Sandown, as there was only the KG and the falsely run Yashrid race on the round course, I'm interested as to how you have concluded that the round course was riding quicker?

Have to agree with your first 2.35 post. However, as we don't appear to have changed to any material degree the record of top rated (any ratings) horses winning races over the past 50 odd years, it's clear that there is much more left to consider than ratings so I don't really like to get hung up on them.But it is interesting, nevertheless, to debate.

What a horse is likely to do is what I consider to be more important and that's where sectional times help me.For example, the view that Cape Blanco was running on fumes at the end and he will be interesting dropped back in trip especially as his condition was so good.

All this fades into the margins when turning to the subject of creating an odds line, however. I now find that after years of doing so I rely more on my intuitive feel for is a good price and what is a poor one given all the evidence, but I still keep my hand in occasionally.

Thought so. Enjoyed the read.

Sandown
Your standards must be vastly different to mine, as I have Yashrid running 10lbs slower than his best effort, with the other finishers running similarly below their best, due to the pace of the race. If I rated it as a strongly run race then Harbinger's figure would go through the roof. As you said before, we'll have to agree to differ, good luck.

Officially rated 135 whch seems sensible enough to me - they based this on Cape Blanco running to the same mark (119) as previously.

Sandown, you clearly do not believe Harbinger ran to a mark of 135 in the KG.

For my benefit, please could you explain how many additional lengths Harbinger would have been required to win by, in order to achieve a mark of 135, in your opinion?

Or otherwise, please could you explain how many additional seconds Harbinger needed to take off the already broken course record in order to achieve a mark of 135?

Thanks in advance.

CB chased pace tho, harbi sat off!

Harbinger had the perfect race. Sittig just off the pace which was steady to start with then increased with about a mile to go and then again 4 furlongs out. Capo Blanco and Workforce sat right on the pace early, the pacemaker drew them into the straight quickening and they appeared off the bridle because they were quickening as well, in fact acting like pace setters. Youmzain and Daryakana always come from off the pace which wasn't end to end so didn't suit their race styles.
Ignoring Harbinger the 10f pace of the race suited CB much better than Youm and Dary. Workforce should have been closer to CB but worked too hard with the irregular pace. That is also why the pacemaker never tailed off
Harbinger was awesome anyway you look at it.

I think Harbinger deserves a special award for making so many forumites stick their fingers in their ears while chanting "La La La La La I cant hear you".

The pacemaking role interests me.
What did Stoute plan to happen?
Using just one pacemaker who is quick but doesn't stay surely mean't the pace would be either steady early, if the setter wanted to take the field into the home straight, or fall apart if the setter went off like a bullet, went clear and then died 5 furlongs out.
What did he plan for Workforce?
What he ended up with was a steady early pace with Workforce over racing and therefore killing his chance.
Did he think Workforce would stay the trip if the pace was a grinder? He knew Harbinger would. Or did he think a mile and a quarter pace would suit Workforce as opposed to Harbinger if he settled early?

ah your a good man empty (sorry for sayin 'ffs')