Arc outsider in Grand Prix De Paris Wednesday ?

Fabre runs Goldwaki too for the Wertheimer brothers

Sorry Princesse you are right, though he is still an interesting runner.

does anyone know the entries for this? cheers.

He was a late supplementary entry Nighthawk so that's probably why you hadn't seen him.

Entries:
Ice Blue
Behkabad
Shimraan
At First Sight
Fencing Master
Dara Tango
Planteur
Vivre Libre
Ivory Land
Lawspeaker
Allesson
Jan Vermeer
Grande Saggio

Missed the thing out.

Supplemented - Goldwaki

Thanks for letting me know that, I did wonder why I had missed him, I had the glasses on !

Planteur's trainer very confident about his chances. He also said he would have needed the run last time at Chantilly.

Billys have priced this up and made Jan Vermeer 9/4 fav with Planteur on 3s and Bekhabad at 7/2.

I've backed Planteur for the Arc so I'm hoping his trainer is right and he puts on a show. However, I'm not convinced he left him short for the French Derby.

Sorry, 7/4 Jan Veermeer. That seems very short [:o]

Ridiculously short. 

I wouldn't have Goldwaki in fifth here and even if I did he wouldn't be 8/1.  Looks a big price e/w.

Allesson possibly shouldn't be 50 either?

8/1 looks a steal now....

Quite like Jan Vermeers chances in the soft ground. I don't think the French horses are up to a great deal this year.

Sorry-French horses not up to a great deal this year?I suppose it was Chinese horses that won our Guineas?

You're definitely watching a different European Flat season to me, Graeme, although I agree JV has a chance now and the latest PMU odds look quite tempting....

Graeme83   
Quite like Jan Vermeers chances in the soft ground. I don't think the French horses are up to a great deal this year. 

Thats quite possibly one of the most uninformed posts i have seen in a while.

Obviously my comment pertains to horses over 12f, as Makfi won't be meeting Jan Vermeer anytime soon.

1. Jan Vermeer
2. Planteur

Cant have JV - Goldwaki for me

planteur odds-on?

am i missing something?

seems a nuts price...

Headmaster and BraveInca, what do you see in these French horses that i don't ?

OK, does anyone else think the it's clueless to suggest the French horses ain't up to much this year ?

Can't say I agree with you Graeme, what are you basing it on?

theres still one or two about.

sarafina and silver pond for instance.

early days still but they are looking up against it.

I'm basing it on classic fields being left for dead by horses which to me do not look top class. In the French guineas Lope De vega and Turpin put the field to sleep, with third place being Shamalgan and fourth place being Godolphins Buzzword. In the French Derby Lope De Vega rattled the field with ease. He was then hammered by Dick Turpin just under 8f, although i accept something was amiss, although Dick Turpin did put 4 lengths between himself and Siyouni who has also dissapointed. Special Duty(2 derby wins without getting her head over the line first) was crushed by Music Show, although i'm sure we will be told something was wrong. Yesterday paris race will hopefully stack up to good form, but it remains to be seen.

The best 3 year old colts are most certainly English - Canford Cliffs, Dick Turpin and Workforce. Not so clear with the fillies - Sarafina could be a star but we don't really know yet.

Fair enough, going against the crowd is a good way of making money and an interesting line you have there. There's a number of inconclusive runs which can easily be argued either way. Personally I think it's the Irish who haven't been up to much.

Ben, I agree with you. The front two last night would have won the Irish Derby if they would have turned up, in my opinion.

In fact I think they are the 2nd and 3rd best mile and a half 3 year colts we have seen this season after Workforce.

More than one country can not be up to much. I don't think the Irish horses are up to much either. Some would argue that there isn't a great deal based in Britain either, although i think Workforce will prove to be useful.

Come on Graeme, he's already proved that

Only beat the Irish ;)

By my reckoning, during this European Flat Turf season, there have been 20 Pattern races for 3-y-os only between 7f - 12f that have featured at least one horse based in France against at least one horse based in GB or Ire. Of those 20 races, the French have won 16 of them.

The four times they missed the target:
Dick Turpin's Jean Prat, Emerald Commander's Daphnis and the Royal Ascot victories of Canford Cliffs and Lillie Langtry.

Of course, they haven't had a runner in Ireland and most of those 16 wins have come on home soil against one or two raiders.  However, they had to repel strong raids for their Classics and famously did the double at Newmarket.

They are in front imo.

.....by the way I am not saying Workforce isn't the best 12f 3-y-o atm or Canford Cliffs isn't the best miler (although we await the return of Makfi with interest). As a group, however, I believe the French herd is on top and, as Ben says, the Irish have a lot of work to do.

Ah for the hype of St Nicholas Abbey...

I think the hype around St Nicholas Abbey was based around hope and anticipation as much as anything else. It was also enhanced by a leading horse racing come gambling magazine(Racing Post) and the trainer himself who would talk up Robert Mugabi if he thought he could flog him a horse. When there's a good 2y/o, people hope it's progresses on to the same platform as a 3y/o for the new season. I can understand hype sometimes, even when there's no concerete evidence.

SNA was just the latest in a long line of top 2 year olds who flopped at 3. Remember Arazi who was going to be the greatest horse ever, Machiavellian who was going to win the Guineas on the bridle, Storm Bird, Celtic Swing the list goes on...

What amazes more is the army of devotees who remain convinced that Midas Touch/Cape Blanco/Jan Vermeer (close your eyes and take your pick) are poised to dominate the middle distances in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Celtic Swing was 2nd in a Guineas and won the French Derby, he was hardly a flop.

Conceded it is unfair to group Celtic Swing with those others.

Hype is good fun though and everyone likes to play trainer, picking and choosing the races they could win with the next superstar of racing.

Where is this army of devotees A_T?

None of the 3 mentioned even went off fav for the Irish Derby and Jan Vermeer went off a big price in France on Wednesday.

It's tiresome that practically every thread on here has to include a dig at Ballydoyle/Coolmore.
What is the point?

JV was favourite on most antepost books. Almost inexplicable...