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Cream Of The Crop
13 Aug 10 17:53
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Date Joined: 17 Jun 09
| Topic/replies: 407 | Blogger: Cream Of The Crop's blog
Very nice debut! I am sure Henry Cecil will keep it low key for now, but he looks a very nice prospect for both this year and next - in particular next.

Also a very promising run from Nathaniel, yet another smart product of Magnificient Style!

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By:
JustinDaffodil
When: 13 Aug 10 22:36
Looks a bull of a horse who will get a mile 1/2 next year.

That maiden will produce a ton of winners imo.
By:
ben10
When: 13 Aug 10 22:42
I posted on the unraced thread but will add it on here, Genius Beat ran a cracking race, would definitely look out for him next time and beyond, have no idea how he got third tbh.
Winner obviously useful sort and agree a steady approach is needed and he'll do alright. Gosden's clearly knew it's job, knuckled down well but was no match for the winner, he also relished the ground imo. Was the least impressive of the 3 for the future imo, that's not to say he won't win his races in due course.
By:
top3 makin ahern and de souza
When: 14 Aug 10 05:33
the winner looked like a 3 year old
surely a maiden to keep on the right side of
By:
sintonian
When: 14 Aug 10 08:44
Jockey was very kind to him.
By:
the lay preacher
When: 15 Aug 10 10:23
will be a lot better on faster ground imo . was very impressed by first 2.
By:
RUSSJR
When: 16 Aug 10 12:37
First 2 very nice , think the winner could be something special!
By:
AL BUNDY
When: 16 Aug 10 20:14
I'd imagine that he'd have to be decent given he's named after Bobby Frankel who died last year and trained for the Prince in America.
By:
sintonian
When: 23 Aug 10 10:43
from Queally's blog.

Before we move on to Saturday's rides, I just want to quickly give Frankel a mention who I rode to victory on his debut at Newmarket last Friday night. I was very taken with his performance. He was a little keen and green to begin with but was soon travelling well and he felt pretty good. That said, he looked even more impressive when I watched the replay back. He galloped through the rain-softened ground very easily and he will be even better on sounder ground. I hate hyping horses but he hasn't put a foot wrong so far and he'll probably go for a conditions race next. I know the Royal Lodge has been mentioned but let's not rush these things and see how he gets on in his next race first.
By:
EastLower Gooner
When: 23 Aug 10 13:29
fine tribute
By:
d.d.
When: 23 Aug 10 15:15
Frankel, looked 85% fit, and will be a group 1 horse next year.
By:
JustinDaffodil
When: 28 Aug 10 00:08
BEAST

RP trophy winner.
By:
eric_morris
When: 28 Aug 10 07:37
You forced me in on him was going to wait a little longer. Been thinking since his run he has Racing Post Trophy written all over him and he has shown he acts well on the likely ground at Doncaster. All going to plan that will make him much shorter than 25s HRAC likes the race for a Derby build up. Really strong pacey middle distance type and ideally suited to the race.
By:
eric_morris
When: 28 Aug 10 08:08
He could go Royal Lodge then Juvenile as a 2yo as an alternative.
By:
john92
When: 03 Sep 10 13:48
his next planned outing is a conditions race at doncaster a week today.
By:
eric_morris
When: 03 Sep 10 17:05
Excellent, good prep for the Racing Post Trophy. Not sure he looks a Lingfield Derby Trial type hoping he will be Dante bound after his 2yo campaign.
By:
Cream Of The Crop
When: 10 Sep 10 08:10
It seems as though Cecil may be testing the waters for the 2000 Guineas next year with this drop to 7f for Frankel today at Doncaster, and there has been some money for him ante-post for that race (partly because of the seriously impressive work since his debut win). It shouldn't be too much of a problem for him, this step back to seven, being the son of a 5-6f winner, though Farhh looked very tidy himself on debut and has won at the distance. Still, it would be a massive disappointment if Frankel couldn't make it 2-2 today, and I really hope he is every bit as good as that debut win suggested.
By:
PFtrader
When: 10 Sep 10 09:05
COTC

Nice post on the unraced 2yo thread re. Cecil's horses.

As for Frankel, I would be surprised if they are looking at the 2000 Guineas for the horse given he is by Galileo although perhaps that is reflective of his home work. 

Perhaps the drop down to 7f today is aimed at giving the horse more experience before he tackles the Royal Lodge in 2 weeks time ?

He does remain the only Cecil entry in the Dewhurst so that may also be on their mind in coming back in trip. The tactics today may be interesting, I wonder if they will try and make the running so it doesn't turn into a 2f sprint.
By:
Cream Of The Crop
When: 10 Sep 10 09:13
I am sure Dettori will make this a tactical affair, given he knows his horse has the speed for this 7f trip, and I can imagine him bouncing out and making the running at a steady tempo, quickening on around two furlongs out and trying to turn into a sprint, as you say.

The slight concern would be that Frankel needed to be pushed along to get into a challenging position on debut, and though he quickly came back on the bridle at the furlong marker and won with any amount in hand, I just wonder whether he would find 7f a sufficicent enough test if the above tactics were played out by Dettori on Farhh.

I would imagine Cecil will take him to the RP Trophy should he win this today, with the Royal Lodge perhaps coming a little too soon? Whatever, he looks a cracking 3yo prospect.
By:
Equimine.co.uk
When: 10 Sep 10 10:02
His dam Kind certainly injects speed into his pedigree, and it could be argued that Galileo is a "faster" sire than Sadlers Wells the sire of his half brother Bullet Train.
I think he is still the most likely winner today, but I don't think he should be 4/5.
Cream I would be interested on your thoughts of Frankel for next year, a point I alluded to on the "Unraced" thread. He certainly is a big, strong, bull of a horse. You could even think he was a three year old in some ways. With that in mind do you think he has the potential improvement that some, currently lesser developed, two year old rivals might have next year? Obviously his pedigree, on the sire line especially, screams out three year old.
By:
RUSSJR
When: 10 Sep 10 10:49
I think the dewhurst is the long term plan!
By:
Cream Of The Crop
When: 10 Sep 10 10:50
It is certainly an interesting point you make regarding his size/stature - he does have the appearance of a 3yo and there may not be a huge amount of physical scope to come throughout the winter months. However, as you say, his pedigree suggests he will come into his own at three, as have almost all of the family (dam included), and I think he will still be able to operate at the highest level, for all there may be a few improvers lurking next spring when they themselves have had time to mature and fill their frames.
By:
Dark Destroyer
When: 10 Sep 10 10:54
Does anyone know the number of Cecil runners in the 2,000 over the past 10 years or so? Maybe it is just Twice Over swerving the race which is clouding my judgement but right now Frankel does not appeal to me for Newmarket on that basis alone.
By:
Cream Of The Crop
When: 10 Sep 10 10:59
I am not too sure Cecil has had the ammunition to have any credible 2000 Guineas contenders in recent years, and Twice Over has proven them right not to run him in the race, in as much as he is clearly at his best over 10f. Jacqueline Quest showed Cecil can still ready them for a Guineas, though granted she is a filly and that Cecil has the 'magic' touch when it comes to those, and the race was ruined by the ground and the consequential draw bias.

I still think, given the way in which he shaped at HQ on debut, that Frankel makes more appeal as a Derby horse, but Cecil and Juddmonte clearly think the world of him (the name says it all) and obviously want to see if he could be as good at a shorter distance, thus giving them a clue as to how he would cope with the relative speed demands of a Guineas.
By:
mythical prince
When: 10 Sep 10 15:41
WOW. i know that was nothing more than an excercise gallop after the withdrawal of the godolphin horse but this is the best two year i've seen for quite a while. after all if a horse went like that on the gallops we'd all be rushing down the bookies to back it! races with so much enthusiam, travels oh so well, and seems to have unbelievable gears.

of course cecil will take the softly softly approach with him he's done the same thing for 30 odd years he's hardly going to change it now, but if he did decide to go the dewhurst/ guineas route instead of the more obvious racing post/ derby route i know which horse i'd be backing.

it seems just as likely of course that he won't run him again this year.
By:
Dark Destroyer
When: 10 Sep 10 15:43
I agree. A definite WOW.
By:
Temlett
When: 10 Sep 10 15:47
Does Cecil ever bring his best horse to the Dewhurst?

I cannot recall him doing it since the middle 80s.

Royal Lodge or Racing Post Trophy is usually the route?
By:
mythical prince
When: 10 Sep 10 15:53
he ran enrique in 1998 in the dewhurst that started joint fav. i think he would probably have gone the same route with wingwalker a few years back as well but sadly that horse broke down.
By:
PFtrader
When: 10 Sep 10 15:56
I have to agree the manner of the win was visually very impressive, looks a bull of a horse with a nice cruising speed and gears.

Look forward to seeing him out again, HRAC did mention Royal Lodge on ATR after the race and you could tell by the way he spoke about him that he is considered a decent tool.
By:
sintonian
When: 10 Sep 10 16:00
sorry folkes but he was racing against a debutant. It was a non-event.
By:
sintonian
When: 10 Sep 10 16:02
Dont get me wrong I like this horse too. But the NR makes it a non-event ..
By:
mythical prince
When: 10 Sep 10 16:04
incidentally, i know white moonstone was running over a furlong further and they went no pace in the frankel race, but he ran the final two furlongs about a second and half quicker than the filly, (although it must also be admitted that she was eased down before the line)
By:
Temlett
When: 10 Sep 10 16:15
I know he ran Enrique in it. He never struck me as having star quality however and I am pretty sure that Tacing Post was over the round course and Enrique would have been a doubtful stayer at the time.

Wingwalker was no star and just a decent headstrong 2yo.

I guess a lot of Cecil's good 2yo's in the 80s and early 90s were middle distance types on pedigree and that would explain it. He may well however have run others in it like Mark of Esteem but they were taken off him before a decision could be made.
By:
mythical prince
When: 10 Sep 10 16:22
personally im not mad keen on the derby as a race, certainly not as an ante post medium, so it would be great if he could aim him at the guineas. his strong galloping style kind of reminds me of nashwan and new approach amongst others, and you'd have to think of course that over a mile he'd been vulnerable to horses bred for just a mile, but you often need horses that stay further than a mile for a guineas winner.

certainly nothing has really stood out in the two year old colt division so far this year, so in an ordinary renewal of a guineas i'd give him every chance, even if his real future lies over further.
By:
The Headmaster
When: 10 Sep 10 16:47
I must be losing my mind but I'm in - rarely heard Cecil talk like that after a race.

This is a very good horse.
By:
Bellamy Road
When: 10 Sep 10 16:50
looks a solid time, bookies may be underestimating the performance because the 2nd fav came out. 20/1 for the derby isn't bad imo
By:
The Headmaster
When: 10 Sep 10 16:52
Agree Bellamy, although I'm worried the fav for the Derby (in early September) apppears to offer a bit of value.  Has this ever happened before???
By:
eric_morris
When: 10 Sep 10 17:10
He oozes class and is an excellent Derby prospect. HRAC should go Racing Post Trophy now as the horse acts on the likely ground there and wont jar himself up. A gradual build up for the Derby now this could be the one to put HRAC back on the map with colts. On at 25s but may go in again at 20s. Never felt this way about St Nick as a 2yo.
By:
jamesp
When: 10 Sep 10 17:13
He looks much more like a Derby horse than a Guineas one, but his next race will tell us a lot more.  The dam Kind was quite headstrong and only won over 5-7f but she is from a stamina-laden family: she's a half-sister to Powerscourt (top class 10-12f winner), Brimming (13-14f winner) and Westlake (12f winner).  Kind's dam Rainbow Lake (by Rainbow Quest) won the Lancashire Oaks and was a half-sister to Vertex (12f winner) and to a winning hurdler.  Frankel is also a half-brother to Bullet Train, winner of the Lingfield Derby Trial.  So he's bred to be a smart middle distance performer and I doubt whether he will be aimed at the Guineas.  He showed a lot of speed today, though, so it will be fascinating to see how he gets on next time in pattern company.  As far as the form is concerned, I think it's very unlikely that Diamond Geezah ran anywhere near his official rating of 90, so the form is pretty meaningless.
By:
Celtic Son
When: 10 Sep 10 17:59
Ridiculous, he looks like a Guineas horse and not a Derby winner. Far too much pace and wears a cross noseband, which suggests he is a horse that takes a good grip. It would be amazing if they didn't got to the Dewhurst next.

How he looks a likely Derby winner I'll never know. They have Picture Editor, who is bred to stay, for that race.
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