in the closing stages, I don't know. But he looks to have significant improvement in him and I think he just might be one who will need to be tested numerous times before he finds one better.

I give a rating of 105 with a big Timeform P

Only got to find a stone with the market leaders
Not undueable
33 s is a fair price

Raced up the rail .. surely has to be marked down a bit given it was favoured threre all meeting ..

ttt

I think this horse is where the value lies. Some of those below him in the betting look pure 2yos, whereas with Fury it looks like the best is yet to come imo. It's impossible to know whether a horse will improve from 2 to 3 but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him improve a stone +. Of course he'll need to if he's going to trouble Frankel but there's always the possibility that a precocious colt like that will struggle to maintain its form at 3.

Bit of movement here
Anyone got any news?

I had gotten a bit trigger happy with this fellow myself, so much so that i even have him as my profile pic here. One thing that intrigued me about him is that in his two races he always looked the winner from the get go. I would definitely agree he had the run of the race at hq tho.

"He couldn't have been more impressive at Newmarket and I think Kieren (Fallon) was quite taken with him," said Cheveley's managing director Chris Richardson.

"I saw him the other week, he looked really well and appears to have thrived through the winter.

"The Free Handicap will be considered as his first run of the season and we'll see how we go.

The Free Handicap might not be the usual route to Guineas glory these days but I've never subscribed to all the "trends" stuff.

Needs to win or run well in a decent trial before the Guineas though, Figgis, don't you think? On speed figures I have him exactly a stone below Frankel but with 'two races in hand' as it were. I think the biggest improvements that precocious horses make tend to be between starts 1 and 2 and 2 and 3, or perhaps 3 and 4. After their fourth start I reckon most of them have reached their 3yo peak. That'll probably be derided as a sweeping generalisation, and in fairness, it sounds a bit like one!

Yeah, Howellsy, if he's fit then he'd have to win the Free Handicap and win it well, especially as he has no penalty. I have him even further behind Frankel than you, 18lbs, but I've seen many horses improve around 20lbs from 2 to 3 and I'm hoping he's one of them, I was very taken with him last year. Equally, I've seen many precocious types like Frankel not improve a pound from 2 to 3 and a lot of them even went backwards.

Forget Frankel and back Fury? err!! no thanks I'll pass.

Only danger to Frankel if there even is one has got to be Wooten Bassett.

He was kept away from the Frankel's and Dream Ahead's last season, not because Richard fahey thought he wasn't good enough but he saw an opportuinity to clean up in another shpere. And didn't he do just that.

In a normal year I'd be all over Wooten basset like a rash but this Frankel is so good he may well turn out to be the best since Sea Bird II himself.

To be frank Fury wouldn't get within half a furlong of him in the Guineas and if I were you, no offense meant, I'd buy a bottle or even a crate of champers to celebrate not losing your goolies on a horse who wouldn't win the guineas if he set of now.

Of course, nothing much changes between October and the following May for a 2-3yo does it? I'm sure eunuch-dom would beckon if I was in the habit of backing even money shots that have not run for 6 months, whereas at Fury's price of around 33/1, if he doesn't place, I would only lose 1 hair off my goolies.

I'm a Fury backer for a while now and am delighted to see that he's even being aimed at the race

"CERT ALERT" Wealth warning, Short priced Ante Post Guineas favs can seriously damage your wallet, Use sensibly...

Roll of Dishonour

Apalachee
Grundy
The Minstrel
Try My Best
Tromos
Monteverdi
Storm Bird
Gorytus
Adjal
Warning
Machivellian
Celtic Swing
Xaar
Hawk Wing
Teofilo
New Approach


Im sure i could find more......

Agree Figgis.

Worse 33/1 out there.

Haggas is in Dubai at the moment,fwiw.

Dubawi , Zilzal. Shocking price he was.

I was living in Greece from 2003-2007, so cant remember the Ante Post prices that well

And St Nic only last year.

Yes it does give you some concern

To that list below I can add Kris and Diesis, both short priced Guineas favourites and both trained like Frankel by Henry.

I actually say Kris win a 2yo race at York one autumn, he was just a stunning looker, a strong chestnut. I actually still don't know how he got beaten by Tap On Wood.

Anyway there is no fool like an old fool and after all those beaten short priced favourites, I still think Frankel is a dead cert if turning up. Like all dead certs he seems to have the lot, power, amazing speed, plenty of stamina, a decent temperament, the best form and he is trained by the greatest.

Frankel isn't Diesis nor is he Kris, Warning etc etc. What they did has not one thing to do with  Frankel.

I don't think people quite realize what we have here.

If you get the chance to ask someone who does sectionals as how he compared to the likes of Canford Cliffs and Poets Voice over the last 2 1/1 furlong of his race at Sandown. Keep in mind he was racing alone the other 2 were both flat to the boards yet his time was almost identical to Canford Cliff's and faster than Poet's Voice. So I'm told.

Some ask has he trained on? but he would have won most Guineas had he ran in them as 2yo let alone a 3yo that's how good this fellow is, trust me!.

Who renamed Ascot to Sandown? Wasn't me

Rondetto,
Firstly, I don't think you can look at the final fractions in isolation. The royal Lodge was run at a crawl. A top class horse will be able to run very fast final fractions as they have not expended much energy in cruising for the first 4-5 furlongs etc.

Secondly, I think horses tend to slow down under extreme pressure from rivals close home. The situation most conducive for a horse to run a fast final fraction is 1. slow early pace, 2. no rivals pestering him. In my opinion, based on my speed figures, Frankel ran the same time figure at Doncaster and in the Dewhurst. Does that mean he didn't improve? Not necessarily, as he was able to achieve the same figure under pressure from decent rivals in the latter race, having had an easy time of it in the former.

Having said all that, I am not arguing against your underlying point which is that Frankel is an exceptional animal.

Rondetto cant recall Canford running same day as Frankel? Rip Van Winkle?
But as Howellsy stated sectionals @ the latter stage of a race are entirely dependant on pace in the early stages,
You can have top class horses record a very fast overall time however on the same day you can have other (lower class)horses recording faster final sectionals.
With regards to the QE2 Poets Voice appeared to the naked eye to finish very fast down the outside however this was an illusion as the others where slowing dramatically  in comparison.

There is more money to be made by successfully fininding a horse to finish 2nd or 3rd at 3/1 or bigger than backing Frankel at Evens.

No one is denying that Frankel will be very hard to beat.

There is still a big question mark re the Ground for him though which doesn;t seem to get much debate. The ground on Guineas day,Good to Firm, can be like a road, and you often have a drying wind throughout the afternoon.

I have never questioned Frankel's performances on the clock, just the opposite in fact. What some people fail to grasp, however, is that what a 2yo is capable of in October is not always what it is capable of 6 months later. It is also obvious that the more outstanding the 2yo the less room for improvement as a 3yo. People can argue that he doesn't need to improve but in many cases a 3yo that is not going forward will often go backwards. I agree that even if he just replicates his 2yo form he will be hard to beat, he would've had to do a bit more than that to win the last 3 Guineas though, imo.

There is always so much hype about a horse like Frankel there is no kmnowing, but it does seem from Henry has said, that Frankel has grown, matured, strengthened and learned to relax. He does seem very likely to have improved. If he has improved, he is going to quite a tricky blighter to beat this year.

Has there been any information on why Haggas has changed his mind and decided to swerve a trial?

fury unlikely to run in 2000 according to tony norman on t/form radio

200 quid just up trying to back at 48,

fury tipped up in todays racing and football outlook if anyone interested. memory tipped for 1000g.

Cheveley Park Stud, who will be represented by unbeaten Fury in the 2,000 Guineas.

The grey son of Invincible Spirit will need a new jockey with Kieren Fallon, on board in his two wins last term, not sure to have been available even if he had not been suspended.

But trainer William Haggas, who has had three winners from his last five runners, is committed to taking on odds-on favourite Frankel with his 16-1 chance.

He said: 'Fury has taken a while to come to hand but is doing better each week. I don't know if there'll be much opposition to Frankel but I'll be there.'

Precedent for the stable to go straight to the Classic target - Shaamit from modest maiden to go without further trial to win the 1996 Derby.

Looking better day by day

Cheers

Shaamit was a once raced maiden winner ?

I detect a bit of confidence from William Haggas.

You got the value anyway Figgis.

Looking better day by day

i backed fury about a month ago on here at biggish prices thougt the bet was gone, some  good news at last , also got pathfork on side ,laid the fav for a fair few quid ........

Being backed again today!

Yeha

pp taking evasive action

The will he won't he run must be very concerning for those who backed Fury plus the fact Keiren Fallon had no hesitation say he would ride Native Khan. According to our Terry KF reckons he's got a helluva chance and could be the best ew bet of them all. You have to of course ignore the Racing Post where the ground was against him plus the fact that was no more a classic trial than flying in the air.

About the craziest thing anyone could do is lay Frankel unless they have a death punting wish.

Now it's known he's trained on and how superior he is to the rest there seems little sense in backing ew when you can bet place only at odds against or back your fancy without the fav.

I can't believe Frankel is not 1/4 for this, the bookies must be hoping he gets run over by that train he keeps chasing on the gallops

did Fallon confirm he would have chosen Native Khan ahead of Fury then , Rondetto ?

Fury was not even going to run back when Fallon was deciding on Native Khan. Hence, the decision means nothing

I thought they had not decided one way or the other at that point, Keynes.

who will ride?

Johnnie Murtagh has had good connections with trainer and owner?

I dont think so sintonian. There has only been confidence re Fury in the last week or so.

Terry Norman said Murtagh would ride

Rondetto Joined: 20 Jul 10
Replies: 492 26 Apr 11 07:10   

Now it's known he's trained on

How is it known?

i think he was talking about frankel.

So was I

the fact he ran the last 5 furlongs 1 second quicker than any other horse up the newbury straight over the 2 day meet (except the 2nd Excelebration)would suggest he hasnt regressed Figgis.

I don't know whether you can say he's trained on for sure. He beat an 89 rated horse by four lengths in a slowly run race. He didn't need to have improved at all from his two year old rating to do that.

Geoff m, that still doesn't prove he's made any improvement since last year.

top jock on board, all systems go to derail frankel!

Noticed Fallons column this week
Suggesting he wouldnt like FAST ground

May explain drift

He handled it on his debut, albeit obviously at a much lower level, he was backed to handle it too.

dtamutants Joined: 15 Jan 08
Replies: 8 26 Apr 11 15:06   

I don't know whether you can say he's trained on for sure. He beat an 89 rated horse by four lengths in a slowly run race. He didn't need to have improved at all from his two year old rating to do that.

Using the same argument, Fury beat an 85 rated horse 1 and three quarter lengths in his last run if you want to be pedantic about it. 

In the Greenham, there was a further 6 lengths back to a 94 rated animal and a further 7.5 lengths back to a 95 rated horse who came here fit from a run on the all weather. So take Excelebration out of the race and Frankel has pulverised the field in the same way he destroyed similar mid-90 rated horses in the Royal Lodge. And this over a trip which will ultimately prove to be short of his best and when clearly not 100% fit. The way he was finishing at Newbury an extra furlong would have resulted in Frankel comfortably finishing another few lengths clear of the field.

In a nutshell Frankel is in a different class to anything else in the field on Saturday.

all will be revealed on sat what i want to see is how frankel reacts if he gets into a war with something who keeps finding a bit more and they will be going a really fast pace on fast ground ,he may well be good enough but i have seen a lot of so called wonder horses come unstuck ....that said he may well be a differnt class to these but there are a good few to test him .....fury,saamid ,rod o conn. pathfork ,native khan ect, for me frankel is a lay at the prices

My only point was that from the Greenham it's not at all obvious that Frankel has improved. He was entitled to win like he did on his two year old form. I agree that he couldn't have done much more and I think that he's by far the most likely winner but the point is that Pathfork, Roderic etc could have improved much more than him. These horses are 30% older than when we last saw them, and there is never more potential to improve than from two to three. I think he'll probably win, but anyone taking 1/2 about him is mad imo.

Well said dtamutants! Agreed.

Just like Excellebration is entitled to have improved in fairness. He did win his last two starts afterall and the trainer put him in the race because he felt he had a chance. I'd not use the Excellebration as a reason to crab Frankel imo.

Yeah that's true, Excelebration has improved, but a weak group 3 is probably still the peak of his ability. And that form isn't Guineas form. Still, Frankel did what he needed to do, and did it nicely, but I thought the price cuts were an overreaction.

Back to Fury though, I don't really get how he's generally the same price as Casamento. Fair enough that Casamento hasn't been trained for the race, but he won a good group 1 and group 2 as a 2yo, and finished second a head to the 2nd fav, and Fury's form is nowhere near that good. On top of that, Al Zarooni is in great form, and atm I'd say Casamento e/w is by far the best value in the race.

You'd wouldn't want him to show that he's improved in the Greenham. That would mean being primed for that particular race. You want him to show that he's still capable of improving, and that a big performance is just around the corner.

"Fury injured a foot a five weeks ago and because of the setback I was not able to run him in the Free Handicap. I have been pretty low key about his chances in the Guineas but he is as good as I can get him and I am really happy with him. My one fear is that last year Fury came on such a lot after his first race and the fact he missed his trial race could possibly cost me the Guineas, although Frankel clearly has a really outstanding chance on what we have seen. I booked Johnny Murtagh for the Guineas quite a while ago but it was only earlier this week he confirmed his availability with the Aga Khan, who now retains him. not having a runner. There's nothing wrong with Fury's jockey or the horse.... probably only the trainer!"   

Looking better by the day

I agree and now backed him w/o Frankel.

expecting a big run, cant wait!

Great last line of the quote there madhu! haggas never been one to overplay his hand, and i liked the sales race win a lot - he had nothing to run against when he made his ground up and most invincible spirits would be better off on a quicker surface. The sort of unexposed group horse you probably want on side in a race like the guineas i think.

5th - creditable - where next, Jersey stakes @ Ascot ?

Very disappointing though, sint, that he was beaten by Slim Shadey. Taking nothing away from Frankel, the fancied runners behind Native Khan have run appallingly.

Runs tomorrow at Sandown Figgis. I guess if he wins this they may drop back in trip for the Jersey.

Yeah, Sint, looks like he's got a lot on his plate tomorrow, though. He was very disappointing in the Guineas, considering he was supposed to be working well. I know there's an argument that the horses in behind were taken out of their comfort zone by Frankel, but Fury, like most of the others, didn't even attempt to chase him, so I don't accept that as an excuse. Of course, he wouldn't be the first horse to come on a bundle for a Guineas run, as Roderic O'Connor showed last Saturday, but I won't be backing him to do so. His task is even more difficult because he is up against 2 horses I vowed to follow next time, Neebras and Tazahum.

looks quite a good wee race tmrw night.

I backed Fury in the Guineas (w/o Frankel) and thought it was a desperate effort to be beat 20 lengths,
but I thought this about ROC on saturday. They said he didn't act on the ground and it looks like being similar
tomorrow. I said all this about ROC so maybe he'll win- I hope he doesn't.

cant believe that was beat there!!

The Royal Mike Hunt Cup winner? Haggas must be tempted?

But he has the current ap fav. in Green Destiny !

Lost it on the bob.

Yak

What a dog!

He will pop up in a big field handicap/sale race or something at some point...

At Catterick..