Melbourne Cup wights out.

Profound Beauty backers must be happy with that :) ;)

Bauer off 53Kg looks a very interesting prospect indeed

King of Wands is quite interesting for Gosden imo.

8stone4 looks very workable.

Noticed Craig Williams has flown over to Japan to ride Jaguar Mail a couple of times so guess thats his Melbourne Cup ride.

Delta Blues carried a big weight to win this and this fella just might be able to tough it out. Classy enough.

So what do u guys think about SO YOU THINK?

Jaguar Mail/Meiner Kitz not starting.

:o

I've come across several people who reckon So You Think has too much weight.  Personally, I think he has been given a good weight, and has been treated leniently because he has never run beyond 10f - it is just a question of whether he stands up to training, can settle at 2m, and his breathing is okay.

Can't have a bet at that price though.

Is Imposing a likely runner?

He was sold to Lloyd Williams, wasn't he?  Arrives in Australia next week?  Needs to find form and win something to get into the race.  Not quite good enough at the moment.

highly weighted stayers from england usually fail but im very interested in king of wands as a light weight chance.. were hearing no word of who's coming over  and who's not  so i hope he is still being set for the race

I've heard that likely European raiders are Rite of Passage, Profound Beauty, Sans Frontieres, Drunken Sailor, Manighar, Americain and possibly Stanstill plus whatever Godolphin send over. The others have already been ruled out.

Yeah, officially Weld will make a decision about his other two after the Irish St Leger meeting.  He's got all four running there.

Fancy Linton for the cup..Looked a monster of a horse when taking the Alister Clark Stakes earlier in the year..Will watch his come back run on Saturday before having a nibble at him for the big 1..

Standstill on it was. arrives AFL Grand Final Day.
Owned by OTI Racing.
big odds still on offer here

Can't get in, unless there is some nice h'cap on a synthetic surface for him to win.

feint perfume for me

Geelong cup. me2
i would think its goes there

ta ta

ta ta

Stanstill goes for the Mooney Valley or Geelong Cup needing a win to get in

Whats with the move in the market for shocking into 12's cant see him winning it twice..Good comeback run for Linton last night staying on into 3rd..

Shocking won the Makybe Diva this morning, won't get penalised.

http://horseracing.bigpondsport.com/livevideoreplays/tabid/75/meetid/3886/default.aspx

Race 7, Flemington.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but would Profound Beauty or Rite Of Passage receive a penalty for this if they won the Irish Leger?

No.  Penalties only for winning h'caps (of a certain distance?).

Thanks for that Me2.

Winning the Irish St Leger does allow the handicapper to allot a discretionary penalty - he had the option with Septimus a couple of years ago but declined to do so . When Vintage Crop won the Irish Leger at that time there was no penalty clause for the race with the result that VC was well in at the weights and so it proved.That was probably why it was changed to allow a penalty subsequently.

What, so Carpenter can hand out discetionary penalties for victories in WFA races beyond 2300m, but not below??

Why would someone aim Alandi at the Melbourne Cup, needs a longer trip on fast ground and is weighed to the hilt. He could have had a very good season in Europe, now he's prepping in mile races and coming last. The new owners must not know much about how to place him.

Immediate reactions are that Profound Beauty and Linton are well-weighted.

King of Wands may have little experience for the race and could need an end-to-end gallop.

Cumani's horses seem badly-weighted and Weld's much better in.

Purple Moon may be the exception among Cuman's horses but is he as good as he was? If this is his target retaining his ability over shorter distances, he must have a big chance...

King Of Wands and Purple Moon weren't among the first acceptors this week.  This is the full list of horses that were WITHDRAWN:-


Efficient
Jaguar Mail
Mastery
Meiner Kitz
Littorio
Sirmione
Meisho Dontaku
Purple Moon
Golden Sword
Claremont
King Of Wands
Rainbow Peak
Dangerous Midge
Los Cristianos
Kibbutz
Raffaello
The Fuzz
Coniston Bluebird
Grand Ducal
Kutchinsky
Sculptor
Shamoline Warrior
White Pilgrim
Shahwardi
All Time Champion
Ananias
Another Legend
Asso Bello
Baron
Base
Bint Maher
Bolton
By The Way
Checkaboard Lounge
Cheviot Beach
Daad's Overtime
Dancing David
Double Whisky
Dual Hemisphere
Dundrum
Echelon
Elaparado
Eraset
Exalted Ego
Fairygem
Fortuni
Frozone
Fuji Fame
Go With The Flo
Hillstreet
Holloway Castle
Hume
Indite
Interlocking
Ishant
Jungle Rocket
Just A Blaze
Kaleske
Legislature
Leica Falcon
Leica Larrikin
Livia
Look Now
Maestro Of Murano
Martin Place
Martyr
Mateo
Miss Darcey
Moncalieri
Moshav
My Central
Natural High
Nitonic
Oak Heart
Our Destiny
Our Kobi Jade
Our Rockhampton
Pento Diablo
Phantom Agent
Polly's Mark
Red Colossus
Reigning Rhythm
Reprisal
Rowland
Snake Gully
Soaring Dragon
Spacecraft
Stillman (Malibu Bay)
Streetfighter
Sunday Mist
Sunset Cafe
Tarawera
The Miniver Rose
Three Orion
Tobique
Tora Tora Tora
Tullamore
Two For Tea
Vesper
Why Wouldya
Zaman
Zampara
Dubawi's Daughter
Sugar Bush
Try Pickle

Whos your early fancys for the race Me2 you seem pretty clued up when it comes to aus racing..So far im with the two Weld runners and Linton..

I have a rather cowardly tactic Mooono of trying to back the horses that I think will make the final field, so that I don't care who wins!

Only started following the aussie racing a year ago.

Of the Brits, I've changed my mind about Holberg in the past couple of days.  After the September Stakes I was disappointed in his performance, but I think that was mainly because I was watching Laaheb.  He was running on well enough at the end of the race.

Was originally clouded by Luca's opinion that Drunken Sailor was just a 107 rated 1m4f horse.  The thing to bear in mind though is that coming second in a h'cap such as the Northumberland Plate shows improved form.  The horse has been improving all year, which is nice.

Of the aussies, Rebel Raider.  I've rather stupidly made Rebel Raider my main bet for the Caulfield Cup, and he ain't qualified for it yet!   However, the favourite Moudre ain't qualified for it yet either, so I'm not the only silly one.
Here is a video of RR winning the Victoria Derby a couple of years ago, before having a while off with I think a chip removed after kicking his stable or sumfink.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTxJbzueMM
Rather hoping he returns to that kind of form, but was disappointing in the wet last Saturday.

Gai Waterhouse doesn't have rich history with the Melbourne Cup, but she is making a go of it this year with some kiwi imports, mainly Descarado and Herculian Prince.  I'm going along for the ride. .  Descarado was disappointing when he ran a few weeks ago, but reportedly has turned the corner.   Herculian Prince ran a good 3rd in a 7f G3 H'cap last Saturday.
http://horseracing.bigpondsport.com/livevideoreplays/tabid/75/meetid/3886/default.aspx
Randwick, Race 6.
Herculian Prince ain't yet qualified for the Melbourne Cup and needs to do something to (a) qualify and (b) win a race and get a weight penalty to get into the race.


I've rather lost focus in looking for the Melbourne Cup winner, and instead I'm enjoying the spectacle of high class horses running each Saturday for the next two months.

Sorry, misinformation.

Moudre passed the first qualifying cluase for the Caulfield Cup on 28th August.  I reported it elsewhere at the time.

I had better clarify that a bit more.  Although Moudre has passed the first hurdle for the Caulfield cup, he is unlikely to get into the race because of his light weight.  That is why they are trying to win the Naturalism Stakes to get exempt status, and that was why I was thinking in my mind that he wasn't qualified.

Yea good write up..I backed that Drunken Sailor a few Saturdays back looks a horse on the upgrade..Ive been watching the Aus racing for a few years now in the early hours on ATR but only have a bet on the big meetings..The Melbourne Cup is 1 of my fav races of the year love the build up and has been a lucky race for me in the past..

Also just read Rite Of Passage is set to miss the Irish St Ledger after failing to please Weld in a gallop..So he wont be getting no Penalty for winning that now.

One thing I'd like to comment on are the fillies and mares.  I know they have put up impressive performances, but I'm surprised by how short they are in the market, and it has been consistent.  26 Dariana, 25 Faint Perfume, 32 Jessicabeel.  It was the same thing last year with Daffodil.  I wonder whether some people are looking for the next Makybe Diva, and that is influencing the prices?

Just to clarify precisely the penalty rules : any handicap winner at 1600m and longer is eligible for a penalty as is any wfa or stakes winner at 2300m or longer after the publication of the weights. There is an interesting insight on the BHA Handicappers Blog this week on who their staying handicapper believes may have been let in lightly in the Cup from GB this year....

Agree Me2. the mares are very short at teh moment for the race. They are however trained by the master. J B ****S. so you cannot count them out yet.
Cumani almost certain to bring 2 horses.

why has a trainers surname come up as starts
its Bart C u m m ings

First official Order of Entry for the three features here:-

http://www.racingvictoria.net.au/p_Feature_Races_.aspx


The one for the Melbourne Cup is below.  Position in the Order Of Entry is on the left.  If there is no number there, then the horse hasn't passed the qualifying clause yet.

Number on the right is prizemoney since 1st Aug 2008.  Eastern Aria will have gone up a place or two after today's victory.



1        Alandi    781165       
                   
        So You Think    2376850        Not qualified
2        Cavalryman    2110215       
                   
3        Shocking    4143525       
4        Rite Of Passage    365974       
                   
5        Shoot Out    1571950       
                   
        Metal Bender    1507350        Not qualified
6        Campanologist    758685       
                   
7        Zipping    1874000       
8        Monaco Consul    1278355       
9        Rebel Raider    1247290       
10        Profound Beauty    614008       
                   
11        Mr Medici    2348423       
12        Faint Perfume    1436290       
13        Illustrious Blue    336994       
14        Sans Frontieres    240028       
                   
15        Tokai Trick    1468108       
16        Dariana    445165       
17        Zabrasive    441050       
18        Once Were Wild    312150       
19        Tactic    168078       
                   
20        Zavite    1677766       
21        Master O'Reilly    973250       
22        Harris Tweed    724919       
23        C'Est La Guerre    694250       
        Triple Honour    637950        Not qualified
24        Buccellati    561361       
25        Manighar    502343       
26        Jessicabeel    464900       
27        Americain    424398       
28        Descarado    331183       
29        Doctor Fremantle    280283       
                   
30        Bauer    971324       
31        Vigor    877675       
32        Black Mamba    796454       
33        Red Ruler    681982       
34        Mourayan    485802       
35        Alcopop    384055       
36        Speed Gifted    366108       
        Small Minds    305045        Not qualified
37        Holberg    190468       
                   
38        Extra Zero    597250       
39        Drunken Sailor    503660       
40        No Wine No Song    243750       
                   
41        Capecover    757596       
42        Chartreux    469442       
        Trusting    371700        Not qualified
43        Akmal    362686       
44        Keep The Peace    345261       
45        Valdemoro    341888       
46        Miss Keepsake    327656       
        Linton    210400        Not qualified
                   
47        Moatize    501330       
48        Lords Ransom    441400       
49        Eastern Aria    396004       
50        Hissing Sid    341080       
                   
51        Newport    810900       
        Doubtful Jack    483665        Not qualified
52        Once More Dubai    275581       
        Fanjura    264134        Not qualified
        Herculian Prince    212186        Not qualified
53        Above Average    171062       
                   
54        Largo Lad    509488       
55        Run For Naara    256380       
56        Sterling Prince    247794       
        Moudre    188450        Not qualified
        Pompeyano    175596        Not qualified
        Gorky Park    700        Not qualified
        Empires Choice    0        Not qualified
                   
57        Persian Star    321846       
58        Darley Sun    318634       
59        Precedence    298970       
        The Hombre    156224        Not qualified
        Count Encosta    143150        Not qualified
60        Laristan    130522       
61        Lady Eclair    103124       
        Libel Law    97799        Not qualified
                   
        Snow Alert    399200        Not qualified
62        Scouting Wide    339080       
        Apprehend    297542        Not qualified
63        Berlioz    288425       
        Right Fong    249695        Not qualified
64        Booming    237651       
65        Phaze Action    236468       
        Sainthood    223080        Not qualified
        Avienus    204438        Not qualified
        Ghostmilk    197656        Not qualified
66        Get Up Jude    174050       
67        Ajhar    163840       
        Emblem Of Liberty    160241        Not qualified
68        Nothin' Leica Cat    153870       
        Miles Above    145729        Not qualified
        Our Cannavaro    145688        Not qualified
69        Exceptionally    145457       
70        Becqu Adoree    138252       
        Montahlia    131101        Not qualified
71        Sopranist    126090       
        Salinas    121235        Not qualified
72        Basaltico    119663       
        Montjeu Madame    118025        Not qualified
        Golden Charmer    115785        Not qualified
73        Warringah    103804       
        Niptious    101328        Not qualified
        Martial Law    98429        Not qualified
74        Mr Charlie    96826       
        Muir (Johann Zoffany)    96005        Not qualified
        Stanstill    89497        Not qualified
        Token Of Honour    87626        Not qualified
        Star Ripper    86910        Not qualified
        Macedonian    81001        Not qualified
        Saint Encosta    78675        Not qualified
75        Gallant Lady    78400       
        Naadji    75738        Not qualified
76        Rundle    74900       
        Landlord    72900        Not qualified
        Triumphant Choice    72225        Not qualified
        Well Rounded    69270        Not qualified
        Jeuneys End    67095        Not qualified
        Zantelagh    66875        Not qualified
        Imposing    59715        Not qualified
        Ocean Dream    58675        Not qualified
        Joe Blow    58530        Not qualified
        Landlocked    56320        Not qualified
        Miss Alia    51800        Not qualified
        Olympic Win    51350        Not qualified
        My Bentley    51008        Not qualified
77        Sea Galleon    49540       
        Majestic Concorde    48186        Not qualified
        Hastein    44420        Not qualified
        Maluckyday    44186        Not qualified
        Sherpa Tenzing    44155        Not qualified
        Happy Spirit    43683        Not qualified
78        Fairfield Flame    39892       
        Brightnight    39850        Not qualified
79        Akzar    37374       
        Gothic Crown    33430        Not qualified
        Billson    30242        Not qualified
        Smokin' Gun    29151        Not qualified
        Home On A Wing    26360        Not qualified
        Crocodile Canyon    24766        Not qualified
        Cedarberg    24267        Not qualified
        Our Aristocrat    22900        Not qualified
        King Of Mountains    21885        Not qualified
        Anudjawun    17825        Not qualified
        Cats Fun    16250        Not qualified
        Ballygoran    15887        Not qualified
        Nazabeel    15887        Not qualified
        Lethal Arrow    13725        Not qualified
        Zabdued    12880        Not qualified
        Irel    12441        Not qualified
        Wow    3841        Not qualified

I was thinking that following my mention of Gai that I ought to post this article:-


Gai Waterhouse tells how Tulloch Lodge almost went broke

    * Ray Thomas
    * From: The Daily Telegraph
    * September 10, 2010 12:00AM

THE knives were out. She had lost her Sydney trainers premiership title, the winners had dried up and the business was under financial pressure.

This was to be a seminal moment for Gai Waterhouse. Success had followed her everywhere and criticism was largely foreign to a trainer more used to widespread acclaim.

But instead of ignoring her detractors, Waterhouse took a more pragmatic view of the situation.

"The criticism didn't upset me because it was true - we weren't getting the results," Waterhouse said in a remarkable admission.

"So, it was pretty simple, I had to train more winners. To do that, I knew I had to change things around because if I didn't we would have gone broke."

Waterhouse might have been a little melodramatic - she used to tread the boards as a television and stage actress after all - but her point was well made and revealing.

Using the criticism as motivation, Waterhouse has "gone back to basics" and the famous production line of winners out of Tulloch Lodge has roared back to life in recent weeks.

She led in a hat-trick of winners at Royal Randwick last Saturday including the Chelmsford Stakes and Furious Stakes and has another powerful team of runners at Rosehill Gardens tomorrow.

Her all-star team is led by glamour mare More Joyous in the Group Two $200,000 Theo Marks Stakes, Melbourne Cup hopefuls Herculian Prince (Group Three $125,000 Kingston Town Stakes) and Descarado (Theo Marks), Montana Flyer (Group Three $125,000 Research Stakes) and unbeaten Halekulani (Listed $120,000 Heritage Stakes).

But really there wasn't much wrong to start with. Racing's first lady still had a 2009/10 season most trainers would love to have - leading in 137 wins in total, 73 in Sydney and five at Group One Level. But she endured a quiet winter with only a handful of runners and winners, sparking the criticism.

Waterhouse's comeback probably began to materialise the day she won an extraordinary 17 heats at a Randwick barrier trial session early in August. The trainer likes to test her horses in trials but this was something else again. However, the reality is she had been plotting the resurgence for some weeks, according to her husband, leading bookmaker Rob Waterhouse.

"Gai is an extraordinary person, she's always so positive, but probably her biggest problem is she is too nice and can't say no to anyone," he revealed.

"She always gives 100 per cent in everything she does but now she is giving more of her herself to training her horses. In Gai's business, as a horse trainer you really need to be right on top of things or it just doesn't work.

"She's a great trainer and it was just a matter of getting her priorities right again."

The couple were holidaying overseas in June when the trainer determined how she would turn the stable's fortunes around.

"I remember saying to Rob that when we returned home I was going to roll up my sleeves, get back to the stables and spend more time with the horses, study them, see for myself what they needed," she continued. "The only way to do that is to put the hours in."

It is difficult to imagine any trainer working harder than Waterhouse. She rises at 3am most mornings and it is nothing for her to work up to 18 hours a day. She is a driven woman but retains an infectious "joie de vivre" about her work and life.

Waterhouse has plenty to be cheerful about as she has developed arguably one of the strongest spring carnival teams of her career.

The trainer is hoping either More Joyous or warhorse Theseo can provide her an elusive Cox Plate next month.

More Joyous, aiming for her sixth stakes win in succession tomorrow, was awesome winning the Sheraco Stakes first-up two weeks ago.

Despite carrying 59kg, she produced some amazing sectional times in sweeping to an easy win - recording 33.09s for her final 600m, 21.71s for 400m and 11.11s over the last 200m.

"She is one of the most naturally talented horses I've ever had," Waterhouse said of More Joyous. "She is so much bigger and stronger now and I'm sure she will cope with more racing."

Waterhouse said More Joyous' initial aim was the $500,000 Epsom Handicap (1600m) at Royal Randwick on October 2 in preparation for the $3 million Cox Plate (2040m) at Moonee Valley on October 23.

"I think she might need another run before the Epsom - either the Shannon Stakes or the George Main Stakes," the trainer added. "I'll just see how she goes [tomorrow]."

More Joyous is raced by John Singleton who Waterhouse reserved particular praise.

"Everyone has 'Singo' down as a lucky owner," Waterhouse said. "But he's not lucky, he's just very good at breeding top-class racehorses.

"I don't think 'Singo' gets the credit he deserves. He has got the best boutique band of broodmares in the country that goes right back to a wonderful mare my father trained, Denise's Joy.

"He puts his mares to the best stallions like More Than Ready and the results are phenomenal. More Than Ready is a super sire and 'Singo' is on to another winner with his new stallion Big Brown."

Not only has Waterhouse changed her training routine, she is also concentrating more on developing quality stayers in a bid to finally win a Melbourne Cup.

When she first took out a trainer's licence, Waterhouse cut her teeth preparing stayers and had Melbourne Cup second placings with Te Akau Nick (1993) and Nothin' Leica Dane (1995).

But Waterhouse hasn't had a Melbourne Cup runner since Mr Celebrity ran unplaced five years ago and is desperate to be back on Australian racing's big stage.

"I so dearly want to win the Melbourne Cup," she said.

"I haven't had a runner for a few years and I told Rob I was sick of not having a good stayer in the stable.

"He then went out and found some very good, tried New Zealand stayers in Herculian Prince and Descarado.

"He's a genius at finding these good stayers early in their careers and it's a method we used with a lot of success in the past. We found stayers like Te Akau Nick, Hula Flight, Electronic and Coco Cobanna this way."

Waterhouse said about a decade ago she decided to concentrate more on training sprinter-milers and this left the stable cupboard bare of quality stayers for a few years.

"My clients wanted the more precocious types so we were more actively trying to find Golden Slipper horses," Waterhouse said.

"For a while there I went away from the stayers a bit but I love training these distance horses. It's very satisfying to watch a quality stayer emerge."

Waterhouse believes she has three legitimate Cups contenders this spring in Herculian Prince, Descarado and AJC Australian Oaks winner Once Were Wild.

"I still have to qualify Herculian Prince for the Cups but he is doing everything right," she continued.

"His run in the Tramway [third to Neeson] last week was outstanding but just wait until he gets to 2000m. He's crying out for this distance. He's heading towards The Metropolitan and then he'll go to Melbourne.

"Descarado is already qualified for the Cups because of his second in the [AJC Australian] Derby to John Wallace's very good horse [Shoot Out]. I'll send him to Melbourne after [tomorrow's] race.

"I can't tell you how excited I am with Once Were Wild. This mare, who is another bred and owned by 'Singo', is the ideal Caulfield Cup horse.

"She's in for a big spring - I've never been so confident about a horse going into the feature races as I am with her."

Despite losing her premiership title to Peter Snowden, Waterhouse revealed it isn't high on her priorities to regain the title this season.

"The only goal I've set for myself is to improve my strike-rate and try to win as many Group One races as I can," Waterhouse said.

The final word goes to Rob Waterhouse who found an ideal way to encapsulate his wife's training career.

"They once said Gai only trained stayers and couldn't train two-year-olds but she proved them wrong," he said.

"Then they said Gai couldn't train fillies, then it was stallions and she proved them wrong again.

"The only thing left for her to prove now is whether she can train hurdlers and steeplechasers. I'm sure she can but she will probably never get the chance."


A bit of a confession, that she wasn't spending enough time with the horses!

Big Moves on Booming, Akmal, Muir,
Interesting to see how they shape up .
long way to Go at this point in time.

So You Think was very impressive last night beat shocking who could only finish 4th with minimum ease...Also seen that Camponologist is being  prepared for a tilt at the Melbourne Cup..Goldolphin always has 1 horse that runs a nice race i cant see this horse being it though..

it was 1m1f has little bearing on the Melbourne Cup besides the fact Shocking was so impressive again over a short distance

So You Think won 2nd up 1800m.
Master trainer.
Won with ease. could be something very special.

agreed they should be aiming for breeders cup classic with this, certainly not melbourne cup

I think some people are being blinded by how brilliant So You Think is at 7-10f, and just assuming that the horse won't get 2 miles.

He is by High Chapparal, who won the Derby and Irish Derby, and was 3rd in two Arcs.

Kudos to whoever has heard of the Damsire, Tights.   Is by Nijinsky, so there is more stamina there.

In the bottom quadrant is the Derby winner Pinza.


If he stays fit, and doesn't go over the top, I think the big question isn't whether he will stay, but will he settle.  Remember, in his barnstorming win in the Cox Plate, after the initial hurry up to get a good position it was the horse's decision to stroll on, not the jockey's.  The jockey just went along with it.

WHAT are the IRISH doing?
Rite of Passage and Profound Beauty.  Trainer does it every year, never gives intentions clearly

yep Weld does that quite often. Very coy about his targets for horses, very coy indeed. Borderline infuritating .. what's the big secret ?!

Rite Of Passage ruled out of Melbourne Cup...Weld will make a decision on the participation of stablemate Profound Beauty in two weeks.

.

Me2
08 Sep 10 21:06 
One thing I'd like to comment on are the fillies and mares.  I know they have put up impressive performances, but I'm surprised by how short they are in the market, and it has been consistent.  26 Dariana, 25 Faint Perfume, 32 Jessicabeel.  It was the same thing last year with Daffodil.  I wonder whether some people are looking for the next Makybe Diva, and that is influencing the prices?

Well, got that bit right at least.  All three got withdrawn on Saturday.